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stuie I'll make this really clear. I will respond to you once and once only. I've seen some people on this site treat you really poorly. I feel you're often misunderstood and have some quality footballing views to offer. I've often been tempted to jump to your defence (not that you'd claim you need it) but find that difficult to do when I then see you adopt such a confrontational, point scoring stance so regularly, rather than simply debating the topic at hand. Whether you agree or not, you involve yourself in regular spats on this site. You've clearly become the common denominator and need to address why this is. I'm guessing many like me have been skirting past the in-fighting on this forum in search of the hidden gold and have grown increasingly frustrated in the process. Today, I reached my limit. I'm asking you, as plainly as I can to stop. Talk footy. It's easy, particularly when you finally have a team to watch that doesn't drive you to want to throw a brick through your tv screen every week.

Please don't be Ess game again, please don't be Ess game again, please don't be Ess game again....

In other breaking news, Justin Beibers cousin has throat polyps and can no longer sing.

Petracca doesn't have a mum, he was created in a lab.

As much as I loathe him immensely, David King brought up an interesting scatter plot graph that Champion Data use to determine how close to premiership standard teams are. It's based on scoring 100 points a game and conceding around 86. This was from Round 21 last year I think, and as you can see by the legend 14 of last 15 premiers have met these criteria. Last year we were not scoring enough, nor defending well enough. Now the updated graph for this year after 4 rounds has us much closer to somewhere near we need to be: Both our points for and points conceded totals have improved a lot, and we compare favourable to some good teams such as the Hawks (who have obviously underperformed by their standards so far this year). For the first time in a number of years, like a lot on here, I can genuinely see progress onfield on a more consistent basis, and now statisically that's backing up our reason for cautious optimism.

Couldn't care less if people have never rated his discussions over the last few years. He has kept it simple, general and boring... and thus he has kept the heat off the players and the club, something a new coach wouldn't have been able to do. That gets a big tick in my book.

It's hard enough watching Melbourne play without also having money on the line.

Paul Roos' leadership and people managements abilities have been a huge part of the progress we have made during his time as senior coach (dishwater to Moet compared to his recent predecessors). Game plans and strategies are irrelevant if you don't have the entire playing list, Footy Department and beyond working in harmony, in both the good times and the tough ones. We have made a quantum leap forward in the last couple of years, and I can't think of anyone who might have done a better job in the circumstances than Roosy.

Daisy is definitely in my top 3 MFC players. What she has done and is doing is ground breaking stuff and I'm so proud of the club and the action that they've taken to be at the forefront of women's footy.

And you reckon you tune him out!

Loves the attention, TGR.

His discussion with Goodwin.. Very insightful. Posts: 4,328 Location: Torquay New Higgs Boson said: ↑ Straight from the horse's mouth - or Simon Goodwin at least. Andy was attending a lunch with Goody this week that I was also supposed to attend - before work got in the goddamn way fuggit Click to expand... It was awesome, you missed out. Me and 2 others got to spend 15-20 mins with prior just shooting the breeze. It was like fast money on sale of the century... - Spencer is only a week away. But depth is a worry in the Ruck. King needs to put 20kg's on, they aim for 7 per year - Neeld physiologically damaged the players, particularly Watts. He needs to be constantly reassured, high 5's etc - Roo's going to Hawaii for 6 months and undecided after that. Most likely not coming back in a footy role - club went very hard after Brendan McCarthy. Goody rates him as the best in the country at what he does - Truck is arrogant, but in a good way. He thought he should have been playing since round 1. Goody said he's way to good for the VFL. He said he's like a panther out there. Said he plays like a mixture of Stringer up forward and Ebert through the middle. He'll play forward and kick goals this year. If he could choose only one of Hoges and Truck, he'd pick Hoges but only cause he hasn't seen Truck at AFL level yet. That said he did almost smirk and giggle when he said Hoges is very very good. - explained the Essendon game well. He said "all club have [censored] days at the office", especially inexperienced ones like ours. he said the difference between us and Geelong who were in the same position as us against the bombers last weekend was that their senior players know how to grit their teeth and wait, and more importantly trust that momentum will shift and when it does take you take your chances and bury the oppo. We hit the lead at the 10min mark of the last. He said he expected us to kick 2-3 more and kill the game, we got over excited and blew it, the cats didn't. That's were the 80 games comes into it - they internally really rate Wagner and Hunt. He kept saying we found one on the weekend when referring to Hunt - Had some interesting things to say on his time at Essendon and more so how removed Hirdy is now. But that's not relevant. Ask what you like, we talked about pretty much everything.

Go back and have a look at our list when Roos was hired and tell me Beveridge or even Clarkson could have done anything positive with it other than what Ross did, turn it over. I don't go with the McCartney/Beveridge line either but they did have a list that could be worked by an astute coach. As usual many in the media looked around the edges and didn't have a decent understanding of the players and their upside. Anyone who thinks Roos as the messiah could have come in and turned things around like Beveridge has as far as win/loss and implementing a winning game plan from day one just doesn't understand footy...

The only way Duh-Wayne would be put in his place is with a dirty big punch in the mouth. PS - Mods, I am not condoning violence, but rather, trying to be pragmatic.

It's Trac time baby. Don't name him and not play him. That's just cruel to all involved. Tigers rushing back Deledio and Maric. Desperate times.

Face plant on your keyboard?

If anything it would be even harder for me to watch, I'd feel embarrassed for Roos. He's always a professional and Newman will be doing his best to bring down the club and insult him. The audience will laugh and find it funny because they're idiots. Pauline Roos?

Genetics? Don't forget the differences between family members. I just need to look at my beloved and her sister. Thank goodness for the differences otherwise I would have been committed many years ago just to escape.

Ok, thanks for the report update jimcor and deespencer. The remainder is not necessary guys. At the end of the day let's just deal with VB out for around a month. The silver lining is someone gets a gig in replacing him, and because of our depth due to who is playing at Casey, itching to get a game as well as recent debutants performing. VB will be missed but it's definitely not the end of the world as we have capable replacements ATM. God speed in recovery VB, and hope he's not out for longer than a month. Thread closed.

Daisy is without doubt one of the greatest assets the club has. She is a class act. Seems the league is starting to clue onto that as well.

Dwayne is a bully. He punches down and sucks up. Shocking piece of work.

That depends entirely on the cattle you have to work with.

Hey Everyone, Caro has written a great article about our very own Daisy Pearce. Daisy Pearces' Star Continues To Rise

Just purchased two memberships. Don't let me down on Sunday night or they'll be getting sent straight back, slightly melted (I wont really send them back, I don't have a mullet haircut).

you mean rob petracca's brother? great news

This could be the best game ever. Petracca debuting under lights V Richmond

Mahoney basically said that, if Garlett doesn't get through training on Friday, then there is a chance Petracca is called up as his replacement. Therefore if Garlett plays, Petracca doesn't.

BOTH GARLETT & PETRACCA WILL PLAY!!

Mahoney implied that if Garlett doesn't get up for Sunday then Petracca will probably play. Win/Win!

On Sunday night, a Melbourne supporter put his bet slip up after. he Collingwood game. Viney for 30 disposals and watts for 3 goals or more. He put 500 on and collected a tidy 5.5k. Money for jam.

He's actually breathing in mate with pursed lips and a 4mm gap centrally. Also he nods his head when he listens. Also his muscles of mastication contract intermittently during listening. While you guys were waiting for Schwabby's whiteboard Wednesday, I was watching a Roos presser. If you are going to do forensics, give us the cake as well as the icing.

Jnr, whilst the odds and predictions paint a compelling picture, the fact is that the Bulldogs never once finished below us in any of their years down the bottom and won 7 games in 2014. They were expected to be hopeless because of the exits of Griffen, Cooney and Higgins but of that group, only Griffen was a key contributor for them and they already had a deep young midfield capable of stepping up to cover. We have only now probably got a similarly talented young midfield. I would be confident we could cover the loss of a Jones or Vince much better now - last week was an example of that. The Bulldogs were never anywhere near as bad as us, it was an expectation based on a flawed assumption - similar to the idea that Geelong would be rubbish without Ablett or the Hawks without Buddy.

I tried to find this earlier, but wasn't sure where to look. In essence I agree with Baggy Bob, although I also agree with some of rjay's points. Goodwin has reportedly told a couple of supporters that Roos takes matchday and he takes the rest of the week. As Bob knows, "the rest of the week" is far more significant than the 2 hours on game-day (although Stu might need some convincing). This is Goodwin's second year. He'd feel more comfortable asserting himself (credit to Roos too) and we've also brought over some Bulldog/Hawk's IP with Gavin Jennings joining the club. I put the new and improved game-plan squarely down to Goodwin and Jennings. I suspect it has very little to do with Roos, although the defensive elements he's instilled are clearly important. One stat I love and reckon paints an accurate picture of the ladder and a team's premiership aspirations is its spread of goal-kickers. Hawthorn have had the most or second most in the last 3 years and won flags, while Melbourne have had the least or second least in the last 3 years and been in the lower regions or bottom 2. In fact, in the last 10 years the premier has come from a team with the top 2 spread of goal-kickers in every year except 2008, when Hawthorn unexpectedly pinched the flag. The only club to really buck the trend is the Paul Roos coached Sydney (flag) in 2005, which had the second worst spread in the competition. The team they beat (West Coast) had the best. An anomaly unlikely to be repeated. In 2014 Melbourne averaged 6.5 goal-kickers per round and in 2015 it crept up to 6.82. We've jumped to 9 in 2016, but, yes, it's only early days. Hawthorn averaged exactly 9 in their 2013 and 2014 premiership years. Hawthorn are an incredible team not just because they have some elite players, they also have the best system. Arguably, the best game-plan and system ever to do what they've done. Anyone that has no interest in game-plans or system in the present AFL has no understanding of the game whatsoever. Notwithstanding the cattle at Roos' disposal (and I agree it's relevant), I have no doubt he didn't have a handle on the modern game and elite ball movement.

TBH I did resolve myself to avoid that a little while ago but got sucked in again. Will give it a go again. It's really only 2-3 posters that get to me, might just block them for everyone's sake.

And for the first time I have some degree of confidence the light isn't an oncoming train!

I see, he can't move his ankles....

Beveridge especially had the work of Macca to build from. Macca had developed the side and got in the talent and was moulding them the right way. While Beveridge has done good things with the team he started from a much higher base than Roos. We simply didnt have the talent to do it and to go with that we had a history of bad development of the talent we had. I disagree we have gone from the bottom to10-13th as well. To say we were only the bottom is flattering, we were a good VFL side a few years back. It took time to even get back to the bottom.

You've forgotten what he looks like at his best.

My aunty is 94 years old and still goes to the G every day game (Nights to much for her now) I sell her my MCC guest card and off she goes with a group of friends for a lunch and a few wines before the game......She has been going to watch the dee's for the past 70 years, dragging my family and me along in my youth. I visit her 2 times a month in her retirement village for lunch and the conversation is always about the footy.

Just received a call from my father today. Dad is in his nineties and has been a longtime MFC member until he finally let it lapse this year because he is not steady enough on his feet to battle through the crowds from Richmond station. Last Sunday my brother picked him up in a cab and took him to the Dees vs Pies game and he had a ball. Imagine his surprise today when he received a MFC membership package in the mail recognising his many years of membership and telling him that a MFC staff member had paid his renewal on his behalf. Thank you Melbourne Football Club!

I'm a little surprised at all the calls for Matt Jones to be omitted. He may not be best 22 going forward but I think he is certainly best 22 at this point. Has shown improvement in his game this season and has actually been cleaner with the ball than better players such as Nat Jones, Tyson, Kent and others. He obviously isn't the most talented player on the list but he spreads better than anyone else in our midfield and we sorely lack that right now. I would be very surprised if he was dropped on form.

lol at mentions on OMac being elite after 80 games. Just cos he's related to TMac doesn't mean he'll be there. DOn't get me wrong, I'm fond of the kid, but there's nothing in his footy so far to suggest he'll be elite after 80. For mine it's the obvious ones, Hogan, Salem, Petracca, Brayshaw, Gawn, Oliver, Weideman... I see 7/8 so far. Viney is the 8th, is probably already there now, will be captain, and I think will confuse people, because nothing about him is elite. Not size, pace or disposal. The elite thing is his production. I don't see him getting worse as a player than what we've seen this year, until he declines in his old age. We'll see 8 years now of footy basically like this, or close to it more often than not. Sam Mitchell style. That's Elite to me. Jetta - Probably just off elite. Opposition clubs will respect him, but he doesn't scare anyone. Harmes - All I can say about him is ???. Sometimes he looks VFL. Sometimes he looks like Stevie J in red and blue. The times he vanishes are starting to evaporate, and he's now looking dangerous more and more often. Could potentially get to elite, but I feel like only in late twenties, and only for a few years. Kennedy - I don't agree with everyone on him. Don't get me wrong, love his work, will be awesome. But we're seeing his ceiling now. He's tiny and zippy, but rather more outside than the Oliver/Viney/Jones types... I think of him as a poor man's Prestia. He will excel more than anyone (outside of Watts) in the hard-ball winning demons. Zippy outside players will want to come to demons over the next 3-5 years, you watch. We will make them All Australians. VDB - Not elite. Very good. Not elite. I reckon he'll settle more as a leading forward who pressures, like Mayne. So his kicking will end up restricting him from the elite conversation. Love him, and will represent well for 150 games at least. Trengove - Who the hell knows. If he gets any sort of pace back, there's no reason he can't be. Has basically no faults in his game aside from the pace problem. I'm hoping he can become our Simon Black, in which case, Elite certainly... But I prefer to have no expectation with him. In all honesty I think as Vince and Jones age, they'll be hoping he can step in. Tyson - Disposal the only thing holding him back from Elite. Right on the cusp, but not there yet. He's on 54 games and is only 22. Will he improve? I'm thinking we're seeing near to his best already, and it's pretty damn good. But a top 40 player in the league? I'm thinking no. Still hugely important though. TMac - I couldn't decide on him. He's only 23 and is key position. Has already played his 80+ games. I think in the end of his career he'll be so wily, as he is already, and his disposal won't improve, but his decision making will. I would say that no, he won't be elite... but KP defenders rarely get the press. He'll be in the top handful of his position his whole career, but will never take the Rance/Gibson/Hurley? mantle. Gee it's fun being able to read about the list with high hopes again. I said it at the end of the year, this will be one of the most fondly remembered seasons of my life. When we all had zero expectations, but still won our fair share.

You have rocks in your head and don't watch the games of think Kent will be dropped.. Sorry to be so blunt.. Kent is a lock in the 22 as long as he is fit!

Unlike the mentally stable, sensible posters of Demonland.

Huttons smallagoods trademark 30933:

No tv and no vb make big red go something something

Good OP. Importantly, let's look at some key indicators that have previously been letting us down. In 2015 (and the years preceding) we defended too close to the opposition's goal and couldn't get the ball inside 50. And when we got it there we couldn't keep it there. This has changed in 2016. It's a small sample size (4 games), but our new game-plan is starting to work. We're pressing much harder and getting turnovers in much better positions. Average I50's 2015 44.5 (16th) ~ Average 2016 54.3 (8th) Centre clearances, which we've been hopeless at for years is now becoming a strength. This is due to Gawn, Viney, Jones and the emerging Oliver. General clearances are also improving, but not yet a strength (9th). Average centre clearances 2015 10.6 (16th) ~ Average 2016 14.8 (4th) In contested possessions we've gone from 12th in 2015 to 5th. Uncontested possessions are still a work in progress, which means we're still not spreading hard enough with quality outside runners, but we've improved from 17th to 12th. The only stat going backwards is tackles, but I put that down to getting in first to the ball more often. Right now I reckon we're either the 9th or 10th best side in it (along with Gold Coast). But we're trending in the right direction.

It took 3 years to build a list capable of implementing it.

If you get the don't argue - argue back..