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'Lisfranc' is an injury named after Napoleon's chief medical officer who saw a spate of midfoot dislocations from soldiers falling off their horses whilst the foot stayed in the stirrup...ouch. It isn't a bone. The navicular is a bone, effectively the keystone of the foot as a weightbearing structure. It is prone to avascular necrosis (death from lack of blood supply) following fracture (stress or otherwise), and is historically problematic as we have seen with Jack Trengove. If he's running at full speed, the signs are very good. The next biggest issue becomes accumulated load, that being 2 hours of game time. Added issues are landing onto the foot and jumping off it. Kicking with it will not be a problem, and weightbearing on it whilst kicking with the other is just an extension of running forces.

Dropped in from about 2:40 to 4. Missing: Hogan, Brayshaw, Tyson, Newton, Viney, Lumumba, JKH, Spencer, Garlett Laps: Jones, Vince, Trengove. Bernie at a steady pace, Nathan motoring. Trengove doing his own thing. Modifield program for parts of the session: ANB, King, Frost, Terlich, Petracca. Max King has a right wrist injury, was only marking with his left arm. Now the new boys. Oliver is a good size for a mid as we all know. In decent condition as well. He reminds me of Brayshaw last year, maybe a little heavier in the legs but otherwise he's a mixture of muscles and skinny, toned and untoned. Weideman is tall and light, but not too skinny. Same for Mitch King, looks like a young ruck but not really a beanpole. Hulett is a physical specimen, he's definitely the most ripped of the bunch, but not overly tall, there's a noticeable drop (even if it is only an inch) between him and Weid. Wagner looks more mature, strong in the legs, bit skinnier in the upper body. From all that I saw they did their own thing on the far wing. Some handball weave around a defender. Some kicking drills. Kicking 20m to a partner whilst swapping ends that tested the kicking as they progressively fatigued. Weideman kicks nicely for a tall, likes to use his left as well. King ok for a young ruck, better when fresh and for his age he's probably more advanced than Gawn and certainly more advanced than Spencer. Hulett probably the best kick of the bunch at least over short distances. Oliver isn't a bad kick, but did drop off a little when fatigued. They then did some interval running. Oliver led the bunch of them which is a good sign, they all stayed pretty compact over the 300m or so repeats that they were doing. After that they watched training. Hulett and Weideman took particular interest in the drill Rawlings was running with a group of talls practising contested marking. Oliver and Goodwin had what looked like a friendly chat, with Oliver threatening to take a hanger over Goody at one stage and having a laugh. It was more of the type of small drills for the main group. Mainly kicking or handballing under pressure. Some quick reaction and tackle drills as well. They spent a long time doing a drill where 2 players would get the ball in the centre square, work passed 1 play pressuring then kicking inside 50 to a 3 on 2. One half rotated everyone through the midfield players, whilst the other group used Salem, Melksham, White and ANB as the 4 in the middle and then rotated through the forwards. Melksham looked sharp and skillful. If his decision making improves he'll be hand from half back. Petracca, Kent and Vanders floating through a forward line was fun to watch. Anyway after a variety of drills with a competitive focus it was on to some repeat sprints through the centre square. I counted 26 in this group to start with. Nice to see Petracca joining in. A group of 6 - Kent, Oscar Mc, Smith, Watts, Dunn, Jetta split off to do repeat longer sprints around the boundary. Whilst another group consisting of Kennedy, Frost, Terlich, King went with Crossy to do longer runs than that, maybe 300m or so. Kennedy led that group in a good showing. Poor Max King continues to trail. I'm surprised they haven't pulled him out to do more and more individual work on his running. It was hot and very gusty which no doubt impacted the skill level, but the good players shone through whilst the kicking deficiencies in several others were highlighted. Frost and Hunt are two who have a lot to offer with their athletic traits but can't reliably kick drop punts. Given that pessimism is my natural state regarding the MFC I am little concerned that we are outsmarting ourselves with so much competitive training and the risk of injuries. We've already mounted a decent toll even if they are only minor niggles. I also worry we split in to too many random and individual drills that leads to a lot of down time between drills and splitting of the playing group. I'm not sure how they manage the continuity of message. As an example Max King and Dawes were doing some goal kicking whilst out of the main group. Dawes was doing the right thing as a senior player and giving king some advice in how to kick for goal in the windy conditions. Unfortunately, King is a very nice natural kick. He's got a solid rhythm and kicks the ball well. Dawes is anything but. So I'm not sure he was the right man for the job. Dawes continued to slice several of his next kicks out to the right as he is prone to doing whilst King slotted a few. Just a few observations. Plenty of good bits as well and nice to see the new guys in action.

Popped along to training today. And whilst its the start of pre-season i would say most of the players wouldve been doing a lot of individual training in the off season. Because of this i was keen to see who was bulking up and who wasn't. Players that look to me to have changed body shapes include: Vandenberg: looks a lot fitter and looks to be covering the ground a lot better than last season. Petracca: he looks dramatically different and has lost the big hips that he had this time last season. A picture of fitness. O.Mcdonald: he is still thin but he is showing signs of filling out. It won't be this season but maybe next pre-season he'll start to really fill out but i like the signs. Billy stretch: he looked super fit last pre season and he now looks even more fit to go along with some strength. Watts: hasnt bulked up but has lost weight in his legs and looks set for a midfield role if in the best 22. Trengove: didnt see him do much but he has the perfect physique if it wasnt for his ankles. Salem: he has trimmed down again and now looks like he can maybe play more midfield time. Hasn't bulked up: Vince: he never does though Gawn Max king: i feel that he hasnt changed since the day he arrived. He still very much has a boys body. Viney: still big. Maybe a bit too big in the hips/legs but as a true inside mid maybe its not too much of an issue as long as he can track his own player around the ground. Anyway back to the training: The day was windy so kicking was dreadful. Terrible kicking for goal as well as field kicking. The draftees didnt do much. They just played kick to kick, did some run throughs etc. The ruckman we picked up looks to have some pretty questionable foot skills but he is a project playet and i wont be looking at senior action for a couple of years. Oliver lead the run throughs and covers the ground quite well. His short kicking was a tad floaty but it was super windy. Weidemans body needs a lot of work. He has a boys body and as he should but i'd be wanting an extra 5kg of muscle before contemplating senior football. His kicking was quite good. I couldn't spot hogan or brayshaw at today's training. They did some half ground ball movement finishing in a goal, but trying to emphasize using the hands and finish off close to goal. Not much else to report.

You are not alone LDC we all are capable of that. Gil is IMO a light weight, probably be ok if the AFL was on an even keel but they are being hit by multiple problems from different directions. It does not help IMO that Gil is an insider at the AFL with what you would imagine are a number loyalties to people. What the AFL needed when Vlad left was someone from the outside who did not owe anyone anything inside the AFL. We are now stuck with an AFL management team that spends its time covering each others mistakes instead of fixing problems.

I must say I thoroughly approve of this thread. Jack Trengove is not only a fantastic bloke, and leader, he when fit, is a fabulous footballer. Just the sort the MFC should be hanging on to (although I understand if he has a long term injury why he would be put on the market) JT in his first and second year showed he is a worthy pick 2, and we don't have many of those. His leadership is outstanding (I vividly remember in his first year when he through his vision and determination was personally responsible for us winning by a point in Darwin against PA, having sprinted half the ground to knock the ball through and score). I really hope he makes it, because at his best, he will be in the first 6 picked in our next premiership team.

I dont expect anything..... Im happy to be surprised

Whilst there's other threads regards Jack and the odd snippet of information here and there within training reports, I thought having a thread dedicated to his recovery from the Navicular injury would be a handy source for any details that 'landers might come across and want to share, catch up on and track his progress over the pre-season. Maybe something from his Twitter that the people who follow him can share with those who don't do Twitter or Instagram. Any articles that are linked online. Photo's from training. Etc. I doubt there's not one person who supports the MFC let alone the general footy public that would not like to see Jack back and playing senior footy. Along with his fellow 2009 draftee, Anthony Morabito, there's an enormous amount of talent we're still yet to see and the determination and hard work Jack has shown will hopefully pay the dividends he so desperately wants. All the very best, Jack! If mods feel it's duplication then merge away.

So you're saying that there is EVERYTHING to worry about???

The MFC website just posted the new jumper numbers for the players, as follows. 13# Clayton Oliver (Another red-head replacing Jordie McKenzie....I hope they get Adem Yze or even Allen Jakovich to present his jumper to him?). 26# Sam Weideman (taking the number from his school mate Christian Petracca...the only guy I remember to wear number 26# who was a pretty good player was Daniel Ward to present the jumper?). 27# Liam Hulett (perhaps have Jared Rivers or Anthony Ingerson present his jumper?). 34# Mitch King (maybe get Jeff White to present his jumper?). 42# Josh Wagner (the rookie listed player taking the number from Jake "Frank" Spencer. Perhaps get Peter Walsh to present his jumper?). 44# Joel Smith (Catergory B Rookie and son of high-flying Demon Shaun Smith. I would just have his Dad present his jumper perhaps?). 33# Jake "Frank" Spencer (showed some improvemrnt in 2015 but needs to improve his decision making and stop being so uncoordinated in his movements...maybe get Jeff Farmer in to present his jumper?). 32# Tommy Bugg (I would like to see Cameron Bruce present his jumper, if possible?). 35# Ben Kennedy (Maybe get Anthony McDonald to present the jumper?). 18# Jake "Apples" (Apple Turnover) Melksham (Hopefully Brad Green could present this jumper?). 5# Christian Petracca aka CP5 (Gotta get David "The Ox" Schwarz to present this jumper!). Anyways, I think that's all the changes for season 2016?

I think people will be pleasantly surprised by Kennedy. He was used as the sub at Collingwood on countless occasions, meaning his stats are somewhat misguiding. Collingwood are stacked with his type of player moreso than just about any other club. I think he will play round one and good luck to him.

I get the feeling that very few of our new recruits to the AFL will be getting games this year other than with the Casey Scorpions aside from Clayton Oliver who looks to me to pass the test of AFL readiness. Of course, Christian Petracca who has been on the list for 12 months should debut but there are about half a dozen others who need to develop physically, mentally and skills wise in order to get to wear the guernsey (outside perhaps the NAB Challenge). Sam Weideman appears to be lightly framed and, coming off the stress fractures to the ankle, will need time. The two Kings will remain well behind Max Gawn, Jake Spencer and a couple of the back ups who combine forward work with brief ruck stints. It's make or break for Jayden Hunt who needs to show that he's finally over the back problems that held his development back in his first two seasons. Both Hulett and Wagner will be stepping up a significant level from where they played this year into the VFL. All in all, most of our recruits to AFL have a lot of work to do to get out of "nowhere". Besides, three players traded into the club and the handful of those who missed all or large slabs of 2015 through injury would also be ahead of them. I think that's ultimately a good thing because it allows these youngsters to develop at their own pace without pressure which was also an important aspect of the was Roos nurtured players with much success when he was with the Swans.

Are you mental? The photo on the right shows how much he has progressed from the photo on the left.

Oh Billy, Billy boy.. When are you going to find, whatever it is that you are looking for..

It's not a sport. It's a vehicle for gambling. The horse results should be in the comics section of the paper next to the Keno and Tattslotto results.

It's not worth thrashing about - if it didn't happen we wouldn't have Tyson, Salem, Hogan, Petracca, Brayshaw etc now. It's just part of our path.

We need to keep a tally of how many times commentators call McKenzie instead of Oliver during games.

The fundamental that changes, apart form any new additions to evidence is how the hearing is carried out. Couldn't get more fundamentally different if you were to construct it yourself I've touched upon this before in regards it being conducted under the Inquisitorial style as opposed the Adversarial . The AFL tribunal for al lit's denials effectively acted as any court would in this land. It had a tribunal that was composed of traditionally experienced men who law experience would gravitate them towards a "beyond doubt " approach whether or not that was the means test of the day ( which it wasn't ) Yes they would apply the test of 'comfortable satisfaction" but they imho were far from wanting to actually go to the cause of the debacle and instead pruned the evidence back to the point where they of course had to deliver the judgement they did. This being exactly what the AFL wanted/needed and it's why I view the whole charade as a sham. CAs has already demonstrated its vastly different approach. Where it was unable to satisfy its interest in particular knowledge it called before itself a number of players. This was CAS acting, not WADA, not the players, but CAS. The nature of this hearing is to actually HEAR, to open eyes and see, and where bleary of inaudible to look harder and listen more. What becomes fundamentally different also is that CAS have historically been known to give greater weight to evidence that might border anecdotal , or whereby those prosecuting may have A, B, F and H and can only allude to CDE and G via not so much proof as by the probabilities of these being given what substantiation they can muster. The Acid test that the AFL tribunal seemed to apply was unreasonable bordering on the farcical as only Alchemists could have won over the judges Correct The AFl finds itself in very unfamiliar territory. ....no longer the Rooster in the Hen House

Will play Round 1 guaranteed.

is Frost on the gear? Built like Phar Lap.

Here it is from his Instagram stating: jtren9Admittedly coming from a low base, but progress nonetheless. The return of the calf continues... #babymoomoos #runforestruuuuun

As it's a sports station and carries a lot of AFL coverage and by extension coverage of our club I thought it was worth a post on the changes for the next year at SEN. I'm happy to see Francis Leach back. I think he can be a bit of a smart a... at times and he can drive me to distraction but I also think the station needed some intellect back on air. It has been pretty lightweight since Mark Allen came on board to replace Francis. I think KB can be ok but often plays up the contrarian view at the expense of the issue. Half is ok but can be limited when the big issues come up, Marko & the Ox....dumb & dumber (a bit unfair on the Ox I know but he needs someone stronger than Marko to work with). Andy Maher is a bit beige, Finey is Viney...or is Viney Finey...

Is there a physical state between 'skinny' and 'bulked up', or is that all there is? Just wondering.

Yet at the same time totally believable. It's the Browns. Pre game I think it was Steve Young saying the Browns can't be influence by the past and have to make decisions based on what really is right but I feel for them because they just can't seem to win no matter what they do. Not even the other perennially bad teams in the NFL compete with their level of misery. So with their history you'd say they needed to win every game they can, build confidence in their coach and build a winning feeling. But the other side of that is they need a top draft pick and to get one right for once and they need to decide if Manziel (or even Davis) is the long term QB. Plus they need to find the right coach and the right GM. I think they have the right coach but not the right GM. I'm really glad no poor bugger on here follows the Demons and Browns.

I think we all should attend a rally at Dallas Brooks Hall to thrash this issue out. No merger.

I was going to say JKH, to see if he can consolidate a spot in our best 22. But I've changed my mind, and think 2016 is going to be a big year for... Max Gawn. Many would consider 2015 a break out year for Maxy, but I'm not sold yet. He showed he has the ability to play at the top level at various stages, but now I want to see him do it for 22+ games in a season. I want to be assured that he has the desire to not be out of place if mentioned in the same breath as Goldstein. I want him to prove that he has both feet heavily planted on the ground, and is willing to make any personal sacrifice to give himself the best opportunity to be one of the best rucks in the league. 2016 will show me if Max is content with being the number 1 ruck at Melbourne, or if he has the drive to be the best in the league. It's over to you, Max.

I understand all that. And I am not advocating the end of the racing industry. But ... If there was no betting on horses, the racing industry would cease to exist. It is a vehicle for gambling.

One of the biggest employers of labour in the country. Try riding a half ton beast at speed and see just how fit you have to be. This is as much a sport as anything we have in this country. It has created legends and stars and it's part of our folklore and history. Of course, you don't have to like it and you are entitled to your opinion, but to say the thoroughbred industry is not a sport is simply ludicrous.

If he wants to kick Picket Fences', I say, let him.

Interesting comment. Over the years the commentary has changed because of this. It used to be along the lines of "I think the Frankston Hoodlums will win this weekend because they have Smith back in the side, Jones is kicking goals and they're smarting from their upset loss last week." Now it is "I think the Frankston Hoodlums will win because the bookies have them at $1.30" The gambling has infested even the "expert analysis"!

IMO forget Jack for the first half of 2016 he will not contribute at AFL level before mid season ( assuming all goes well with his foot ). Even after that he will have to get a spot in the side. All I hope for next year is for him to prove his body can go the distance and prove he deserves a spot on the 2017 list. Good luck JT you deserve a bit.

I can't stand this station. Not so much for the presenters, well a lot of them I can't stand actually but Andrew Gaze is probably the worst. How someone can trade on this lovable goofball schtick that he constantly puts out is beyond me. Very irritating. But the real problem is the gambling advertising and innuendo. It is so pervasive that you don't realise how much they do it. If you are a gambling addict, recovering or on the precipice this station is very bad for your situation. Save nothing for the amount of ads in general but the gambling stuff is really bad. Which is a shame because during footy season it is a great source of information - I guess I'm glad for stereo controls on the steering wheel so I can mute it or switch back to 774 or PBS!

Not surprised they're changing things up. On the drive home I've been turning off the Allen/Ox combination. It's a flaky program that needs substance. On last listenings they consistently prefer talking about their recent rounds of golf and how beautiful the courses are in the mornings....I mean WGAF. It will be interesting to see how Ox copes with early mornings over time if he's moving to brekky. The travel/lifestyle may suit him better getting up very early at 3-4am though from BH and on the golf course by 10:30am. I could listen to Francis Leach, I've never taken to A. Maher. The guy who takes 5 minutes to ask a question which includes his answer, what he thinks the interviewee will answer and by the time the question finishes, the one being interviewed inevitably misplaces half the question having fallen asleep. Mark Fine is great at radio when in form and focussed. Most notably post games of AFL. Nights suit him. But I think the 9am-noon slot would also be very good for him and their station if KB would go. Harf is a bit vanilla for me. Knowledgable but I agree with CB, he needs to get off the fence on occassions. JYB interviews are worth listening to now and then. Gaze needs some help, the pairing with Maher hasn't worked IMO. Not sure about Gaze, but basketball needs a voice and he is front and centre in this town with his connections here and in the US.

So Gil the dill score board is 1 - 20. He has got the price of Pies down so that looks his sole win. The loss side is mounting rapidly the bookies have him "gone before the start of 2017" at 5-1

Yep...pretty hard to move Kev. Imagine the argument if they tried.

Sorry, Arsenal is already preparing to exercise its traditional option on fourth. Liverpool will just have to plan on third.

Waking up to Andy Maher and Gaze is not good for the health. Nobody speaks on radio as badly as Maher Gaze knows about Basketball and NOTHING ELSE!! Francis Leach is a real radio man. Glad he is returning Is KB still on at 9?

Leach in his first stint at SEN was a beacon of enlightenment shining out over a sea of meathead-ery. Hopefully that will continue. Harf is pretty good, more across the issues than he lets on. I think he is reluctant to express views as he doesn't want the show to be "me me me". The reverse Alan Jones. KB is just a stirrer and takes every opportunity to poke a stick. As rjay said, overdoes it and often screws up a good issue with his antics. Funnily enough I don't mind him. He's pretty funny but as stubborn as ten mules. Dr Turf I like for his acid wit. I don't know how he manages to put up with KB. Gaze is good for his insights into elite team sport, especially Olympics. But on other topics, might as well have Trout from Woodend or Snapper from Port Philip Bay. He has been good in straightening out (in his own mild way) the SEN fanbois who swallowed the EFC/Hird/ASADA propaganda wholesale. Andy "I vehemently agree with the last caller and nothing can possibly make me change my mind except the next caller" Maher is useless. He cannot understand a single thing unless he can compare it to some aspect of the AFL and even then one wonders. Drinking game. Take a swig every time he says "absolutely" and you'll be under the table before breakfast. Watson has been in the media for many years and shows "absolutely" no sign of it. Shows the same media skill and savvy that he did on his first day way back when as a weather girl. Although he sounds like a decent bloke, has a good sense of humour and could be very good company at a barbie. Ox on the other hand has grown with the years and improved out of sight. But the combination of him and Allen increases the meathead-ery exponentially. Allen is better on his own than in a team. Good move to separate them. But how about a bit more Stephen J. Peake? Reading the news or sports sentral perhaps?

Id rather Grimes doing the 1% 'ers and stuffing up the kick occasionally, than Harry O doing SFA hard stuff, getting the ball on the cheap, and then running like hell and bombing it to the other team. Like he does every fricken time

Lee Harvey Oswald?

It's not technically a "weed" but I'm going to refer to Weideman as Kale until he bulks up.

Awesome!

Didn't you leave last time? You can't even quit properly.

Well, you have used the term "B grade" when describing footballers before ... here ... and here is another one. Here's one where you used the term "D grade" (strangely enough, in a previous conversation with me) By the way Stuie, would you call the club maneuvering it's way to getting picks 3 & 7 "innovative"? ... or is that just normal stuff? .

Geez, how much fitter does Vandenberg look?? He was superb in his first year but I reckon we will see him take his game to a whole new level next year. Could be anything.

Nothing like an endorsement from Demonlands very own moral compass and thread quality guru. Thanks, stuie.

Spoke to a mate in recruiting. His opinion: Oliver Wouldn't have made it past 5 Will likely be an exceptional talent (better than Wines) The dees will have an amazing inside midfield in the next few years. Weideman needs time to get his body right. King and to a lesser extent Huwlet - Speculative Wagner, skilled but slow

And last year was the 2014 draft - Brayshaw Petracca Stretch ANB O Mac White and vandenBerg Let's talk about this one