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Popped along to training today. And whilst its the start of pre-season i would say most of the players wouldve been doing a lot of individual training in the off season. Because of this i was keen to see who was bulking up and who wasn't. Players that look to me to have changed body shapes include: Vandenberg: looks a lot fitter and looks to be covering the ground a lot better than last season. Petracca: he looks dramatically different and has lost the big hips that he had this time last season. A picture of fitness. O.Mcdonald: he is still thin but he is showing signs of filling out. It won't be this season but maybe next pre-season he'll start to really fill out but i like the signs. Billy stretch: he looked super fit last pre season and he now looks even more fit to go along with some strength. Watts: hasnt bulked up but has lost weight in his legs and looks set for a midfield role if in the best 22. Trengove: didnt see him do much but he has the perfect physique if it wasnt for his ankles. Salem: he has trimmed down again and now looks like he can maybe play more midfield time. Hasn't bulked up: Vince: he never does though Gawn Max king: i feel that he hasnt changed since the day he arrived. He still very much has a boys body. Viney: still big. Maybe a bit too big in the hips/legs but as a true inside mid maybe its not too much of an issue as long as he can track his own player around the ground. Anyway back to the training: The day was windy so kicking was dreadful. Terrible kicking for goal as well as field kicking. The draftees didnt do much. They just played kick to kick, did some run throughs etc. The ruckman we picked up looks to have some pretty questionable foot skills but he is a project playet and i wont be looking at senior action for a couple of years. Oliver lead the run throughs and covers the ground quite well. His short kicking was a tad floaty but it was super windy. Weidemans body needs a lot of work. He has a boys body and as he should but i'd be wanting an extra 5kg of muscle before contemplating senior football. His kicking was quite good. I couldn't spot hogan or brayshaw at today's training. They did some half ground ball movement finishing in a goal, but trying to emphasize using the hands and finish off close to goal. Not much else to report.

Whilst there's other threads regards Jack and the odd snippet of information here and there within training reports, I thought having a thread dedicated to his recovery from the Navicular injury would be a handy source for any details that 'landers might come across and want to share, catch up on and track his progress over the pre-season. Maybe something from his Twitter that the people who follow him can share with those who don't do Twitter or Instagram. Any articles that are linked online. Photo's from training. Etc. I doubt there's not one person who supports the MFC let alone the general footy public that would not like to see Jack back and playing senior footy. Along with his fellow 2009 draftee, Anthony Morabito, there's an enormous amount of talent we're still yet to see and the determination and hard work Jack has shown will hopefully pay the dividends he so desperately wants. All the very best, Jack! If mods feel it's duplication then merge away.

Dropped in from about 2:40 to 4. Missing: Hogan, Brayshaw, Tyson, Newton, Viney, Lumumba, JKH, Spencer, Garlett Laps: Jones, Vince, Trengove. Bernie at a steady pace, Nathan motoring. Trengove doing his own thing. Modifield program for parts of the session: ANB, King, Frost, Terlich, Petracca. Max King has a right wrist injury, was only marking with his left arm. Now the new boys. Oliver is a good size for a mid as we all know. In decent condition as well. He reminds me of Brayshaw last year, maybe a little heavier in the legs but otherwise he's a mixture of muscles and skinny, toned and untoned. Weideman is tall and light, but not too skinny. Same for Mitch King, looks like a young ruck but not really a beanpole. Hulett is a physical specimen, he's definitely the most ripped of the bunch, but not overly tall, there's a noticeable drop (even if it is only an inch) between him and Weid. Wagner looks more mature, strong in the legs, bit skinnier in the upper body. From all that I saw they did their own thing on the far wing. Some handball weave around a defender. Some kicking drills. Kicking 20m to a partner whilst swapping ends that tested the kicking as they progressively fatigued. Weideman kicks nicely for a tall, likes to use his left as well. King ok for a young ruck, better when fresh and for his age he's probably more advanced than Gawn and certainly more advanced than Spencer. Hulett probably the best kick of the bunch at least over short distances. Oliver isn't a bad kick, but did drop off a little when fatigued. They then did some interval running. Oliver led the bunch of them which is a good sign, they all stayed pretty compact over the 300m or so repeats that they were doing. After that they watched training. Hulett and Weideman took particular interest in the drill Rawlings was running with a group of talls practising contested marking. Oliver and Goodwin had what looked like a friendly chat, with Oliver threatening to take a hanger over Goody at one stage and having a laugh. It was more of the type of small drills for the main group. Mainly kicking or handballing under pressure. Some quick reaction and tackle drills as well. They spent a long time doing a drill where 2 players would get the ball in the centre square, work passed 1 play pressuring then kicking inside 50 to a 3 on 2. One half rotated everyone through the midfield players, whilst the other group used Salem, Melksham, White and ANB as the 4 in the middle and then rotated through the forwards. Melksham looked sharp and skillful. If his decision making improves he'll be hand from half back. Petracca, Kent and Vanders floating through a forward line was fun to watch. Anyway after a variety of drills with a competitive focus it was on to some repeat sprints through the centre square. I counted 26 in this group to start with. Nice to see Petracca joining in. A group of 6 - Kent, Oscar Mc, Smith, Watts, Dunn, Jetta split off to do repeat longer sprints around the boundary. Whilst another group consisting of Kennedy, Frost, Terlich, King went with Crossy to do longer runs than that, maybe 300m or so. Kennedy led that group in a good showing. Poor Max King continues to trail. I'm surprised they haven't pulled him out to do more and more individual work on his running. It was hot and very gusty which no doubt impacted the skill level, but the good players shone through whilst the kicking deficiencies in several others were highlighted. Frost and Hunt are two who have a lot to offer with their athletic traits but can't reliably kick drop punts. Given that pessimism is my natural state regarding the MFC I am little concerned that we are outsmarting ourselves with so much competitive training and the risk of injuries. We've already mounted a decent toll even if they are only minor niggles. I also worry we split in to too many random and individual drills that leads to a lot of down time between drills and splitting of the playing group. I'm not sure how they manage the continuity of message. As an example Max King and Dawes were doing some goal kicking whilst out of the main group. Dawes was doing the right thing as a senior player and giving king some advice in how to kick for goal in the windy conditions. Unfortunately, King is a very nice natural kick. He's got a solid rhythm and kicks the ball well. Dawes is anything but. So I'm not sure he was the right man for the job. Dawes continued to slice several of his next kicks out to the right as he is prone to doing whilst King slotted a few. Just a few observations. Plenty of good bits as well and nice to see the new guys in action.

No clue.

Nothing like an endorsement from Demonlands very own moral compass and thread quality guru. Thanks, stuie.

Here it is from his Instagram stating: jtren9Admittedly coming from a low base, but progress nonetheless. The return of the calf continues... #babymoomoos #runforestruuuuun

"My, you look handsome today Jack""Why thank you Dom. You're pretty buff too" Jack and Dom complimenting each other.

CHANGES 2015 - The Nowhere Men by The Oracle I suppose I should be thankful that back in July when the National Under 18 championships were coming to a conclusion I wasn't beamed up to the starship Enterprise by its chief engineer, Montgomery "Scotty" Scott. At the time there was something in the order of 200 young footballers taking part in the carnival and I knew well the names and attributes of the best of them but had I returned from a race around the stars under the guardianship of Captain James Tiberius Kirk last week to discover who Melbourne drafted, I would have been in a state of confusion.Not a single player taken by the Demons represented his state in the championships - there were no All Australians and no familiar names from that period of several weeks when a number of those interstate games were shown in their entirety on Foxtel and discussed in the media and on the Net. One might have been forgiven for thinking that the Demons had traded out of the first four rounds of the draft to pick up some big fish but no - in fact, they had two selections in the top ten and all of the players they took were off the radar for one reason or another before and/or during the season. They were the "nowhere men". Clayton Oliver, the first choice at three which was parlayed into four when Melbourne bid for Sydney midfielder Callum Mills was an injured, restless soul when the 2015 season started - AFL Draft 2015: How Clayton Oliver came from nowhere Recovering from osteitis pubis, overweight and unable to do much of a preseason, he moved from the Bendigo Pioneers to the Murray Bushrangers. He missed the cut for the Victorian Country team but by midseason, with improved fitness, the powerful inside midfielder made his run. By season's end he was the Morrish Medallist and a star of the draft combine with significantly reduced weight and skin folds. This is what his coach at the Bushrangers told Inside Football:- Melbourne's other top ten selection which eventually came at pick 9 was Sam Weideman from the Eastern Ranges. An AIS AFL Academy member, he started early in the season against two VFL teams but succumbed to stress fractures in his ankle - season over. His story is chronicled in these articles.AFL BLOODLINES: WEIDEMAN WANTS TO FORGE HIS OWN LEGACY Sam Weideman reflects on draft expectation, famous surname, ankle injury AFL Draft 2015: Sam Weideman wants to make a point After the draft - Sam Weideman documents his draft experience before and after joining Melbourne The talent manager at the Eastern Ranges where he was a teammate last year of Christian Petracca had this to say:- The Demons continued to think big with their remaining choices, selecting ruckman Mitch King (who is shown in a number of Bushies highlight reels deftly palming the ball down the throat of Clayton Oliver) and key position player Liam Hulett. Again, both players were highly thought of by the recruiters but injuries had conspired to keep them off the radar. And the Demons' first rookie selection, Josh Wagner is a 21-year-old defender from the NEAFL. The club's other rookie draft selections confirmed the redrafting of Viv Michie and the selection of Joel Smith as a Category B rookie.As a result of the drafts, the club's playing list for 2016 is:- PRIMARY LIST: Angus Brayshaw Tomas Bugg Chris Dawes Lynden Dunn Sam Frost Colin Garland Jeff Garlett Max Gawn Jack Grimes James Harmes Jesse Hogan Liam Hulett Jayden Hunt Neville Jetta Matt Jones Nathan Jones Ben Kennedy Jay Kennedy-Harris Dean Kent Mitch King Heritier Lumumba Oscar McDonald Tom McDonald Jake Melksham Alex Neal-Bullen Ben Newton Clayton Oliver Cameron Pedersen Christian Petracca Christian Salem Jake Spencer Billy Stretch Dean Terlich Jack Trengove Dom Tyson Aaron vandenBerg Bernie Vince Jack Viney Jack Watts Sam Weideman ROOKIE LIST: CATEGORY A Max King Viv Michie Mitch White Josh Wagner ROOKIE LIST: CATEGORY B Joel Smith * player quotes from the current edition of Inside Football

Couldn't agree more McQ. He's a great bloke and can play. Hopefully we see him back bigger than ever. Good luck Trenners, u deserve it.

The importance of this can't be underestimate in terms of our decision to draft him. Roos has been unequivocal about the need to build a team of players with strong values and good character. Crucial element of the Roos rebuild of the MFC and the culture he is trying (successfully i believe) to develop.

If you take on board conversations from people who know what they are talking about, you might be sold. If you take on board from people like B.Sanderson who has said just as much. Including his All Stars game v Blues, you will be confident in knowing that he is athletically gifted, and took the game apart in one half highlighted by all his leading and contested marks. And if you ask me, a guy on limited preparation due to niggle (coming off no base), injuries and very limited footy in 2015 at 196cm testing at 12.4 in the beep is not concerning one bit. No matter the howlers here that say it's a poor return. There were 'mids' post season, injury free, that returned mid 13's.

Ben, do you have a brother Jack?

Rawlings got a group of 5 - Dawes, Pedo, Gawn, Oscar, Grimes for a one on one marking drill. Started with practising technique from behind. All about lowering your hip and leaning in to move the guy in front forward or at least hold your ground. Also practising the defender using a technique to roll their shoulders and spin behind to get back position. Interesting stuff. Filmed on the iPad with the best examples demonstrated to the group (including Weid and Hulett who weren't participating). Then they practised holding front position and marking under what Rawlings deemed 70% pressure with a whack to the shoulder blades. At one stage Grimes protected front spot with a series of well placed elbows behind to Oscar Mc that made Rawlings very happy. He was loving it. Oscar competed well the big boys and put his strength to the test. Pedo held a few grabs with strong hands. Big Duncan used his height to take a few nice grabs. The one disappointment was as usual Dawes, who just gets way too bogged down in the strength battle and can't push off, take a couple of steps and mark at full reach. When it works by dominating the strength battle he then just sticks his arms out marks unopposed, but way too often he didn't capitalise on winning the battle by going and getting the ball. After you've out bodied your opponent you have to either protect enough space in the drop zone to get to or jump up and mark clear of the incoming fist. I thought Rawlings was much too kind on him, he needs to practise marking on the move and wasn't. Anyway. Something interesting.

Best thread for months. Nice one.

I spoke to a club recruiter on the weekend and he had Weideman at #2. said he could be anything. Can play FF/CHF or he thought he would make a great CHB. Absolute highest quality kid.

The question about the possibility of sanctions against Melksham was asked of Jason Taylor at the club's recent pre draft function and the response was that the club had advice that the possibility of any major sanction was low. I don't know what source such advice came from but, after a long time in the law, I can say that I would never give that advice to anyone.

Hogan doesn't give a sh*t how many blokes are around him.

Lee Harvey Oswald?

Are you mental? The photo on the right shows how much he has progressed from the photo on the left.

My parents would have to be exceptionally cruel people for me to have a brother named Jack. Thankfully, they're not cruel.

is Frost on the gear? Built like Phar Lap.

I really like Jack ...and rate him. He has shown that he can do the business but injury (and maybe the captaincy) has cruelled him. I l would love to see him have a real run at it so we could see just what a player he might be.

I think he's saying something along the lines of "Just have fun out there and do your best, that's all that counts"

I'm most interested in the line "without receiving proper consent from its players". I'm taking the Herald Sun story at face value, but I can see how that might also have been used by the club and the players in their arguments in front of CAS. I could see the players giving evidence that they consented to being injected with various things that they checked were legal and were never told about and therefore never consented to any illegal supplements. Whether they were given illegal supplements or not (I could see them arguing) was unknown to them because all they thought they were being given was what Dank told them he was injecting them with, which, they thought, was the stuff they had checked with ASADA and been told was legal. It's all supposition on my part, but I've believed all along that it is quite possible that if the players were injected with something illegal, it was without the players' and possibly the club's knowledge. It makes sense to me that any person providing the illegal injections wouldn't tell anyone that what he was using was illegal and that if he indeed did break the law, he did so to improve his own standing in the industry by "working miracles" with what he does. If that's the case, I still believe the provider of those illegal supplements should end up in gaol.

He's just too "nice" on the field. With the team of competitors we are building he sticks out like a sore thumb. He needs to find his edge or he will be gone by the end of the year. I like Jack, He's obviously a great kid, but can any of you honestly picture him in a grand final? I know clubs need outside players, but at hawthorn these players still go when it's their turn. When it's jacks turn he gets outmuscled by Jamie Bennell. He would be a great player if he had some mongrel, but it's just not in him.

Highlights clips are exactly that, you see when the ball is in his area and very rarely do they show the work in the lead up to that or his sprints in order to create a lead. Regardless of your viewing of his highlight clips, did you actually get to see him play football in order to formulate an opinion or do you stick to watching highlights clips to base your views on a footballer. It worked with your initial views of Clayton Oliver, who we picked at three and once it looked like that was going to be the case you backflipped on your views. The comparisson of Wiedeman to Boyd is a fair one, in my opinion as they are similar type of footballers and whilst i hope nothing more than to see Wiedeman succeed now that he is in a Melbourne jumper, it did not change that before the draft I was underwhelmed by what i had seen of him. I have full faith in Jason Taylor and the recruiting guys and back them in to do their jobs, but that still does not mean that in the game i saw he looked slow and as i did not get to see him at the carnival this year it is the only real vision of him i can run with.

Oh I have a pretty good idea

Ha ha are you sure it wasn't Warnie's mum??

I a legitimately surprised that not one draftee over the past few years pulled a Wingard and said "I will not play for you". Then again, maybe some did and we never heard about it.

Spoke to a mate in recruiting. His opinion: Oliver Wouldn't have made it past 5 Will likely be an exceptional talent (better than Wines) The dees will have an amazing inside midfield in the next few years. Weideman needs time to get his body right. King and to a lesser extent Huwlet - Speculative Wagner, skilled but slow

Everyone is banging on about 'true competitors' and rolling out the time old cliches, but the reality is that premiership winning teams always have players like Jack Watts as the icing on the cake. The Hawks have a couple of them in Gunston and Suckling. You could probably go through every successful club and pick out the players who play their role through skill and intelligence rather than aggression. I firmly believe as the team begins to gel we will see Jack come into his own more and more.

And this: "Details of the charges released by the Melbourne Magistrates Court show Essendon administered substances without properly informing the club doctor or receiving proper consent from its players." So in a court of law they have admitted this. So who made the decision to do that? What players asked questions? Or checked on the programme? What did the Doctor do? Why is he still practicing? Why are the decision-makers still allowed to be around sporting clubs? They dig themselves a deeper hole every time they have to answer a different body. The AFL conveniently ignores it because it doesn't wan to risk blow back from Demetriou's actions... Sad

Yes, Hird for example ... a giant of a man ... after holding his sword aloft for so long, finally fell on it, for the good of the players. That's what Tracey Holmes said. I think it was "sword". Maybe it was "prong". Something like that.

^^^ Just add that to the pile...

Which has nothing to do with Jason Taylor..

BADA bing!

BB, I'm a bit disappointed you didn't get all of nada, WADA and ASADA into the same post.

The problem with this RGRS, as I have said numerous times beofre on here, is that if you replace EFC with the Chinese swim team you get a different perspective. You can't have an athlete saying, 'my coach and doctor told me to take it'. The systemic Russian and East german athletic programmes mean that clean athletes are cheated. It seems clear they were all duped but that's tough for them. Tough too for Raelene Boyle missing out on gold medals and tough too for the 17 other clubs that were playing EFC during that period. The drug code just simply can not work that way. That's why athletes are totally responsible. They can't outsource that responsibility. And as for all the training about drugs you can't tell me not ONE single player spoke to someone outside the club like their wife or manager or personal doctor etc? It beggars belief. Oh that's right, It was a black ops. I mean really? The EFC and its players were looking for an adge and were pushing the boundaries. They threw common sense outthe window and relied on the vibe that Dr Reid was overseeing thr programme. And Dank? I mean FFS one look at Dank and you would seriously question his credentials wouldn't you? He's a freaking witch doctor. Reid should never practice again, How he is still in place at the EFC is beyond me, The players. Unbelievably stupid and should be banned for 2 years. The club administrators should never be able to be associated with a sporting team again, The club should be banned for another two years minimum. There is no half-pregnant when it comes to drugs. Either you take the hard line or dont bother. The players have yet to be punished. They deserve the book thrown at them.

Got down to training for the first time this year for about 45 minutes. Hope to get down when the new guys start. Enjoy at https://six6six.smugmug.com/photos/swfpopup.mg?AlbumKey=Nn2HjG or Mobile https://six6six.smugmug.com/Training27112015/n-x72ZKW

This will be just the start of course. Based on the Armstrong precedent, the players will be found guilty and suspended for two years (with maybe a slight discount). ASADA will then issue infraction notices to the coaches and medical staff unfortunately probably including Goodwin. Penalties will be handed down by the AFL. WADA will object and appeal to CAS. Various legal actions will no doubt follow given Hird's and Reid's past proclivities so the whole circle will start again. "Blue Hills" has got nothing on this!

Yes Jack, I think this is symptomatic of how "head in the sand" the whole of the AFL industry has been right throughout this saga. I think they have thought all along that this will all be fixed by doing deals and that is why both Essendon and the AFL were seemingly blindsided by the WADA appeal to CAS. It was as if they were saying "you can't do this to the all powerful AFL!" I bet Jason Taylor's advice came from inside that closeted AFL establishment. They could hardly say anything else could they, otherwise their whole carefully built up trading system would collapse. The question I ask is where were the legal "hard heads" who were supposed to be looking after the interests of the MFC. If we could see two years ago that to have anything to do with Essendon and all those associated with the Hird regime was crazy, why couldn't they. I have written a number of times on here that we should never have engaged Goodwin, no matter how good a coach he is, and we certainly should not trade for any Essendon players of that era, until this is all cleared up. And it may not be for years given the litany of legal cases which are likely to follow CAS.

Viv is a good player. If youre talking depth he is about 5 steps up from the usual depth players we have had the last 5 years Anyone hating on him is ridiculous

Grimes won't be done as an AFL player post-2016. The question will be whether or not he plays for the MFC, should he find himself falling down the pecking order. He's frustrated over the years but I hope he sticks around. There's something to be said for players who absolutely bleed red and blue, and he's a credit to himself and the club in everything he does. He showed some positive signs last season. Just needs to build on that and take his opportunities.

Apparently our C.E.O. is all over these two and Brandon Parfitt form the NT but knows we are unlikely to be able to trade up to more than one first round selection which begs the question If Peter picks Petrevski-Seton Has he pickled that pick for Powell-Pepper and Parfitt?

The players are as much to fault. They are the ones initially advantaged and the the team. bugger the stupid idiots and pillory those that used them.

He played 20 games this year, despite the fact every year of his last 4 has been labelled "make or break" by the same Demonland posters every time. Everyone just wants to make definitive statements like "next year is make or break" or "next year will be his breakout year".... Maybe he's just a decent player and that's it. He's not a "spud" he's not a star, he's just a decent player. Everybody wants to be the tough guy on an internet forum going a hard as they can to one extreme or the other, and you're definitely the epitome of that.

Not really surprising, Luce. He's describing what's at stake for WADA in the appeal. That won't compromise the court's deliberations and it doesn't breach the secrecy of the proceedings.

The 24th pick in the Rookie Draft? We 'wasted' the 24th pick in the rookie draft? How does one waste nothing?