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I hate these sorts of games. There's no avenue for satisfaction - we either win as expected as the opposition have the cue in the rack, or we somehow lose and suffer that embarrassment. Hope Hogan kicks 10, or something else happens that makes this dead rubber worth watching.

I don't normally rant and rave and start threads complaining but today is the last straw. I want an apology from the playing group and a proper explanation to why they decided to give up or not try against the bottom of the club side. There is no pressure no taclking no running and no leadership. After years of being a member and watching every game I've had enough and I won't renew my membership unless I get an apology from the club players. This performance is utter [censored]

Well, goddamn. Just got back from the game. I suffered through the entire debacle. We hit all our performance indicators today. Come out meek and insipid instead of breathing fire after a thrashing? Check Weak start giving the match away by quarter time? Check Make Carlton look like they're West Coast? Check Play 15 minutes of decent footy just to show that they can? Check Play the oppo's junk forward into form? Check Fall over at every opportunity? Check Deliver the ball to teammate about to get poleaxed? Check Deliver ball behind teammate? Check Save time by just delivering ball straight to opposition player? Check Carlton. Effin Carlton. Or do I mean, effin Melbourne.

We've improved ? Like f we have. We lose to useless shlt like Essendon and Carlton. We cant stary a game to save ourselves. Players waft in and out of play as suits their momentary state of mind. Theres no improvement. All we see are various aberrations to the norm...i.e degrees of crap !! We splashing around in the water...going nowhere. Cant wait for the clubs spin.

The Demons step out onto the MCG for the final time this year in the eight anniversary commemoration of the infamous Kreuzer Cup game from 2007. Fittingly, Matt Kreuzer will be on hand to play in ruck for the Blues after what has so far been an injury ravaged career and Chris Judd who was another Carlton prize from its tanking spree will be parading around in a motorcade to celebrate those many years in the wilderness his club went through and millions spent after they secured him in the farcical selection drama they set up at the time. Given that Juddy was paid a fortune to promote the environmental friendliness of an organisation that was once fined $36m over price fixing, one hopes that the vehicle carting him around the ground will be an electric model but I wouldn't put my house on that. As for the game itself - meh. The result will probably be the same as it was eight years ago although it wouldn't surprise me if Levi Casboult suddenly discovered his kicking boots and scored seven or eight straight (unlike Lance Whitnall who did such a fantastic job shanking shots at goal from 15 meters out). I hope somebody had the foresight to invite Travis Johnstone to join the motorcade as well to celebrate his 42 uncontested possessions from that very memorable day/night occasion.

I want an apology from my old man for helping make me a Demon. I also will have to forever apologise to my kids for making them Demons

I'm just sad. Like everyone here i've watched us go from top 8 finishes to completely bottoming out and it's this loss over any in the last 10 years that i finally feel nothing can be done to this club to change it's current situation. No amount of draft picks, marquee coaches or undervalued rookie pick ups can pull this debacle together. I sit there with 2 close mates of mine who are hawks supporters and I have blown up at them twice in the last week when they begin to talk footy because I can't handle to listen to other people talk about success when it's been so long since i've felt anything close myself. I'm bitter, I'm jaded and I'm just downright sad that out of every football club in the land, i was stuck with this one 23 years ago. I don't want an apology from the club, I don't want empty promises from Jackson or Roos or Goodwin, I just want clarification as to how this has been allowed to go on for so long. this is no longer an onfield issue, this is an organisational issue, right down to the boys who pump up the sherrins.

I want to follow an AFL club again....I mean a real one. Yes, I'll keep buying memberships...and I'll keep donating money to third world countries too. Its some kind of obligation I have. But thats what this club has become ....an obligation. Whenever you think you've hit the bottom they're always there to take you one step lower.

Jones Vince Dawes Mcdonald Howe Garland hang your heads in absolute shame! When we needed you guys to stand up you were pathetic! Kudos to the younger players in Michie Stretch Brayshaw ANB Salem Newton who showed desperation atleast wanted it.

For the first time ever, I really no longer care.

I'd like to second whoever it was in the game day thread that had a go at Trengorve for potting supporters who have a crack at players. AFL is actually an easy sport to evaluate. Did you beat your opponent? Did enough of you beat your opponent to win? If not you lost. It's not a nice reality but it is a reality. We are a losing team and supporters are VERY entitled to feel let down by the playing group because we've had different coaches, regimes and styles. The players need to be held accountable for us not being good enough. It's why they earn on average 4 time what the average person earns. They aren't good enough and sadly as a rusted on supporter I can accept a lack of ability. I can't accept a lack of effort and mental preparation. That's what I got today and it's not acceptable.

Carlton are a top 4 team, could have been worse, we could have lost to a bottom two team. I haven't looked at the ladder all year, just guessing here.

I have my pitch fork and stones ready... Where are we heading?

Gotta be at least 5-6 others on the list worthy of delisting before Viv. He's a great kid, too. Would be sad to see him cut loose.

I love it when the Scott wankers blow a fuse. Makes me happy.

I simply refuse to allow this current generation of inept, overpaid and mentally weak mfc players, the uninspiring on field leaders and the seemingly endlessly pathetic mfc player performances & results to make me want to give up on this club and the dream of one day seeing my footy team win a flag. I am 33 years old and so I can't profess to have suffered through the clubs woes during the late 60s, 70s and early 80, but looking back to the days when I first really started supporting this club as a12 yr old watching the ox (pre knee recos) tear up and G against the blues in the 94 finals series, it seems like a lifetime ago, but even then I could sense we were bitterly close to an elusive flag, and just the same in 98 and 2000 for many of the same reasons, hard luck , up there but just not good enough to go all the way. The ups and downs of the daniher era were annoying but you always knew we could turn things around and be competitive. I could never have imagined what lie in wake for us these past 8 years, but one thing I do know is that in this game the wheel keeps spinning, dynasties don't last forever and nor does languishing at the bottom of the ladder, yeah sure some clubs have a far better record than us of rebounding and turning things around , but no matter how far back you go through the history of the game , each club has it's day and it's moments, and it's glories, and we have been walking in the wilderness for a long time and waiting and dreaming (even if delusionally) for our time to come Someone earlier on this thread referred to supporting Melbourne, paying your membership and enduring all of this sh$t over the past 10 years as an "obligation" I would agree and part of it also gives me a sense of calm when watching typical performances like this today, whilst frustrating, I feel more connected to this club (not the players or the administration) but it's history and supporters and the journey and the obligation not to give up on it and the desire to one day see it be a powerhouse again. I wish it would come quicker, but it won't, but I know one day it will

This club is beyond help There is simply not enough that can be done at the seasons end to make anything usable with this list. We only get so many draft picks as currency for trade. There are bugger all quality free agents, none which would even want to come here. Our currently players are so bad and damaged that they have no trade currency. The drafting and trading system is just too limited to fix this club. Doesn't matter who coaches us. Even when we do get new blood in bit by bit, by the time we can get more in, the ones we got last time are so screwed and disinterested by our losing culture that they become just more of the same as what we have had. It's a cycle with no end in sight

That was just unacceptable. That first half was as bad as I have seen. Second to the ball, no intensity, rubbish skills.... We win a quarter and that is supposed to be some 'salve'? We made Carlton look like contenders. They were crap, we were worse. I will not go again this year. The GWS game will be the worst attended ever. I sat through the Bulldogs game. I sat through that. I made a commitment to turn up, where the F&&k were the players?

Did the unthinkable and stopped watching at half time to take the kids for a drive and some fun at the park. They deserve better than me wasting my precious spare time watching the sort of rot produced in the first half. Im surprised at how little it hurts me anymore. So many players just dont seem to care, why should I.

I want a new club.

I dont get this mindset Nasher... any win should be satisfying for MFC fans. Ill never take any win for granted after what we have dshed up since 2007.

At least Tom McDonald has it right which gives me some hope for the future , six wins is not successful, no matter how delusional Rawlings is.

He is still young and has not played many games, but within those games I have seen things to show he can make it at AFL level. Def keeper I reckon. Most players require at least 20+ games to feel comfortable at the highest level. FFS we have persisted with M jones (50 games), Bail, Terlich etc for longer and they have shown less skill wise than this guy.

My problem with many of the posts over the last few years are that many carried on about his lack of pace when it was obvious that injury of some type was slowing him down. I and others stated on numerous occasions that you just don't lose pace in your early 20's unless something is seriously wrong. It was obvious if anyone took the time to look at his earlier games but many just didn't want to hear about it. Some of the posts were just plain ridiculous but I guess that went with the territory the way the team as a whole was performing and supporters looking at a lot of our wasted early draft selections. Trengove was always a good pick at 2, lets just hope he gets back on the park to prove it.

Rohan bail

Gave this bloke a wack yesterday for continuing to push Trengove while he had fracture symptoms in his foot. And now he is paying the price for that insipid decision. Anyway should we start asking questions? When he started with Neeld he said it would take 3 seasons to get us up to scratch. Yet when i look now we are still struggling to play a 4 qtr game.. We are not running hard and our effort to spread hard is deplorable. Very surprised he hasn't come under heat.

I'd go into 2016 without Garland, Howe, Lumumba, Cross, Dawes or Grimes in my plans, and I'd be wary on Dunn.

It wasn't all bad... I got paid double time for 12 hours work, and missed all of the game.

I hope Jack Watts does an interpretative dance to go along with the written apology.

So a bloke organizing something on his holiday is the reason for the clubs performance today, is the reason we laid 5 tackles in the first quarter ? For starters he wasn't even out there today and was among the best in the VFL... Think we have far bigger problems then a fringe player booking into an event on his holidays

We need to draw a line in the snow.

MODERATORS I'm going to make an unusual suggestion. After this game, could you please open a new thread that is set to not censor foul language. I think we are all going to need it.

Umm lay a tackle? Man up? Spoil? Anything? This club is hopeless. Trengove actually had the nerve to have a swipe at fans who have a go at players. Said something along the lines of we don't know what it's like out there. Maybe if you didn't play like such an insipid bunch of pricks we wouldn't be so upset. Seriously, wake the [censored] up and have a [censored] crack you ass holes

Melbourne FC Est. 1858 "​Insulsis damnas opus. Insulsis damnas histriones. Insulsis damnas clave."

Not gonna bother renewing my membership next year, sick of putting up my hard earned cash for the last 12 years to this pathetic club, if the players can't be bothered putting in effort well I won't be either

Ok do people understand why i say Jones is not Captain material...

A win today would give us 7 so far, with a realistic chance of beating GWS in round 23 to make it 8 for the year. It would make the season a success, all things considered. All eyes on Hogan and Cripps in the Rising Star showdown.

I mentioned this a month ago but worth repeating. I attended a function prior to the Saints game where Josh Mahoney got up and spoke about a few players. It was Michies first game back for months from memory. Mahoney said he had been a class above at VFL level for 4 or 5 weeks and we now need to give him a chance to see what he can do in the seniors for a few weeks. I got the feeling from that discussion that he was told unless he shows something that his career could be shot. 5 weeks later he is still in the 22 and last week was possibly his best game at the club. He is worth perservering with for at least another year i would have thought.

Im going for one reason only. The hope that Hogan bags 7-8 goals and clunks 12 marks and destroys Jamison

“It’s a disappointing day and I’ve sort of never played in a game like that where it is my first time ever that didn’t sort of mean anything,” Pendlebury told 3AW radio. I wonder how often that attitude has affected the mindset of some of our senior players, either consciously or subliminally.

Concussed in last week's game after kicking four goals in the first half. Relax. He played but it was apparently a minor role. See below:- KC's match report will be posted during the day. As he told me last night, "it's a long bloody drive home from Coburg to Cranny, especially when you run into the MCG traffic full of emotionally charged Tiger and Magpie fans." :lo:

I like Viv and wanted it to work, but he's clearly got no elite traits at AFL level. He's OK, but we need better than OK. Keep turning the bloody list over and stop hanging on to fringe journeyman like we have for years. If we jettison one too early I can live with that. I'd rather a 'Viv' embarrass us than continually keeping ordinary players.

They're equally amusing in unequal ways. Both gave me much happiness though. Saints ruining Geelong's finals chances would've been the trifecta of perfection though.

For what it’s worth, last night I had an extremely vivid dream of Patrick Dangerfield carving it up for us in the rain against Collingwood. I never dream about footy. I even remember the final scoreline. Melbourne 95 d Collingwood 89. The only thing that goes against this dream being a portent of the future is that Herietier Lumumba played well, which is obviously impossible.

IF he wants to stay and isn't asking us to overpay him then keep him. If he's got wild notions of earning $600,000 a year then let him go earn it somewhere else. Simple. He's a good enough player to keep on the list, but not such a world-beater that we need to pay him overs to keep him. Pretty much like Howe really.

Only bloody good teams can do that.

Collingwood lose by 91 and the Giants lose by 89. It happens to young(ish) teams when there's nothing to play for. I genuinely believe our talent is greater than some believe and I look forward to a 10 (+) win season in 2016.

One thing i notice significantly was at times he showed real break away pace. Something i haven't seen from him before. I think he will play the rest of the year out and kept on for next year. Personally i think he has been unfairly treated this year compared to others. Always been a fan of Viv.

JACK Trengove loves and hates game day. He still gets goosebumps walking to the ground and the shiver down the spine when his teammates run through the banner. That’s what keeps him going. It’s what gets him through the 460-odd days since he last trained with his teammates. The 22 weeks he’s spent in a moon boot with his left leg sweating just sitting on the couch. And the two operations to insert a screw in his foot then replace it with bone marrow from his hip when the screw cracked. It will all be worth it in the end, he keeps telling himself. But at the same time Trengove hates game day because it reminds him where he should be. On the morning of Sunday, August 9, he was sitting in a cafe in Richmond drinking green tea while a few streets over his Melbourne teammates were arriving at the MCG to play the Kangaroos. Trengove should be one of them but by the time he returns to the field in 2016 it will have been two years since he last played a game. The No. 2 draft pick at 18 and youngest club captain in VFL/AFL history at 20 is now fighting for his career at 23 thanks to the dreaded navicular bone in his left foot. Jack Trengove in action for the Dees in 2013. And apart from feeling helpless watching from the stands on game day, he also has to bite his tongue. “I battle sitting in the crowd and watching because you hear people slagging off your teammates which I really struggle with,” Trengove said. “One thing I’ve realised more than ever in the last two years is how easy it is to criticise from the sidelines ... you don’t understand what it’s like to be out there in that situation.” That’s why as much as Trengove wants to get back to AFL footy to prove to himself that’s where he belongs, he wants to show a few others as well. “The main factor is to prove to myself that I can do it, I’ve grown up always loving footy and to have it taken away from you just bloody hurts,” he said. “But I’d be lying if I said I didn’t want to prove some people wrong. There are a hell of a lot of doubters out there and I tend to turn a blind eye towards that ... but you do want to prove a point.” Trengove didn’t have to sit in the stands to hear the knocks on him. To the observer at times in 2013 and for the first two weeks of 2014, he’d suddenly and unexplainedly lost his pace as if the game had passed him by. What the observer didn’t know however was a throbbing pain in Trengove’s foot made it almost impossible to run. “It’s a dull pain, you go to take off and jump but you don’t have anything,” he said. “It got progressively worse and to a point where I’d come out after half time and go to run and it was just aching every step and that was when I said ‘all right, I have to do something about it’. “It’s frustrating because you know you’re capable of doing more but your body is not letting you get there and upstairs you’re thinking ‘why isn’t this happening?’” IT ALL started so promisingly for Trengove who became a top-two draft lock when he dominated an SANFL preliminary final for Sturt as a 17-year-old in 2009. He played 37 games in his first two seasons at Melbourne and when Mark Neeld arrived as coach in 2012 he became the game’s youngest ever skipper as co-captain with Jack Grimes. The first sign of a foot fracture appeared in 2012 but Trengove was able to play out the season and rest it. He also got through the 2013 season but with Neeld’s sacking and him and the team struggling, he stepped down as captain to focus on his own game. “It was an absolute honour to captain the club but when Roosy (Paul Roos) came on board we had a chat about things and trying to figure out what’s best for my footy,” Trengove said. “A lot of the whack on me in the years I was captain was that I focused too much on it ... I had to sit back and think what’s best for the team was getting me performing at my best. “That was a lot of the reason for stepping away from it (captaincy) and I thought I had a new lease on life then I came down with the foot stuff.” Refreshed and re-motivated, Trengove got through the whole pre-season under Roos but 2014 lasted just two games when it was revealed he’d fractured his navicular bone. He had surgery in April, 2014, and did six months of recovery on crutches, in a moon boot and riding around the oval on a scooter. But when he tried running in September something didn’t feel right and scans showed cracks in the screws in his foot — requiring more surgery and meaning he had to start again. That period, Trengove says, was the toughest and when the 2015 season became a write-off he vented most of his frustration to his family but likes to think on the whole he has remained positive. To keep him busy he increased his study load in business at university and has been working one day a week with a financial planning firm. “It was hot weather, I was getting around on crutches or in a moon boot and thinking ‘what am I doing? Is it all going to be worth it?’ But you’ve got to stay positive,” he said. “Before all this started I’d hardly missed a game of footy in my life, I didn’t even know what injury meant, so the hardest bit was to get over the mental barriers of not being able to run out and play. “It’s (being positive) the only way to attack it because as soon as you get negative thoughts in your head that’s where it can go downhill. “And no doubt when I do get back from this one I’ll appreciate it a hell of a lot more because I’ve been out of the game a couple of years and realised how great it is to be in it.” Trengove is one of 16 top-20 draft picks Melbourne has had in the past nine years, yet only eight of those are still at the club. Despite that damning statistic, his own battle with injury and No. 1 pick Jack Watts having to deal with vocal critics his whole career, Trengove doesn’t buy into the supposed ‘curse’ of being drafted to the Dees. “It’s easy to sit back and predict what could have been if you went to another club but I don’t see the value in doing that,” he said. “No doubt we haven’t had much success but in saying that, you learn different things like facing a bit of adversity and I think it will make me a better player, it’s just a matter of getting through it all and I wouldn’t change it for a thing.” Trengove wouldn’t change a thing but things nearly changed for him last year when Richmond and Melbourne discussed a trade which would have sent him to Tigerland. “It was a unique and weird experience to go through,” he said. “I was literally sitting on the couch just trying to get my foot right and get back to running and that all came up. “Obviously it didn’t eventuate to anything because my foot didn’t hold up and I couldn’t be happier staying at Melbourne, they’ve supported me through the whole thing and I really want to repay the favour. “I’ve made a lot of friends within the club and with supporters and I don’t want to let them down.” AUGUST 7 was a momentous occasion for Trengove — so much so that his teammates made him run through a banner at training. The fact that he could run at all was the cause for celebration but Trengove planned his first jog since October to be a low-key lap of Gosch’s Paddock. Finally after 18 months of boxing, cycling, squats, dead lifts, calf raises and swimming Trengove was allowed to run. He knew something was up when he got to training and the club physio and teammates Max Gawn and Watts summoned him to the front of the group. “I thought I’d sneak out there and do my little insignificant two laps of walk, jog and be done,” Trengove said. “But they brought me in and Sammy the physio did a bit of a spiel about the amount of days it’s been since I’d trained. “Then Wattsy and Gawny stood out the front and said ‘we’ve all missed having Trenners out on the track so we thought we’d make it a monumental moment’ and they brought the banner out. “The great thing about the whole process I’ve been through is my teammates have always been there to ask how I’m going and it’s nice to have their support and them caring for me.” It was fitting that Gawn was behind the banner idea. He and Trengove were drafted together in 2009 and remain close mates, but as Trengove’s career took off Gawn’s stalled with two knee reconstructions and he didn’t debut until 2011. Now Gawn is flying as the club’s No. 1 ruckman and has just re-signed for three years. “Early days he was going from knee injury to knee injury and I always felt for him but didn’t realise what he was going through,” Trengove said. “Now I guess I’ve got a bit of a comparison and that’s a factor why he’s going so well now. “He’s done the hard yards and is now making the most of being out there and relishing it.” Like Gawn who some might have written off before his career even began, Trengove is hoping with hard yards and a bit of luck then his best might still be to come too.

The fact that we could have two #2 Draft Pick Midfielders (Trenners and Petracca) firing next year, plus whoever we get this trade period (fingers crossed), including the return of Frost, Kent, and Salem [censored] excites me.