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Having a laugh at Toumpas criticism. Seriously. 2 silly errors. But a lot of end to end running and quite a few classy possessions. He aint Gus Brayshaw. Deal with it. He's more like our boy Jack Watts with 5 years less bad coaching and a fighting chance and he's taking it. Watts was also very good after that early soft marking effort. Lumumba had a terrible first quarter as well. But those 3 (combined with Vince, Jones, Garlett and Brayshaw) were probably the driving force of our slick ball movement that led to the 2nd and 3rd quarter fight backs. But the errors: - Fitzy tunnel ball - Gawn turnover - Lumumbabumba (times a few) - Dunn kick out - Watts soft dropped mark - Howe fumble on the members wing when Garlett was off to the races The elementary errors quite easily accounted for the game margin. Unfortunately a few of these were from senior players. Some are explained as products of a team that just hasn't trained and played in enough high pressure situations. Some are inexcusable. Gawn won the ruck and Pendlebury, Swan, Crisp and Sidebottom were made to look second rate. Salem is a sorely missed down back, McDonald and Dunn had off days and our lack of reliable line breaker was again on show. The team will need to work more on how to combat a lose man which again is a lack of linebreaker in the middle/back half and just adding a few more half forwards who have the smarts for the position. Petracca, Kent, JKH are 3 options for half forward. Salem back at half back. Frost as a genuine strong key defender. We can't be satisfied with the result but we have to stay confident in the plan and in the talent on the list. Keep practising under pressure boys!

A couple of the hot potato handballs were poor, but most were good. He plays on a wing, his opponent is going to get some ball the other way. Sure he should've picked up Fasolo on the highlight shown on one of the TV shows but I significantly doubt Fasolo was his man. He needs more game awareness to make those decisions but the reality is he was likely working hard to get back and help the defenders and Fasolo was just as likely one of their men. First year Toump couldn't mark, couldn't tackle, wouldn't win a contested ground ball and was completely lost. He's now much stronger with contested ball and an acceptable tackler. Still can't really mark. But he is starting to think and work his way through scenarios and his work rate is a step above any other options we have in what's probably our weakest position. He's far from perfect but I think it's very myopic not to see the positives in his game today and not to recognise signs of improvement. To suggest he be dropped is massively undervaluing what he can bring and massively overrating what little we have at Casey by way of hard running wingmen.

Re Toumpas - He did not tunnel ball the sherrin through the goals. He did not kick it straight to A Collngwood player as Dunn and Viney did He did not let Elliot outmark him in the goalsquare - 2 players 195cms did that I get as frustrated as anyone with him but he is worth persevering with. He needs to take a look at Brayshaw and be prepared to back himself.

Just finished watching the replay and few notes: ANB was excellent in close. He made a lot of very good decisions and his close movement means he often finds a bit more space than he should. He executes really well. He reminds me of Lachie Neale a bit. Tyson was the probably BOG. His class was evident and he just found ways to create space. You can tell he's used to a higher level as he had so much time. He was so, so clean with the footy. I though Harmes was excellent. Probably the best game I've seen from him. He has great attributes (pace, strong overhead, reasonably good skills) but he really found a way to get involved in the game. He appeared to work hard defensively too, which is promising. He is a player that will do a few things a game that make you go "Woah, that's impressive", but this game he managed to get himself more involved and actually impact the result. Really good signs. I'm impressed by White. He is a player who you don't feel should impress, especially with his weird running style, but he does a lot of things really well. He kicks it beautifully, is very strong overhead and is, surprisingly, a really sound defensive player. I don't know how, but he's always on the hammer of his opponent and spoils well with the body. I think I need to have a good look at him live, because there's something happening with him, but I don't know what it is. I think I'm confused about his pace, because he doesn't look like he should be quick, but I'd love to see whether that's right or not. McDonald moves like his brother, but needs a lot more bulk. But there's a lot to like.

To the people saying drop Toumpas, yes he made a few poor decisions, but overall he actually had a decent game. He had 21 disposals, 8 contested, 80% efficiency, 5 score involvements, 4 clearances, 3 rebound 50s and 4 tackles. They're decent stats, and he was far from our worst today. We need to let him gain more confidence and build on these games. He's already showing a bit this year. Dropping him would be yet another poor selection decision. I'm sick of him being a scape goat on this site.

I understand the resting Brayshaw philosophy.. But there is a bye around the corner and the evidence is pretty clear, the kid is getting better and running out games better than early in year. He is the exact type that gets more out of playing.

How are you fatigued with this - it's not like we have had a great many games in the last few years where we could say that. Honestly, you yourself expected no more than where we are. I was appalled at qtr time and thought here we go again... And then the next two quarters had some of the most enterprising, exciting footy I have seen since 2010 - destroying a good team that was, minutes earlier, destroying us. We all want to win, you don't have to 'apologise' for that, as we don't have to 'apologise' for seeing the progress and pointing it out.

It was the right option for him to handball to a player in space who should have executed the finish better. Gawn kicked it onto the [censored] of a collingwood player when 5m either side were two Melbourne players in the open. Whilst Toumpas could have turned around to look at the option, the slow looping handball he recieved would have made him think pressure was coming so to get it out to a safe in a better position is not at all a mistake. If it were to have been a kick and mark situation then it was completely different. This secondly, was definitely the fault of Lynden Dunn, you dont just turn 180 and handpass it unless there is a call from someone, so he turned to give it to someone he assumed was in space. Lynden Dunn has a habit of calling for the ball when he is in a poor position or covered by the opposition without really understanding that he is not in space. I dont think anyone can be critical of Toumpas game today, it was a great game, not only in terms of finding the football, but his unrewarded running and 21 pressure acts (which he often gets questioned for) was pretty outstanding. I will say that at times he seems panicked with the football, but that is because he looks to give off the quick option, this will get better as he realises he has more time on his hands than he thinks.

There were some really good signs from yesterday..... Toumpas best game by some margin. Yes, he still gets the heebeejeebies, but there was more elite level decision making and ball use than not. Dropping him when he's on an upward trajectory would be mindless. It was Watts most physically assured game for the club. He was great in traffic, and for the first time started using his size and body. Turning point? What did Fitz do wrong other than the tunnel ball? If I wasn't a Melb supporter it would be pretty funny. The football world also saw Angus Brayshaw yesterday. He is a double sided, one touch, 18 year old one, 10 game superstar with no fear and a huge tank. Excited much? Out: Vanders (inj.) In: Tyson.

Was at the game yesterday with my Collingwood son and after red eye flight back to Perth I thought we both came away relatively happy with yesterdays result. and before you start Wyl no I don't have lower standards than you. Lot to like from yesterdays game and nothing in yesterdays result which can't be ironed out as confidence and experience in the game grows. I could almost guarantee Roosy didn't tell the players to just bomb the ball into our forward 50m and clearly if it was to be a tactic then the forwards would have been told to attack the contest with ferocity or a forward would have been told to peel off and man up on Oxley. So it's one or the other which wasn't carried out by the players. The boys will become more composed and back themselves to take the game on and back themselves to start hitting targets inside 50 rather than bombing it in. We will commit a lot less turnovers and sure even yesterday if we halved the turnovers we win the game. Lot to like about our younger players who stood up as others have said the likes of M Jones, Bail, Mckenzie, Terlich etc are being replaced by better players and I can finally see we are heading somewhere as a team. Without dwelling on the past this is where we should have been around 2012 but we made such a hash of the rebuild we have had to start again. Really struggling to think of a player we have brought in under the new FD who hasn't shown potential or made some impact. Brayshaw - just a footballer and a competitive beast, has the desire to run hard put his body on the line and just makes smart decisions Viney - as above without the bigger size but a born leader just going to continue to develop TMac - absolute stinker early and got pants by a player who when he is on is unstoppable, came into it a bit more when moved but whilst his confidence was down he never shirked the issue, Seen enough of him to know he will make it Hogan - though he was good early whenever the ball went in and gave strong contest, would have liked to see him give away a free kick in the second half to make Oxley second guess himself. Still has really good work rate but very little impact. No worries with him he is a club changer and we just have to keep him above everything else Vandenburg - love him so strong at the clearances and thought it effected us when he went down Toumpas - good day still had a few skill errors but learning to understand he belongs and did a fantastic job on Sidebottom Fitzy - made an absolute howler and those calling for his head are amplifying that, got the better of White through the day and IMO moving forward wont be best 22 but is certainly going to provide decent depth for our defenders Gawn - destroyed Grundy at the tap outs and was vital at us taking control at the clearances and through the middle. Needs to work on that tank and impose himself around the ground, Grundy was far more influential around the ground, but the blueprint is there and plenty to work with Watts - was good yesterday by just being honest, didn't like the dropped mark which resulted in an end to end goal but play like that every week Jack that is all we ask After the 2010 cleanout we are now getting the right balance between older and younger players on the list and our players have the right environment to develop as other clubs have had.

As soon as he was drafted, I predicted that this kid would Captain the club and that he would be our first 600 gamer. Now that I've actually seen him play, I feel I was quite conservative in my initial assessment. In short, he's just got it.

I only watched the third quarter and bits and pieces of the others. I live overseas and thus had work, this really is one day on the calendar where I really miss living in Australia. 1. Gus was absolutely scintillating in that third quarter and was apparently just as good in the second? Boy oh boy. Thanks Chip! 2. I laughed when Fitzy kicked a regulation goal and Bruce exclaimed "I can see him playing 150 games of AFL." Nek minnit, tunnel ball. I like Fitzy but 150 is a lot of games. He has a long way to go. He beat Jesse White though. 3. I'm pretty sure 21 touches is a career high for Toumpas. Yeah he is a bit weak in the contest and yeah he should take the game on a bit more, but he's improving. His first kick, most players would have kicked it out on the full. But it was pinpoint. Not many players can do that. I can see a bit to work with. 4. Travis Cloke. How the heck does he manage to kick 7.0? I swear to God he did the exact same thing to us a few years back (on Rivers). And Tarrant before him. What is it with wayward Collingwood forwards killing us every [censored] time. 5. Bernie Vince is one of the most underrated players in the competition. Gets the ball, attacks the ball, tags, kicks goals. Good clubman. What's not to love? Thanks Col!

haha wow! This is by far the worst post on here I have seen for a long time.

From the looks of your posts since the game, your view appears to be if we'd simply put Cross on Oxley and Toumpas hadn't have handpassed to Gawn that one time, we'd have won. You've blown the Toumpas thing completely and horrendously disproportionately out of the water (especially given the gravity of some of the other mistakes made by senior players) whilst the Oxley thing was important, but not as decisive as the skill errors. On what basis do you think St Kilda has had a better season so far than us? They've beaten GC, WB and Brisbane. We've beaten GC (same), WB (same) and Richmond (better than Brisbane). Their percentage is 6.1% better than ours. That may be because we've played Fremantle, Sydney and Port Adelaide whilst they've played Essendon, Carlton and West Coast in the only three different games so far. In fact, I'm confident if the fixture and percentages were the other way around you'd be saying words to the effect of 'given who we've played, the fact we're only 6.1% in front of St Kilda shows how bad we are'. We've won 16 quarters to their 12 (which includes 6 first quarters to their 3, first quarters at the very least being quarters where the game isn't over yet). If anything, we are tracking evenly, but if there's an argument to be made about one being better than the other, it's in our favour, not theirs.

Among the many reasons why we shouldn't permit drugs in sport is this most compelling one ... If drugs are permitted, then hopeful kids know that they will eventually have to take drugs to have any chance of making it. That will be the norm. And then the drugs arms race, previously confined to elite levels, will move down the food chain to where teens or even younger, will be "pushing the envelope" to get that edge over their peers. It's bad enough that the Essendon 34 took Christ knows what, fed to them by a bunch of shonky operators with little sense of ethics, but who wants to see kids in that situation? Taking unknown substances with unknown health risks because there's no other way to make it to the top. Disgraceful.

And so they should be. St Kilda have had a bette season than Melbourne.Then there's the little stat that the last time we won at Docklands the iPhone hadn't even been invented yet.

Agree with everything except for Jones, he's been gifted enough games and simply isn't good enough. I used to be a fan, but no longer. Give ANB a debut and the green vest.

Toumpas is still a developing player, but he is starting to show some of the things in game that stood out when he was a junior, primarily his hard running and neat foot skills. His contested work is improving, which has to be noted, this was definitely not a strength when he was drafted. I think the majority of his possessions were contested on Monday. Also his composure under pressure was an issue at times as a junior, and is clearly something he needs to continue to work on. Defensive running and positioning is generally an area all draftees need to improve on. Jimmy’s virtually a second year player after numerous injuries, but I’m satisfied that we are seeing some of his strong points coming out in games. I can see the development in his game. He will make errors, but I believe that the best place for him to learn is on the field. He certainly should have learned plenty from yesterday’s game.

It's a credit to him that he has lifted the expectation in ten games to the point where being beaten is an aberration...

people can't see Toumpas but for his #4 Draft pick, any other player with the same game (except for Watts) would be praised for "developing fine".

Still can't believe the way he tackles, those skinny arms just don't look as if they should be able to hang on, but they do. I wonder what he'll be like when he's in a man's rig and not a boy's. He's significantly improved in the 10 games he's played, too. Super excited and happy with this player.

I reckon we really miss Salem and Kent.

This is actually pretty spot on from "Moondog"... http://www.sen.com.au/news/06-15/roos-quick-to-pass-buck-to-players-mooney

Never ever blame the umpires for defeat IMO every thing evens itself out over a game, they make mistakes like players but we don't know what they see, we can guess but we do not know for sure. I saw the Sinclair goal for the out on the full off Tmac, which wasn't a free, I saw us get the free kick inside 50 for Jesse White taking out Howe's legs IMO not a free, I saw us get a free for Hogan's legs being out when one of the Pies players was actually pushed into the contest again IMO not a free thought Dunn was also stiff with the holding free against Cloke right at the death in the 3rd that really killed us but you have to be balanced. We gave them 13 goals from turnovers and there were also times when our players made decisions to try and mark both inside our defensive 50 and also between the arcs when the smarter thing to do was to knock the ball out and start again. Our players will develop this instinct as they become more experienced. We as a team just have to worry about what we can control umpires are always going to make mistakes both ways and we have no control over that, sort out the turnovers and continually do the 1%ers and start again and we will give away a hell of a lot more goals

Matt Jones out please. He tries, but he's not part of the future.

I just hope ANB is quick and fit. We have such a need for speed at half forward, especially against the saints at Etihad. Selection criteria: Are you fit? Are you quick? Can you tackle and chase? Is your name anything other than Rohan Bail or Matt Jones? If you answered yes to the above 4 questions then you can get a game on a half forward flank for Melbourne.

I thought he did more good things than bad MC. His ruckwork was exceptional at times and his positioning seemed pretty good. FWIW, I think Gawn allowed our midifeld to get on top today and while I think you're right about his tank, I reckon he's the long-term option for us and we should continue to throw him in the deep end.

It's just a word, mate. The earth is bipolar.

Vandenberg?? What part of the 13 disposals at half time was quite?

i feel odd

Watts had one of his better games for the season, and in terms of his work in close, one of his best to date. If he can show more of the physicality he showed yesterday, a lot of the noise will die down. It's not a high bar, but it will do. His pace over 20 metres is a weapon he needs to exploit a lot more often. It surprises me everytime he hits the jets just how quick he is for his size. Re Newton, if a a player of his ilk replaces the likes of M Jones on the list as depth, we're moving in the right direction.

What a laugh. First prize for the most ridiculous anti-Watts comment of the year. I'd have thought diving forward away from the guys behind you would be more likely to avoid being clobbered than what he did.

Somewhat harsh considering we had a several defensive errors that just dished the ball up to the opposition...Dunn (usually reliable) and Viney (rusty on the comeback trail) both responsible for goals the other way, but then they are not everyday whipping boys so their blues don't qualify for consideration in Worst Play of the Day. Of course that belongs to Watts even if we can't bag him for failing to tackle any more, and as for slipping through packs like mercury, well we'll forget that too. Yep, Watts gets the Worst Play of the Day award. But then, why even post it. It was always the case. Right?

Right in front of me bb It was coming over his head. At the time I thought he lost sight of it. Unlike others I thought it was lost sight rather than lack of effort and gods knows I have not been big fan Like the Dogs game I thought he was very good yesterday

The (hilariously...) funny thing is - as the French(?) poster above alludes - we win that game if we don't make some of the most laughable mistakes with and without the footy, from seasoned AFL players who should know better (and a couple that wouldn't know better...). But to lump it most of that at the feet of a(nother) scapegoat in Toumpas is unfair. The hardest part of footy is getting it - he is starting to come out of his shell and I like his instincts to spread - we need that.

I agree sue. I walked away from the game disappointed that I didn't the shot of euphoria I'd have gotten from a win, but otherwise I thought it was an entertaining game. I really think that Eeyore pic someone posted the other day really does suit old dee.

It has so many holes that if it was Swiss cheese you'd have to fill the MCG with cheese for it to weigh a kilo.

lets just morph into the Anarchy Football League....

This articles has more holes in logic than the abominations put forward by the blabbering donkey!

I have no problem with how he plays - he breaks our mould, he relieves our inertia. If you have ever played a game of bball with guys who will never drive and just pass around to each other - you put up a terrible 3 and have no chance. HL drives, he 'does something' in a team that struggles to do anything at times. Sometimes he screws up and it is all on him, sometimes he screws up but it is because another player didn't push to get there because he isn't used to a player even trying to get it to him there. I think we can all agree that HL demands more from those up the ground and I am ok with that...

Why Pedo out? Tries his guts out and takes more marks and kicks more goals than Dawes, so why would you swap them?

The thing i love about him, is at this point in time he's a very good player, 10 games in, if he didn't improve one bit, hes still better the 3/4 of the list. A few preseasons into his tank, hes going to be a general for us in the middle! Love him

very very happy with the first 10 games of this kid's career, looks like he's played 100

Toumpas's kicking was at times quite impressive. His decision making amd hand balling to team mates under more pressure than he as frustrating - but what people seemed to miss was how often his opponent was able to double team or have an impact on other contests while he was miles away or how his opponent can take an uncontested mark in the forward 50 while he was ten metres away doing nothing. clearly some people forget about defensive aspects and accountability. Losing vanders hurt the most and it was partly young gus that kept us in the game in the third quarter. thought tom mac got owned by cloke but tough matchup. thought Lumumba was having some sort of allergic reaction in the first half. Massive games for vince, cross, gus and n jones.

Vanders was having a major impact and losing him hurt. lumumba was crazy early on.

Disappointed to have lost, but a decent response after the week before. Same old story though: indecision, turnovers, poor skills/execution - including from some of our better players. Seems like Viney gives away a goal a match with a miskick. But, slowly but surely, there's improvement in there. Let's not forget we only managed 3 goals in this round last year. At the moment though, we just don't have the depth to have players out: Salem, Tyson, maybe Dawes, have the ability to make a difference, but then throw in likely starters like Kent, JKH, Frost, etc., not to mention Petracca and Trengove. Feel that it's those last 4 or 5 players picked who are the difference between being more seriously competitive, and being frustratingly close. Not to mention, those bottom 4 or 5, really expose the 4 or 5 just above them, and then it just all falls in a heap.

Not angry about today at all. The run on we got after being 5 goals down to get in front was awesome. Previously we would have taken our ball and go e home to a 20 goal loss. The pressure that is applied to the ball carrier by thi Collingwood team is where the bar sits - when we equalled that pressure the play went with us. Oxley was great as the plus one. However its not the coach who kicks it directly to the plus one time and time again. The ball needs to move laterally and our inside 50 kickers need to adjust accordingly - they didn't. Making it 7 on 7 in our forward line just would have congested it further and left even more space for Cloke Elliot and Fasolo at the other. Our guys will learn - that was as close to finals type footy and atmosphere that we have seen for a long time and I loved it. We are a couple of players short of where we need to be to be fully competitive against the better sides - petracca may help that, Salem, Kent will. Anyone else that is a good footballer that we get at years end will also.

He's only 10 games into his career, but Gus could very well be the best first round pick we've drafted in years. Definitely deserved the nod this week. I already feel confident whenever he has the ball in hand. EDIT: Just reached the personal milestone of 1000 posts. Cheers to all who put in the hard work that makes this website possible. Go Dees!

I thought Jack Watts was very good today !! Really liked his intensity and possesions put to advantage! Something we sorely don't have enough of! His sensational tackle and goal were inspirational ! Well done young man!