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Wow....You just have to love Demonland...... We have been beaten by a side that has won 6 straight to be unbeaten in the first 6 rounds(A feat not done since we did it in the 50's) We have been beaten by a side that were runners up last year We now play the reining premiers. The wrist slashing here would be quite amusing if it wasn't so tragic. Not one poster here would have predicted that we would have won any of these games before the season started. I also can't believe the glee that posters have with the dropping of Jack Watts. Its like he is responsible for their expectations of him. FCS he was booed when he got his first possession which I find adhorant and ashamed to be a Melbourne supporter.

No it's not. People will claim it is frustration. "I just want him to live up to his natural talent", and " What a waste" and "If Nev jetta and half the he'd be a champ...Watts is wasting his talent" and "There are hundreds of kids gagging for a chance to do half of what Jack gets to do and he doesn't care" and on and on and on. But when you dig half a mil below the surface, all they are saying is " I feel bad/angry/whatever and I blame Jack". Everything else is just empty rationalisations. And then when you see posters like ProDee go on and on and on, then it is pretty bloody obvious that there is more than just some unemotional critique of a player. There is an investment in the effort of bagging the bloke. So why do it? Because it makes them feel better. And when you bag someone repeatedly to make yourself feel better, that makes you a jerk, to put it mildly. Getting off on putting someone else down. It is common, and kind of unremarkable and very human and fairly gutless and pathetic.

....and your perverse delight in bagging him. There are plenty of players who don't make it, or aren't that good. Watts is one and the attention and abuse heaped upon him (for things he probably cannot change) is sick and weird. It says a lot about you. I am sick of the mean, sadistic attitude that you and many others here have about the bloke. You enjoy seeing him fail. You actually enjoy it. And the funny part, the real kicker, is that you question HIS character. Get help.

Was just interviewed on channel 7 about his MND.. It makes me sad to say this but his conditions has gotten really worse and he sounds awful. I was such a big fan of the Reverend that even to this day we played some exciting and daring footy during his era in what was just a yo yo journey. Thought are with the Rev and his family.

Oh how wonderful, Gil and Little sitting together tonight. What a shame you can't rig the outcome at CAS. And Tim Watson, high fiving Hird as he walks past. "Thanks for injecting my son with unknown substances, champion!"

Blame Jack Watts.

Neale Daniher was talking about his Motor Neurone Disease on the half time show. Still seems in great spirits but it's sad to see how the disease has affected him. Absolutely inspiring man. Forever a great MFC figure. Thoughts to his friends and family.

I shall give anyone who requires one, a jolly good flogging.

Back on topic... Hale often seems to have a day out against us. But he has only had one ok game back in the reserves (took one mark - was contested, one goal) after being out for 3 weeks with an adductor problem that he has apparently been struggling with since Christmas. So that's two underdone talls they have coming in this week to add to Schoenmakers who surely has rock bottom confidence after being pantsed by Cameron last week. Forward pressure will be important. With Lewis and Hodge out, we need to shut down Mitchell. I think Cross would be perfect it and if he does the job we will go a long way to winning contested ball and clearances. If we can do that I really believe we are not without a sneaky chance. Good start is a must though. I'd like to see: Bail to play a full game as defensive forward on Burgoyne (or whoever is providing the most rebound if Burgoyne plays on ball). Garland to Gunston. McDonald to Roughead. Matt Jones running with Smith. Salem on Rioli. Grimes to Bruest. I'd love to see Gawn in this week, either in place of Spencer (who I do not rate) or in addition to him. 6 contested marks for casey (11 in total), 19 touches, 22 hitouts and a goal (on the back of 3 goals the week before - though reviews were not super complementary). Named in the best. We are pretty short for this game and I think he could stretch their defence without Lake. Whilst my expectations are low, I'm more optimistic than going into the last two weeks.

You're a real Demonland anomaly Curry. I can't think of another poster in my 12+ years on these footy forums who I swing from wild agreement to wild disagreement with on a daily basis. (Current state: wild agreement.)

This is the one everyone is bemoaning but seemingly not recognising the facts around it. - You accept that Watts is rightfully dropped. Jamar is another, you are not complaining about Spencer replacing him. - You understand that JKH, Jetta, Viney, Frost, Petracca, Trengove and Kent are all injured - You know that Hogan, Stretch and Brayshaw are all in, so we can't be accused of not 'playing the kids' So, given you are bemoaning Bail, MJones and McKenzie being in, you must be suggesting that instead we include 3 of: Pederson, Terlich, Gawn, Riley, Fitzpatrick and Newton Is this really the case you arguing? Haven't RB,MJ and JM been performing better at Casey than this group anyway? How much difference could it possibly make? Add to that the probablr notion that their inclusion is partially to do with Roos finding out who is getting axed at the end of year. The facts of the matter are that we have 7 injured, which is at least 5 too many for our list. Add to that Jamar and Watts playing themselves into the 2s and we have a 22 that in no way resembles the ones we made in the preseason. I don't know why this is an indictment on Roos or a sign that we are not 'heading in the right direction'. It is what it is.

I wouldn't mind playing each team once and then we could just play Carlton for the remaining rounds...

My gf is an unabashed watts fan and I just sent her your post, her response was pretty fair I thought: "Re Demonland.. Yeah what he said!!! People are being big fat jerks! They say they bleed red and blue yet they continually slag off the player who needs their support more than anyone! How can Jack play well if everyone is telling him how sh*t he is all the time!"

The spreadsheet of truth About those injections: For more by Sean Curtain ~ here, here, here and here I'm starting to wonder if this imaginary player really exists and whether the Essendon players who have been painted by many as the "victims" of this saga really care about what was injected into their bodies or whether the truth will ever come out? Can someone remind me why the AFL Tribunal decision was never made public? Wasn't it to protect the names and reputations of the players who at the end of it all were, according to James Hird, found to be "innocent"? So now that the names of the Essendon 34 are in the public domain, what is the non-publication of the decision protecting?

Push buttered toast off the kitchen bench and see which way up it lands

How bad is Rohan Bails disposal ( see what I did there ?)

Despite having many more total possessions, Hawthorn were only even with Western Sydney on contested possessions. Lewis and Hodge were 1 & 2 for effective disposals at Hawthorn, and 2 & 3 for contested possessions. (behind only Wonky Will Langford). In fact, 1/3rd of Hawthorn's contested possessions against Western Sydney were through just 3 players; Langford, Breust and Mitchell. Langford butchers the ball routinely and grotesquely, meaning that at the moment the 'effective contested possessions' job actually falls to just Breust and Mitchell. Bradley Hill (20 disposals, 90% eff, but just 2 contested), Hartung, Duryea, Suckling and Birchall rely on getting loose, and provided a huge share of the drive out of defensive 50 and into the forward 50. I'm beginning to see the logic in Michie, Bail, Grimes and M. Jones. If we can force Hawthorn's 'smooth' midfielders to do everything in a contested situation, without the steady veterans to take charge and control the game, they might just bollocks it all up.

Grimes and Michie were stiff to have been dropped in the first place, Bail and M Jones provide the run we've been lacking, and the outs were probably the clear bottom 4 in terms of impact vs Sydney. I'm not fussed much. We've taken out the bottom 4 from last week, and even though I suspect the four ins won't do much, that's not where this game is going to be won for us. If we're to put in a decent show, it's going to come from improved performances from N Jones, Tyson, Vince, Lumumba, Dawes, Howe, Dunn, Garland etc. If our core are at their best, who knows, but I know for sure that if they're all down on input, then M Jones, Bail, Michie and Grimes could have the games of their lives, we're not going to be close when the final siren sounds.

It is clear what the coaching staff saw as the major issue we had last week, and it's also clear that they are trying to fix it. Run, especially forward of the ball. We lack running ability. We lacked it last week and we brought in 4 hard running players that can spread and provide an option. This has especially been the case since Kent hurt himself, as we lack a lot of pace forward of the footy. It means that we can't find easy targets forward of the ball and every goal we get has to be fought for relentlessly. Hawthorn are a really good running team. If we take a team that provides the lacklustre run that we showed last week, then we will be smashed. Running is more important than most people think. A lot of posters only see errors, but never consider the benefits of the rest of their game because they only follow the ball.

I don't get why everyone wants to move Salem. He is the perfect half back runner with speed and skill. Yes definitely throw him into the middle for a few centre clearances but he is very valuable currently running off half back.

Roid rage... or something similar?

I'm barracking for North by process of elimination.

The body might be failing but gee the spirit is still Strong! Great interview with Tim in that respect.

Are you related to HH?

In true Demonland style, I will find a reason to complain about our performance.

Watch the replay and masturbate furiously. But it wont happen

Drink myself into oblivion, although that's also the plan if we lose

watch the replay again and again

TimD I do agree that the Watts' discussion has gone too far. You'll note I've only posted 3 or 4 times in this thread and mentioned him once. The discussion is done and dusted. He is what he is and it won't be changing. I've been consistent in my views for years, but agree that now's the time to leave it alone. Nothing else 'needs' to be said. It's all been said. Contrary to your views, I get no pleasure from seeing him dropped or ridiculed. I fully understand why some may think I do, but I don't. It really is terribly unfair the scrutiny he cops compared to others. Sam Day, pick 2, was dropped earlier this year and not a word is said. Gumbleton, pick 2, is out of the game. So are countless others, but all anyone wants to talk about is Watts. Earlier I went on to News.com.au while checking on my footy tips and low and behold they have a photo of Watts wearing the pink jumper from the breast cancer match. I know it's a recent photo, but I'm convinced there's perverse pleasure in showing him in a Dees jumper that's pink. So, thanks for the character assassination, but you're wrong. I note that I'm rarely tackled about my views on his footy, more my own personal motivations. But hey, you get applauded (liked) for your comments, so you must be doing something OK. EDIT: And I've never booed Watts at the football and never will. I won't lie and say I've never bagged him, as I have, but the booing is nonsense.

can we use this to complain about people who complain about jack watts?

I go every week, including to some interstate games and it frustrates the hell out of me when some 'supporters' find any excuse under the sun not to attend a game. It's pathetic. Particularly if they have the money. And whilst I agree with the rest of your post, LDVC, the players earn a bloody good wage and should turn up irrespective of whether the supporters do. It's their job.

Bull [censored]!! No one enjoys seeing Watts fail (no Melbourne supporters anyway). We are all just so frustrated that he has the talent but not the application - its all in his head, the best thing he could probably do is go on a "trip" (psychedelic style) to find himself and strengthen his mindset. I've never seen anyone so weak minded play for the MFC and possibly the AFL.

It does [censored] me off the way the media hacks go out of their way to refer to Watts as the 'number 1 draft pick' in their team reports. FFS, it's coming up 7 years since he was drafted, he's clearly not lived up to a lot of people's expectations and is not hard enough for today's game. Please, just report it as Watts dropped you muppets.

The helmet would reduce the force to your head though and thereby reduce any brain 'movement'. The helmet would compress slightly on impact and increase the time for which the force acts on the player's head. This creates a smaller average force.

I'd like to see Howe go forward again and Grimes can adequately play his back-line 'intercept' role. Neither have been great, but it's worth a try. Lord knows I'm no fan of some of these 'ins', but I fail to see how Bail, Jones and Mitchie for Pedersen, Watts, Newton and Kennedy-Harris overly weakens us. I like Newton, but the other 3 have been borderline hopeless. The 'ins' will at least double the possession tally of the 'outs'. And it's not as though the 'outs' don't give it back too. I can't quite understand the angst.

Dunstall wore one for a few years after Earl Spalding fractured his skull accidentally. It didnt work for Jason either he has been speaking jibberish since he retired.

Interesting... And how do you think the game will go?

I get the feeling that it is for his (Watts') sanity that Roos has dropped him this week. Roos is probably sick of Watts being the target of supporters' vitriole almost from the moment he sets foot on the field. Even in the first round of the season against the Suns, he was copping a bagging every time he went near the ball; so it's not as if the supporter attitude is built on poor performances this season... it seems to have become a bit of a "game" amongst supporters (and I use that term very loosely) to see who can come up with the wittiest/most offensive barb. Confidence is a funny thing, but I get the feeling that when you are the target of constant scrutiny by the media and abuse from your own supporters, it's something that's pretty hard to maintain, One thing in Watts favour is that at least he is out there playing the game... unlike most of his critics who in reality, would probably be lucky to be picked in a bottom division side in their local district comp.

Nah... he will either make it or not - it ain't about the jumper he is wearing

There's a lot of sad people on here who don't like their own lives, it makes them feel better.

Of course it was not considered The tribunal was set up to not consider it Whilst it would definitely be in the interests of "the integrity of the game" (OMG I have always laughed whenever Vlad used that term, and all the more so now) to have it determined, but it was not in the interests of EFC nor of the powers at the AFL, so it wasn't considered.

Yeah, I think missing Jetta and Viney in particular will hurt us given the need to created contested situations and not let Hawthorn move freely. Isn't it fascinating to see people basically abandoning the club to sulk for a week because a few players they've decided they don't like are getting a game? Seems like a few people here see themselves as the stars of the club...

Apologies in advance if this has been posted elsewhere, but I've caught up with some viewing of AFL360 on Fox Sports and find myself in disbelief that after a 2 year investigation - one that was considered "comprehensive" by Hird - that the tribunal never considered the question of whether they were given TB4: - From AFL 360 Unbelievable that the question wasn't even considered. All in sundry would have thought that would be top of the list to consider, given the magnitude of this saga, and integral to the whole investigation.

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2015-05-14/dawes-aims-to-expose-frawley-fitness “He’s [Frawley's] missed about a month of footy, so he’s going to be vulnerable, in terms [of his match fitness],” Dawes said “I imagine he’ll go to Jesse Hogan, [with] him being the No.1 forward, but if he comes to me, that’s certainly what I’ll be trying and do – work him around and try to exploit his lack of match fitness.”

Every Essendon official and supporter should not leave home without one of these

Another inexplicable selection debacle. Who is on the selection panel? Do they watch the team play? What about the opposition? 1. Just the one ruckman is a mistake. Pedersen gave nothing up forward, but he is capable of playing back and releasing Dunn or Howe forward (which should have happened last week). Dawes is not capable of rucking and Hogan is too big a risk. Never mind the effect on our forward line, particularly with Watts out, of removing one of our few marking targets. We are in a world of trouble if any one of our key defenders or forwards is injured this week, let alone Spencer. 2. Where are the goals coming from? Watts and Newton are 3rd and 4th on our goalkicking list, and JKH is capable as well. Even Gawn would have added something to the mix. Expect to see five goals or less this week. 3. Playing Watts as the sub last week was ridiculous, and I assume his omission this week is an admission of this. Not sure what more he could have done last week, but I would have much preferred to see him playing a full game at Casey and come back, rather than effectively wasting a week. 4. Revolving door selection policies as we have seen with Grimes, Michie and McKenzie in recent weeks are clear signs that the selectors / coaches have no idea what they are doing. Grimes performed as expected against Freo, was dropped for no clear reason, performed as expected in the VFL, and now is back in. What has changed in the past week? 5. The absence of Bail & Matt Jones from our round one team was a sign that we were heading in the right direction. Six weeks later they are back in the side. I can't see that we have improved one iota when these guys, plus McKenzie, are still in the mix. If Hawthorn are serious this week, we won't get within 90 points.

shhhhh!!!! Im sure the records are all but in plain sight in thinking about it. What is lacking is any ability to subpoena them. Im sure DC and anyone else with IT experience will vouch for this... Most users ( ppl using a pc/laptop ) have no real idea what theyre doing beyond the basics... thats why they have IT guys to come in , set things, up , do updates, do recoveries etc etc etc. Very few users clean up their files etc. Often anything ever created , saved, copied on a laptop is invariably still there in some form until the day it gets 'upgraded". I firmly believe the records have always existed because they needed to in order for a program such as this to run. Yes Martha, even the nasty people need methods, checks and balances etc. If we follow the ruse as deployed by Essendon all they ever said was THEY didnt have records and maybe they dont,.Given the clandestine nature of the whole mess , noting it was done very 3rd party, off -site and by persons operating in shadows ( all but ) there probably were NO records kept in any mammer at windy hill. Many of the texts between Golden Boy and Donks etc suggest Hird worked on the basis of reporting. i.e Donk would relay the latest "findings" etc Hird has set up his plausible deniability and its this he has always run with. He doesnt have recrods, there were no records at Essendon. Probably true They would be and have always been with what ever clinician was overseeing the jabbings at wherever they were done. Its more than probable also that its unlikely that they were entered on a spreadsheet. The reporting may have been in this format but the input would be laborius and hamfisted. If I were part of the IT for this lot it wold have been done on a DATABASE... If these mobs were just running the Office suite its more than likely all this info exists in an "ACCESS" database. Would have been well suited to it . Granted , if a user had some idea of what they were doing they could set this up. Once you have your head around fields and forms etc , you can do it. London to a brick that database stil exists , somewhere, but its a somewhere that ASADA etc were never allowed to look. Never at Essendon

What have GWS done to be punished so cruelly?

!00%... I am not sure why some posters even go to the games. Do I think our talent is anywhere near Hawthorns ? No. Have I seen over the last two seasons that we can bring effort to a game and push opposition ? Yes. Hawthorn was scratchy last week. We weren't much chop ( improved late in the game). If I went to the game with the attitude that we are going to be putrid, I wouldn't bother going. I go with the attitude that we will bring our best to the game and really push Hawthorn. Will I ultimately end up disappointed - probably but I just can't go to a game thinking we are going to get hammered - I might as well just stay home.

how to say this nicely FCUK YOU HAWTHORN !!!! there