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Fine moring this morning Everybody on the track except Hunt, Petracca, Trengove Lots of stoppage drills with more and less defenders again Lots of ball movement drills again, with more and less defenders Match simulation, not split into AFL or Casey, just three teams McCartney was still working with Max King ad Max Gawn when everybody else had left, including me Amusing bit at the start, Shannon Byrnes produced a Dallas Cowboys footy helmet for Nev Jetta to wear after three belts to the head in consecutive weeks, wore it on warm up lap until he spotted the cameras Pics on Twitter Demonpk Any questions feel free

All the best to Alex Neal Bullen this weekend.

ladies and gentlemen....I present ...the new whipping boy.....Chris Dawes !!!

The eagles have lost Brown and mackenzie for the season, Collingwood lost sidebottom for 8 weeks, North lost dal santo for 8-12 weeks...... get over it ppl! This is why our club is so pi$$ weak, we always have a sad anytime one player gets injured. It's football! We will get key injuries all the time! Great opportunity for Michie to come in and cement a spot!

We still have the smallest injury list in the league. Disappointed for Viney but some of the reactions on here are way over the top. It's also a good chance for Brayshaw to step up in his absence.

I think we're too harsh on him. Ultimately he was drafted as a 2nd forward next to Clark. Clark and Dawes in the forward line would have been like Dawes and Cloak: Dawes could have presented further up the ground, created a contest, and allowed us to win more contested and stoppage footy around the ground. Ultimately that never eventuated and for 90% of Dawes' career at the club, he has been the No.1 target. Even with Hogan now who is still learning the game, Dawes is still often the No.1 target. He is an important player simply because of his work effort and capacity to get to and demand the contest. The delivery is not great, and our stoppage work is horrendous. Expecting him to kick bags is futile. He is at best a 2nd forward, but he is mostly there as a big body and nothing more.

It is a training thread. I can't understand why you can recognise this.

You must have missed the bit where Viney has a broken leg and is out for 426.

early baroque ? You know what they say - if it ain't baroque, don't fix it.

A number of interesting things there. Im not actually personally 100% convinced that ASADA will/would appeal. Well not with the thinking it will actually get very far. It may need to as some sort of 'face' thing. who knows. It might be playing a clever counter ploy of 'protesting too much " in a fashion whilst all along knowing Uncle WADA will carry the can and call in the Cavalry.Either way WADA doesnt get its chance ASADAS 21 days is up The difference between how WADA/CAS might view something as opposed how the AFL tribunal dealt with the suppositions ASADA presented ought to go to whats accepted and whats not on the basis of the evidence. Keep in mind WADA can bring in new evidence etc The CAS might well give a different weight and hence outcome to particular aspects. Also what I thought interesting is that under the code only INTENT need be established but this for what ever reason was not the path the AFL took. Here in lays subtle differences. The AFL Tribunal , whilst under the guidance of ASADA in terms of adherence to codes actually ran do a difference one. it was run as per the AFL's own Anti Doping Code and the facility it gives for hearings. WADA will front the CAS where WADA code is spoken , understood and adhered to. Quoting the Social Litigator http://sociallitigator.com/2015/04/03/a-question-of-proof-might-an-asada-appeal-have-legs/ "What vexed the Tribunal apparently came down to this: Those involved thought they were buying, distributing, compounding and dispensing Thymosin Beta-4 (or ‘TB4’). However, the Tribunal could not be satisfied the substance was, in fact, TB4" they did however feel comfortable about : * Shane Charter bought what he believed to be TB4 and arranged to have it sent to chemist Nima Alavi; * Mr Alavi believed he then compounded TB4; * Mr Alavi dispensed 26 vials of a substance he believed to be TB4 to Stephen Dank; * Correspondence between Mr Alavi and Mr Dank regarding “thymosin” refers to TB4; * Mr Alavi’s lab technician compounded 15 vials of a substance she believed to be TB4 for Mr Dank; Required to prove this circumstantial case were the following matters: 1* TB4 was procured from sources in China; and 2* TB4 was obtained by Mr Alavi, compounded and provided to Mr Dank in his capacity as Sports Scientist at Essendon; and 3* TB4 was obtained by Mr Alavi, compounded and provided to Mr Dank in his capacity as Sports Scientist at Essendon; and 4* Mr Dank administered TB4 to each Player. The Tribunal reportedly did not consider 3.. This is because it was not comfortably satisfied by 1. and 2. For the Tribunal, belief did not translate into fact. What then was the substance administered to each player? Circumstantial cases rely on inference. Here, the Tribunal faced a fork in the road. The Tribunal could have inferred that because: the substance was not Thymousin A1; and it was satisfied the key protagonists involved in administering the product to players all thought they were using the prohibited substance TB4, then the substance was – to their comfortable satisfaction – TB4. Instead, rather than turning left, the Tribunal turned right, onto the road where belief does not offer sufficient proof. Presumably, the only sufficient proof would have been scientific proof. If on the other hand you are inclined to believe that the substance was indeed TB4 and that it was intended to inject the players with this as it matched the annecdoctal evidence of players ( some ) as well as known protocols for delivery of this substance together with the suggestion that it would not have been anything other than TB4 because Thymosin was always discussed and Thymodulin needs neither injection nor compounding then you would probably turn left not right as the Tribunal did. So it seems the tribunal applied one set of reasonings to part of the submission and another to other parts. Now what Red says is that they are entitled to do so. What some, like WJ, suggest is theres no consistency to this..its skewed. When things lack consistency theres often a reason. In judical land its imperative that all thigs seem squeaky clean. this is done by the separation of those judging from those with vested interests. The AFL is nothing if not an entirely self-interested beast. The Tribunal is and of the AFL. How can you possibly guarantee no contamination when its all done in-house, even with ring-ins !! Who set the rules of the Tribunal, who outlined the scope and who briefed the bench ? quack !

So progressive they omitted spelling?

Seriously!? Has directed some dead set classics - The Shining, Full Metal Jacket, Dr Strangelove, 2001 A space odyssey, Lolita... Respect!

Ins: Outs: FB: Jetta - Dunn - Garland HB: Salem - McD - Harry.L C: Viney - N.Jones - Vince HF: Watts - Dawes - Kent FF: Garlett - Hogan - Frost R: Jamar - Cross - Tyson I: Howe - Brayshaw - Newton S: VanderBerg Match Ups: Jetta - Betts Dunn - Walker McDonald - Jenkins Garland - Lynch Viney - Danger Cross - Sloane Tyson - Douglas I actually think our backs match up really well with their forwards. Jetta and Betts will be a cracker, Dunn is the perfect size for Walker and Garland/Lynch will be interesting. We need a heap from J-man and Frost to stop their mids getting first use. I think it will be closer than people are saying...

...by 187 points :-)

I disagree... reading that, it certainly appears that the AFL tribunal are being deliberately obstructive.

I saw this on Facebook and considerate an interesting read. For those of us that don't have Facebook i have added the article below and the link at the bottom. It’s very early on, but it usually only takes a year or two to find the 20 best prospects. The 2013 draft may be the best draft since 2008 and should eventually challenge the 2001 draft. I’ve ranked the first 30 picks and separated them into several categories: potential is factored into the rankings, with some consideration into their performances so far. NB – This is a rankings lists, not a ‘who would have been taken where’ if the draft was redone. Haven’t had enough of a run yet: 30. Darcy Lang – The 2013 Geelong Falcons team was arguably the best TAC Cup team to not win a premiership. Lang’s injury troubles made him a hidden gem, and the fact that the Cats used pick 15 on him shows how much trust they have in him. A ball winner who can uses the ball supremely, Lang will take a little while to push into the team’s best 22. Against the Hawks he seemed to always find himself in space and showed complete composure. It’s that ability to spot up a target under pressure that is his best asset. 29. James Sicily – The ‘best contested mark for his size’ category could be hotly debated for the 2013 draft class. Ben Lennon and Jack Billings have incredible marking abilities, but Sicily is the type of player who could re-define player roles through his incredible leap. Sicily has the potential to kick 40 or 50 goals in an AFL season, but his thin frame will take a while to develop. 28. Blake Acres – Acres put together a few games last year, but it’s still tough to figure out what kind of player he will be. He looks to have outside class, and the Saints will love his size. His lack of consistency and form on paper concerns me: he’d be my pick for a potential bust, with his injury history particularly troubling. 27. Cam McCarthy – I’ll admit it, I wasn’t sold on McCarthy in his draft year. His goal kicking seemed a little off and he didn’t look like he had the skills to dominate at AFL level. His marking was exceptional as an 18 year old and he had a long frame, but he seemed more likely to become a Tyrone Vickery type than a genuine star. However, his performance against Essendon in the NAB Challenge (despite how weak they were) really showcased his improvement in his goal kicking, his running patterns and strength, as did his game against St Kilda on the weekend. McCarthy could shoot up this list with Tom Boyd now at the Dogs. Injured prospects: 26. Matthew Scharenberg – Unlike Acres, Scharenberg had really shown his worth at TAC Cup level, and could have went as high as pick three had he not gotten injured. He’s got the ability to win enough footy at senior level and his body type fits the prototypical tall midfielder. He just needs to get on the park and find where his best footy is. 25. Nathan Freeman – Freeman has the potential to break out as a top five contender. His speed is frightening, while his offensive game is elite and well-rounded. He can kick goals, he breaks lines and he looks for the best option every time. Freeman is not only a great kick and athlete, but a strong bodied midfielder who tackles ferociously and reads the game well. He’s got all the makings of a star – he just needs some luck on the injury front. Great value: 24. Sam Lloyd – He’s shown quite a bit at AFL level, but the big question is in regards to how high his ceiling is. Lloyd finds enough of the football to be effective and kick goals, but that seems to be the only string to his bow at this stage. He was a great find for the Tigers and should continue to become a more rounded forward. 23. Zak Jones – There’s no one angrier and tougher in this draft class than Zak Jones. At best, Jones could be a wonderful half back, yet he probably doesn’t quite have that extra level that someone like Jarman Impey has. Jones is a very solid kick and he’s accountable defensively, but he doesn’t have as much offensive firepower as the top-line half backs do. The worst case scenario is that he becomes the heart and soul of the footy club as the unsung lockdown hero. 22. Darcy Gardiner – The best key defender in the draft class hasn’t disappointed at all for the Lions. They drafted a known quantity: he can keep any forward quiet, but don’t ask him for much more. He doesn’t need to do more, as he has Dan McStay (if they use him down back) and Tom Cutler who can provide rebound as tall backmen. 21. Mitch Honeychurch – Perhaps one of the most damaging players of the class of 2013, Honeychurch cannot be disregarded due to his height. He does everything you want a half forward/midfielder to do. He can kick a bag of goals, he finds plenty of the ball (all on the outside mind you) and his kicking is precise. With the Dogs looking towards the Port Adelaide goal-kicking spread model, Honeychurch is an invaluable piece moving forward. Great seasons, but should be overtaken by those with another gear: 20. Jay Kennedy-Harris – The former Oakleigh captain was someone I rated really highly in 2013. His defensive effort, speed, skill and motor were all astonishing. He could play anywhere on the field and his size didn’t matter. For Kennedy-Harris, it’s hard to see where the improvement will come from, as he seems to have all the small forward boxes ticked. It’s hard for a player of his size to suddenly develop an inside midfielder’s game, so he doesn’t quite have the potential of a Lewis Taylor. He looks to be a really solid player who could be an excellent small forward. 19. Patrick Ambrose – On exposed form, he’s probably in the top five so far alongside Luke McDonald, Marcus Bontempelli, Lewis Taylor and Tom Langdon. He’s turning 23 this year and averaged 11 disposals, three tackles and kicked 13 goals in 16 games as a medium forward. His potential isn’t as high as someone like Ben Lennon – who plays a similar role – but don’t count on Ambrose simply to get overtaken due to his age. 18. Tom Langdon – Langdon missed out on the draft in 2012 because recruiters thought he was limited. He came back in 2013 and was a standout, but still was a late pick because he wasn’t a great kick. Langdon’s first AFL season was consistent and really promising. He’s still not a smooth ball mover, but he’s an accountable, courageous defender who can find the ball. He doesn’t have the potential of a Luke McDonald, but Langdon looks like he could carve out a 150 game career. Got another gear: 17. Patrick Cripps – Pick 13 felt really high for Cripps. A big bodied midfielder who wasn’t that dominant? It seemed like there were 10 better options for the Blues, but Shane Rogers deserves credit, as Cripps has morphed into a fine player. He’s showed he’s capable of racking up the ball in the reserves, and his kicking has become much better than expected. Mick Malthouse is trying to turn him into a goal-kicking midfielder which is surprising, as he never seemed to have this many strings to his bow. Cripps should bolt up the list if he gets a lot of games this year. 16. Dom Sheed – A no-risk, solid reward investment in the Eagles eyes. Sheed won the Larke medal despite missing a lot of the National Championships, as his dominance was unfathomable. He seems to be underrated because he’s a pure inside midfielder: people seem to forget he’s got other skills. He kicked four goals against Vic Country, and his decision making is supreme. He’s got the skill set of a young Sam Mitchell, a player who was always knocked for not being a good kick, until the media realised about two years too late that he was dual sided and a supreme kick. Sheed’s got the base to become a Mitchell-type player. 15. Jarman Impey – TAC Cup Impey and AFL Impey are two different beasts. TAC Cup Impey was a highlight reel match winner: against the Rebels, he was best on ground with four goals, three behinds, 26 touches, 11 handball receives, eight marks (three were contested) and three tackles. He played anywhere on the ground and torched whoever he wanted with his speed, strength and goal kicking ability. But as soon as Port drafted him, they turned him into a complete lockdown player. He wasn’t given the opportunity to show off his flair, and you could be forgiven if you were a Port fan and thinking that this guy is the next Steve Morris. Impey has all the skills now to become one of the best two-way players for the best team in the competition. He could easily become a top ten contender if Port lets him play freely. 14. Matt Crouch – First, nobody wanted to trade for the rights to Matt Crouch in the GWS mini-draft. Then, after averaging 38 disposals in the TAC Cup, he slid to Adelaide. No matter how dominant he is, people disregard Crouch because he is a poor kick. However, he finds the ball like no other, while his vision to find people with darting handballs makes his teammates better. He tackles, works so hard and he’s got the ability to translate these skills into the AFL. If his kicking gets even slightly better, he’s a good shot to break into the top ten. 13. Billy Hartung – Athletically, Hartung is the most gifted small midfielder to come through in a while. His endurance is phenomenal, and the combination with his speed makes makes him a perfect wingman for the Hawks. Hartung showcased those two assets and his great kicking last year in limited glimpses, but he’s got plenty of other tricks that are yet to come out. Hartung is an accumulator, and despite being pigeonholed as an outside midfielder, he doesn’t mind getting his own footy. He can impact the scoreboard and he’s an on-field leader. He’s got the kind of winner’s mindset that might come across as arrogant to some, but he’s just so intent on being successful. 12. Ben Lennon – This might surprise some people, especially with Lennon’s mediocre 2014, but he has the tools to become a dynamic player at AFL level. Lennon is the prototypical midfielder. Large frame? Tick. Strong overhead marking ability? Got it. Ability to use both feet to a high standard? Absolutely. Can he play in just about any role? No doubt about it. I hopped on the Lennon bandwagon straight away, knowing he had a massive ceiling, but it was clear that he hadn’t quite figured out how to have an impact in every game. In fact, I rated Lennon much higher than his former Northern Knights team mate Marcus Bontempelli in their draft years. Having said that, Bontempelli seemed to only have his incredible games when I wasn’t at the Knights games. 11. Luke McDonald – McDonald played 22 games last year and he’s the most promising player on North’s list, yet he might not even be in their best 22 this year. McDonald is a lethal kick and he’s got a strong body. He looks to be a very solid choice as a defender, but I wasn’t sold on him as a midfielder. He doesn’t win a lot of his own ball, but with his frame, he could if he wanted to. The potential for him to become both an inside and outside player is there, and his average of just under 17 disposals in his first year was phenomenal. He’s not playing to his athletic strengths yet, which hurts his case as a top ten contender. For someone with decent speed, he only took four bounces for the whole of 2014. He also only averaged five contested possessions last year, but with that 189cm 85kg frame, he should be going in a lot harder, especially with his courage. Top ten contenders: 10. Zach Merrett – The Bombers lost Stewart Crameri, but picked up Merrett with the compensation pick. On exposed form, Merrett had the most encouraging season of any rookie last year. No, he didn’t have the numbers that Bontempelli, Dunstan or Taylor had. However, he was able to string together 20 games with remarkable consistency. The most impressive part was that he played off a half forward flank for the entire year: a spot where young midfielders often struggle to have an impact in every game. Merrett was able to keep out other midfielders who have had plenty more experience in a particularly strong squad. Merrett has wonderful composure, a high football IQ and he was able to not only deliver to the key forwards, but also expand on his own scoring ability – something he didn’t do well at TAC Cup level. 9. Luke Dunstan – Many have been quick to write off Dunstan due to his perceived low ceiling. He is wrongly judged as a player who has already hit his peak. Yes, his body is stronger than most at his age and yes he is an instant-impact inside midfielder. However, he is already an outstanding leader, explosive around contests and he has the ability to hit the scoreboard. Comparisons to Dustin Martin aren’t too far off, but he’s probably not as good a mark or an athlete as Martin. However, a Jobe Watson type role isn’t too far of a stretch: his kicking is decent, he’s an accumulator, has a strong body, can go forward and he’ll bleed for his club. 8. Lewis Taylor – I hate when clubs ignore talent over size. Taylor should have been between pick 8-15 in the draft, yet he slid to the late 20s. Taylor has every skill necessary – speed, endurance, great kicking, goal sense, finding the football and tackling. Winning the NAB Rising Star was never a surprise. He was always going to be solid as a first year player, but he’s probably a peg above where I thought he’d be at this stage. Taylor still has plenty of upside and there seems to be no real issue for him. His game suits his size, so it doesn’t matter that he is less than 180cm. Taylor is the kind of guy who can get 25 disposals and a goal each and every week in his prime. 7. Kade Kolodjashnij – ‘KK’ is an intriguing prospect. Of all the players on this list, he’s the only one who I find it hard to see what he will develop into. As an 18 year old, he looked like he was just an excellent half back who had great foot skills. I queried his ability to find the ball: naturally, he then managed to have a 38 disposal game for Tasmania. In 2014 he averaged 17.1 disposals and showed in spurts that he could tackle and get some inside 50s. However, there would be other games where he wouldn’t tackle at all and couldn’t break free and get forward. I’m not sure whether he will transition into a midfielder, but his skill set is too good for him to be a half back flanker. We don’t know what he’s like when he gets tagged. He’s probably the hardest player to rank despite having great consistency. 6. Josh Kelly – I think the Dees got this one right. I’m not sure Josh Kelly is going to be a top five player in this draft, and picking up Christian Salem and Dom Tyson for Kelly might be wonderful value (that’s if the Dees can keep developing them). Kelly is exactly what we think he is. He hits targets with his kicks and I think he could become one of the best kicks under pressure in the league. However, Kelly is always going to be an outside player. His frame is still very skinny, but what’s more important is that he is going to struggle to put on weight. His potential to be Ben Cousins MK II rests on that ability to put on the weight. Cousins was only 79kgs at his peak, but he was ripped. I’m not sure Kelly could ever reach that Cousins level, despite being an insanely good athlete and hard worker. One positive for Kelly that I didn’t see coming is his ability to go forward, with his 13 goals in 18 games last year an incredible result. 5. James Aish – I can’t believe Aish is ‘only’ at number five. Essentially, Aish does everything Kelly does, but he also wins his own contested ball and tackles hard every week. Aish missed a sizable chunk of his draft year, and if he didn’t, he would have certainly been a top three pick. I think Aish needs to trust his kicking a bit more. He always hits targets, but his kick to handball ratio was exactly 1:1 last year. Aish was expected to show his talent in flashes last year, but somehow he showed remarkable consistency and an ability to find his own ball on the inside and the outside. Aish ranked first in total contested possessions for rookies last year and he also came in third for total uncontested possessions among first years. Incredible. Pushing for top spot: 4. Jack Billings – Billings is a really rare player. His peak could be Nathan Fyfe, albeit with a wonderful kick. Billings is one of the best contested marks for his size. He throws himself at the ball in the air and on the ground. Yet having said that, he has the perfect outside midfielder’s skill set. Most of Billings’ damage comes from his forward nous. He kicked 14 goals and 15 behinds in 2014, while ranking second in both total goal assists and inside 50s per game among rookies. His best game was 25 disposals, eight marks and three goals against the Eagles last year. Despite starring last year, Billings still has plenty of room to grow in terms of getting his own ball (which we know he can), defending and learning how to be a leader. If everything goes right for Billings, he has the ability to become a top ten player in the league. 3. Tom Boyd – I’m not worried about how Boyd has performed in comparison to some others. His contested marking and set shot kicking is absolutely incredible. We’ll see him dominate a few quarters this year, and that’s all he needs to do to convince me that he was the right number one pick. If he can kick above 20 goals this year while co-existing with some unconventional forwards in Jake Stringer and Stewart Crameri, that will be an absolute win. The only way I can see Boyd being a bust is if his career is ruined by injuries. His strength is up there in the Tom Hawkins category and his goal kicking is better than most key forwards. Boyd played with Christian Petracca, Dan McStay and Michael Apeness at the Ranges and he was able to not only play alongside them well, but actually complement those players. The Dogs have a similar goal kicking spread with those unusual pieces, so Boyd could be a perfect fit. Having said that, Boyd will need at least two seasons to get used to playing alongside Stringer, Crameri and Bontempelli, just to understand the spacing his teammates need. I have no issues with saying Boyd will be in the top five key forwards in the league at his peak. 2. Christian Salem – Here’s the curve ball, but I’ve never been more excited for a player than Christian Salem. From round one of the TAC Cup season in 2013, Salem showed that he had those intangibles that could make him the most damaging player of the draft. Salem kicks goals from all angles, he can lead out while understanding forward spacing, and his crumbing is elite for someone I wouldn’t call a forward. Salem is an absolute bull around the contests. He was already strongly built from day one, and yet he might be the best outside midfielder of the draft. His kicking is superb in every aspect, which for mine is underrated. Over 25 metres, he’ll hit the target every time. He can weight 55 metre passes over the top of defences for forwards to run into perfectly, and he will always honour the lead. Having that clutch gene is also an intangible, and despite being somewhat disappointing on the stats sheet last year, that goal to beat Essendon just defines how he is as a player. Salem has never been a great accumulator, but his 20 disposals per week will be much more influential than most other players. Salem playing off the half back line is a great move for him this year, given he needs a year of building confidence and having trust from his teammates. At worst, I can see Salem being a Brett Deledio-type, but at best, there aren’t any players who have as wide a skill set as Salem. 1. Marcus Bontempelli – I was wrong about ‘The Bont’. He never impressed me in the TAC Cup. Then there was about a month stretch where he went bananas. From the 13th of July to the 24th of August, Bontempelli’s averages over five games stood at: 24.2 disposals at 67% disposal efficiency, 1.8 goals, 5.8 marks, 7.4 handball receives and 3.2 tackles. We knew Bontempelli could kick goals, after his bag of 10 for Marcellin. The question was whether he’d have the consistency and also whether or not he was going to be able to find the footy at AFL level. Lo and behold, he comes out and sits in the top five for inside 50s, contested possessions, clearances, goals and contested marks. His desire for the ball is absolutely incredible. Not many would have predicted that he would have been as good a contested player as he is already, because he was considered more of a highlights reel player with a great frame. At this stage, Bontempelli is without doubt the top player in the draft, but what else can he add to his game? He was meant to be the project type with plenty of upside, but he seems to have already reached a high level. Indeed, at his peak, we might be looking at a top 20 player in the league. Published by Jourdan Canil Original Link -http://goo.gl/s96myF

Yeah... Feels wrong somehow...

Dam!!! I did miss that! Ok Mitchie in for Viney.

Unlikely

The you in the above quote is not directed at me but if I could reply; blind Freddy should be able to see AFL corruption in this. Firstly Demetriou tipped of Essendon on this and you are delusional if you think otherwise. The AFL continually leaked to the media i.e. Caroline Wilson anything and everything to destroy Hird. It was and still is their prerogative to have a scapegoat rather than the whole football club which ruins the AFL's brand, tv rights, fixturing and raft of other things we haven't even begun to consider. Now the AFL appear to be holding back the decision on Dank until it is too late for ASADA to appeal the AFL panel's decision of insufficient evidence. And finally you say there is nothing but circumstantial evidence of AFL corruption. Do you not see the irony in that?

Despite his youth and clearly having a lot of work to do on his physique, I've seen no evidence so far of Brayshaw being beaten up. If anything he has punched well above his weight in the physicality stakes. He's best 22 for mine and should play; the whole game ideally if the club thinks he's got the tank for it. That's the only question IMO. He should be good for 70% TOG like Viney saw in his earlier years, I would have thought.

And we punished them for it, especially in the first quarter. If we'd been horrific as well, the scores would have been close at quarter and half time, but they weren't. We must have been playing at least okay - okay enough to be able to take something away from it.

The Etihad and North droughts are the most ludicrous.

He just needs to play his role. Whatever it is...

Slightly different, but still waiting for a Melbourne player to kick 100 goals in a season.

Who in the comp at the moment has two big forwards working well together.....Clark & Hawkins ......Cloke & Jessie smith......tippet & franklin.......even Roughead & Gunston ( though gunston not really a big) ....one is generally doing ok but not both ....however you would be a brave person to say that it won't eventually click & then become effective. Dawes has had one game with hogan.....hogan has had two afl games .....why do we have to make such damming statements so early in the season. I for one remember the many games last season where Dawes was our only forward & rag dolled & harrassed opponents with often 3 hanging of him. Can't we at least wait till rnds 5 or 6 onwards to make such definitive statements!!

There are three main flaws with Dawes: 1. He is a forward who seems to spend most of his time wandering around the wing / half back flank. 2. He couldn't take a contested mark if his life depended on it. 3. He doesn't kick anywhere near enough goals - 32 in 31 games for the MFC. I don't think he is capable of playing the role that we ask of him, so I'm not convinced he is in our best 22 at present. You could never question his workrate or intensity, although he is becoming increasingly ill disciplined. Ultimately B&F finishes of 19th and 16th are utterly unacceptable for a player who is presumably in the top 3 highest paid players at the club.

The Bont is an absolute freak of a footballer. Rivals Robbie Gray and Fyfe as my fave non-Demon.

fellini is a pretentious [merchant banker] compulsory viewing for university students, the intellectual left and inmates of mental asylums

Last time we met - Adelaide Actually very enjoyable... Maybe we're a chance.

Debatable. We kicked 17 goals without Dawes in round 1. I haven't written him off yet but he needs to prove that he belongs in our forward line.

Dawes is unlikely to get the better defender if teams have done their research. But he'll still help Hogan. For one it divides the contests each has to stand under and take big hits, because there will be plenty of up and under kicks. It also allows Hogan to go closer to goal if that's his best match up or go up the ground and get involved in play knowing we have another deeper target. Funny how everyone creamed themselves about Watts' tap down to Garlett last week but I didn't see much praise for the way Dawes not to mark but to tap it down to Kent for a beautiful crumbing goal in the first quarter. Don't get me wrong, Dawes is a limited player and I struggle to see him getting a game in a top side. I would love to have a dominant ruck/forward player out of the goal square, a mature Hogan playing traditional CHF and then Jack Watts fulfilling his talent as the 3rd option. A couple of crumbers and resting mid or half forwards who can take a grab and we've got a really good set up. But we don't have that really good 2nd ruck/forward. Hogan is 2 games in to his career. Watts looks improved this year but still has a lot of work to do to show he's a marking target not just an overly tall flanker.

I am amazed we have graduated from the nonsense of the last few years where we can be so blase about keeping a team goalless and being up by 4 goals away from home...

Beat St Kilda at Etihad a week after beating the Pies on QB and that is four of the above... Some are more meaningful than others though. Beating Geelong down at Mordor would be huge, and of course beating Hawthorn, but Geelong are on a precipice - I would love to push them over...

Far more concerned about our midfield. Until we improve here, our forwards will continue to struggle.

I don't get the argument of someone being dropped because they're on big coin. Let him string more than one game in a row this season before calling for him to be dropped.

Not entirely correct... he was "acquired" as a #2 forward at a time when we still had Clark who was always going to be the #1 forward. Unfortunately Clark never got back on the park (for us) and so Dawes became our defacto #1 forward. Now that we have the likes of Garlett and JKH (and even Kent) to pick up the crumbs around the packs and the loose balls in the forward half, and now that Watts is attracting probably the third defender, we probably rely less on Dawes as a classic goal kicking forward, but more on him busting packs to feed those crumbers... let Hogan take the strong contested marks and kick the goals..

Good renewal phoning results in a tough on field week. We had a hiccup with paper work on Monday, but thanks to Pete, Geoff, Tricia, Julian, Catherine, Pete, Geoff, Graham, John & Tim we achieved 20 renewals. Then a smooth running Tuesday night secure 42 renewals courtesy of Geoff, Steve, Liz, Daniel, Rosalyn, John, Pete, Geoff & Pete. GOING FORWARD we have about 3000 more dial ups to unsigned members. A total of 7 - 8 nights with a full complement of volunteers. Great if we can complete by this time next month. New comers welcome.

This tribunal. ...its all above board. So we're lead to believe. No contrivances here. You wouldn't think it could take quite so long for 3 wise and experienced folk to arrive at a decision. The delay is surely only coincidental The sooner all of this is taken out of the AFLs grubby hands the better. The whole methodology of the League is to bend and shape things to suit. This is no different. Crooked is as crooked does. Roll on WADA

That was my shorthand response to your exposition about how hard the players' lives are. You've said the players work 8am-5pm most days, with a day off. Let's take the week you set out on page 2 above as an example. You cannot possibly tell me that 'club recovery' on Sunday is more than a couple of hours at most. I often work a couple of hours on a weekend too and a hell of a lot of people work the whole thing. Meetings/training/weights - yes, heavy physical activity but no worse than a lot of blokes routinely put in at sites all over the place during the week. Their 'hours worked' number would be nowhere near your suggested 6 day a week, 9 hour a day job. Putting all of that aside in any case, your input into the original topic was to say that the players couldn't be expected to spend a couple of hours on a weekend watching a live game because their lives are so chock a block with their work already (substituting, obviously, 'work' for a 'career as an athlete'). Here's an idea - how about the club cancels just one of those afternoons of weights or meetings or hanging out at primary schools or, look, whatever they feel like really, and send everyone to a game of footy to watch how a decent team does it?

You would think so. The case proper wound up back in January, and closing submissions were 2 months ago now. The tribunal must understand full well the situation with the 21-day deadline on the appeal, and the urgency to have the Dank case settled. Not leaving a great taste in the mouth.

I doubted Viney in the off-season, but he has had a ripping start to the year. I know nothing.

Curry, I can understand if a player wants to switch off from the game but Roos has made a direction to the team that includes an important lesson ,or many, gained cheaply.

Interesting thread

I drove up to Canberra for the game with a crew of demon mates, optimistic of a good showing but mindful of my fathers words. "Never back a horse second up after a spell." And how right he was. Devastated by the lack of effort. Confused that professional footballers could not take clean possession. Confounded that leadership can disappear within 1 short week. Feelings of deja vu. Fortunately the beer was cold at the ground, the red wine flowed that night and was complimented by the cleansing of Olympic proportioned venting. I am not concerned about who is in or out I just want effort applied to the task at hand. So re-attach the heart strings and take it up to the crows. Go Dees.

He was over the top but it was a GWS home game and that was his job - so sadly no probs. I just wish we'd won so that I could have continued my loud, vulgar and boorish comments after half time and included the ground announcer in my spray. Have to say though I got some nice shots on Davis early when he conceded a 50m. I really [censored] a few of the locals but it was small bananas when we were smashed.

Pretty spot on I think. Bontempelli looks like he could be a genuine A-grade gun and I think Salem isn't far behind. Shows that the Salem/Tyson trade is a win overall.