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This whole post annoys me no end. After one loss we are already lowering ourselves to dumping players and talking about the offseason. Absolutely ridiculous. Some people are acting like the world has caved in. Last week we couldn't stop praising the side, and now we are potting them and even trying to imply they don't play for the jumper. They certainly looked mighty proud of the jumper last week.

Did anybody notice Channel 7's commentary today which had so many tags leading us to believe that the Essendon players have inspirationally overcome their associated difficulties from all the legal disputes and accusations lowered against them? I think Dennis Cometti said, "It’s so great to see them getting back to their day jobs". The general sentiment from the commentary box was that the team has played no pre-season matches and they're winning because they're all top blokes. The Essendon Football Club and its players are rapidly becoming the darlings of the AFL. Why would anybody lead us to believe this? There’s clearly an AFL strategy agreed to by the Commission, State and Federal Governments, the Player's Association, sponsors, media, the Essendon Football Club and the Essendon players to collectively protect the football code against drug cheating allegations. By successfully doing so, Australia’s sporting reputation, individual sporting reputations and all the revenue that comes with the value of these reputations, including the sale of television rights, match day attendance, interest in the game and player payments will be saved. There are far greater things at stake than making an example of an errant football team and a bunch of naïve, ‘stand up guys’. This scandal started with obvious collaboration between the AFL and the Essendon Football Club and that's the way it will end. Let's be clear, any ASADA appeal (if it comes) will fail. The AFL Anti-Doping Code will be rewritten before WADA can take action (making them irrelevant) and we can all get back to our day jobs and do what we love doing the most which is "getting on with the footy". There’s nothing to see here people. Essendon is in the clear. Coaches, players and staff (and the AFL) have gotten away with it. AFL drug cheating... pfft.. get over it. There's no such thing. The dog ate my database.

And that is often while shutting an opposition player down. Actually quite baffling people would even consider dropping him.

I think that's the sort of thing Grimes would actually really enjoy. It's a single minded task, which if performed well, will go a long way to helping us win. The reality is that Grimes will struggle to fit back into the defensive 6 pending injury or horrible drop in form. He doesn't replace the 3 talls, so is competing with Salem/Jetta/Lamumba all of which are better than him either offensive or defensive or both. This means if he's to get himself back into our best 22 it has to be in a different role. Is he good enough to be a straight up midfielder? I don't think so, but I think he has what it takes to be a good tagger. He has good endurance, good defensively and overhead, OK speed, and has the right "team first" mind set to do that role. I think he's worked hard enough and gave a lot to this team for many years, and deserves to be given every opportunity to get back into the side and cement his spot. Plus if this works it means no McKenzie and letting Viney settle into a more attacking role. Viney is a clearance machine and that should be his primary role. Tagging is good for his development but I can't see it being his long term role.

No change. The side of Saturday was meant to be our best 22. Lets give them another run, if we see the same effort than swing the axe for the Richmond game after all the players in the VFL have had another week to earn their spot. I want players coming out of the VFL side into the AFL side from back to back to back excellent performances, not drop him, gets 27 touches, bring him in, gets 16 touches, drop him, etc.

Another thing which hasn't had much comment so far is that GWS used Cameron to lead Tommy away from the play out to the flanks. They didn't even look for Cameron thus preventing Tommy from stopping other passages of play. This in no way diminishes Tommy's fantastic work on Cameron for the whole day...just saying GWS were very clever about opening up their forward 50 to let their small guys charge through. The ploy worked!

Clark is as weak as [censored], l work in Mental Health and dealing with people with depression on a daily basis. Clark isn't depressed, he just cracks the [censored] when things get too hard for him and he does what is known as a 'geographical', he runs away to a new place because he thinks that will fix everything. Leigh Mathews said same thing when he was talking about Clark leaving Melbourne, said he did the same thing in Brisbane, ran because he's weak, can't face up to anything. This stuff with Lake is the same, moaning and crying over apparently nothing, from what l heard on radio yesterday everyone is at the same consensus that he is making it up for attention. Clark is a weak pathological liar and that is his one problem!!

Yeah, have to agree. Wasn't it Hird that wanted to get faster results or something along those lines. By getting the players stronger, quicker they set them up well ahead of other players who do not take PH drugs.

I saw this on Facebook and considerate an interesting read. For those of us that don't have Facebook i have added the article below and the link at the bottom. It’s very early on, but it usually only takes a year or two to find the 20 best prospects. The 2013 draft may be the best draft since 2008 and should eventually challenge the 2001 draft. I’ve ranked the first 30 picks and separated them into several categories: potential is factored into the rankings, with some consideration into their performances so far. NB – This is a rankings lists, not a ‘who would have been taken where’ if the draft was redone. Haven’t had enough of a run yet: 30. Darcy Lang – The 2013 Geelong Falcons team was arguably the best TAC Cup team to not win a premiership. Lang’s injury troubles made him a hidden gem, and the fact that the Cats used pick 15 on him shows how much trust they have in him. A ball winner who can uses the ball supremely, Lang will take a little while to push into the team’s best 22. Against the Hawks he seemed to always find himself in space and showed complete composure. It’s that ability to spot up a target under pressure that is his best asset. 29. James Sicily – The ‘best contested mark for his size’ category could be hotly debated for the 2013 draft class. Ben Lennon and Jack Billings have incredible marking abilities, but Sicily is the type of player who could re-define player roles through his incredible leap. Sicily has the potential to kick 40 or 50 goals in an AFL season, but his thin frame will take a while to develop. 28. Blake Acres – Acres put together a few games last year, but it’s still tough to figure out what kind of player he will be. He looks to have outside class, and the Saints will love his size. His lack of consistency and form on paper concerns me: he’d be my pick for a potential bust, with his injury history particularly troubling. 27. Cam McCarthy – I’ll admit it, I wasn’t sold on McCarthy in his draft year. His goal kicking seemed a little off and he didn’t look like he had the skills to dominate at AFL level. His marking was exceptional as an 18 year old and he had a long frame, but he seemed more likely to become a Tyrone Vickery type than a genuine star. However, his performance against Essendon in the NAB Challenge (despite how weak they were) really showcased his improvement in his goal kicking, his running patterns and strength, as did his game against St Kilda on the weekend. McCarthy could shoot up this list with Tom Boyd now at the Dogs. Injured prospects: 26. Matthew Scharenberg – Unlike Acres, Scharenberg had really shown his worth at TAC Cup level, and could have went as high as pick three had he not gotten injured. He’s got the ability to win enough footy at senior level and his body type fits the prototypical tall midfielder. He just needs to get on the park and find where his best footy is. 25. Nathan Freeman – Freeman has the potential to break out as a top five contender. His speed is frightening, while his offensive game is elite and well-rounded. He can kick goals, he breaks lines and he looks for the best option every time. Freeman is not only a great kick and athlete, but a strong bodied midfielder who tackles ferociously and reads the game well. He’s got all the makings of a star – he just needs some luck on the injury front. Great value: 24. Sam Lloyd – He’s shown quite a bit at AFL level, but the big question is in regards to how high his ceiling is. Lloyd finds enough of the football to be effective and kick goals, but that seems to be the only string to his bow at this stage. He was a great find for the Tigers and should continue to become a more rounded forward. 23. Zak Jones – There’s no one angrier and tougher in this draft class than Zak Jones. At best, Jones could be a wonderful half back, yet he probably doesn’t quite have that extra level that someone like Jarman Impey has. Jones is a very solid kick and he’s accountable defensively, but he doesn’t have as much offensive firepower as the top-line half backs do. The worst case scenario is that he becomes the heart and soul of the footy club as the unsung lockdown hero. 22. Darcy Gardiner – The best key defender in the draft class hasn’t disappointed at all for the Lions. They drafted a known quantity: he can keep any forward quiet, but don’t ask him for much more. He doesn’t need to do more, as he has Dan McStay (if they use him down back) and Tom Cutler who can provide rebound as tall backmen. 21. Mitch Honeychurch – Perhaps one of the most damaging players of the class of 2013, Honeychurch cannot be disregarded due to his height. He does everything you want a half forward/midfielder to do. He can kick a bag of goals, he finds plenty of the ball (all on the outside mind you) and his kicking is precise. With the Dogs looking towards the Port Adelaide goal-kicking spread model, Honeychurch is an invaluable piece moving forward. Great seasons, but should be overtaken by those with another gear: 20. Jay Kennedy-Harris – The former Oakleigh captain was someone I rated really highly in 2013. His defensive effort, speed, skill and motor were all astonishing. He could play anywhere on the field and his size didn’t matter. For Kennedy-Harris, it’s hard to see where the improvement will come from, as he seems to have all the small forward boxes ticked. It’s hard for a player of his size to suddenly develop an inside midfielder’s game, so he doesn’t quite have the potential of a Lewis Taylor. He looks to be a really solid player who could be an excellent small forward. 19. Patrick Ambrose – On exposed form, he’s probably in the top five so far alongside Luke McDonald, Marcus Bontempelli, Lewis Taylor and Tom Langdon. He’s turning 23 this year and averaged 11 disposals, three tackles and kicked 13 goals in 16 games as a medium forward. His potential isn’t as high as someone like Ben Lennon – who plays a similar role – but don’t count on Ambrose simply to get overtaken due to his age. 18. Tom Langdon – Langdon missed out on the draft in 2012 because recruiters thought he was limited. He came back in 2013 and was a standout, but still was a late pick because he wasn’t a great kick. Langdon’s first AFL season was consistent and really promising. He’s still not a smooth ball mover, but he’s an accountable, courageous defender who can find the ball. He doesn’t have the potential of a Luke McDonald, but Langdon looks like he could carve out a 150 game career. Got another gear: 17. Patrick Cripps – Pick 13 felt really high for Cripps. A big bodied midfielder who wasn’t that dominant? It seemed like there were 10 better options for the Blues, but Shane Rogers deserves credit, as Cripps has morphed into a fine player. He’s showed he’s capable of racking up the ball in the reserves, and his kicking has become much better than expected. Mick Malthouse is trying to turn him into a goal-kicking midfielder which is surprising, as he never seemed to have this many strings to his bow. Cripps should bolt up the list if he gets a lot of games this year. 16. Dom Sheed – A no-risk, solid reward investment in the Eagles eyes. Sheed won the Larke medal despite missing a lot of the National Championships, as his dominance was unfathomable. He seems to be underrated because he’s a pure inside midfielder: people seem to forget he’s got other skills. He kicked four goals against Vic Country, and his decision making is supreme. He’s got the skill set of a young Sam Mitchell, a player who was always knocked for not being a good kick, until the media realised about two years too late that he was dual sided and a supreme kick. Sheed’s got the base to become a Mitchell-type player. 15. Jarman Impey – TAC Cup Impey and AFL Impey are two different beasts. TAC Cup Impey was a highlight reel match winner: against the Rebels, he was best on ground with four goals, three behinds, 26 touches, 11 handball receives, eight marks (three were contested) and three tackles. He played anywhere on the ground and torched whoever he wanted with his speed, strength and goal kicking ability. But as soon as Port drafted him, they turned him into a complete lockdown player. He wasn’t given the opportunity to show off his flair, and you could be forgiven if you were a Port fan and thinking that this guy is the next Steve Morris. Impey has all the skills now to become one of the best two-way players for the best team in the competition. He could easily become a top ten contender if Port lets him play freely. 14. Matt Crouch – First, nobody wanted to trade for the rights to Matt Crouch in the GWS mini-draft. Then, after averaging 38 disposals in the TAC Cup, he slid to Adelaide. No matter how dominant he is, people disregard Crouch because he is a poor kick. However, he finds the ball like no other, while his vision to find people with darting handballs makes his teammates better. He tackles, works so hard and he’s got the ability to translate these skills into the AFL. If his kicking gets even slightly better, he’s a good shot to break into the top ten. 13. Billy Hartung – Athletically, Hartung is the most gifted small midfielder to come through in a while. His endurance is phenomenal, and the combination with his speed makes makes him a perfect wingman for the Hawks. Hartung showcased those two assets and his great kicking last year in limited glimpses, but he’s got plenty of other tricks that are yet to come out. Hartung is an accumulator, and despite being pigeonholed as an outside midfielder, he doesn’t mind getting his own footy. He can impact the scoreboard and he’s an on-field leader. He’s got the kind of winner’s mindset that might come across as arrogant to some, but he’s just so intent on being successful. 12. Ben Lennon – This might surprise some people, especially with Lennon’s mediocre 2014, but he has the tools to become a dynamic player at AFL level. Lennon is the prototypical midfielder. Large frame? Tick. Strong overhead marking ability? Got it. Ability to use both feet to a high standard? Absolutely. Can he play in just about any role? No doubt about it. I hopped on the Lennon bandwagon straight away, knowing he had a massive ceiling, but it was clear that he hadn’t quite figured out how to have an impact in every game. In fact, I rated Lennon much higher than his former Northern Knights team mate Marcus Bontempelli in their draft years. Having said that, Bontempelli seemed to only have his incredible games when I wasn’t at the Knights games. 11. Luke McDonald – McDonald played 22 games last year and he’s the most promising player on North’s list, yet he might not even be in their best 22 this year. McDonald is a lethal kick and he’s got a strong body. He looks to be a very solid choice as a defender, but I wasn’t sold on him as a midfielder. He doesn’t win a lot of his own ball, but with his frame, he could if he wanted to. The potential for him to become both an inside and outside player is there, and his average of just under 17 disposals in his first year was phenomenal. He’s not playing to his athletic strengths yet, which hurts his case as a top ten contender. For someone with decent speed, he only took four bounces for the whole of 2014. He also only averaged five contested possessions last year, but with that 189cm 85kg frame, he should be going in a lot harder, especially with his courage. Top ten contenders: 10. Zach Merrett – The Bombers lost Stewart Crameri, but picked up Merrett with the compensation pick. On exposed form, Merrett had the most encouraging season of any rookie last year. No, he didn’t have the numbers that Bontempelli, Dunstan or Taylor had. However, he was able to string together 20 games with remarkable consistency. The most impressive part was that he played off a half forward flank for the entire year: a spot where young midfielders often struggle to have an impact in every game. Merrett was able to keep out other midfielders who have had plenty more experience in a particularly strong squad. Merrett has wonderful composure, a high football IQ and he was able to not only deliver to the key forwards, but also expand on his own scoring ability – something he didn’t do well at TAC Cup level. 9. Luke Dunstan – Many have been quick to write off Dunstan due to his perceived low ceiling. He is wrongly judged as a player who has already hit his peak. Yes, his body is stronger than most at his age and yes he is an instant-impact inside midfielder. However, he is already an outstanding leader, explosive around contests and he has the ability to hit the scoreboard. Comparisons to Dustin Martin aren’t too far off, but he’s probably not as good a mark or an athlete as Martin. However, a Jobe Watson type role isn’t too far of a stretch: his kicking is decent, he’s an accumulator, has a strong body, can go forward and he’ll bleed for his club. 8. Lewis Taylor – I hate when clubs ignore talent over size. Taylor should have been between pick 8-15 in the draft, yet he slid to the late 20s. Taylor has every skill necessary – speed, endurance, great kicking, goal sense, finding the football and tackling. Winning the NAB Rising Star was never a surprise. He was always going to be solid as a first year player, but he’s probably a peg above where I thought he’d be at this stage. Taylor still has plenty of upside and there seems to be no real issue for him. His game suits his size, so it doesn’t matter that he is less than 180cm. Taylor is the kind of guy who can get 25 disposals and a goal each and every week in his prime. 7. Kade Kolodjashnij – ‘KK’ is an intriguing prospect. Of all the players on this list, he’s the only one who I find it hard to see what he will develop into. As an 18 year old, he looked like he was just an excellent half back who had great foot skills. I queried his ability to find the ball: naturally, he then managed to have a 38 disposal game for Tasmania. In 2014 he averaged 17.1 disposals and showed in spurts that he could tackle and get some inside 50s. However, there would be other games where he wouldn’t tackle at all and couldn’t break free and get forward. I’m not sure whether he will transition into a midfielder, but his skill set is too good for him to be a half back flanker. We don’t know what he’s like when he gets tagged. He’s probably the hardest player to rank despite having great consistency. 6. Josh Kelly – I think the Dees got this one right. I’m not sure Josh Kelly is going to be a top five player in this draft, and picking up Christian Salem and Dom Tyson for Kelly might be wonderful value (that’s if the Dees can keep developing them). Kelly is exactly what we think he is. He hits targets with his kicks and I think he could become one of the best kicks under pressure in the league. However, Kelly is always going to be an outside player. His frame is still very skinny, but what’s more important is that he is going to struggle to put on weight. His potential to be Ben Cousins MK II rests on that ability to put on the weight. Cousins was only 79kgs at his peak, but he was ripped. I’m not sure Kelly could ever reach that Cousins level, despite being an insanely good athlete and hard worker. One positive for Kelly that I didn’t see coming is his ability to go forward, with his 13 goals in 18 games last year an incredible result. 5. James Aish – I can’t believe Aish is ‘only’ at number five. Essentially, Aish does everything Kelly does, but he also wins his own contested ball and tackles hard every week. Aish missed a sizable chunk of his draft year, and if he didn’t, he would have certainly been a top three pick. I think Aish needs to trust his kicking a bit more. He always hits targets, but his kick to handball ratio was exactly 1:1 last year. Aish was expected to show his talent in flashes last year, but somehow he showed remarkable consistency and an ability to find his own ball on the inside and the outside. Aish ranked first in total contested possessions for rookies last year and he also came in third for total uncontested possessions among first years. Incredible. Pushing for top spot: 4. Jack Billings – Billings is a really rare player. His peak could be Nathan Fyfe, albeit with a wonderful kick. Billings is one of the best contested marks for his size. He throws himself at the ball in the air and on the ground. Yet having said that, he has the perfect outside midfielder’s skill set. Most of Billings’ damage comes from his forward nous. He kicked 14 goals and 15 behinds in 2014, while ranking second in both total goal assists and inside 50s per game among rookies. His best game was 25 disposals, eight marks and three goals against the Eagles last year. Despite starring last year, Billings still has plenty of room to grow in terms of getting his own ball (which we know he can), defending and learning how to be a leader. If everything goes right for Billings, he has the ability to become a top ten player in the league. 3. Tom Boyd – I’m not worried about how Boyd has performed in comparison to some others. His contested marking and set shot kicking is absolutely incredible. We’ll see him dominate a few quarters this year, and that’s all he needs to do to convince me that he was the right number one pick. If he can kick above 20 goals this year while co-existing with some unconventional forwards in Jake Stringer and Stewart Crameri, that will be an absolute win. The only way I can see Boyd being a bust is if his career is ruined by injuries. His strength is up there in the Tom Hawkins category and his goal kicking is better than most key forwards. Boyd played with Christian Petracca, Dan McStay and Michael Apeness at the Ranges and he was able to not only play alongside them well, but actually complement those players. The Dogs have a similar goal kicking spread with those unusual pieces, so Boyd could be a perfect fit. Having said that, Boyd will need at least two seasons to get used to playing alongside Stringer, Crameri and Bontempelli, just to understand the spacing his teammates need. I have no issues with saying Boyd will be in the top five key forwards in the league at his peak. 2. Christian Salem – Here’s the curve ball, but I’ve never been more excited for a player than Christian Salem. From round one of the TAC Cup season in 2013, Salem showed that he had those intangibles that could make him the most damaging player of the draft. Salem kicks goals from all angles, he can lead out while understanding forward spacing, and his crumbing is elite for someone I wouldn’t call a forward. Salem is an absolute bull around the contests. He was already strongly built from day one, and yet he might be the best outside midfielder of the draft. His kicking is superb in every aspect, which for mine is underrated. Over 25 metres, he’ll hit the target every time. He can weight 55 metre passes over the top of defences for forwards to run into perfectly, and he will always honour the lead. Having that clutch gene is also an intangible, and despite being somewhat disappointing on the stats sheet last year, that goal to beat Essendon just defines how he is as a player. Salem has never been a great accumulator, but his 20 disposals per week will be much more influential than most other players. Salem playing off the half back line is a great move for him this year, given he needs a year of building confidence and having trust from his teammates. At worst, I can see Salem being a Brett Deledio-type, but at best, there aren’t any players who have as wide a skill set as Salem. 1. Marcus Bontempelli – I was wrong about ‘The Bont’. He never impressed me in the TAC Cup. Then there was about a month stretch where he went bananas. From the 13th of July to the 24th of August, Bontempelli’s averages over five games stood at: 24.2 disposals at 67% disposal efficiency, 1.8 goals, 5.8 marks, 7.4 handball receives and 3.2 tackles. We knew Bontempelli could kick goals, after his bag of 10 for Marcellin. The question was whether he’d have the consistency and also whether or not he was going to be able to find the footy at AFL level. Lo and behold, he comes out and sits in the top five for inside 50s, contested possessions, clearances, goals and contested marks. His desire for the ball is absolutely incredible. Not many would have predicted that he would have been as good a contested player as he is already, because he was considered more of a highlights reel player with a great frame. At this stage, Bontempelli is without doubt the top player in the draft, but what else can he add to his game? He was meant to be the project type with plenty of upside, but he seems to have already reached a high level. Indeed, at his peak, we might be looking at a top 20 player in the league. Published by Jourdan Canil Original Link -http://goo.gl/s96myF

For the idiots who want Cross out of the team, can I remind you that he is our leading possession winner after the first 2 games. Vs GC. 24d 8m 4t Vs GWS. 23d 4m 1t Leg speed is not everything.

They still do carbo loading the day of a match. (I believe ...) The problem on Saturday wasn't what's going on below the neck, but above it.

I just hope Brayshaw gets a starting spot, really like his pressure, disposal and unaffected psyche.

Needed another big and effective ruck to compete with Mumford in the second half. We simply couldn't win any clearances.

Cheats do prosper

for a while there i thought a broken leg was one of the hardest things to come back from. now it appears it's feet injuries. ricky has been diagnosed with a lisfranc injury after 'pulling up sore' following the loss to footscray. such bad luck that kid. i liked him when he was at the dees.

I also can't fathom the hate for Cross. Has a reputation for iffy disposal but in reality it has been ok in both games, just being judged harsher because he has had the most disposals of any of our players. His defensive work, leadership and manic attack on the ball make him one of the first picked imo. I do wonder whether I'm watching the same game as other posters at times...

Then Howe will never touch the ball. Howe needs to move and be unpredictable. If he's stuck deep he will never get to a contest, opposition defenders would give him no room to fly. It's been tried and it's failed before. He didn't have a good one on the weekend but has played some good footy at HB so maybe leave him there and watch what happens...personally I would play him on a wing or high HF, a great let out kick from defence.

Terrible, I was happy to see him do well at another club. Wish him a speedy recovery.

I wonder who, in this thread, actually has any serious qualifications (other than Dr Google) to discuss this stuff. Not that lack of expertise stops us discussing many things! With all due respect to all D'Landers, I would hate anyone to take dietary advice from postings on this board.

This is a great idea. It will make drafting more accurate as more kids will have a year to play in a senior side in the a state league. I think you will find that it will become less of a lottery as a result. This is beneficial for players and clubs. It will force them to work or study (whilst not earning an AFL income) meaning it help them in their personal development and give them greater perspective on life. Finally, it will give a greater opportunity for those who are late developers to catch up, again improving draft accuracy.

Clutching at straws methinks... it was just a case of the team having a collective brain fade in the second half and then panicking once they woke up to the fact they were being overrun.

We nailed two more last year with Brayshaw and Petracca.

That looks like an en-dash to me. Edit:- The en dash (–) is slightly wider than the hyphen (-) but narrower than the em dash (—). How's that for anal?

But you've never liked him. To point out a couple of mistakes in an otherwise exceptional game is mindboggling. http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/36757-im-officially-over-tom-mcdonald/?hl=mcdonald

Frost came to us as a defender, he could do a job on Walker.

Vince only played 52% of the game, but during that 52% he had the highest possession rate of anyone other than Cross for the game. That says to me that rather than him struggling, they were just managing his time on the field. No doubt the necessity to do that hurt us, especially since Newton also spent a lot of time off the ground, but I think it would be counter-productive to drop him now. If he wasn't 100%, the time to leave him out was last week, not this week.

I was one that called for Dawes to be included, thought is leadership and aggression would help, but i think we need the speed of JKH more thank Dawes' presence. I would also start Brayshaw and have Vince as the sub.

I always find it interesting that when people talk about teams having good "winning culture" it just so happens their players are also really good at football. Yet, when those players leave or get too old the "winning culture" is no longer there. Weird.

Watts and Howe were in our best 6 last week so I would wait to see how they go for at least the next few weeks before I would hang them.

Lol people here are fickle. Garland won't be dropped. He had an average game but no defender can be at fault for 13 straight goals from the opposition. The fault is squarely on the mids! Only McDonald hands down won the day. On this trend everyone should get dropped.

I've always had an issue with these games for a number of reasons, the symbology of comparing a game of football to the sacrifices people make in fighting for their country is so trite. It's a commercial venture... I just wish the RSL could have been stronger and come out and called a spade a spade and preserved the solemnity of the day.

I don't wish Frawley ill will at all .....but with Mitch Clark ....happy whenever the karma bus comes a'knocking.....also what I don't understand ..if you're mentally fragile ...why on earth are you on social media ??

It's mindboggling to me that a team of drug cheats is being painted as inspiring and "brave" by the media. There's a serious cultural problem in Australia, where a blind eye is turned to cheating. They should be torn to shreds, but their clout and connections (politically and in the media) prevents it. Disturbing and perverse.

yes but Jack Viney wasn't born like you and I, he burst out of his mothers womb/stomach and ran straight onto the MCG.

Gold Coast applied almost no pressure in our match. The Saints beat a better GC team by 30 points at their home ground, so it's hard not to be cynical about our win in hindsight. It reiterates to me that the team only seem capable of performing when up against no pressure. Although we got a few surprise wins last year against good sides, most of them were because the opposition were walkovers who didn't apply pressure (likely because they just expected to win against us, and gave us no respect). It's also why we don't win against the other bottom 4 teams, because unlike us they come out guns blazing knowing we're an easy kill under pressure. We come out expecting to win and get a rude awakening.

If you want to feel really sick....I was passing the Essendope training base yesterday. "Graffitied" onto a concrete wall overlooking the ovals is in 6foot high letters " Not Guilty". The public really needs some socially conscious taggers to head out to Tullamarine and perform their civic duty and remove/cover this blight......

Well, the midfield - the first choice midfield - was the reason for the malaise and the annihilation. Who do you drop from that? Perhaps Cross for JKH or Toumpas/Jones/Grimes/Michie. Maybe. But he is value to run with someone, and he is a fine leader. But at the end of the hard, long day - Jones and Tyson need to lift and that will lift everyone else as they won't have to attempt to carry a burden they simply can't carry. You just cannot replace your best players and because we have so few - when they are down - we will invariably look terrible.

First Half: Great team playing. Second Half: Not my job. Wait for someone else to do it.

I think we were out coached as well.. There were minimal moves made to stop this run on.. No extra men in defence or moving the midfield around..

Progressive totals after Round 2 - and it's been an ominous start by T Mac: 36. Tom McDonald 22. Jack Viney 13. Nathan Jones 11. Christian Salem 10. Colin Garland Jesse Hogan 6. Jack Watts 5. Jeffrey Garlett 4. Daniel Cross 3. Aaron vandenBerg 2. Neville Jetta Ben Newton 1. Angus Brayshaw Lynden Dunn

Well the good news is that problem had nothing to do with Grimesy

Clark was incredibly undisciplined today. After his moronic, aimless long bomb into their forward fifty (easily marked uncontested by a Freo player), Selwood turned around, threw out his mouthguard and screamed abuse at him. Problems at the Cattery, I love it!

Gosh it'd be great timing if ASADA chose tomorrow to announce an appeal. It's going to be insufferable listening to the media this week.

Being a Canberran I went to the game yesterday. Without wanting to sound like a bitter old curmudgeon... (yesterday was also my 47th birthday so I realise the description probably fits), but... I mistakenly took a call from the club the day before and again tipped in for the raffle thing that I never get any joy from either so that just increased my sense of frustration. Anyway some rather limited observations FWIW. Pregame warm ups. Jeff Garlett and Dean Kent need to practice kicking sodas 30 meters out in the V. We do not do the basic things well. I'm prepared to cut Hogan some slack in his second game, but these two are experienced players and to miss what should be absolute gimmes in footy terms was simply not good enough. We go in 27 points up rather 42 points up - scoreboard pressure counts and I've no doubt at half time that the Giants think they're only playing the demons and about how they towelled us up both times last year and believe they're still in the contest and they're right. Secondly it wasn't so much a lack of genuine pace (which has been addressed somewhat) it was more simply our lack of intent. Not once did a Melbourne player line up a GWS player and sit them on their arse (i'm not talking dirty tactics, just hard contested footy) they brushed through tackles and we simply failed to stand up to their pressure. They ran with impunity through the middle of the ground and were able to dob goals from the fifty because there was no point trying to hit up Cameron who was well and truly beaten by Tommy Mac. Mumford is along with Sandi is competing for the best ruckman in the comp (probably better in terms of physical presence and importance to his side). I was really hoping when he left Geelong we'd get him. He is easily GWS's most important player. There is no way they would have won yesterday if he didn't play. Jamar was Jamar and he battled manfully, but he wasn't helped because our mids just couldn't get near the ball, he doesn't get a lot of possessions but outside of Dawes who really struggled to impose himself he's really our only physical presence on the ground. I also think it is why Spencil will be persisted with for a while as he is aggressive and physical. We are a better football side than this time last year and substantially better than two years ago, but we are still no where near having the consistency required. We drop off the pace far too easily and we have too many players who are simply not hungry enough and drop their heads way too quickly. I think we will improve as the year goes on, but I'm envisaging as part of Roos/Goodwin's realistic appraisal of our list that there are probably 5-6 of our regular starting 22 last year that are playing their last season in Melbourne/Casey colours. As Roos said we need more talent and I'd expect a few to be offered up to get what we need. We need someone like a Josh Kennedy almost as much as we need a Dylan Shiel. Tommy Mac would be one of the best backs going around ATM. He dominated yesterday and apart from Cameron's freakish goal and a couple of low worm burners onto his chest when we were being overrun beat him convincingly. If he continues in this vein he will be a genuine bona fide A grader, along with Salem who is well on track to be as well. I think Hogan is something special, his game for a second game player will probably be largely overlooked, but he is going to be our first genuinely elite player in quite a while and hopefully one of Brayshaw or Petracca (or both) can join him. And for some perspective an arguably stronger Suns outfit than the one we played was beaten by the wooden spoon favourites at home, maybe we buttered them up for them, maybe...

I may be going out on limb here but IMO we were out-coached. If we didn't go in too tall we were certainly too tall when Tomlison went off and Wilson came on in the 2nd qtr. They then played outside footy while we stuck to inside footy. Momentum swing started here. But by the end of the 2nd qtr we should've figured out that wasn't working. 3rd qtr we stuck to inisde game. Momentum swing becomes an avalanche. 4th qtr players and coaches looked anaesthetized. 2nd half coaches box options: - taking off a tall for Brayshaw - a bit of old fashioned flooding the backline to stop the momentum - putting speedy player(s) behind the ball. (Watts & Garlett maybe, God knows they were wasted in the fwd line). - heavily tagging the more damaging GWS players (a bit of a heavy knock to them maybe ) - getting our players to feed off Mummy - blocking the exits from the stoppages - etc These wouldn't have saved the game but would have saved the massive embarrassment, loss of confidence, belief etc. Added to the selection of players underdone/recovering (Howe, Vince, Dawes, Kent - head knock last week) the coaches had a poor round 2. I hold coaches as responsible as the players.

2 Rounds in: TACKLES Bontempelli ~ 20 Dahlhaus ~ 17 Honeychurch ~ 13 Wallis ~ 12 Minson ~ 12 Jong ~ 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Jones ~ 8 Tyson ~ 5 Cross ~ 5 Tyson and Cross 5 in 8 quarters, Brayshaw 11 in 4. Nothing else needs to be said. If Cross isn't tackling I'd rather have the speed of Kennedy-Harris.

I thought Watts had a go. He is clearly a changed man, and en route to a breakout year.

1st half - Roos can coach 2nd half - Roos can't coach

Roos needs to pull back on the references to a "lack of talent". It's up there with Neeld's age and games experience excuses and I don't want to hear it anymore. There is enough top end talent in the squad. Just get on with it Paul.

So Clark received medical advice that he had to leave the club to get better. Of course that didn't stop him coming back to us and using our facilities and getting one on one coaching sessions from our footy and fitness coaches to get him back up to an acceptable level. But his doctor said not to come back? Or was it because the club was offering him about a half of what other clubs were giving? https://www.storyarts.org/library/aesops/stories/boy.html