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So old McDonald had a farm after all.

YES I REMEMBER - he got tackled. He was awarded a free kick for in the back. He bounced straight up and disposed of it. That is all that happened on that day. Why do people talk about it as if he was confined to a wheelchair for life, it really pizzes me off

There wont be any changes, and considering we almost beat Port in Adelaide im not sure what changes you would want anyway

Some future recruits going through their paces

What are list sizes these days? 38 players? ROK could easily fit onto our list, if he is good enough to make his way into our best 22 is another thing entirely, but if the body is sound, he might add significant value to the club in terms of training standards, assisting younger players on the list playing down at Casey etc. He is said to be a consumate professional in regards to preparation etc similar to Crossy, and people are moaning cos he can't get a gig in the Sydney best 22? Seriously? I doubt if 5 of our players would get a spot in the best 22 at Sydney. I don't think age is an issue, if the body is sound, the player and club is willing, and he can play a role then I don't think it's such a stupid call for 1 year contract.

No, no, and no. He's no Dustin Fletcher. Had a great career, but it's over.

I guess when lifting someone by the throat - balance is important...

Then just hire him as a coach...

1 year as a playing development coach sitting up forward? would bring experience, leadership and another insight into the swans culture, players would learn a lot about training standards, having a clean lifestyle and what it takes to become a hard work based star, I have never thought of O'keefe as super talented but works as hard as anyone.

Pretty sure we have come out well on top with Vince.

I think Roosy will give serious consideration to offering ROK a one year contract. I was against it initially but if it may actually be a punt worth taking. Sadly we need to keep filling the senior leadership void until we have a set of leaders to take the club forward. That is just the product of poor decisons in the past. If he's getting 30 touches a week in the seconds he can at least still run, and he's obviously twice the player that Byrnes or Rodan were, albeit a depleted version. Not a great deal to lose imo.

Simple solution. MFC pre-season is moved to the Big Island come 2016-2021

I think it's really poor form to give the bloke a backhander when he's calling it quits.

More than a good guitarist 'chook', definitely a hall of famer...but yep wasn't known for his footy skills.

Mainly the former. He won't be a certain starter. He will at least provide some competition for the youngsters and could be part of a transition towards a coaching role. The young players need players to show them how to train and play football. Coaches can only do so much. Experienced peers are vital and we are very thin on the ground. It's a yes from me. One year contract. This isn't Rodan or Byrnes. This guy was a star of the comp and his body is still holding up. He's someone you want at your club if you are in the MFC's position.

Exactly, and that's why we won't get him. We're going along just nicely, but you can't help to think IF Wines was in our team. Some people are just stuck on the Toump v Wines debate, time to move on, Jimmy still has time and he could well end up being a gun. Time will tell.

Players want their cake and to eat it as well. We want certainty but we are not prepared to give certainty to our employer. Where is the fairness in that?

You can't be serious, we were crap at tanking, we almost got caught. Carlton were much better, an assistant coach admitted it and they still did not get charged. I prefer the late season list management, which may inadvertently lead to losing the odd game ensuring a better draft pick. (The bottom six sides all do it)

Have to give Misson a ton of credit for our smaller than normal injury list this year. Can't remember any soft tissue injuries which reflects highly on the fitness department. I can now see why he's so highly rated in the industry. Hope we can keep hold of him for a few more years.

I could never understand why Lyon wanted him. I guess Lyon's wondering about that himself, now.

Couldn't disagree more with this statement - Never should a game of AFL representing the Melbourne Football Club be classed as "meaningless"> and please explain the 5 hour flight being far from ideal ??? do all WA teams only give debut games for home games????? I'd would bloody walk - swim - crawl to Nepal if that offered me one bloody game !

Nutbean, it's just as amusing that every time in post about Frawley, yours is the next one in line. We can transfer this to the Frawley thread, but I do have a question: When you've seen Frawley play this year, have you seen anything to suggest that he lacks urgancy, heart or a desire to do everything he can to improve himself and our side? I certainly have and so have plenty of others that I've spoken to. This is coming from a member of our leadership group. And I think, whilst not as severe as Sylvia's lack of care or effort, it's there. It hangs around. It lurks. And it gives me a sick feeling in my stomach. Do you understand or get that the MFC need to rid themselves of any signs of that type of onfield behaviour? ESPECIALLY from a senior leader? I'm absolutely sure that PR would understand the whole thing is complex and players that have been around the MFC for 6 + years and who have a limited capacity to think may find it difficult to 'change' what have now become conditioned and ingrained training and playing habits. Frawley is another we must move on. For various reasons, but in my opinion the main one is that he still possesses a bit of the virus. No team within the AFL has dropped to the depths that we have over the past 5 years, nor have any displayed or given life to a culture and environment so toxic that the effects can still be seen in the way some players still carry themselves. That is all that matters here. Frawley will not change. And at our club, right now, at this point, we need players who haven't been part of that toxic bubble. Sure, Frawley is a great fullback. And he'd be absolutely perfect for a team that has a terrific set of leaders and a really strong and professional environment and culture. But for us, Frawley will continue to waft which will ultimately have an impact on the development of our younger players and will only prove harder for the MFC to completely break the shackles. Let him go, and the chance for further rejuvenation to our list and club is ten-fold. We'll have options to bring in a gun, bring in more quality through the draft or trade for a couple of handy additions that will add more to our club, environment and culture than what Frawley will.

our defence is 6th-8th in the comp but our offence is putrid. Bit of a coincidence we lost Clark and Hogan at the start of the year. Had that not happened we would probably be about 9th on the ladder so don't get all preachy on us

I read something the other day in one of the papers that said people should just pick their 40 favourite members of the Liberal party and send them their resume each month.

Plus incentives for number of games, B&F finish, front loading etc etc

O'Keefe will still play another 2 years, he is a natural footballer who apparently lives a VERY clean lifestyle. Having guys like Cross and O'Keefe on our list, is our way of teaching kids an AFL way of life - like Ablett does on the GC. We need to fast track our youth, having older heads around is essential.

Cross and O'Keefe - couldn't think of 2 better guys to set the tone on the training track.

Not necessarily. Jack was by all accounts hanging around the club and i could see him as 16 year old getting all fired up about lack of effort. Joke btw

If I were a betting man I'd confidently put $s on ROK becoming a Demon next year it's a no-brain er to me.

This concept of protecting him from injury so he can do a full preseason is dumb. When did he hurt his back?

I have it on good authority that Cale Morton is still a dud.

This sucks. Seems that very similar representations were made by the club to Rory Sloan, only for him to be overlooked and then recruited by the Crows. What the hell was the club doing during those years?! No wonder we were a complete basket case before Roos/PJ. I wonder if we could get Stef Martin back ...

Don't understand the logic of not playing Hogan if he is ready and bye all accounts is desperate to play. Who knows what the future holds but your first AFL game is every kids dream , he's worked hard for 7 month's ,so reward the kid , play him, if only for the experience - The West Coast game seems like the perfect opportunity. Say he plays against WC and kicks a couple in front of his family and friends , we win - I go ape sh*t in the crowd with a couple of long suffering WA based Dees supporters , we take that in to the last round and nock of North full of confidence for 2015 - guaranteed an extra 5 thousand members .

promises, sadly mean nothing in modern day sport mate.

On the subject of father/sons (and I know this might be a little premature) but one of my grandsons played in his competition's lightning premiership on Sunday and I've been flicking through the programme and come up with an interesting name for the South Melbourne Under 9 Whites - Tiernan Stynes. There's a lot of water to flow under the bridge and it must be so hard for the little bloke without his dad but what a great story it would make if he ran onto the G one day in red and blue with the number 11 on his back.

I have no hate for him - I save that for the maggots, and the drug cheats - but must agree with nut bean that he is the most disappointing, and frustrating, player I have seen in over half a century following this club (maybe Tilbrook excepted). He seriously could have been a superstar - perhaps he thought that he could be without any hard work. I am still uncertain if his major failing was his laziness or lack of intelligence.

PRELUDE: As many of you know I have been a strong advocate of Sydney's Tom Mitchell, I wrote a thread to target him prior to his AFL debut and have continued to raise the point that he should be in our sights. In that regard I have found it strange that a player like him, who is constantly performing in the seconds at a high level can not crack into the senior side of Sydney while the likes of Brandon Jack and Zac Jones (haven't performed as highly in the seconds) have continued to get games ahead of him. It's only made me speculate that maybe he has refused or delayed contract talks until the end of this year (currently being his third season) when he most likely falls out of contract. Due to this lack of senior games and my somewhat obsession it caused me to follow him in the NEAFL and in doing so I have come across yet another quality young player that is certainly worth targeting. His name is Shane Biggs. Related Tom Mitchell thread: http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/33604-a-target-in-tom-mitchell/ BIOGRAPHY: Shane BIGGS: Age 22, Height 187 cm, Weight 84 kg. http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/player-profile/shane-biggs Third season at the Swans, originally selected at pick 13 of the 2012 Rookie Draft. Made his AFL debut in round 23 of 2013 and in total had three senior games (two during the 2013 finals). Will be out of contract at the end of this year and will either need to be elevated to the senior list or delisted. We should put forth a proposed trade that should see him come cheap (3rd or 4th round pick) and here's why. NEAFL statistics (averages for 12 games total with 1 goal total): 32 disposals, 21 kicks, 10 handballs, 5 marks, 2 tackles, 0 HO, 1 FF, 1 FA, 3 I50, 5 R50. * Before people get on their high horse saying "It's the NEAFL - a sub par competition equivalent to the VFL reserves", I rate him so highly because his numbers are close to Tom Mitchell's, and Ryan O'Keefe's while higher than the likes Jonathan O'Rourke. Mitchell's NEAFL stats (averages for 5 games total, with 6 goals total): 35 disposals, 14 kicks, 21 handballs, 6 marks, 5 tackles, 0 HO, 1 FF, 1 FA, 5 I50, 1 R50. O'Keefe's NEAFL stats (averages for 8 games total, with 4 goals total): 30 disposals, 16 kicks, 14 handballs, 5 marks, 9 tackles, 0 HO, 2 FF, 2 FA, 5 I50, 2 R50. O'Rourke's NEAFL stats (averages for 8 games total, with 4 goals total): 26 disposals, 13 kicks, 14 handballs, 6 marks, 3 tackles, 0 HO, 1 FF, 1 FA, 4 I50, 1 R50. Here is also a list of disposals stats BIGGS collected per game: Rd.1 = 29, Rd.2 = 28, Rd.3 = 31, Rd.4 = 29, Rd.5 = 25, Rd.6 = BYE, Rd.7 = 30, Rd.8 = 42, Rd.9 = BYE, Rd.10 = 26, Rd.11 = 28, Rd.12 = 32, Rd.13 = 30, Rd.14 = 50. OVERALL I think he could be a very good pick up at a very cheap price (3rd or 4th round pick). I would certainly have him on the list ahead Blease, Tapscott, Strauss, Nicholson, and Byrnes. Some old footage but shows he also has some dash about him:

131 games premiership player Thanks for your contribution Shannon!

Losing Colin for Bernie was a great deal... Speaking about Sylvia, who has had a disappointing first season in the west, Lyon said: "He needs to go back (to the WAFL) and deliver actions that will build trust within the match committee that will select him and, more importantly, his teammates. "He's played a certain way for a long time and he needs to shift, because we're not bending to Col. Col will bend to us. He knows that and he understands that." http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-07-30/teams-fremantle-v-carlton

the thing we still need most, apart from good players, is on-field leadership. We have the off-field happening atmo, & we do have some leaders but most were drafted by us & have learn't from within our weak old culture. if we are to fully eradicate the old ways, we need to bring in Old Heads who are from great cultures & are strong of mind & will, & mature level headed enough to direct & teach quietly. Couldn't do better than RO'K imo... And If I had my way I would put him on 2yrs from the start, as a player & assistant. I sense he'll be able to play a few games for us each of the next 2 seasons. 13 -15 next year would be great, & if he could stretch it out for a further 10, in 2016, that would be fabulous. Not to mention the games he plays as a playing-assistant at Casey as well, with our kids developing down there under the guidance of a great 300 game player & role model. just sayin...

Was mentioned on the footy show that Ryan O' Keefe still wants to play on next year and could be possibility and most likely be at another club. Personally the success of Daniel Cross this year will be appealing to Roosy and co. It also showed that once Cross was out of the team it left a huge hole in our midfield in terms of leadership and experience. His experience will be so valuable for our team.

Well done, Shannon! Has clearly been a committed club man who gave his all at both Geelong and Melbourne. Thanks for your contribution to the MFC, and all the best for the next phase of your life. If you tackle it in the same way you tackled your footy, you will be a great success!

And that's his fault is it? He was one of the most maligned players on our list who gave it a real crack everytime he took the field. It is hardly his fault that he was firstly recruited and secondly given games. I have nothing but respect for the guy and wish him well in whatever he does next.

Really who for? Played the last couple of years there.Anyways well done byrnesy, squeezed out every talent he had. 131 games and two flags with one of the greatest teams in the decade is a mighty fine effort! Hopefully he succeeds in whatever path he chooses.

Look I'm not going to carry on about it, but it's not about whether he reads it, it's about paying respect where it is due (and I acknowledge you did in your post - but the right doesn't correct the wrong). I don't think being on a discussion forum changes when a comment is appropriate or when it isn't - there has been and will be plenty of opportunities to put forth views on how he went at the MFC, I think the timing is wrong. Just my view. I'd prefer this wasn't turned in to a fight, please.

Top bloke, who was probs finished when we signed him. But, he kicked a few goals when a lot of other players couldn't last year. Won a flag, can retire very happy. Well done.

This thread desperately needs some GNF..

He does not have to do anything of the sort. You determine how much confidence you have in him. He does not have to do a damn thing to inspire you. It is by his actions you shall know him...or that sort of thing. Example a = GNF. If he said we'll have a flag by 2015, I'd be placing bets now. He has earnt that by being consistent and getting hard-to-predict things right from a long way out. That is how you know what to believe.

I confirm everything that I have earlier said in this thread several months back. The prospect of 11 remains in play. PJ, PR and the club will say nothing and even go as far as playing games to keep people off the trail as the chance of success is stronger if the pressure on him remains low. I was recently told the move back to Perth was partly to ensure that he did not attract this attention and thus pressure. It was also to give him time away from everything to continue his recovery and to give him time to assess what he wanted. Clark has not given up the dream of playing senior football for Melbourne again. He has been training on a Misson derived program in Perth. He must first prove a minimum level of mental and physical fitness, he must then prove the desire to return is strong enough. His pending return to Melbourne is a very good sign and he will now start to slowly ramp up training, but don't get carried away, Clark still has a long way to go. Like Frawley that club just don't know whether he will or will not be on the list next year. If he plays again it will only be for the Dees.

I did a bit of searching and all reviews indicated that the DVD only covers the opening ceremony (on disc 1) and the athletes parade (disc 2); no closing ceremony footage. Also, it was filmed in 4:3 format and not widescreen which was a pretty dumb move.