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The stepping up of the PR war has been quite extraordinary and naturally the Murdoch empire whose Chief Executive, one Robert Thomson directs News Corp from New York and is a devoted Bomber fan, has been to the fore of that campaign. Earlier this week News Limited publications sensationally revealed AFL chief medical officer Peter Harcourt's speech at a FIFA anti-doping sports conference in Zurich last November where he spoke of the AFL's suspicions of Essendon's illegal use of peptides and how blood samples were sent by ASADA to Cologne for testing. The Hird camp maintains that Harcourt's revelations are proof of some illegal joint investigation between ASADA and the AFL. Last night on AFL360 the two hosts were involved in a discussion about the fact that the samples were negative i.e they showed nothing irregular in the players' blood. Whateley was convinced that this virtually exonerates the players and maintained indignance on their behalf. Robinson grinned along in agreement. They miss the entire point of why world sport needs a stringent anti doping code with strict liability and an across the board standard of proof that will differ from the sovereign laws that apply to various countries around the world. We need these laws because of sports scientists who operate ahead of the game with their technology and science to achieve a competitive advantage for their clients. Let's take the case of a mythical athlete who I will call Lance A. In late 2011 and early 2012 he undertakes a supplements programme supervised by sports scientist D. He is injected with an untested drug called UBeaut which aids muscular development and also ingests a masking agent called Zorro which makes it difficult for current testing technology to detect the presence in Lance A's system of UBeaut and any other chemicals he's been taking along the way. Zorro is also a prohibited substance. Then in July, 2012 USADA take Lance A's blood sample. You can be pretty certain that in August, 2012 the test results will come back negative because they don't even have a test for UBeaut. As technology improves - perhaps in five year's time, a laboratory might be able to detect the presence of UBeaut and/or Zorro in the blood sample if someone cares to look at that time but for now, Lance A is happily going about breaking world records in the 50k walk and living the high life off the back of million dollar endorsements from some chocolate bar company while his rival Fred B, a clean athlete struggles and has to sell some of his trophies just to make ends meet. How Did Lance Armstrong Avoid a Positive Doping Test? That is why the WADA Code doesn't just apply to impose sanctions on athletes who provide positive samples to their blood tests. There are a number of other ways to prove that an athlete has committed an anti doping violation and I have discussed these previously in this thread. Unfortunately, it takes a lot more time and a great deal more detective work via the indirect methods to prove one's case against an offending athlete, especially when you're dealing with a sporting organisation which claims to have "lost" all records relating to its supplements programme except for one convenient vial of the "good UBeaut" which was found in the bootstudder's locker. It's my understanding that ASADA has the power to operate in conjunction with other authorities when investigating suspected offenders but of course, that matter is now in the hands of Middleton J in the Federal Court and thankfully, not with Foxtel, the Herald Sun, the Australian or even the Age.

I really like the new reviews, shows some real truths.

Well he's made the All Australian team, good effort.

But our second round pick will be before theirs, they will need to nominate him with their first Round pick to force our hand with our second round pick. Well that is my understanding of the rules, if they nominate we have to use our next pick after theirs

Good luck to Anthony Morabito....

Interesting how our tribal affiliations colour our opinions. For mine, I'd be sad to see any team disappear from the comp, especially one of the older Melbourne ones. That said, I'd love to see the Bombers slowly crucified, stewing down in the depths, like we have for years. I know it's what everyone here is saying, but the arrogance of that club and its blindness to the effects they are having upon young people staggers me. Bringing in the big legal guns to go through the investigation to find the slightest skerrick of mismanagement of the case and then carrying on as if they are victims of one of the great injustices of all time.....jeez, what a pack of creeps. Kind of turns me off sport, actually. BTW, I've been engrossed by this thread. Thanks to all contributors, especially WJ. Great work.

True but AD would have covered his rear better if he had called all the clubs. I'm reminded if the old Jewish joke about the man who murders his parents and asks for mercy from the judge because he is an orphan. Essendon have taken that to a new level.

Curiouser and curiouser. So they know what they stuck into their players' bodies and they "think" it's all hunky dory? So why are they in court? Why are they challenging the investigation? Why are the players not answering the show-cause notices with the simple statement that as far as they and their club is concerned they were given stuff that was all legal and here's the list provided by Paul Little and Bomber Thompson just to prove it? Why the farce of the last year and a half? Why is James Hird in Paris? Why was Robson sacked? Why are they saying in their defence to the Weapon's action that he didn't provide a safe environment? WTF? The BS meter at Essendon is off the wall!!!

As For Little saying how dare Harcourt mention the word Cancer in a medical conference, I say how dare you not mention it to the players and their parents. Harcourt was discussing the evils of drugs with other medical people and clearly sharing info at a medical conference. That's what the medical profession does to try and improve their treatment of sick people. No individual was named. The AFL is at least trying to care for the player's health by monitoring them. That is far better than waking up one day with an incurable disease, caused by a drug you were told to take, when perhaps an early detection may have prevented that scenario and even been preventable. You should be ashamed Little, you too Doc Reid and every other individual responsible, who is now trying to cover their own skin. This should be about the players and their health. The club and its personnel responsible for this and those now trying to cover it all up can go to hell.

fwiw, emma quayle believes we'll be using a third rounder on him.

Wj. Big kudos. I'm loving your posts on this issue. By far the best and most useful stuff I've read on this issue. Not trying to be ironic but getting good reliable info from what is essentially an alternative media source shows why mainstream media is under so much pressure and also shows up how poor much of it is

Be patient grasshopper Hogan will come in soon. This season is all about Roos finding out who can and can not play his game plan. IMO I am sure that he knows the Toump and JKH can play his game plan but is making them work for senior selection unlike ever before to set the standard. It is frustrating but i have full confidence in Roos.

DemonAndrew, don't lose sight of the fact that the use by individuals of recreational drugs is in a different category to programmes involving the use of performance enhancing drugs. Both are a problem and their use problematic but one issue should not be used to muddy the waters or be used in a PR campaign involving the other.

someone like brad Scott is the last type of coach I want

Fair dinkum unbelievable! Essendon players shrug off cancer talk First it was Little and now it's Bomber Thompson telling the world that they know what the players were injected with on thousands of occasions after we've all been led to believe that the records have been lost or eaten by Hirdy's dog (except for that one bottle labelled "good thymosin" that mysteriously turned up in someone's locker at about 3.00am after Dank's Tb4 goof in the Baker & McKenzie interview). I'm looking forward to the release of the documentation that proves what he's saying, which of the supplements actual aids the treatment of cancer and why they were treating supposedly healthy footballers with the stuff.

Surprising then that he was a grand finalist midfield coach. Even more surprising that Ross Lyon would employ someone like that. Doesn't strike me as the type that suffers fools too well.

I have some vague recollection of a sports conference in Johannesburg and the issue being discussed. The funny thing abut Harcourts comments is they are completely spot on and his views are shared by most footy fans. Its actually refreshing to hear comments from an AFL person sans the usual spin

I am posting from Fiji where l am a volunteer with Projects Abroad (June-August) on a Shark Conservation Project. Tomorrow l am catching the bus into Suva to watch the Cats play the Tigers in their Aussie Rules Grand Final! This year, l have also posted from Cyprus, Maui and Hong Kong and last year l posted from Venice, Berlin, Munich, London, New York and San Francisco.

I think Roos maintains his wanting to win every game and picks his best side to do so

- Blease/Tapscott being mentioned in the best each week but not a gig ? - JKH getting 30 touches but not being elevated ? - Salem having a modest return but still retaining his spot ? - Toumpas not being given the same leniency as Salem ? Some here are scratching their heads at what they see as odd but it just tells me one thing. We make a subjective assessment on what we see in the seniors each week and some have the extra insight of actually watching Casey. We don't have real insight into training, we don't have insight into the physical loads on young players and how they are tracking, we have zero insight into discussions between players and coaches and we don't know what the exact roles given to each players are and the coaching panels expectations. So do I have faith in this coaching panel ? Absolutely. I therefore must be missing a piece of the puzzle as to why Salem has had such a modest return ( granted - every time he gets the ball something happens) and is getting a game as opposed to some at Casey who appear to be banging the door down.

The PR war isn't confined to Newscorp either. Lawyer and Deakin University lecturer Martin Hardie who has worked as an adviser for the EFC has come up with this gem as reported by Jon Pierik - AFL chief medico Peter Harcourt may have breached Essendon drugs agreement, says lawyer I love these "non-disparagement clauses" which in this case means that the AFL isn't allowed to make disparaging remarks about parties that have been found to have committed breaches of governance serious enough to have warranted a $2m fine, being kicked out of a finals series, loss of draft picks and suspension of staff and officials just so that the guilty parties can come out of it all smelling like roses. So what does the article prove about the matter at hand? That the AFL is no less grubby than the EFC which Hardie slavishly follows? I'll say one other thing as well even though I haven't seen the settlement agreement which Hardie claims was breached by Harcourt. In all probability, it will also contain a "confidentiality" clause which prevents the parties and their agents from disclosing its contents. And if I'm right, then who is guilty of breaching the confidentiality clause in the settlement terms? Anyway, it's all just another side issue. Hopefully, we'll get to the gist of the matter some day soon.

No, because the nominations are done earlier, therefore we already know if we're using that pick on him or not.

Toump could have used the same belief in him as Salem is getting. He got dropped after Weagles game with 17 touches??? Comes in as emergency v Richmond and gets 15 touches while Salem has 8?? Maybe a couple more games in the firsts and he wouldn't be struggling with his confidence in the 2's like he is now. Wondering how he gets dropped and others have faith shown in them. One rule for him and another for Salem by the looks of it.

So Doc Reid approved everything, and yet wrote a letter saying otherwise? No make a sense to me.

Super stuff Mr. Positivity. A young bloke, who is a huge part of our future, signs a new deal and there are still some who have to bring the tone down.

$1.50 in loose change and a lifetime supply of KFC for his father.

I've been weighing up my options and damn it all, I'll do it! $750,000k pa + incentives to get my team out of the mire, it's worth the pay cut. When do I start?

Four more years he roamed the land till his legs was worn away. Then he bummed around from town to town: "Has a stranger passed this way? Vivian Stanshall (Bonzo Dog Doo Dah Band): "Bad Blood" Not sure that Essendumb have too many legs left to stand on either.

Tapscott has only had one game of note, which was last week. As a result of that he's an emergency. He's clearly being asked to do more running, and once he does it consistently then he'll get a game. Blease has problems with defensive intent and consistency of work rate. It has been a theme through nearly all the reviews. Until he does that then Roos won't be able to trust him to perform a role in the AFL.

Essendon Bombers say AFL flouted ‘its duty of care’ This is brilliant. The AFL flouted its duty of care. Amazing. Pure champagne comedy.

I take WJ's point and for me he writes so well on this . I would just like to add, that if this craziness hadn't been picked up, it probably would be a race by all clubs to get the best illegal enhancing gear. All the sideshows and PR in the world don't cover up the wrongdoing and if the proper decision isn't arrived at, then the AFL and for that matter all Australian sport, could be rebranded and come into the East German and Chinese range for sporting integrity. If Essendon don't pay the price , all of a sudden it becomes a way bigger issue.

I rarely watch anything live so many adverts destroys the program. PVR my favourites and then watch them without ads in 66% of the time.

It is only a matter of time until Paul Little or Hird calls for Essendon to be reinstated into the 2013 finals.

When I first saw Bolton interviewed prior to coaching Hawthorn I thought it was a late April Fools joke. He reminded me of myself. But how can you not be impressed with what he did with a (albeit champion) team at the time ravaged with injuries and seemingly heading for a slump. Later we heard from those he has coached he is a lot tougher and switched on that his persona suggested. 5 wins from 5 and he slips back into obscurity. He has to be in the mix.

Trade. Bird in hand is worth two in the bush. Sure Petracca is a bit taller and heavier than those guys and therefore stronger in the air but he's not all that tall when translating to AFL. He's not that fast and whilst he's got himself fit he's probably a few preseasons away from being a midfielder at AFL level. He's good but I think you'd take an almost certain B+ player at worst who's already had a few seasons in to him like Shiel or Treloar rather than the risk on Petracca.

Really good news he has signed an extension until end of 2017. It would have been disastrous to lose him after his first contract without even playing a game after investing so much into getting him. Hopefully his back injury doesn't cause him long term issues and we can watch him become the gun he promises to be. Exciting!

Yep. Darkhorse, you've hit the nail on the head. Little's basic argument: we don't know what we took, but whatever it was, it was harmless - oh and by the way, here's a writ to say that your lawyer had his wig on backwards and the whole investigation is therefore null and void and its all your fault and we are the most persecuted people since - oh, i dont know, Lindy bloody Chamberlain. 'Independent medical advice' my ar&$e. As Darkhorse said, from who? What did you tell them you took? I'm sure my doctor would be thrilled if I came along and said er I've swallowed the contents of the cleaning cupboard - no idea what was in there, but that's okay, isn't it?

Open letter to members Paul Little ~ Funny but I thought that Essendon didn't know what supplements the players had taken so how can Little say he has independent advice on the their effect on the players. Are Essendon members dumb enough to cop this garbage?note: A rhetorical question is one that is asked merely for effect with no answer expected. Caro on Paul Little ~ Essendon chairman says Hird will return a better person

Nothing changes same rules as always apply with legal matters INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN BANKRUPT

Lucky there are no more games left in the champs! But yes I wonder how brave clubs are. It's not just whether St Kilda or GWS think he's worth pick 20 either. It has to be whether they think out of whoever they rate on their draft list he'll be the best one there. For them to nominate him at pick 20 they'd have to be pretty confident that none of their top 10-15 guys would fall down. In fairness to other clubs the father son bidding should come before the pick. When the Saints get their pick 20 that's when they should decide if they'll bid for Stretch. You can't bid a draft pick when you don't know it's value.

Thought there would have been a few more changes tbh but hey I will leave it in the very capable hands of Roos and co.

Roos must have been pleasantly surprised that the team started playing much better once he was moved forward. Roos would also have confused himself by playing Frawley to intentionally make him play worse and therefore reducing his value as a free agent which would directly influence the amount of compensation the club he coaches gets. You know, because it makes no sense.

Stretch will need his food finishing skills ;-)

To me it's the uncertainty that he has created that's the problem. The club needs unity at the moment, perhaps more than ever and having one of the leaders showing publicly that he's not certain of the direction of the club is undermining the recovery process we are going through. We need all at the club pulling in the same direction and we certainly don't need this uncertainty, stay, go, whatever just do it.

Just a mild case of the Syndrome. It's fine.

Think of it as a "F-off WA clubs" premium. I'm more than comfortable with it.

I steadfastly refuse to believe it is all about previously recruiting poor talent. Jetta was a poor recruit, pederson a bad pick up - wait a second - one preseason with a decent coachng team who know how to coach and develop and a few previous poor choices are looking not so poor and this is after 8 months. Paul Roos has had a constant theme -" I need to teach these players to be AFL footballers". We are seeing the early fruits of his labour and it leaves me in no doubt that this education and development has been sadly missing in previous years. I will now exit myself from the debate on whether we recruited poorly previously as I don't know if Roos would have recruited them in the first place and more importantly whether he could have turned them into footballers.

Our current recruiting manager is Jason Taylor. His fingerprints are all over Salem, Tyson, JKH, Riley, Georgiou and the other rookies. I find it surprising (even astounding) that posters find it difficult to separate one recruiter from the next. Taylor didn't recruit Morton, nor for that matter Hogan. Why are you (Fence and others) so quick to lump him in the same basket as our former questionable recruiters - as though he's on some mission to assemble soft runts! I don't get it. I'm pretty happy with the return so far and it's only year one. Let him make his mark!

I like all the secondary and ancillary benefits of developing a relationship with the Uni.But you dont need to be there and the supposed exposure is highly questionable. A redeveloped Goschs with appropriate VISIBLE branding would be seen by Millions. Better to stick a bloody great billboard on teh way from the Airport welcoming all and sundry to MELBOURNE...home of the Mighty MELBOURNE Demons.

I think it's a great idea. The Uni of Melbourne is a leading, actually, it's THE leading university it Australia. It is rich with history, and (in it's own category) it IS Melbourne. There are a lot of similarities between the Uni of Melbourne and the MFC. It will give us exposure to a whole new potential membership base, where the "local members" won't have to drive an hour out the road to feel part of the club. Universities like the Uni of Melbourne attract experts of their field. For us to have access to some of these experts, through sports science/medical/etc is potentially a massive boost that our FD could have access to, without the need to spend millions of dollars getting it. Is it building our "Melbourne" brand in the CBD? Well, it aint a Collins Street address, so I guess not directly. But learning from an organisation that leverages the word "Melbourne" in their name on an international level is something that we could benefit from. I'll watch this space, but I'm very interested with the initial reports, and look forward to hearing about this in more detail.