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The Spencer hate from last night's game is a historical one. People just remember him being unco and therefore can't recognise what he did. He was excellent last night rucking basically unchanged thanks to Fitzy's injury. Did very well and worked hard. I agree that Gawn should come in, but I think that Pederson may play back if McDonald can't play. I'm not a fan of just plonking a ruckman in the square full time, but it's clear that we need at least some form of target for a long kick inside 50. If it doesn't work then sub him out.

Those wanting to bring in an 18 year old rookie ruckman have a loose grip on reality.

We've got something here...

Might be worth a look - he's a real Ryan O'Keefe type.

Honestly some posters here....pull your heads in Our possessions count has improved, tackling, guys getting their hands on their footy. Look from we're we are coming from getting flogged each week! Our goal kicking was poor & if it was more accurate who knows... You can't fix a train wreck of 5+ yrs in 4-5 months!

Can some one please tell me if you can confidently scream out " ball"now when someone takes on the play and gets nailed? Or do you have to wait till some poor bugger falls on a ball at the same time as 4 others and gets pinged for having the ball almost become part of his body! Rules committee have ruined this area of the game. F ing deplorable tonight!

It's pretty soft to single out Pedersen IMO. We all know he isn't good enough. That isn't his fault, and nor is it his fault that we have literally no over options at the moment. Concentrate on the issues that are actually within the players' control.

That is rubbish, his only problem is some occasional poor and costly disposal. No go, he would run through a brick wall.

Nothing quite like feeling absolutely gutted after Round 1. Year after year after year. Yeah, there were signs of improvement from last year (although could you really get any worse than losing by 321 points in the opening three rounds?) and we were completely down on luck (as usual) with our three key forwards out plus the injury to Fitz before half time, but seriously... This was a very poor St Kilda team without its three best midfielders. I would probably rate their midfield bottom four in the league and without Hayes, Montagna and Steven a clear bottom. Yet they won more contested footy than us and smashed us in the clearances. That's right, the worst midfield in the comp. beat us in the contested footy and clearances. That has nothing to do with missing key forwards. A midfield featuring names such as Curran, Saunders, Newnes and Dunstan beat us in the contests and a dogged tagger in Clint Jones was made to look like a brownlow medallist with 39 touches. St Kilda got the game on their terms early. Numbers back, make it hard for us to find any loose players or space in the forward line (which you need when you have a small forward line) and then break forward to Riewoldt and Maister / Stanley one out. The plan worked a treat for them. Of course we didn't help by moving the ball too slowly at times, delivering the ball poorly inside 50 and then failing to apply enough forward pressure on the way out. I said all week not to play Cam Pederson. But many on here dismissed that, saying they like the contest he brings. Far out, that was one of the most deplorable performances I've seen from a Melbourne player. Gave us absolutely nothing all night, missed two set shots and somehow contrived to miss a goal from 5m out on the run. I don't care if he's our only tall - he can't play forward. So we can rattle off some positives (Watts was superb, Jones and Dunn excellent), but frankly I'm not really in the mood. For me the most upsetting thing is that our one perceived advantage (midfield) didn't pan out that way - we had the cattle tonight to dominate them in midfield but we didn't. We also allowed them to play the game on their terms for pretty much the entire night. Any other team would have smashed St Kilda tonight and to start another season with another shocking performance is just shattering. I thought perhaps for one week in seven years we may actually enjoy footy - obviously too much to ask for a MFC supporter.

Actually didn't play.

Nat Jones was best for me and Lynden Dunn didn't do a whole lot wrong. Wattsy pretty solid also. Not sure what Byrnes brings. I would persist with Blease over Byrnes every day of the week. Hated the result but loved the endeavour! The head hanging which started at half time round one last season was missing which i liked. It's a long road but we are moving forward imo, which is all I'm asking for.

Perhaps what is going on in his personal life is directly affecting his ability to play? And perhaps, just perhaps, it has been his seeming inability to recover completely from his injuries that has put his personal life in a tailspin... in which case it is the club's concern and the club's business to deal with. It leaves me gobsmacked that there are some who just don't get that.

What a difference winning or losing makes. If we had won (which may have happened if we had kicked straight, didn't lose Fitz and most importantly lose McDonald keeping Riewolt in line at a critical time) there would be far less hand-wringing about the mid-field not being on top of the newbies of St Kilda, poor individual efforts and things that went wrong. There would be discussion of it sure and of other deficiencies, but less hand-wringing. Instead we'd be focussing on the amazing skills of Watts and how he looks like a potential superstar now. Those who react like those gutted 12 year old kids are showing the same level of maturity. We cannot expect wins as depressing as that is, we are looking for improvement, who will cut it in the longer term and who won't. I saw a bit of both last night. But whatever happens there won't be linear improvement for the team or individuals, there will be ups and downs. We won't know until well into the season if we are on the right rack. No point in spitting the dummy at round 1.

Is your dummy down there too?

Gary attends most of the games at the G with his kids, so let's leave the bagging for ex players that don't.

What scares me is that GWS and GC have easily leapfrogged us and both teams have much better high level talent than us We might have Jesse Hogan, but then GWS has Cameron and Patton We might have Viney but, then Gold Coast has O'Meara and Martin We are a long way back in every area from every other team

We do this over and over again. Keep eating our own. He effed up. He was reluctant and he never should have agreed to do it, but sh!t happens at footy clubs and he was a great servant and is a great fan now. And I can confirm he watches games and I can confirm he trudges out of the G with the same look of frustration and anger that us 'real' fans do. But keep sticking the knife in - self defeating BS.

Probably one of the best games he's played for the club. 27 touches at 96%. Hope he can carry on with this form throughout the season, he brings a big lift to our midfield.

Angry at Frawley? Grimes overcooked the handpass! He rocketed it to him from a metre away... When only soft hands were needed..

Out played, if we missed just the easy shots we would have beaten them by 5 goals and 100 plus touches, i hate that we lost but i am thrilled with the difference since last year, the effort for four quarters was very solid.

Go figure Paul Roos can't pick a side and was out coached by a first game coach. Really guys go watch the game again. I was disappointed in the loss but saw more then enough good signs. We just have to get a fit Dews and Hogan out on the ground.

We kicked 10 points in a row including two posters from Vince in the 1st quarter. They tried hard all night which I haven't seen for some time from a Melbourne team. Tyson got caught a few times and turned it over about three more. Spencer tried hard but don't think he tapped it to our advantage once. And around the ground was next to useless. Dunn showed a lot. Watts showed a lot but fitness wasn't there in the end. Jones N and M were both pretty good. Vince is a great get. Cross is a workhorse. Turnovers killed us all night. Take where we finished last year, look at our effort - we have improved. Add some first choice players, get rid of some of the NQRs and there is something to be liked. But geez we have a long way to go.

Watts was not timid tonight.

The problem here is that we're always waiting for something. The new coach, new recruit, our best 22 to hit the park, if we get this then this. Life doesn't wait and nothing is ever perfect, we need to perform now without excuses. Last night wasn't good enough plain and simple and if it is a guide to the season ahead we will be lucky to win a game. I just hope it isn't a guide to what's ahead but the evidence to date is not good.

Out: Pederson In: The Pig

With several Carlton supporting friends and family, I've been well acquainted with their saga. Ratten was dealing with a dangerously over-rated list (including in the list's own eyes, shall we say), an interfering board, and all sorts of expectation/entitlement attitude from the Blue's fans. Despite their string of top draft picks, their best 22 had, and still has, a terrible lack of 'completeness'. Many players were deeply damaged by mis-coaching under Pagan and a horrendous party culture that lasted a very long time. Plus, Ratten knows all about being stymied by having a talented but perpetually injured forward, the potently absent Jarred Waite. I'd be comfortable with Ratten at the Demons, with a good support group. Would want to keep Rawlings on long-term for instance. Operating as a succession plan rather than a wholesale turnover helps the continuity enormously, and may mean we get the best of both Roos' and Ratten's professional networks coming on board. That means connections with the Sydney, Carlton, and Hawthorn coaching panels. I'm talking myself into it here, so I'll ease up and just say 'yes, that would be acceptable', especially if it becomes Roos for the three years with Ratten arriving a little early to be a gun midfield coach. We have the cattle to create something potent with some quality coaching in there.

I thought Michie showed some promise in what was effectively his first full senior game of AFL footy. Tyson as I've said before will be a gun, still only a 14 game player and needs to work harder off the ball and tidy up disposal by foot. Reminds me a bit of Sam Mitchell early in his career where he would always back himself on his wrong foot and came unstuck many times, Tyson backed his right in a few times came unstuck on one in particular but had a go later in the game for a good result. All class, will be good to watch him develop.

Grimes used to be a very good contested mark when he first came to the club but you just don't see him do that anymore. I think he is one of the players that Roos refers to when he says they are scarred, he has been through some pretty bad seasons with us and I reckon there a tremendous upside with him.

I have an unnecessarily bad hangover as a direct result of this game!

I had a reaction that I haven't had for a while. At the end I thought "Damn, we should have won that game". And we should have. Over the majority of the game we were the best team. We controlled the ball and gave ourselves opportunities. We were, unfortunately, unable to convert this ascendency into a score. The good thing is that the issues are not long term ones: 1- We had nobody to kick to. This meant that we either had to bomb to midgets, or find a short target. Unfortunately we did neither successfully. Of our goals, only Byrnes' was a result of a pass inside 50, while the rest we running from outside 50 (or a turnover for Toumpas' goal). There's no coincidence that our most productive periods were when Fitzy was playing. 2- We missed a lot of shots for goal. A lot! These can both be fixed in the short/medium term. Kicking 6.15 is an aberration for any AFL team and will be better next week (especially when Vince kicks 1.4!). And we have a promising list of tall forwards, who are unfortunately injured. If you have one of those forwards play then we'd probably be talking about a win. I wasn't sure how to feel last night. I was shitty about losing the game, but I at least know that we are a much better team now. Unfortunately the footy gods conspired to make us lose. But we were the better team.

Overall I see more positives. Bad kicking and bad luck with injured talls gave them the edge. The game was a lot closer than many here suggest. Clearly it is frustrating that we cannot get or keep a decent tall forward on the park.

What happened last night was the worst case scenario. We had no forwards, and then our makeshift forwards were injured + MacDonald. Probably had 7 out of the ten best on the ground...strange game. * Very tough hand we were dealt, a better team manufactures goals...I reckon if the mids, as good as they were, had 10 games together then they may have been able to do it. - Only thing that grated with me was how long Roos persisted with Howe out of the goal square. It makes no sense why Howe was so useless at FF, but he should have been moved up the ground midway thru the second qtr, not late in the third.

Now Sue you and I usually agree but not on this point. Let me start by saying I am rapt we have Roos as a Coach and I am confident he will turn us around over time. He will change the list and culture and game. However, it was abundantly clear to me sitting 75 metres away, how incapacitated Tom was.He was telling a trainer on the ground he could barely run. Everyone at that ground knew he was injured. It was a mistake to leave him on one of the hardest runners and best marks in the game after his injury. Tom should have gone to FF or the FP and otherwise the bench. Just because he is Roos does not mean he cannot be criticized. I think if asked he might even agree. As for hindsight, Coaches act in the minute, when they get it wrong you can always bring up hindsight as an excuse. BTW, after watching the Tigers Nab cup game my son and I wrote off Pedersen finally and for good. Unfortunately due to injuries, the Coach made another mistake and didn't do the same .

we generated 12-13 genuine goal scoring opportunities without our key forwards, smashed them in disposals, it was the injury to Tommy causing the burst from Roo and our indecision, poor decision and finishing that cost us, not a massive error in our structure, and not a lack of effort on our part which is a big step forward

All you whinging bastards need to harden up. Yes we lost but surely we played a better brand of footy than last year. It was easy to see we had no forward structure. Yes it would have been nice to win but I still have faith Roosy has us in the right direction. I believe we will be a better side in the 2nd half of the season. Remember it's not easy adapting to a new game style.

Bit hard on Matt Jones I reckon, he was very good in the second half.

It wasn't that we had no forwards. It was that they hardly moved and when they did either got in each others way or were missed with the kick. Our ability to let StKilda's VFL starting midfield get easy take aways from the centre was deplorable. We couldn't hit the side of the barn forward of centre yet one of our best two disposing mids in Vince played all of the first half in the forward line. Jack Grimes tries hard but is a liability with ball in hand. We played very stationary, predictable football. Watts was excellent as were Dunn and Jones. Those bagging Toumpas need to watch the game and get over wishing for Wines. He works his arse off to make position, is smart with ball in hand and will improve significantly over the course of the season. The key will be to see the learnings from the game, changes made and what they improve next week.

We really missed Cols breakout game tonight

Worst post I've read since last night

Agree. The fact that we had no forwards changed our whole style. We stopped when we got the ball because there was no one up forward and then we turned it over under the pressure.I think we made a huge blunder in selection as well. Picking Gawn and Blease would have given us a target up forward and some pace on the forward line to break up the Saints defence. It would have straightened us up. IMO we would have won the game with one winning key forward on the night. The injuries to Fitz and Tom just killed any chance.

There you have it. The lack of forwards changed our game style and instead of playing on and going forward, we stopped and then either got tackled or just turned it over, with a poor kick or one too many handballs. The Saints on the other hand just rushed the ball forward as quick as possible to Nick and Maister or whichever tall was there. They then nailed a few unlike us.

Got to say, considering how strongly I've expressed my doubts about him, Dunn was very good tonight.

Toumpas and Trengove are still making their way to the change rooms.

....and the ball on a platter. Tonight was another demonstration of the challenge with Howe. Aside from the odd MOTY effort, he just does not get enough of the ball. Tough night tonight but it's his perennial issue.

To those bitching about Howe, he's not - and never will be - a KPF. He's a great marking flanker, and being stuck up there with their first choice defender was never going to work in his favour, especially as it's just too easy for their defence to just manoeuvre him out of position - unless the ball comes in quickly. Howe needs to be 3rd or 4th in the pecking order in the forward line, floating into the midfield, with some space, and with some big contested mark targets to work with/off/around. Disappointed to lose, but the difference was that they had those couple of key marking forwards who were able to make a difference once they were able to get the ball down there. On top of the outs we have, we were really hurt by McDonald and Fitzy going down early on, and it's no accident that the Saints got on top when they went off in the second quarter.

I can smell a meltdown brewing. Melbourne with no talls . We are in the shyte. Champagne for the biggest over reaction and a six pack for the best calm down post.

He worked very hard to provide a handball out of the stoppages, ran his guts out and showed plenty to me, but then there is demonland standards i suppose.

Sometimes I seriously wonder if there is a curse on this club. Tonight is just another occaision. So many get table shots for goal. They pong them from everywhere. Our only key tall forward gets knocked out. Our best defender for their best forward is lame. I could go on. Having said that. Pederson is an absolute liability.

Scorps win after a Neville Jetta goal with a minute to go. Casey Scorpions 3.1.19 7.5.47 7.7.49 11.8.74 Port Melbourne 4.4.28 4.5.29 7.11.53 10.11.71 Goals Gawn 2 Barry Best Blease Hunt Jetta King Salem Smith Tapscott Best Evans Jetta Blease Clisby Gawn Salem

The only thing I hold against Lyon is his role in the selection of coaches. Otherwise, a great servant of the club.