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I do.

Just got back, here's my take. The main difference between the two games (apart from the obvious difference in fatigue level between us and Richmond) was in the forward structure: first game we built a solid forward line around Dawes, Hogan, Pederson and Howe. Byrnes was presenting at their feet, and Kent also looks a likely type playing across the half forward line. Not only is that (sans Clark, obviously) close to our A1 forward line, but Dawes was conspicuous in the way he was directing traffic and making sure we held our structure. We never got pulled out of shape, so there was always something for the midfielders to look up and kick to. A couple of leads and marks from Howe, in particular, looked sharper than any Melbourne side I've seen in ages. In the second game, Dawes didn't play, Hogan was used sparingly, and after Spencer went down, Pederson spent a fair bit of time in the ruck. Suddenly Colin Sylvia was our major marking target across half forward, so the midfield looked a heck of a lot worse, because there was nobody presenting, and no big body for the get-out-of-jail-free kick to a contest. Then the smaller forwards started creeping up the ground going after the ball, and the whole structure collapsed (I was reasonably impressed that the coaching staff obviously adjusted to this and altered things, and the last quarter was significantly better from a structural point of view ... there's an example of game-day coaching from Neeld, if anyone wanted it.) Oh, and Hogan is gonna get me to a bunch of Casey games this year. Loved him. He, Dawes and Clark are (touch wood) going to be pretty incredible.

I have an inside word on Jesse - lets just say he is gonna be a Demon longterm.

I won't be bothering the wife tonight.

I posted this a while ago on Demonology: Imagine a scenario in which there are at least a dozen allegations made in various places about different police officers involved in corruption in the State of Victoria. Now, imagine what would happen if the government called a Royal Commission to selectively investigate the allegations of corruption against one cop and one cop alone and refused point blank to extend the enquiry to police corruption in the State generally. And what if one of those allegedly corrupt cops who the government refused to investigate had a close association with the Premier of the state? You would have to start wondering about who really is the corrupt one in this scenario, wouldn't you?

As I read it, the results from the games were that our opponents kicked one more goal than us in total, in february, when no team was playing at strength. Anyone cracking the sh1ts now has some personal issues that aren't really anything to do with football.

We need to contact CH9 to let them know how much better the show was with the change in the panel.

Despite the media's voracious appetite for tanking stories during the period in which Melbourne was under the gun, last night's revelations on Footy Classified were apparently completely missed by Fairfax Media whose chief football writer is apparently in Singapore (despite extensive research Demonland has been unable to uncover any AFL related activity there). Meanwhile, over at the Herald Sun, they managed to cover Jeff Kennett's views on Andrew Demetriou's handling of the issues pressing the AFL these days but Nick Smart's (the name is surely an oxymoron) article ignored what Kennett had to say about Carlton and the others who "tanked" and how Melbourne and Connolly should feel discriminated against by the AFL - AFL boss Andrew Demetriou's time is up, says Jeff Kennett I suppose Robbo didn't have the time to prepare a double page spread about the Kreuzer Cup and other eye opening games which Tony Liberatore spoke about in that damning interview which now takes on a whole new meaning. Finally, last night's programme really highlighted how disingenuous the On the Couch panel were that night when they asked loaded questions about tanking to a Carlton player of all people and never asked the bleedingly obvious question! Is the Carlton Football Club with all of its poker machines and powerful supporters really too big an organisation for the AFL and most of the media to confront? POSTSCRIPT: Could someone please ring the Age and tell them that there's some footy on at Etihad tonight. I wouldn't want them to miss that too.

I don't know why it's a surprise that Kennett hadn't seen Libba's interview before.I myself had only seen a short grab of the interview before. What I saw last night was completely damning of Demetriou and his underlings at the AFL. To not have investigated Carlton in greater depth after that and now hide their heads in the sand about it but, at the same time, to spend 7 plus months on Melbourne is disgraceful. Those apologists like Wilson and Bartlett in particular who don't want Carlton and Richmond investigated after this week's outcome are disgusting hypocrites.

Haven't heard squat about last night's episode in media coverage so far today. It speaks volumes. We're the patsy. And we've been bent over thanks to our own former disgruntled people and the AFL that Anderson said on outgoing that it was full of integrity, that he was leaving it in a better position. What a load of sh!t. McQueen - Melbourne is the only team investigated because it's the first real case the new integrity unit got their claws into; plus snitches came forward still bristling from 186 and having been moved on by an uncomprimising and ruthless Neeld/Mfc. If you want other teams investigated thoroughly and have any findings; they need to talk to people with long held grudges who got their nose out of joint. Or people who have spoken to Carlton board members....

i thought that was rhyming slang for a second there...... don't worry mate, i was excited too.

Already done more than T$ has in his whole career.

She'll probably want her own privacy too.

Incidentally, Wayne Carey has just said that Watts was "superb" tonight and could be in for an AA season.

The more I think about the VCGLR investigation the angrier I get. There would be countless nightclubs, bars and strip joints right across town that are owned, operated and shaken down by underworld, bikie gangs and crooks. They would no doubt use these facilities to sell drugs, promote prostitution, illegal tobacco and alcohol and god knows what else. They are violent, shady, despicable people who dodge tax by dealing in cash and ruin lives for their own benefit. Yet is there any evidence that the VCGLR are doing anything to proactively address what we all know is out there? Are they moving to revoke liquor and gambling licenses from these venues and people? No. instead they’ll pick off an easy target. A high profile target. A Not for profit football club that exists through nothing more than the good graces of it’s members, members who are prepared to fork out several hundred dollars a year just in the hope that the teams performance gives them some semblance of joy and excitement despite have very little control over what and how the club operates. It’s a disgrace, whether is fizzles out to nothing or not I am fuming…

Great episode, for all of those that missed it, I manged to find it on Youtube;

Unfortunately, there are too many hypocrites in the media who will not allow this story to go much further. For instance, KB poo hooed a caller who raised allegations of "tanking" by clubs other than Melbourne on the basis that the AFL wouldn't investigate because there was supposedly "no evidence". This suggestion is not much less ridiculous than Wilson's (above). As Kennett pointed out the Liberatore comments made it almost impossible for the AFL not to commence an investigation. Of course, KB, like CW has allegiances to Richmond and the Wallace admission is damning in light of the wording of Rule 19 (5A) or its counterpart from that time. If the AFL was serious about integrity and ensuring the due observance of its rules, it would look at the Wallace article and charge the Tigers.

Jeff basically demanded that the Blues be investgated and the Tigers probably as well. He said the Libba statements which he had not seen previously were so far worse and more serious than Brock's, that the AFL would have no choice but to give them the same treatment we got. When Fev's comments were added he was adamant that if the AFL had any integrity they must investigate. Hutchy said on the back of that how can the MFC be the only club dealt with. Lloyd then questioned CW's prior knowledge of the penalties handed down, before the MFC even knew what charges they may face. He said the AFL had leaked and that was an integrity issue. Best Footy Classified episode I have seen, I am keeping it for viewing again. I want to see what the AFL comes up with to avoid investigating a big club.

Jeff Kennett, standing in for the so-called "first lady of football" says Liberatore disclosed a more severe form of tanking than Brock McLean's interview. Backs up what I was told in 2007 by a then Carlton Board member. The Terry Wallace admission was also covered. The AFL has dug a hole for itself and what has been highlighted is the need for an independent government enquiry into this mess. Integrity indeed!!!

who said big fellas take time?

We used to call these games practice matches and they are designed for two purposes; 1. For the coaches to look at the new blood against some opposition 2. For the players to get some dare I say it match practice and get rid of any cobwebs. Nobody gave two hoots who won so long as the games achieved their purpose. They still are practice matches and are played for the same purpose. So why give even one hoot who won? Neeldy and co now have a pretty good idea of the clubs best 22 so I will comment on all things MFC football wise in April and I will forget I have read the inane ramblings here today and will read for the next few weeks. Has anyone heard the expression "March champions"?

Because they're no good? Hasn't been for a few years in Davey's case, and never has been in Dunn's case. Dunn, like Joel Macdonald, is filler. An ok player, warming the spot while we wait for a better player to unseat him. Davey won't get a game; the difference between he and Byrnes was stark.

We lost by two points in the nab.cup. EVERYBODY PANIC

First time I've been excited about anything footy related in months. Jesse Hogan = a reason to still be a Melbourne supporter come 2014, no matter how bad 2013 is!

By what measure is this not prima facie evidence that Carlton and Richmond acted to prejudice the interests of the AFL? If Demetriou is not prepared to institute an investigation then he and the commissioners should resign forthwith. Fitzpatrick is conflicted on this one anyway.

mother-in-law?

It's interesting (read worrying) that the Five things I want are all fundamentals of footy: - Leadership: Not just from our co-captains but from our established players and experienced recruits. There has been a serious leadership vacuum at our club since JMac's awkward sacking. - Hunger: A simple hunger for the ball and therefore the contest. Sadly lacking during the Bailey era and yet to appear on the field under Neeld. - Skills: Our lack of skills is what separates us from the top half of the ladder. The question is: have we drafted unskilled players and, if so, can we work on the skills they have? - Spread: It's the buzz word, but it's the buzz word for a reason. It seems we recruited players with this in mind which is what I'll be looking for tonight. -Delivery into the forward 50: Surely with targets there the duty falls upon our mid-fielders to delivery effectively into our forward half.

As they are all answerable ultimately to the AFL, perhaps he should be asking why Demetriou hasn't tendered his resignation.

Bartlett yesterday said that Carlton weren't investigated because there was no evidence but there was at Melbourne. WRONG KB. The Melbourne investigation was instigated by Brock Mcleans suspicion which on its own was less incriminating or at least the same as what Libba said. Libba's opening up should have set off MORE alarm bells since he was in the coaching department FCS. IIRC he was questioned once (only him) and that was it besides an explanation of the Melb. v Carlton game from Ratten. The AFL's differential treatment of the 2 incidences borders on corrupt.

We've been [censored] canned by supporters of other clubs, including those that tanked and haven't been investigated, so I'm happy for there to be a wide ranging enquiry. This has cost us an enormous amount of time, energy and money so I'd like to see the other clubs put through the ringer as well; you either investigate all or none. The AFL should have called an amnesty and said it may have been done before but pity help anyone that does it again. Our name has been singled out and blackened and I don't want us to stand out as the cheats of the competition I'd like everyone to know it was just standard procedure for clubs that were struggling. I'm over the issue but I would still like the AFL to fess up and admit they got it wrong and we were not alone.

I think the undercurrent of match-fixing and gaming licences is the most significant factor in the whole tanking debate. I think Anderson naively instigated the witch-hunt of the MFC to the horror of the absent Demetriou. He could foresee the likelihood of "tanking" accusations mushrooming into match-fixing, and governmental gaming authorities becoming involved, with Carlton, Collingwood, Richmond, WCE, GWS, Hawthorn,Sydney , and Essendon all vulnerable to be implicated. All these clubs(I presume) have gaming licences. If MFC earns $4m, per year from these licences, I wonder what the big clubs earn! The AFL would be fearful of a huge drop in revenue to the game if these licences were lost. That's why Anderson lost his job. That's why McLachlan repeatedly parrotted the "party line" that MFC was NOT guilty of deliberately losing games. I think the AFL will do its utmost to persuade gaming authorities to "turn a blind eye", which will have the side benefit of taking the heat off the Demons. (punctuation edited)

Talk about agendas, though. Hutchy clearly saying 5 or 6 sides tanked. The Carlton and Richmond stuff has been well known, even spoken about here, for some time. Yet all of it comes out after the findings are revealed? Why not 7 months ago when the investigation started? I think Anderson smelt an easy target and a career boost. IMO we proved him wrong, career-fatally wrong.

To be honest i hope they don't investigate other clubs for tanking. We should just accept we were unlucky and move on. Who wants/needs any more tanking palaver saturating the footy news. It's not going to help us if another clubs gets slugged I think most people know we were just one of several clubs who were not always trying to maximise the chances of winning in order to gain a benefit at a subsequent draft. Perhaps that's a positive, we're done and dusted on the issue - other clubs might be worried their turn might come. As another poster noted perhaps it even might help foster an us against the world vibe amongst the playing group. On other clubs - there was quite a few comments by CW and on DL suggesting our management practices meant we had some very disgruntled ex employees and that this was a factor. This may well be the case. However there often seemed to be an implication that this was a peculiarly Melbourne thing. Well i would suggest there may be more than one disgruntled ex Essendon employee and players for that matter (also some pretty angry current players). Also IIRC a whole raft of Carlton employees were given the bullet when MM rode into town and were none too happy about it. There was talk of legal action, in large part due to issues such as unfair dismissal and how it was carried out (ruthlessly and without much, if any, warning) Perhaps Carlton are better at ensuring angry ex employees don't go looking for revenge. For their sake i hope that's the case or else they might find someone leaking inside info to some muckraking journalist. St kilda seem to have their fair share of angry ex employees over the years - Grant Thomas, Stan Alves and Malcolm Blight immediately spring to mind. In fact when its all said and done all clubs probably have their share of disgruntled ex employees so perhaps poor man management is the industry standard.

And a NAB Cup final win would net us $200k+ as well as possibly get us an extra 1,000 to 2,000 members... you do the maths ;-)

An email i recieved yesterday..... So very true.... Dear Carlton Football Club, For the past 100 years we've had a rich history of salary cap breaching, rape hush money, underworld ties, tanking, poaching players, draft tampering, owning Arden Street, VISY, corporate corruption, & brown paper bags. We have the biggest trophy cabinet in the league and decades of constant success driven by a win-at-all-costs mentality while showing utter disregard for all AFL rules. As a passionate supporter I have fully embraced our culture and I am extremely proud of what it had allowed us achieve. So when I heard about this systematic doping scandal I expected that as a powerhouse club we would be at the absolute forefront of this science. That we would have set up our own underground drug labs and the worlds best sport scientists concocting all sorts of performance enhancing recipes in-house that no-one had ever heard of - anabolic leg injections to make Armfield kick straight, peptide pills that would cure Aaron Joseph's utter "shi tness" and some sort of animal DNA mutation therapy to remove McLean's turtle-like qualities. We'd probably even be conducting illegal human testing on Norf's second tier playing list as a part of our ownership of their club. But no, we are in the middle of the biggest cheating scandal in AFL history and Carlton is not even one little bit involved. Not a single mention, not even a hint of a mention. In fact the only drugs administered at the Carlton Football Club over the past few years are botox injections by Bryce Gibbs' beautician. There may be loser clubs like the saints & Bulldogs who would be happy to accept decades of mediocrity while playing within AFL rules - but not Carlton supporters. The fact that undetectable performance-enhancing drugs exists and we are not fully exploiting them to our advantage is an utter disgrace. It goes against the fabric and principles that this very club was built on. You have changed Carlton. You have lost the very identity that made you a huge success and the envy of 15 other clubs. Get back to your roots, cheat your hearts out and start ordering a few more shelves for our club's trophy cabinet.

Like WJ, I had only seen or heard of a tiny part of Libba's interview before. Staggering. Absolutely outrageous that that wasn't re-investigated when MFC was. Were those posters on this forum who claim to know-it-all and took the "we tanked, we must cop it alone" line, unaware of the full Libba stuff? Sorry to open old wounds that are now better healed, but I am ropeable. I am totally disgusted with the AFL. If the AFL doesn't quietly refund our $500k and compensate DB and CC likewise they will rot in hell (the other one, not the Demon's one) . My favorite moment in FC was when Richmond's tanking was raised and Kennet said something like 'Richmond?' and he pulled out his pen and muttered "Richmond" as he wrote something down. Best watched rather than described.

Not a truer word spoken. I still find it hard to believe, that when Brock said tanking is why he left the club, he then went to Carlton.. It's mind blowing..

Couldnt agree more mate!

Wouldn't matter to BP if they lost early round draft picks, he'd stuff it up anyway.

No. The question remains that with the evidence available to the AFL, why has Melbourne been the only club investigated. Outcomes aside, this is what frustrates me the most.

Rumour that cw has been sacked/walked from FC because of her spat with the lone wolf. Wonder what happened off air.

It would be ironic of Carltank were sanctioned because of this just after MM arrived. From memory the last premiership coach saviour for their club, Dennis Pagan, was cruelled by the salary cap cheating revelations not long after he arrived. Would stop MM in is tracks. Couldn't happen to two better blokes (MM and DP) and a better club. Cut em off at the knees.

Funny that this is all coming out now after the event. Why couldn't it have been emphasised by the media six months ago? Six weeks ago even? This whistleblower policy is going to unearth more Demons for the AFL. Let's see how selective they are in their investigations. The cynic in me says very.

Where's a hip pocket in a singlet when you need it? Or [censored] on a bull? Actually the latter is a pretty good description of Moloney last season.

This could and should be the exposure that lights the fire under a lazy media to run with it, like they did against us. The Chairman of the AFL Commission might be heavily conflicted on this one.

must say, the best footy classified i have watched intelligent, reasoned, balanced and no hysterics why did this discussion not occur during the 8 month inquisition? even cranky jeff spoke well and reasoned will the AFL put (keep) their head in the sand? bring on more shows like this....oh bummer that's right kero back next week

Knew Jeff was replacing someone, he did well. Just couldn't remember who it was that was missing. Must have been another nobody journalist who thinks they are much more important than they are.

After a few years of not being able to afford pay for a membership I signed up today. I could not help but think, can Neeld coach? Am I wasting my money? Then I thought performance is not the issue here, giving the club money to continue its off field performance is just as important. If Neeld is a failure, the money spent on the FD is just as important as one day will have a coach who can perform. Not saying Neeld cant coach, Monday to Friday he is a fantastic coach, just waiting for the weekend work to start working. Although I would like to see him on the training track more

I think it was BS. Caro would not have named names - it would have made her untrustworthy to all her contacts and her cred would have died on the spot. Furthermore, outing the idiot who was talking to her would be good for the club. Gary should have called her on it.

Doubt it will even cause a ripple. Everyone is tanked out. Need to get used to the idea that we are the only club that will get whacked.