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Binman - we shouldn't be bluffing anyway, the clubs would have got word of the clubs intentions. Do deals and make sure of it. And just to regurgitate how you can do this without receiving the Wrath of the AFL © you simply say, for example, to GWS: "If you want Pick 3 in the MD, you better keep it alive." And then to GC: "We would be willing to part with Pick 13 for Caddy, which may help you get Tippett, but we would be less willing if we didn't have Pick 3 alive." Done and done.

Hi mate number 1 is 99.9% - Rivers is going to Geelong. Player told me. 2. Cameron Schwab and I had a chat for about 15 minutes and I was very keen to find out about Viney. I asked about the HS article on GCS and Sheedy and he said Sheedy has known him since he was a little boy and both clubs are playing their cards well and MFC would do just the same as them as the AFL is a dog eat dog world. I then asked would we get him and he said the right things are in place to get Viney and they rate the kid right up the top of this draft. I said are we looking at Hogan in the U17 draft and he looked at me with a big smile. 6. Jack Watts told me about the training. 9. Jetta also told me a lot of fans don't know how big of a loss Jurrah is to our club and he is the most skillful guy he had ever seen play. He really looked up to him as a player. Jetta said he loves all the hard stuff in AFL football and that Viney is hard as nails and he is the best kid he has seen come to the MFC club in his time, Scully and Trengove included. He also thinks Jack Watts will be the next BJ Goddard. Jetta also said the MFC will play finals in 2013 after another pre season with Misson, thinks we will win some big games next year. Cheers rpfc

There's so much to reflect on from an evening such as "Bluey" Truscott Night. I must say that speaking to some of my fellow Demon supporters in the foyer before we were ushered into the Palladium room, I got the distinct impression that I was the last optimist left in the place. Of course, the negativism was largely justified because we've had a horrible year both on and off the field but I've come to realise that in the wake of what happened both during the year and in the previous seasons, it was something that had to happen and we're now free to move on to the future where the great preponderance of our playing group will be a generation apart from the Daniher years and the early Bailey period. In short, we're entering a new phase of our history and a few of the posts above including stories such as BIG JIM noting that Nev Jetta thinks we can make the finals in 2013 inspire me greatly. Even more so, it was in listening to the speeches of those who won awards and talking to some of the other blokes, that I was surprised at the extent to which the players agree that what Neeld has introduced will ultimately bring success and how they're "buying in" to his message in a big way. I'm hoping that success comes a lot more quickly than many of us think. There's also a view that our improvement will come quickly because the players will be substantially better prepared mentally and physically for 2013 and beyond than they were this year. I'm well aware from many years experience with athletics as to how modern scientific training methods can change individuals from one season to the next. I appreciate the view that the training staff were not inclined to build the team's fitness levels in one pre season (thereby avoiding a complete disaster as we saw at Essendon this year) and that things will get better 18 months after the first Neeld/Misson/Craig pre season. In that respect, I can see us coming out next year in round 1 with a team that can spread and run all day instead of that which finished its opening game against the Lions hopelessly overrun. I can see our younger brigade led by the skippers, Jack Watts, Tom McDonald, Sam Blease, Luke Tapscott and a fit and strong Max Gawn moving forward in leaps and bounds. I have a vision of draftees and trade/FA adding talent and depth and because I doubt the current regime will recruit those who are lazy and not willing to work, I think the "buy in" will reap some surprising rewards. All this brings me to our very worthy "Bluey" winner. Nathan Jones bought in before there was anything at the club to buy into and now he sets an example in terms of work ethic to which all of his team mates must aspire. Jack Viney's in too so expect something radically different from your team in 2013.

Sorry, but nobody is ever going to convince me that recruiting him with a high draft pick when he wouldn't undergo a medical and clearly didn't want to play here would have been a responsible recruiting decision.

I am interested in Miranda Kerr. Not sure if she is coming my way though.

No, I'm entirely the one to blame. As a greedy teenager, I grabbed all those premierships leaving none for later on and you guys. Once a Demon always a Demon. I shifted over to live in Perth in 1976 and a few of my old mates in Melbourne ask me if I've adopted the Eagles or Dockers. I laugh and answer, " Mate, I put the Weagles on the same level of hate as I have for Collingwood. My weekend is made when they lose. Go Dees!!!!!

I won't always enjoy it, but I will do it.

It's easy Nasher. They don't have reflections.

With two weeks to run until the start of the free agency period and in the absence of any concrete evidence of anyone going anywhere, the HS has reported that Melbourne utility/Casey list clogger/Demonland official mascot has been told that he will be shot out of a cannon. The decision was made by HS football writers, in consultation with the AFL's website, who feel that it will provide adequate space filler in the 'Department of Trades' next to the bombshells that Malthouse is looking for some new assistants (Rumour Rater: 'Maybe') and that Nathan Jones' hair is naturally receding (Rumour Rater: 'He's Gawn!'). And anyway, it will tie in nicely with the 'This is Greatness' theme. Tim Rogers has been lined up for the ad. Matthew Bate and Lyndon Dunn are reportedly disappointed that they didn't get the call. Already, Demonland has been lit up with calls to lock the thread, lest it get any responses, or provokes a poll.

Unlike a lot of people, I wasn't born a Melbourne supporter, I chose to become one when I was 12. I have never ever regreted that choice and as fed up as I get with the club sometimes, I have never contemplated ditching it. I can't think of anything that will make me stop following the club. I may be jaded, but I'm also blinded by faith that one day my choice will pay off. So I guess I'm stuck here forever.

With all the doom and gloom, I have never been more confident in our ability to get the most out of our players.

Saw my first Melb game in 1963......We had just come to Vic from Newcastle....and my Mum was a Dees supporter and would take the family to every game...including Geelong and Footscray during the year....We used to have hot dogs for lunch and then set off to the footy......My sisters and I would cut up crape paper on the Friday night and attach it to a stick and we would have our floggers for the game. We used to line up outside the MCG overnight to get finals tickets and I was privilaged to be at the last flag win.... I then started to play the game at junior level and had to miss Melb games but it never curbed my enthusiasm. I even got a letter from Jim Caldwell inviting me to train with the under 19's...which I did but after 3 weeks missed playing and training with my mates so went back and played suburban footy..... After playing and coaching until I was 38, I again started to go to Melb games.....We had some good years and made grand finals and we had some shite years such as now I have never douted that we would come good again....and I remain a very loyal and committed member of the Melb footy club....My kids (now in their late 20's) are fully paid up members(the tradition continues)

MFC to me is much more than a footy club. I went to the footy with my old man, I learned the game watching it with him. Now I continue the same rites with my boys. The club is now intertwined with relationships that are as valuable as anything I have. For that reason I am in the unconditional group.

No ,my support is conditional. Every year I lay out my conditions to the club in a written document for the season entitled: Biffs Conditions for season 20--. The club usually responds by written letter agreeing to every one of my demands . The playing group then ignore the club and do whatever they want so every two years I put in a "sack the coach" automatic condition as well as a "sack the skip" clause every third year. Every fourth year I have a "sack the board" clause in my conditions for my continued personal support . In this way I manage to destroy any continuity or longevity of plans for the club and keep it a laughing stock so my friends can give me a stupid condescending smile/ look every time we talk footy or the Demons .

What's wrong with Tapscott?

There is something hillbilly wierdo about me dragging my backside to the MCG to see Melbourne get done over again. Can't explain why. And yes the orgasm of a win. Wonderful stuff. Unconditional support ? Yes.

Unless they merge with the Nazi Party mine probably is. If the place falls into disarray again and the fans do nothing to stop it then we deserve what we get.

Cameron Schwab told me last night we will take Viney fullstop. pick 3 or 23 does not matter. All the players i had a chat with maybe 10 said he is the best and hardest kid they have ever seen. Stringer is also really not playing near as good since he hurt his leg so i dont were that is coming from. Dont think you need to worry about viney he will be a demon in 2013 FACT. Worry about pick 4 and 13.

I nearly had a 3-way once... All I needed was 2 more people.

I really do wonder how "journalists" like this break these "stories" with a straight face. Big build up, serious expression like they're delivering the news about 9/11. Christ almighty. I'd look at myself in the mirror every day and go, "how did I become this?"

Dec. 1964 was a very good month. Belzebub59 moved to Australia, Martin Luther King Ir won the Nobel Peace prize, Ian Chappell made his test cricket debut, and yours truly was born. I was born less than 3 months after our last premiership. Great timing. I was the only child at my primary school in 1970 that barracked for Melbourne. The rest seemed to be either Carlton, or Richmond, which may explain my hate to this day. And I did it tough, because we were terrible and I was one of those troublesome little blonde kids that would most definitely stick up for his club. I had Greg Parke's no. 26 on my back, but my two all time favourite players are Flower and Wells. I really enjoyed meeting Wells at our 150 celebrations at Crown Casino in 2008. In my opinion he should have been in the TOC ahead of Todd Viney. Playing in a premiership at Carlton may not have helped his cause. I also met Jimmy again, who'd sold me private health insurance at my home 20 years earlier. In one guise or another I've been posting on Demonland since Nov. 2002. I was 37 at the time with two boys under 3 and turn 50 the year after next. The years go quickly. My two favourite memories are being at Footscray with my Brother in round 22, 1987 and Todd Viney's goal in the opening seconds at the G a week later when I knew we were going to win our first final in 23 years. But my love for this club isn't unconditional. It never has been. I don't own a crystal ball, but if I knew that the club wouldn't win a flag in my lifetime I'd cease now. The only thing that matters to me and keeps me interested is the hope and chance of one day seeing a flag. Nothing else. I love Aussie Rules footy, so I enjoy games every week. I don't have to be watching the MFC to enjoy games of footy. I also won't forever be a punching bag for a poorly run club. I'm not saying they are, btw. But going back into millions of debt, etc. is no longer an option for me. If a club isn't financial they won't be able to compete on a level playing field, or win a flag. And constantly making poor decisions, or judgments is also no longer an option. Right now I won't share my tipping point and I won't necessarily have just the one, but I do have them. Many won't agree with me and I respect that. This is a very personal matter. And I wouldn't lambaste anyone that disagrees with me. And it's not about being weak, or not being able to be there for the long haul. As with many others, I think I've proved my resilience. But with anything in life I have a line in the sand. Enough about me, let's talk about you. Will you unconditionally drag your sorry arse through the gates of the G no matter how the club is run, or what they dish up, for whatever timeline it happens to be ? Or, like me, do you have a tipping point where enough is enough ? Will you be unconditional for decades, because that is how you're wired, or is there definitely a time frame where you'd jump off this toxic ride - should you consider it such ? With apologies to Rangey (is he on holiday ?) I've started a poll.

Jamar is shot IMO, I've said so since June. Why we signed Jamar for a 3 year deal is beyond me. The only plus is that he will be a good ruck coach. I didn't know we signed Jordie up for 3 years either, thats basically sums us up. I think Jordie would be a good country footballer though.

Wing drifting back and forth into both 50's.

Let us be realistic - IF MFC had a crystal ball, they would probably have broken it by now. Maybe there was a fake one in the recruiting department 2000-2010?

To quote a great man, "I'm Melbourne, and I'm Melbourne through and through." The Melbourne Football Club has given me, and many others, far more than I have given it. There's a sense from some that they support Australian Football (really the AFL) and that their loyalty is to the Melbourne Football Club, but that this loyalty is ultimately secondary to a love of highly played footy. I do not mean to disparage those that hold such a position or one close to it. However, in my own case, I would sooner lose interest than follow a top level league absent of the Demons. (The footy fix would be fulfilled by loyalties at the VAFA level). It's about the jumper and the shared feeling of success and failure that ties one to the club. We play at the greatest sporting ground in the world, and watch the oldest football club in existence. There is plenty to be proud about. Extended periods of mediocrity hurt. Even as an adult it is embarrassing the way in which friends or colleagues jibes at the MFC actually illicit barely withheld pain! However, it's easy to forget the good times, and there have been some (even for supporters born post 1960s) [it would be worse following the toiges!]. Highlights from the last 20ish years: 1994 team, 1998 team, 2000 team Jim, Gary, Todd, Stinga, Lovett's, Neita, Ox, Jackovich, Wiz (with the exception of no.8 season), Ingo, Grigic, Woey, Yze, Green, Bruce, White, Robbo, Junior, potentials in Jones, Grimes, Chippa, Howe ....[Pick the odd one out] - doubtless I've missed someone important. "still woewodin" 2000 Qualifying Final 2006 Carroll tackle on Gehrig The Wonna game Neitz vs. McCabe [just a few] I wouldn't trade the good times or the bad times to support any one of 17 other filthy, despicable, substandard clubs better conceptualised as 'football vermin'! Life might be happier, but it's in the veins ---- will always give full support to the club, I can't help it. Will not put up with those who repeatedly put Melbourne in a worse position - we will get good, and it will be sweet.. [media=]

I agree with this, no doubt Melbourne winning would help but I can happily not watch a game if it is on. Too many teams, the quality of talent has been diluted and the football media annoy me to no end.

Uuhhgggh seriously fcuk Caddy. We dont need more B grade mids. Id rather take Viney at 3,Kennedy at 13 and a decent 2 nd rounder then take Caddy at 13 so Viney slips.

Yeah but if I had a crystal ball I wouldn't use it. Why would you want to know when our next premiership is? It would ruin every season until the premiership year arrived, and even when the year arrived you would know it was coming and wouldn't be nearly as excited about it. It's like the lead up to Christmas as a kid.

Great thread, Ben Hur. Sometime in 1963 I was given Ron Barassi boots and a Melbourne jumper by my parents. My father, being English was a soccer supporter so the telly wasn't usually on footy replay, but for some bizarre reason I can still remember footage of Ron Barassi allegedly knocking out Roger Dean on the eve of the '63 finals resulting in a four match suspension. 12 months on, I have a memory of a Melbourne belting Collingwood in the '64 second semi. a year in the uk in 1965, wearing my Melbourne jumper (pictured) and return to australia, and Melbourne v St. Kilda round one, 1966. How did the demons go last year? I asked someone. they came 7th. wow, that was a surprise. but i thought we would soon be back in town and would do well against the saints. unfortunately we have had over forty years of beltings like that round one game but i am still a paid up member and drive in for several games a year. second half of this year though i couldn't handle the familiarity of walking out of the G as losers, the drive back to the bush - as losers - and all the radio and press coverage of how pathetic we have become. just finished the Jimmy book last night which has given me confidence that he hasbequeathed to the club a solid administration and an intangible 'we are Melbourne at this stage' spirit which may yet reap rewards.

Sticks is responsible for one of the greatest renditions of Stand By Your Man, a bit ironic I know, but surely it that's got to count for something.

true, but a retrospectoscope is compulsory especially if you also wish to indulge in 'Land

thats a quality source...

god I love the sh!t proffered by armchair experts here,Some profess the expertise in their execution of selection of such amazing finesse that the Belgies would be lining up to have them cut diamonds !! The truth is its not about cutting selections tot he 1000th of a millimetre like some here seem to think but its about matching needs with opportunities.. Common sense says you go with what you know. Not what you summise. That may enter calculatons after but if you know a diamond to be a diamond why bother reinventing the fact. You dont. you move on to the next requirement and what you know Its been mentioned here at times and probably not understood for what it really means : Viney is a known entity. . What does it matter that some only think him a pick 5 or 6 . if we have to take him at 3 and he plays round 1 and carves it up how have we lost ?? We have after all picks taken far earlier that havent returned that much ( By comparison....and yes I do rate Watts ...but ) Its like arguing over Gale, Kerr , McPherson, Hinze etc. ALL amazing. but each to their own. So it is with Footy clubs..you take what suits. How can anyone argue that Jack Viney doesnt suit the MFC like a tailored suit ?? c'mon !!

I can understand it - our fans are greedy. We have been poor for so long that we feel we MUST take as many supposed guns in the draft as possible and that we must not take someone who may not be the clear cut third or fourth best player in the draft, even though he bleeds red and blue, is the best in and under player in the draft and will be a walk up start in Round 1. He will be another player who will help to change our culture and he has leadership written all over him. Why do we overlook him? Because we are greedy and we feel we must take a Grundy or a Toumpas because others say we should. It's ridiculous. Look at how we've gone up this end of the draft in recent years. It's not flash. We all know that. Yet we are still sucked in to this thinking that we have to overlook Viney for someone else because Viney may not be rated at 3, but instead be rated at 6-8. Morton was taken at 4. Dangerfield 10, then Rioli 11. That's only one example but proof that a Top 4 selection will not always become what we want them to be. We have as close to a sure thing as we will ever get in Viney. Melbourne will know this and take him at 3 IF we are forced to do it, and we as fans should be jumping for joy that we have landed exactly the player we need.

I am not trying to show off or put you down LF but I was there in 60, and 64. Seemed like it would go on forever we were the Hawthorn / Geelong of that era. Here I am 48 years later waiting for the next episode. Just because I have seen two does not alter the pain of the last 6 years. Just means I have gone from a youth to an old [censored] in what seems like a short while. However I have been occupied avoiding the Vietnam war, getting married, becoming a father and Grandfather. So a few other good things have happened along the way. I think without Demonland I would have quit at some stage over the last six years. So hang in there LF Surely we must get better later this decade.

Right..... So you're the reason........!!!!

I think we all need to understand how the voting works 4 coaches rate every player that played from 1-7, so every game a player playes he earns a min of 4 voted and max of 28 votes, so James Sellar played 16 games which he averaged 12 votes per game or 3 from each coach, that means he was below average. Col Sylvia played 17 games averaged 3.4/game per coach so just on Average, and the B&F winner Jones averaged 4.38/game/coach. Interesting way to do this, but when you break it down you it is a true indication on our season when your B&F was rated a 4.38 out of 7. Next year hopefully we can have players pushing towards 5 out of 7.

Col just signed a 3 year deal with the club, he isn't going anywhere, fact.

It just says other clubs are interested, not that we have any intention to trade him.

Maybe you should read the criteria of becoming a HOF Legend I am related to a teammate of lou richards and i can assure you that he was even lucky to make HOF status His media contribution is outstanding and probably without peer but Lou himself would not accept it as even he has become dellusional on how good a player he was Bob Rose IMO would be the next Magpie Legend as he was a Champion player unlike Richards who was good but never considered outstanding The irony from collingwood and brainwashed opposotion supporters like yourself do realise the Collingwood TOC does not include the name Lou Richards Then you can take it a little further in that Collingwood has no TOC representative although i do believe they were hard done by

No mate, Viney hasn't been playing TAC cup so how can you say that. His couple of games at Casey have been good and I don't know how (or even if he has been playing) he has been performing at Carey, do you? I know everyone passed on Darling, part of it was because of off field stuff but a big part was has final 18 year was not up to what he previously delivered, was the man child being brought back to size. Well, we know the answer to that now and would like that pick again, as would every other club bar WC. Selwood slipped to pick 7 because of an injury plagued final 18's year but would you take Gibbs who all the recruiters marked as the number one pick or Selwood now? Viney has been on the radar since he was 8 years old, if the club pick him at 3 which I expect will happen then they should have a good handle on what he is worth. To me he seems to be a cross between Mitchell and Selwood, not bad I reckon.

Glad Harrington is on the same page as most of us and we won't be picking Jack with 3. Toumpas, Grundy, Whitfield are 3 players who have had a far better year than Viney. Wines arguably has and Garlett will come into calculations. Harrington states that he owes it to the fans, which if that's the case, Jack Viney is around 6-8 where most recruiters would have him - and we won't take him at 3.

If rivers goes, as it seems could be case, I'd be surprised if he gets more money or a longer contract than what we would offer him. IMO he'd be leaving to chalk up a few wins before he retires, because god knows we still have some pain to go through until we are consistently there or there abouts with the top sides

So Collingwood get Martin for the loss of Wellingham? I would expect their asking price for Sharrod would be greater than that.

But thats the problem....they look AND play like schoolboys. The way they play will take some time to sort out and Im hopeful we're in a process. But we CAN actually control not looking like total gits right now. I genuinely love the new logo but I really hate the blazer. Can we scrap it PLEASE. Love a poll on this...someone at the club has to hear what we think about it.

3 big factors working in our favor are 1. Caddy leaving, this will show GC what can happen if a player is unhappy at GC and living interstate. 2. Giles wanting out of GWS - This will put question to GC that GWS may possibly draft Grundy at #1 therefore they may not to risk #2 in fear of missing out on Whitfield. 3. GC risk losing on Tippett by bidding. GC bid on Viney, we pass and offer pick #4 to Crows for Tippet. Draft Whitfield/Toumpas at #3 (We should really get in the media about a potential early pick trade for Tippet to scare GC)

If you happen to be 15 and attending Brighton Grammar H_T

We'll take Viney at 3 if we have to, but I'm bullish that a win-win deal can be structured where we won't have to. The discussion about whether Viney is worth pick 3 is humorous. Deep inside JV reckons he's pick 1, hell he reckons he'll be the best player in the AFL. I laugh when I read the suggestion that we'll pass on him at 3, let him go to GWS and we'll get him back after 2 years. You know what - he'll say stuff you - and I will too.

Tim Watson said on sen the blazers make them look like schoolboys....I tend to agree

Too many mates who are supporters, and Bombers supporters are the most ignorant and arrogant there is. 2000 Grand Final didn't help either...