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The Melbourne Football Club is doing it tough in 2012 and it was only a fortnight ago that a win against Essendon at the MCG averted the possibility of a ten game losing streak to start the season. Whispering Jack has been doing some research and discovered a year when things were much worse so Demonlanders can relax and ponder about a time when ... IT WAS ONLY ... 1919 The VFL competition was less than two decades old when it was partially interrupted by the First World War. The competition, which had expanded to ten teams in 1908 with the introduction of Richmond and University, was reduced to only four in 1916 when the war was at its height but grew back to eight by 1918. Still missing were Melbourne and University. With the end of hostilities in November, 1918 things started to slowly return to normality. Melbourne was re-admitted but the students, whose pre war record in the VFL had been poor, never returned to the senior competition. Feelers were put out for new clubs and applicants included the Ballarat League, Brunswick, Footscray, Hawthorn, North Melbourne, Prahran and Port Melbourne. For the time being, none of the applicants were accepted. A "second XVIII" competition was introduced with the clubs represented by district teams. Melbourne's last appearance in the competition had realised a long-awaited finals appearance in 1915 (it’s first since 1902) but the club had lost players, casualties of war and retirement, while others had lost their prowess after the long break. The club introduced many new players but 1919 was to prove fruitless and Melbourne went through the season finishing last without a win. The shining light was the debut of Ivor Warne Smith who would go on to win two Brownlow Medals and play in the club's second premiership team in 1926. The club appointed George Haines, a champion rover from Geelong, as its playing coach. He made his debut in round 1 against St. Kilda at the Junction Oval, along with seven others who were playing their first VFL games. Haines, who had changed his name from Heinz because of the anti-German feeling of the day, captain-coached the side in 1919 and remained as a player in the following season. Among those from the club who joined the ranks of the fallen during wartime were respected defender Arthur Mueller "Joe" Pearce who was killed during the landing at Gallipoli. Others who lost their lives were Clifford Burge, Jack Doubleday, Desmond McDonald, Fenley McDonald, Ralph Robertson, Percy Rodriguez and Alfred Williamson. The club was left with an inexperienced line up that was hardly a match for the opposition clubs and, despite some gallant efforts, the Redlegs had to wait until the following season to record the first post war victory after returning to the fold in May of 1919. Round 1, 1919 - St. Kilda v Melbourne Saturday, 3 May, 1919 at Junction Oval, St. Kilda. St. Kilda 3.5.23 7.8.50 9.12.66 12.14.86 Melbourne 2.0.12 3.1.19 4.2.26 9.4.58 Goal kickers George Haines 3, Jack Huntington 2, Gordon Coulter 1, Teddy Johnston 1, Herb Matthews 1, Eric Tonkin 1 St. Kilda took the lead early and by half time led by 31 points. The Saints stretched the lead to 40 points at the last break but Melbourne reduced the deficit by two goals in a final term in which it more than doubled its score. Making their debuts along with Haines who suffered a shoulder injury were Gordon Coulter, Jack House, Con Kenney, Bob Love, Percy Love, John McMahon and Eric Tonkin. Bill McKenzie completed a long wait to play his 100th game and ruckman Bill Allan was Melbourne's best. Round 2, 1919 - Melbourne v South Melbourne Saturday, 10 May, 1919 at MCG Melbourne 0.2.2 2.5.17 3.7.25 3.10.28 South Melbourne 3.7.25 5.10.40 7.13.55 10.19.79 Goal kickers George Haines 1, Percy Love 1, Eric Tonkin 1 Melbourne's return to the MCG was greeted by a crowd of 6,237 in its game against reigning premier South Melbourne who the Fuschias had nudged out of a finals place four years earlier. They had to wait until the second quarter before they would kick their first goal of the new era at their home ground and were soundly thrashed. Still hampered by his shoulder injury, Haines barely made a contribution after the first term. His team's disposal skills were poor, it overused its handball and scored only one goal after half time in a 51 point loss. Allan, McKenzie and Percy Love were the best in a game in which the club introduced another debutant in Cyril Hall. Round 3, 1919 - Melbourne v Richmond Saturday, 17 May, 1919 at MCG Melbourne 2.1.13 4.4.28 4.6.30 7.7.49 Richmond 3.4.22 4.9.33 9.10.64 11.14.80 Goal kickers Eric Tonkin 2, Jack Connole 1, George Haines 1, Jack Huntington 1, Con Kenney 1, Percy Love 1 There were signs of improvement as Melbourne trailed by a mere five points at half time. At that stage, most players were holding their own around the ground but the usually reliable Allan was well beaten in the ruck. The third quarter was a disaster with Richmond piling on 5.1 to 0.2 which was virtually the difference between the teams on the day. McKenzie, Hall and midfielder House were the team's best. Haines returned to form in his roving role and there was some respite ahead for the team with a bye scheduled for the coming weekend. Round 4, 1919 - bye Round 5, 1919 - Carlton v Melbourne Saturday, 31 May at Princes Park, Parkville Carlton 2.2.14 9.4.58 14.8.92 18.15.123 Melbourne 1.3.9 2.4.16 3.4.22 5.4.34 Goal kickers Eric Tonkin 2, Jack Huntington 1, Bob Love 1, Bill McKenzie 1 The week's break proved to be of little value to the team which was thrashed by Carlton after a competitive first quarter. The Blues were relentless for the remainder of the game and it was only due to their forwards failing to hit the target in the final term that the Redlegs managed to avoid a defeat in excess of 100 points. Tonkin was Melbourne's best, and both Haines and McLean won praise in a disappointing performance. Elsewhere that day, Geelong finished goalless, kicking 18 points against St. Kilda. Round 6, 1919 - Collingwood v Melbourne Saturday, 7 June, 1919 at Victoria Park, Abbotsford Collingwood 3.5.23 8.12.60 11.14.80 16.20.116 Melbourne 2.0.12 3.1.19 7.6.48 8.7.55 Goal kickers Eric Tonkin 2, Bill Allen 1, Jack Connole 1, George Haines 1, Jack House 1, Percy Love 1, Alex Salvado 1 The comeback kids were quickly becoming the whipping boys of the competition although one might have thought otherwise when the players received notice in the rooms at Victoria Park for their game against Collingwood that said "The secretary respectfully requests the players to kick as many goals as possible, but those kicking more than six goals will be ordered off the field for selfishness". Needless to say there was no "selfishness" and the team went down by ten goals. There were however, some signs of improvement but there was little teamwork and Collingwood was simply a much stronger outfit. George Walker was Melbourne's best and Gray was applauded for his kick-ins which often cleared his side out of danger. McKenzie and House were also among the best. Round 7, 1919 - Melbourne v Fitzroy Saturday, 14 June, 1919 at MCG Melbourne 3.2.20 3.5.23 4.6.30 6.6.42 Fitzroy 5.2.32 6.8.44 9.11.65 11.12.78 Goal kickers George Haines 3, Bill Allen 1, Stan Huntington 1, Con Kenney 1 The desperate Redlegs introduced three new players for the game against Fitzroy (one of who just lasted the one game) but it made little difference as the onslaught continued in front of 4,085 fans at the MCG. The Melbourne forward line struggled to score goals while the Maroons' focal point, Bob Merrick kicked eight of their 11 goals. The indefatigable Bill Allen was back to his best in the ruck in his 100th game. Other good players were Baquie, Matthews, Haines, Walker and Lilley. Round 8, 1919 - Melbourne v Geelong Saturday, 21 June at MCG Melbourne 3.2.20 3.3.21 7.6.48 7.10.52 Geelong 1.1.7 6.7.43 8.10.58 10.12.72 Goal kickers Eric Tonkin 2, Bill Allen 1, Stan Huntington 1, Percy Love 1, Herb Matthews 1, Bill McKenzie 1 A truly paltry crowd (even by the standards of the day) of 1,327 came to the MCG to watch the competition's cellar dwellers as eight fought for the right to claim their first premiership points of the season. The Redlegs started the campaign well with the aid of the breeze but were swamped in the second term and eventually lost a lacklustre game by 20 points. Eric Tonkin arrived early in the afternoon after catching a train overnight from Sydney and he had a good game kicking two goals. Debutant Leo Little who had previously played VFL football for the now disbanded University team in 1915 was promising. Round 9, 1919 - Essendon v Melbourne Saturday, 28 June at East Melbourne Essendon 4.3.27 7.10.52 11.14.80 16.17.113 Melbourne 2.2.14 3.3.21 5.6.36 6.8.44 Goal kickers George Haines 1, Jack Huntington 1, Gordon Landy 1, Herb Matthews 1, Alex Salvado 1, Eric Tonkin 1 Essendon's home ground was at nearby East Melbourne and Melbourne, with three more newcomers in the team suffered their biggest defeat at the venue. Ex-Carlton recruit Bill Hore was among the best along with Gray and Haines but the hapless Redlegs were never in the hunt after the first quarter. Round 10, 1919 – Melbourne v St. Kilda Saturday 12 July, 1919 at MCG Melbourne 3.2.20 5.3.33 5.4.34 5.7.37 St. Kilda 2.2.14 3.6.24 5.11.41 6.11.47 Goal kickers Eric Tonkin 2, Jack Baquie 1, George Haines 1, Ivor Warne-Smith 1 The round 10 fixture against St. Kilda was played before a small crowd of 3,483 but was significant on two counts. The home side came closer than ever before of winning it's first game since 1915 and, more significantly, the game marked the debut of Ivor Warne-Smith, arguably one of the greatest Demons ever to grace the football fields. The twenty-one year old Warne-Smith joined Melbourne for eight games and two goals in 1919 but moved to Tasmania in the following year. The true all round sportsman returned to the club in 1925 and had a stellar season in 1926 playing in a premiership and winning the Brownlow Medal, a feat he repeated in 1928. He retired at the end of 1932 by which time he had captain coached the team. Warne-Smith played 146 games for 110 goals. Later in life, he was Chairman of Selectors, helping Norm Smith to create the revived Demons as they began their golden era of the 1950s and 60s. Warne-Smith's debut game was played in blinding rain with strong winds that made play difficult. The conditions helped the home side which found itself in unfamiliar territory when it led by 9 points at half time. However, the Saints dominated the third term to take a seven point lead into the last, and while Melbourne had its opportunities to snatch victory kicking with the wind in the final quarter, it couldn't add to it's half time tally of goals while the visitors goalled at one of their few forward forays to win by 10 points. According to a report in the Football Record, it was so cold that the St Kilda players could not untie their bootlaces or take off their uniforms unaided after the match. For Melbourne, Gray and Armstrong were best while Haines and debutant Warne-Smith impressed. Round 11, 1919 - South Melbourne v Melbourne Saturday, 19 July, 1919 at Lake Oval, Albert Park South Melbourne 2.3.15 6.7.43 9.10.64 13.16.94 Melbourne 0.1.1 1.7.13 1.9.15 2.15.27 Goal kickers Herb Matthews 1, Lou Salvana 1 Harry Brereton was a Melbourne champion who kicked 187 goals in his 85 games between 1909 and 1915 and was the VFL's top goal kicket in 1912 but in his first game since the start of World War 1, he lined up against his former teammates and destroyed them with a six goal haul for South Melbourne. The Swans were dominant all day, leading by five goals at the main break and stretching that out to a 67 point win. Little, McKenzie, Walker and Matthews were best for the Fuschias who had now lost all 10 matches of what was turning into a horror season. Round 12, 1919 - Richmond v Melbourne Saturday, 26 July, 1919 at Punt Road, Richmond Richmond 2.6.18 2.10.22 5.15.45 9.18.72 Melbourne 2.0.12 5.3.33 6.3.39 7.6.48 Goal kickers Alec Farrow 2, Archie Grigg 1, George Haines 1, Charlie Lilley 1, Bill Shelton 1, Ivor Warne-Smith 1 The club was desperate to turn things around and added four more first gamers into the mix for their round 12 clash against the neighbouring Tigers. The move seemed to be an inspired one when the team led by eleven points at half time but Richmond turned things around with 3.3.21 to 0.4.4 for the third term and ran away with the game in the last to record a comfortable victory. The following week's bye could not come quickly enough. Melbourne's best were McKenzie, Shelton, Walker and Matthews. Round 13, 1919 - bye Round 14, 1919 - Melbourne v Carlton Saturday, 16 August, 1919 at MCG Melbourne 0.3.3 0.3.3 3.6.24 5.6.36 Carlton 2.2.14 9.6.60 12.10.82 13.18.96 Goal kickers Lou Salvana 2, Gordon Coulter 1, Con Kenney 1, Herb Matthews 1 Only 3,825 fans were in attendance at the MCG to witness another drubbing, this time at the hands of the Blues who kept the Fuschias goalless for the first half to lead by 57 points at the main interval. With the game decided, the second half was an even tussle with Melbourne going down by 10 goals. Jack Baquie was his team's best along with McKenzie, Boddington and Shelton while McWhinney, Matthews and Warne-Smith also won praise. Round 15, 1919 - Melbourne v Collingwood Saturday, 23 August, 1919 at MCG Melbourne 2.0.12 2.1.13 3.3.21 5.6.36 Collingwood 4.4.28 9.12.66 12.24.96 20.25.145 Goal kickers Con Kenney 2, Percy Love 1, Herb Matthews 1, Eric Tonkin 1 The Magpies were in form and heading towards a top of the ladder finish while the Redlegs were winless. The resulting thrashing was inevitable although few would have predicted how badly things would go for Melbourne. In front of a crowd of 3,885, the team crashed to a 109 point defeat which flattered the team because of Collingwood's inaccuracy in front of goal. Nevertheless, the Magpies' score of 20.25.145 was their highest score ever. Unfortunately for Melbourne, the team had yet to reach rock bottom. Round 16, 1919 - Fitzroy v Melbourne Saturday, 30 August at Brunswick Street, Fitzroy Fitzroy 6.5.41 14.7.91 19.12.126 21.16.142 Melbourne 1.2.8 1.2.8 2.3.15 2.5.17 Goal kickers Eric Chisholm 1, George Haines 1 Melbourne suffered it's biggest loss ever at Brunswick Street in a non-competitive display that yielded it a mere two goals for the day. The Maroons, with Bob Merrick kicking 12 goals (at that stage, the second biggest goal haul in VFL history) finished 125 point winners while the hapless Fuschias booted their lowest score since they kicked 0.8 against South Melbourne in 1912. Round 17, 1919 - Geelong vs Melbourne Saturday, 6 September, 1919 at Corio Oval, Geelong Geelong 5.3.33 5.4.34 9.12.66 14.12.96 Melbourne 0.3.3 1.10.16 2.10.22 6.15.51 Goal kickers Harry Selover 2, Bill Allen 1, George Haines 1, Stan Huntington 1, Leo Little 1 George Haines celebrated his 100th game with an improved performance after a poor opening quarter at Corio Oval against the Pivotonians. Indeed, the half time deficit of three goals could have been much closer had the visitors kicked better than 1.7 to 0.1 in the second term. Geelong proved too strong in the second half to run out 45 point winners. Tonkin, Haines, Allen and Selover were Melbourne's best. Round 18, 1919 - Melbourne vs Essendon Saturday, 13 September, 1919 at MCG Melbourne 1.4.10 1.4.10 2.5.17 4.9.33 Essendon 0.3.3 5.5.35 8.5.53 10.7.67 Goal kickers Eric Chisholm 1, George Haines 1, Jack Huntington 1, Percy Love 1 Melbourne's hopes of ending the season with victory was boosted when it held Essendon goalless in the opening term of their final game. However, the Redlegs failed to score in the second quarter and were four goals in arrears by half time on the way to a 34 point defeat. After a long an arduous season, it was clear that some of the players were already in end of season mode even before the game had started. Legend had it that three of them went for a "long lunch" before the match. One broke a window in a cab on the way to the ground and the three were locked inside until suitable compensation was offered. They did manage to make it in time for the game and be named amongst the best three players! At season's end, this was the ladder:- Team W D L % Pts Collingwood 13 0 3 162.3 52 South Melbourne 12 0 4 158.7 48 Carlton 10 0 6 127.6 40 Richmond 10 0 6 118.2 40 ------------------------------------------------- Fitzroy 9 1 6 125.3 38 Essendon 7 0 9 94.6 28 St. Kilda 7 0 9 70.6 28 Geelong 3 1 12 73.4 14 Melbourne 0 0 16 43.0 0 Collingwood went on to win the premiership after beating Richmond in the grand final. Playing List - 1919 Number Player Games Goals 1 Bill Allen 9 4 2 Eric Tonkin 14 14 3 Percy Love 11 6 4 Bill McKenzie 13 2 5 Bob Love 8 1 6 Herb Matthews 14 6 7 Bill Hore 2 0 7 Reg Gibb 3 0 8 Charlie Lilley 14 1 9 John McMahon 3 0 10 Gordon Coulter 8 2 11 Jack Baquie 14 1 13 Lindsay Nichols 1 0 14 Alec Gray 13 0 15 George Haines 14 15 16 George Walker 10 0 17 Con Kenney 9 5 18 Bob Bodington 4 0 18 Stan Huntington 3 3 19 Eric Chisholm 5 2 19 Allan McLean 5 0 19 Jack Huntington 12 6 20 Art McWhinney 9 0 20 Teddy Johnston 1 1 21 Jack House 15 1 22 Bill Brunier 4 0 23 Alex Salvado 5 2 24 Lou Salvana 6 3 25 Alec Farrow 4 2 25 Howard Richardson 1 0 26 Cyril Hall 9 0 27 Jack Connole 5 2 28 Matt Connors 3 0 28 Jack Evans 1 0 29 Charlie Armstrong 3 0 29 Frank Cummins 1 0 30 Bill Shelton 8 1 31 Leo Little 6 1 32 Archie Grigg 3 1 33 Ivor Warne-Smith 8 2 34 Harry Selover 3 2 35 Dave Elliman 3 0 Unknown Gordon Landy 1 1 Melbourne won its opening round game of 1920 against South Melbourne ending a drought of almost five years going back to round 15 of 1915. Five years later with Warne-Smith back in the fold and a team full of many more new names, the Redlegs were back in the finals. A year later, they won their second premiership against Collingwood. FOOTNOTE: In the 45 seasons that followed 1919, the Melbourne Football Club won 11 premierships, a rate of almost one every four years.

Gaff was pick 4 in 2010. He will be a great player. Losing a number one draft pick is horrendous - particularly so early into that player's career. However, there's a massive silver lining to this - and its name is Mitch Clark. He's arguably our most important player, and it seems we only had the dough needed to get the Clark deal done as a result of Scully giving us the bird. So, I'm cool with that. I'm happy we got Clark. Scully's happy to be at GWS. And I'm happy the boring little nerd is there too.

GUN! God I've missed having a big forward, got myself a new favourite player!! Doing Jim proud!!!!

Well this wouldnt be Demonland I reckon if it wasnt June, mid way through another lamentable and forgetable season and our attention turns to all those 'better' players out there in some often greener field ( or so we imagine ) One of the highlghts and very pleasant surprises has been the on filed exploits of James Magner. Whilst the world focuses on all the kiddy winkies and all their 'potential' here was a bloke almost destined for obscurity having been overlooked some years back but had the temerity ( ne...ambition ) to work hard , develop his game and play good footy. aka a good to go ready made , just neeeding AFL experience and refinement. Hes not the only one. There will be dozens of others with similar stories, somewhere. I have no porblem with the club spending time and effort in order to secure great results with our first round picks ( and beyond ) come draft time but id really like to think they willalso have a good look around for others who just might be able to slot in, whether they be rookied or late picks. Whos out there...??

Sheedy jumped the shark years ago - you have to begrudgingly respect his ability to stir the pot. Him getting knocked back for head coaching position clearly still burns which is more amusing than his half assed jibes, you'd think a 4 time premiership coach wouldn't be so emotionally insecure. He's just another GW$ellout - he used to be all about sticking up for the fans of the game, he even dubbed AD 'Vlad'. Funny how when nobody else would take him in, he bent over & became the Fat Controller's [censored]. As for the other fellow $6m over 6 years for some kid with a bung knee, who can't even play inside, forced to play as a tagger, isn't even good enough to be captain & has DE that is sub 50% - shrewd recruiting there, cobber! :thumbsup:

Haha very well played Sheedy - just as a side note I will be there and won't boo $cully - I think he did us a favor by leaving

You totally missed my point. I never said Watts has no deficiencies he has to work on, of course it does, but nobody ever talks about NicNat's deficiencies. Nobody ever discusses just how poor his skills are, or how he lacks a footy brain. We just gush and pee our pants in excitement because he knocks a ball into space, but we don't afford the same platitudes to Watts when deserved. I really don't understand where this stupid disparity has come from. One is unnecessarily praised, the other unnecessarily bagged. I still maintain that Watts at West Coast would be talked up, but NicNat would barely get a touch in Melbourne and would be labelled a 'drafting mistake'.

More 17 year olds? Why don't we just start try-outs at Timezone? Highest score on Whack-a-mole gets a dees guernsey.

Would be a rough old week if we lost to the Giants.

Of course we should find out his long term future. After what GW$ did to the MFC all is fair game. The MFC must be relentless in the pursuit of its own gains. It is what other clubs do. To say "we do not have the balls" is an attitude we need to shed. If anything the MFC "balls" need to grow...

His talents are unquestionable and his game last night was awesome. But in 64 games playing as an on-baller this was only the THIRD TIME IN HIS CAREER he's hit 20 touches. And his kicking is iffy. He could become anything but the hype exceeds his output to date IMO.

A little radical of an idea, but would we consider this? If ladder stays the same, then Melb will have picks 3 and 4. If we can jag a spot higher, then 4 and 5 but i think we will be 16th sadly.. Is it worth giving these up for Pick 1 (likely the outside run and class of Whitfield we desperately need) and the ability to steal a Top 10 pick in Viney in the 2nd round? Maybe getting GWS or GC to exchange our third round pick (43?) for their second round (23?) could sweeten the deal... The trade would look like this: Before Trade Pick 3 (Viney) Pick 4 Pick 12 Pick 25 approx Pick 43 approx After Trade Pick 1 (Whitfield) Pick 12 Pick 23 approx (Viney) Pick 25 approx Either option gives us 3 Top 12 quality players, but the trade allows access to the BEST midfielder rather than the option of Pick 4. Not knowing who the other candidates are, but the difference between Pick 1 and Pick 4 can be the difference between ending up with Cotchin (a pick 2) or Morton (a pick 4!!!!) Would give the trade some thought, 50/50 on this myself. Thoughts?

Geez, bit harsh....................on Delta !

Yep, Franklin at pick ? Selwood? Pendlebury? Swan? Sidebottom? number one aint it, look at the blue boys, look at us, it doesn't work. Build a team the more picks the better, don't limit us. Viney will be our first pick simple as that and he will be a good player ready to go, let's find another couple with our compo picks and see if we can jag another Howe or McDonald down the order and we are well on our way to building a team. Gary Ablett is the best player in the comp and it's not helping GC win a game.

Lets not lose sight of the draft being a lottery at times, yes you need recruiters to do their homework but there are always Fyfe's, Selwoods, Zharakis', Bartels who for one reason or another fall into your lap beause they are not rated as high as others. Or you can finish low down in a year when there are freaks in the draft, 2003 we finish down low in a draft that very few have really turned the footy world upside down. Another year and those picks 3 & 5 could have been Roughead & Buddy or Thomas & Pendlebury Chris JUDD fell into Meth Coasts lap in 2001 at Pick 3 and was the final piece in the puzzle with Kerr, Cousins & Gardiner who went down and was replaced by Cox. For these reasons I am dead against the suggestion from another thread in giving up pick 3 & 4 to get pick 1, I think 2 tips in the Top 5 will give you long term depth and a better chance of improving your list overall

Love your passion RPFC but the AFL have their hands planted firmly in GC and GWS's arses and will not allow any deal like that to occur because of the backlash that will occur from the other 15 clubs not involved. Sorry but there will be no shady deal to stop early FS nominations and there will be no trading picks 3 and 4 for pick 1. It is what it is.

Sorry mate this will never happen and tod would vomit if his boy was playing for anything but the red and blue.I also would vomit. Give me viney before any of the kid's coming through anyday.

It weird not having Demonology.... I kind of feel like I'm rooting the neighbours wife posting on here.... Ah well..... change is as good as a holiday.... err the forum I mean.... not the single mother, next door, all alone, her kid staying wither her dad this weekend

You are spot on here Jaded. Beautifully worded.

I wouldn't trust GWS as far as I could throw sheedy's ego!

Perhaps Ben Hur could stop posting on Demonland and write his own blog instead. Given his unbelievable level of football knowledge and acumen it would become an internet sensation and be a must read by any serious footy person. Clubs could scale back their investment in recruiters and opposition analysts and just read his blog - think of the money they would save. Just look at his thoughts on Cameron - the best player in the league in 5 years and Watts just a good average player. Genius wasted on his fellow Demonlanders. He deserves a much bigger audience!

No I guess not but hopefully one day we can share in the glory of an MFC premiership!

I think for his first three or four games as a backman, Jack has been much more impressive than a standard 'distributor'. He has been getting better every week in this role and if he continues to improve like this we might end up with the best player of this type in the league. I'd take that over the CHF considering we now have Clark and some options for the future like Cook and possibly Garland.

Viney is going to be a valuable selection anywhere after the first two really. The kid is rated very highly and will be worth whatever pick we end up having to use to draft him. If we don't pick him I'll be very disappointed, cos everything I've been told about him makes him sound worth it.

lol Ben Ben Ben ... I thought you were a bit quicker on a the draw than that. Heard of the expression 'tongue in cheek' ? C'mon my-man ... you're supposed to be A-list 'round here!

A package of Morton, Bennell, Bate and Dunn plus a late second round pick should get the deal done.

+ 1 rate him as well has a great tank already and would benefit from full time training

I'm inclined to think we would be better off being realistic and chasing the type of players we need the most. We have a few young, tall key position prospects in development at the club and while the likes of Tom McDonald, Lucas Cook, Troy Davis and Jai Sheahan might not compare with Cameron and Patton, you never know what could happen given the right development path. These players are additional to those we already have who can fill key defence and key forward positions. On the other hand, we're dreadful in the midfield, particularly in terms of skilful midfielders who can run, spread and carry. This is the area where I would like to see us concentrate our recruiting resources in the immediate future both in terms of trading and drafting, If we can rebuild our midfield and make it more potent, there will be less pressure on our defence and more good delivery to our forwards. The result will, in my view, be a fairly rapid improvement in the team's fortunes.

It would be a shame if TGR and Bluey didn't come across. And I reckon that if the Demonology boys want to play we could just let them have their own thread and if anyone went there is would be at their own risk. Of course, there would have to be certain limits ...

You missed a sizeable step before that. Step 1) Convince him to come? DONE - big bag of money. Step 3) Transport him here? DONE - Jetstar domestic flight etc Step 2) Conduct the transfer under AFL rules when his current club doesn't want to let him go? ??? I'll also add that I'm being VERY generous that the big bag of cash in step 1 got the job done. In reality I don't think we'd even make it to the mysterious Step 2, I reckon we'd struggle to stump up enough cash to entice him and stay within the salary cap, because it would take a lot. Players generally don't move for money unless it's an exorbitantly large amount (Scully like), and we won't be in a position to offer that. This idea is nice from a "sticking it up 'em" point of view, but is severely lacking in the practicality department.

I agree, Cale has improved this year and his article emphasised the reasons why. Neeld and co are working with him and it's a worthwhile exercise.

After reading a few of the posts here I've actually changed my mind. Far from being irrelevant, it's a must that Demonology recovers from what ails it. And quickly.

God damn it! This is the greatest MFC injustice since we failed to pick up Dustin Fletcher in the 1957 draft. Devo!

for those who are saying to call GWS and GC bluff on viney are mad i want viney and would be happy to give up pick 3, with viney we know exactly what we are getting and what sort of person he is something we didnt have the luxury with when we drafted scully, and we have had a couple years development in viney so he will be ready to go come round 1 next year and if your a betting person stick some coin on viney to win rising star will romp it in.

In other critical news today, scientists have discovered that grass is green.

BREAKING NEWS: Athletic freak of a ruckman taken at #2 in his draft becomes star.

If there was no Hun, that person on the street would be Mark Robinson and you would be giving your hard earned to the fat, know-nothing anyway...

At least we get to watch that goofy top 10 countdown, and actually be interested. I for one, hope we can swing a deal with the franchises, to prevent them bidding on Viney.

Whats more important to me is that someone smacks Tom Scully. Theres no school like the old school.

Morton frustrates me too, although I think that a couple of posts are reaching 'unfair attack' status, but we have a major problem with the lack of uncontested possessions in this team. Only 6 players average more than 10 a game, and only three of those above 13 a game. Grimes, Jones, and...Morton. Collingwood have 12 players that average more than 10 a game, with Buckley, Shaw, Pendlebury, Didak, Sidebottom, Beams, and Swan all averaging over 13 a game. I used Collingwood as an example to show that it isn't just soft outside players/HBFs that push hard, spread and get uncontested possessions or 'cheap' footy - it is the best players. It is really important.

The greatest player ever. LOL! Not even the greatest player of his draft year. FFS, if NicNat was in a Melbourne jumper he'd get abused for his poor skills. And he wouldn't get a touch. Yet when Watts has a great game he needs to "find consistency and is too soft". The disparity between the two in terms of level headed evaluation is a joke. Friggin MFCSS!

If anything his form demonstrates our stupidity in allowing Carlton to lose the Kreuzer Cup game. Had we lost we would have had picks 1 & 2 the following year enabling us to take both Watts and Naitanui.

He's a talent no doubt but there is no way we got the wrong player. In time both clubs will win on this deal.

A good run from Martin should see him up for the GWS game I think. In another thread I have said it would be good to see Cook in the ones but the bye is not helping his chances. If the VFL is to take the place of a reserves comp then there should be no weekend off for rep duties (one less bye). Do it like the NRL and play through, too bad if you have players out, suck it up like Storm have to or can it.

so casey 1s have another bye?? for [censored] sake this would have to be the worst fixture in the country! would love if it went back to the old reserves teams again!

A lot of people taking the short term view with Cale. I couldn't care less if a few bad turnovers now lead to a slightly larger loss, even when it could have been a win. I want him to iron out his flaws, turn his weaknesses into strengths and be an integral part of our next premiership team. A handful of errors now aren't going to worry me. Make no mistake - I'm not happy with them. But as long as he learns from them and continues to improve - as he has done this season - I am can live with it. Same goes for any other player we have out there.

The thing is he runs hard and into space which is half the battle, we got flogged in the first term largely due to not having players in space and in turn time to use the ball, Cale offers this. His kicking is definite worry but i hold out that he will turn it around, people saying delist after 4 years he is only 22.....and we arnt great at providing options this is the most frustrating part of our game. See endless number of Collingwood players leading hard, sprinting ect for an option we never ever have that, Collinwood played with so much space it wasnt funny

not at all. I Gave him 5 votes today too. had a couple of clangers, as did ebveryone. but the intensity and effort were the best he has produced all year

3 more years of Jamar in the ruck makes me want to vomit. Every time Clark went into the middle we looked better. People who are bagging Cale have NFI. Sure he had a howler in the 3rd but he was pretty useful today. If only others on our list were as smart.