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I don't claim to be guilty But I do understand There's a Law, there's an Arm, there's a Hand - Leonard Cohen "The Law" THE EXILE by Whispering Jack Liam Jurrah's exile began when his flight landed at Melbourne Airport yesterday afternoon. An elder of the community of Yuendumu caught both within and between different cultures, he stands charged by the law of the land with unlawfully causing serious harm and being armed with an offensive weapon at night after an alleged machete attack left a relative in hospital with serious head injuries. The charges will be dealt with at a future time but it must be remembered that nothing alleged has yet been proven and it has been reported that Jurrah has told Melbourne Football Club officials that he did not commit the assault. One thing that is certain is that Liam Jurrah will spend the coming months living in a place far removed from the home and the community which was central to his being for the first two decades of his life. Three years ago, he moved out of the desert to undertake an AFL career, an endeavour that had the full support of his elders who decreed that he was doing so "on Warlpiri business". We don't know whether he will complete the task but that is only part of what has become a tragic story for the player and his troubled community. For Jurrah's part, the physical and mental challenges that faced him were already daunting when he and another man from his tribe entered the Little Sisters Town camp in the remote Yuendumu community on Wednesday night but today they must seem almost insurmountable. His injured wrist will heal over time but Jurrah also has to contend with new systems introduced at the football club requiring a different style of game. It is still unclear as to whether he can adapt to those changes even without the emotional issues swirling in a background of unresolved conflicts among his own people far away in the remote desert settlement from which he has now been banished. The club and the player also need to deal with allegations that the events over which he was charged were fueled by alcohol. One would expect a player in rehabilitation to refrain from alcohol and if the allegations are true, this raises a team discipline issue that needs to be addressed - a matter requiring more than a modicum of wisdom given the cultural boundaries to be traversed in dealing with facts and issues and observing the various laws at play. Not the least of these is the powerful law that drives Liam Jurrah and is paramount to the people of his tribe and of who he is now an elder in exile. There's a Law, there's an Arm and there's a Hand. DEMONLAND NOTE For obvious reasons, we ask for discretion to be used when posting on this matter. Consideration needs to be given to Liam and to all of the parties including the injured man and we all hope for the best possible outcome for all concerned.

Hawthorn have been playing together for several seasons under the same coach. They fielded a strong side today. I'm not trying to make excuses here but the hawks played with confidence today. Their skills were great and all of their players performed well and as a team. I personally would like to thank them for the reality check. Our lads have a considerable gap to close between where that are now and where they need to be to challenge for the top 8.

I agree wholeheartedly. This incident has captured the imagination of many. I, for one, feel devastated. I remember teasing my wife because she seemed to take it personally when Princess Diana was killed. I kept telling her that she shouldn't feel like that for someone she didn't know. in effect, a celebrity. She explained that the whole Princess Diana saga represented a "bigger truth", especially to women. I still don't quite understand it. However, I do somehow feel the same about this situation. Liam Jurrah represented many things to many people. He is one of the most gifted and exciting players I have ever seen. I regarded him as the biggest footballing jewell in the Demon crown, the reason many of us went to games. But his story means much more than that. His journey from Yuendemu has been well documented but this situation highlights just how remarkable a journey it has been. His dignity and determination have been an inspiration to many. The events of the past few days are tragic for so many reasons and bring in to focus the intractable and complex problems facing indigenous communities that are so marginalised and just so different from the world we live in. If there is any good to come out of this it might be the insights gained by the broader community. Liam's future seems so clouded. Like all of us, I don't know if he is guilty or innocent but either way it is difficult to imagine him being able to live a happy life from this point. I certainly fear for his mental and emotional health. He will live in exile and in "limbo" until the legal process is complete. The pressure he is under must be unbearable, from the media, his friends and community, the football club, and from all of us who may have the best intentions at heart. To a person with such dignity and such a burden of responsibility, the impact of such a loss of reputation is hard to contemplate. When Bruce Hearn-McKinnon referred to this as being "Shakespearian", I think he was talking about the feud between the clans. The way things are panning out, I fear that it may have all of the elements of a Shakespearian tragedy. Let's hope not.

I spent last night on my couch, bewildered, reading through the other thread which was locked yesterday, and read alot of things that really made me feel sad. Sad first of all for Liam, Basil and all of Liams people, sad for a few members of Demonland and sad for all of us really. But, I also found something which made me feel a bit more right, and that was a current of feeling that Liam, Basil and their people are more important than Football or even the MFC, and this is something I found quite refreshing. It is a terrible situation for all involved, and one which unfortunately, I feel is not yet over. Thanks must go to the media for largely, but not exclusively (HUN, you know who you are), showing a level of decency and sensitivity very rarely shown by such a pack of wolves. The most important thing I can hope for as a human being is that this sheds some light on the plight of indigenous Australians living in remote communities and that more is done to help them. Liam, I believe that you are a good person, and I hope more than anything that you come through this issue and can go on to make the most of your talents and use your position to try help your people as much as you can.

There is really little to say in relation to the specific incident, other than to acknowledge how sad and unknowable it is for any of us. So a couple of comments on Liam and the MFC. Many have speculated as to the immediate and even long term state of LJ's playing career - Some of the comments have been inappropriate, but with tact, it is not on the whole an inappropriate subject to broach (From all reports it has been foremost in Liam's thoughts throughout). In my view, his short term prospects should be unaffected vis a vis his behaviour. The MFC granted him leave for a serious matter, were seemingly understanding in light of his continued absence, and given his denial and the public record there is little to condemn him for. Therefore, in the short term, Liam's place in the side should be dictated by his ability to live during this time and as always whether he deserves his place on form, fitness, etc. etc. As for the long term, I guess we shall leave that up to the NT courts to decide. Also, as always the Melbourne Football Club has been classy and measured during this time. We're yet to see whether on-field performance can reflect off-field management...but at the very least, the club has projected itself as proud and principled for a sustained period of time (186 withstanding).

I'm arguing with a shallow thinker. Actually, a shallow 'football' thinker, as I gave a "like" to a superb post you made in the Jurrah thread. Green has always been relatively brave, although no doubt he's improved with experience, but he's certainly not hard. There's a difference between having courage and being hard. Green shows enormous courage in marking contests, and it really does take courage, but even now he's far from hard at the footy when the ball is on the deck. It's not the way he plays and he wasn't built that way. I said Watts would presently be exposed in a final. I said that Watts doesn't enjoy physical contact, where others craved it (Brereton, Hurley, Brown, Carey, Hall). It doesn't mean that Watts won't dominate a final in 3 years time. It doesn't mean that Watts won't build his body to a point where he'll no longer be intimidated on a footy field. Once he builds his body he'll gain more confidence. He'll never be a crash and bash forward like the others I mentioned and we don't need him to be. But he certainly needs to markedly improve his physicality and change his mindset. Watts avoids some situations and doesn't excel in others, because right now he lacks confidence in the role being asked of him. He's much more comfortable getting on his bike and showing his class out wide in open spaces, but he's very uncomfortable having the ball kicked on his head for the reasons I've mentioned. I know it, commentators know it, ex-footy players know it, current footy players know it, his teammates know it, and Jack knows it. I'm saying nothing more than what is his current reality. But it certainly doesn't mean I'm writing him off. Many Melbourne supporters are intoxicated by Watts' natural ability and leap to his defence at any given opportunity. I'm sobered by his deficiencies. You can please yourself.

Bloody hell! Tappy looks completely different in this years jumper.

I don't buy the leg excuse. McKenzie has had about 2 weeks of pre- season and was on the bottom of every bloody pack. You either want to go hard, or you don't. Sadly, Davey is the only player in our midfield who can hit a target, so he will get plenty of game time. Find me a replacement, and I'll be happy.

Yes, I'm on a power trip - that's why I've been deleting and editing your posts, and banning you etc. Oh wait - I haven't done any of that. I always get a great belly laugh when people accuse me of being a power tripper - no clue whatsoever. I'm just in a bad mood, really. Yes, you're allowed your opinion, and guess what? I'm allowed to dismiss it, just as the same as any other poster on this site.

I found a great video that gives some insight into the Indigenous Law from Liam Jurrah's part of the country. It's only short (3 mins long), but it is really quite educational. Little things like this becoming more widely viewed would give a lot of Australians a greater appreciation of the extreme culture clash that can occur when White Law and Black Law meet.

Every time I see a photo of the guernsey without a sponsor on it, my blood starts to boil.

Aboriginal life at Yuendumu is for us apparently as unimaginable as life on another planet. The allegations of an alcohol-fueled machete-wielding Liam seem to us so incongruous as to be inconceivable, nothing to do with the Liam we have known for three years. They are images from that other world, and the personal pressures/obligations under which people there live, about which we know nothing. Whatever his actual involvement there was, it certainly doesn't compute for us. The Court - with some degree of local understanding - has sent Liam back to Victoria and, for the present, tells him to stay away from that other world. Who can find fault with that? With what paternalistic ignorance would we add our judgement? So I say, we should accept him back with gratitude. On the footy field here, he will still be the extraordinarily talented and imaginative player we have marvelled at for the past three years - which may not be who he is in the Northern Territory, but it certainly is someone he wants to be. Perhaps Liam will in time process these two lives he lives, and discover some way of harmonising these two worlds he is connected to. Maybe he won't. Maybe it can't be done. What a really wonderful thing it would be if it could happen. But we should at least embrace him living here, welcoming him back to the MFC and maybe trusting that the "alternative story" of the Liam who lives in our world - one of the most extraordinary and talented and courageous people in the AFL - will in time be strengthened, and will be good for him. He is some pioneer, whatever the eventual outcome! A privilege to call him ours.

Agreed. Anyone up in arms about Joseph Kony should have a look at what's going on in Central Australian communities like Yuendumu. People there are stabbing each other with knives, hacking members of their family up with machetes and becoming trapped in a cycle of poverty, drug addiction and violence. Indigenous people often feel an obligation to their own tribal law, even though carrying out the retribution and "payback" expected of them is likely to get them thrown in jail and lead to the their people being labeled "savages." We should clean up the mess in our own back-yard before even worrying about how to solve problems half a world away, because if we're not smart enough to help our own people, then we're definitely not smart enough to help people we only feel compassion for because we saw a thirty minute video on the Internet.

If you really want to do your head in, if we lost to Carlton the first time we played them in 2007, not the Kreuzer cup (they then went on to lose something like 12 games in a row), Richmond would've finished last, we'd have gotten pick 2 (and Trent Cotchin, not Morton) and to top it off, Carlton wouldn't have been able to lure Judd across.

Or Patrick Dangerfield............

agreed... this is a real worry jones clark and howe were the only winners for me tonight, and mckenzie - as usual - gave his all when he came on

......and please don't tell me we could have had Cyril ahead of Morton. Please don't.

FFS it's NAB Cup an have you all forgotten last weeks game, people were talking Top 4, welcome to reality, we are a fair way off the Hawks but we are not as bad as some are stating. As I said in other posts you don't just flick a switch and turn things around, it will happen at some stage but really we have played 2 full games and as some even said in the game day post we did not play the style they have seen in training. Take a deep breath it's pre season when we try things the real season starts in three weeks time, then we can see were we are at.

I just thought we played a side with a very good, well developed game plan that is far superior in every way to where we are at. I would have liked to think we might have had more composure and more of a plan when we had the ball, but I think we very much reverted back to old habits and kicked the ball haphazardly. I think the "lack of run" is an issue, but hey, we all know we have a midfield problem. Hawthorn don't have that much "run" - they play to their strengths.

A bad loss against a good side in a game that means very little Fairly dismissive - where was the passion to COMPETE....what did Malthouse call it???? To run with AMBITION. To show the footy world that we can't be pushovers anymore!!!!!! One bump all arvo/evening.....and Hodge still got up even though he was hurtin'

Outclassed, but expected. I was hoping to see it get within 10 goals. I thought Davey chased well early on...not so towards the end. Fitz needs a lot more time in Casey but he's a big man give him another 2-3 years before we judge. Some of the tap work wasnt too bad. Really happy that Neild kept Davis on Hale even though he was getting killed, some great lessons. Also great for Garland to have to play 2 different games (loose in first half and on Buddy in 2nd). Frawley is truly a great backman. Lots to work on but thats the NAB cup.

I'd be happier with Casey, at least one of us would get a win.

Our intensity at the man was not the same as last week but we won the contested possesion count and went down in the clearances by 3. As many have said we seriously lack midfield polish hence we get it and bombed it straight to where they had numbers. Clark, Jones and Howe the only positives for mine. Nicholson is not an AFL footballer, Bail appears to have gone backwards and I cant see Bate playing midfield for very long except at Casey. A bad loss against a good side in a game that means very little.

maybe we could play williamstown or werribee?

sylvia wasn't bad, he's just very, very, very stupid.

I was in and out of watching the game so I missed a fair bit, but I actually thought I saw some good things from Flash. A few chase down tackles, attempted smothers etc. The thing that I didn't like from him was he missed some pretty stock standard chances that as a forward he must kick all year. So far everything I've seen of Clark has me convinced he be a sensational pick up for us, Howe looks like he's going to have an excellent year, and again there were some good things from Watts. Our conversion rate is pretty good, but we just need to get it down there more. Disappointing game from Moloney & Sylvia, two guys that need to step up their game v quality opposition.

That sucked.

Reminds me of 1988....yet again....

Demolished in the clearances. Standard against the hawks

It looks like Aaron Davey's leg is still troubling him; but if you ask me, his desire to play hard, competitive footy is totally spent. Barring injuries to other players, I don't see him in our side half-way through this year. Certainly not even at our Club in a couple of years time.

What the hell was that from Davey? He just gave up and didn't chase...

Don't take too much from it. Only the NAB. Besides, it's gonna take Neeld and team a whole year and a half to sort out this lot (and build them up physically/mentally) after the last few years and the debacle that Bailey left behind. He'll need at least 3 years to turn them into a consistantly competative unit that can take on the top 5 on any given week and then challenge for the big one therafter IMO. Much patience needed fellow demonoids.

Indeed. Some weeks it seems a bit pointless caring about footy. Exhausting and defeating.

Seriously, I'm not that drunk but are we being raped by the umpires or what? Sure, we are ordinary, but there seems to be 2 different rules for two sides.... woeful. P.s: the long, hurried kick is NOT a game plan.

is it really that unreasonable a request, to have fair umpiering? The AFL is fixed!!!! [censored] this [censored]!!!!!!!

Umpiring today has been massively sh!t, but that is what happens when you are constantly chasing tail. Our midfield is really just incredibly poor.

Hawthorne always kill us but i think the events this week might have played a part in this show. I hope im wrong but they seem like there in another world.

This team of absolute [censored], have had the wood over us for years. Not just because they are supremely talented, but also because they treat us with such contempt and we let them. They know they can throw us around and take the [censored] and they do. All I want in the second half is to see us stand up and dish out some tough treatment. Not stupid punches to the head like Sylvia's heroic moment, but really hurt them in tackles, and make them realise that we aren't their [censored]. For now they are miles better than us, and maybe that will never change, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't expect to leave the ground sore and bruised. If we turn this into a hard slog, as opposed to an easy victory, I'll be happy.

Danny Frawley: "Jack Watts should have shepherded." Meanwhile, the TV replay shows him taking a Hawk out of the contest via a solid bump. Obviously he should have taken out both Hawks. Not sure how you do that, though. Criticism is fine, but make sure you know what you're talking about, Spud!

Here is the thing, we are f'ing woeful against top quality attacking teams still. Looser than a cheap prostitute. For shame.

There is no player in the melbourne footy club tougher than nathan jones. now i know instantly a few of you will jump on this and call it complete toss. I am not talking strength. Because he is a little guy, I am talking hardness. match after match, you see him rush in to get the ball, every game he gets crunched and bashed, and always he just gets up and does it again. I have seen him get run into in ways that would shatter the face of a johnathan brown(although that dosn't seem too hard) and he still comes back for more. when he gets the ball, he is quick, with it, shooting off passes to team mates. at no time is he selfish with the ball. I think the guy has suffered a bit with being too quick and too slick with the ball, and his team-mates not being ready for the pass that is aimed at them. have no doubt that if for the last few years he was playing for geelong or collingwood, he would have been classed as a superstar

Including some pretty damning stuff from the victim and his family on the front page of the HUN. I didn't think that witnesses to a case were supposed to publicly talk about their evidence before a trial or is that just what they say in films?

There are some fascinating articles in today's media about the subject, not the least of which is this brilliant piece from the ever insightful Martin Flanagan in today's Age - Jurrah: a man caught between countries.

And there it is. I was waiting for someone to make that joke. Congratulations, you win the major prize - a chipped coffee mug I bought at a garage sale three years ago. No deliveries. Pickup only.

I won Warnock's jumper from the Shanghai Showdown... to be honest, I wasn't too concerned about whose I got, I just wanted one of those jumpers for the very cool dragon design and players name in Chinese characters :-)

Liam said he wasn't involved and I believe him. I don't think he would have made a comment if he was involved but the fact he said he wasn't makes me confident he is telling the truth.

Seems the other person facing the charges is the same person also charged in relation to the the murder of the man stabbed in the leg a few years ago. Although originally charged with murder those charges were dropped and he pleaded guilty to the assualt of another indiviadual during the fight. Very messy, ongoing stuff. Can only hope that the situation calms down for all involved. Must be hell living with contastnt fear and conflict on all sides. Forget Kony2012 etc, why don't we start in outr own backyard?!

On a side note, I can only be proud of the performance shown by the Melbourne Football Club in regards to Liam. The support and backing they showed him today was absolutely fantastic and hopefully correlates to him opening up and trusting them when he gets back and has a chat with them. Very glad Jim didn't have to cope with this as well. This will really band us together as a club I hope once Liam is back.

There is one thing that matters above all else, and that is, that we help ensure that this incident does not ruin Jurrah's life. So many talented young people in those communities have had their life destroyed due to similar circumstances, and it would be a tragedy if Jurrah's life goes the same way. I firmly believe that football has the ability to save Jurrah from a life of violence and struggle, and I also believe that the financial, emotional and legal support afforded to him as an AFL footballer would greatly benefit his family and community in the future. Already the amount of awareness that he's managed to raise is enormous. Our main focus needs to be on getting his life back on the right path, and to not let one (ableit serious) incident dictate the rest of his very young life. I have no doubt that we will provide the best legal support for him, and I just hope that this helps him recover and return to a life of success. Regardless of what he has done, I think that deep down we all know that he is a good person, caught in a terrible situation. He has had to overcome a lot to make his way in life, and I am hoping that this inner strength allows him to do the same in this case. The best thing we can do is to support him, because it's too easy to wipe your hands clean of people when they have done something wrong, but like it or not, Jurrah is one of our own now and it is our duty to protect and help him.

Hard to express the sadness I feel at the prospect of losing Jurrah from the club and our game, then the realisation at how absurd that is when in comparison to the other challenges Jurrah faces are so much greater. Either way, I feel pretty damn empty. On the flip side, if he ever gets back to playing for MFC, I feel that we as supporters will appreciate his exploits on the field like never before (maybe as we should have from the start).