7 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

Subbing May with 5 minutes to go would have been an easy call.

oh right, if just talking about the GF, then sure. a few minutes on the ground would have made sense.

Jordon was out 23rd best play in 2021. Those saying we should have played him more don't remember how good our 22 was.

For the best part of three quarters on Friday night we had a very congested fwd line, I’m putting it down to fatigue but we can’t have a repeat of this. When we play with an open fwd line we’ve looked very dangerous.

9 hours ago, Cranky Franky said:

Absolute chronic underachievement but I see you have his excuses down pat.

2 straight sets eliminations including 3 games when we were the better side.

Have you forgotten 2017 ?

How did 2019 & 2020 go for you

And stayed on 2 years after it was obvious he was cooked.

Do you think Nicks deserves the sack if the Crows go out in straight sets 2 years in a row?

*assuming they somehow make it

On a side note, XT came down to a function at East Ringwood Football Club last night.

He was very respectful, happily signing autographs and taking photos for the budding 8-15 year olds.

I asked him how he was going at the club, said he is loving it, and the vibe is they are playing with a bit more freedom compared to what he heard under Goody.

I’m 178cm, and he towered over me. I certainly had him for weight, reckon he may have me for skill and speed.

I was certainly impressed how he handled himself coming back to his junior club, where his whole family have been involved.

Think we have a good one ☝️

2 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

24 and 25 Goodwin probably remained to loyal and this fractured the group.

We'll have to wait for the book, but from recent revelations, that may not be the case.

Also, it wasn't just the group that was fractured, it was the whole club. Remarkable what a difference it makes when from the President down everyone is on the same page.

(Not saying it wasn't right to move Goodwin on, but at least the incoming powers that be - as well as various incumbents - understood that our failings didn't start and end with Goodwin.)

Edited 9 hours ago9 hr by bing181

52 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

Subbing May with 5 minutes to go would have been an easy call.

If you had been in Jordan's place, do you think you would have wanted to be subbed on with 5 minutes to go? I wouldn't.

14 minutes ago, Chook said:

If you had been in Jordan's place, do you think you would have wanted to be subbed on with 5 minutes to go? I wouldn't.

Agree - tokenism at its worst

56 minutes ago, Roy Boy said:

On a side note, XT came down to a function at East Ringwood Football Club last night.

He was very respectful, happily signing autographs and taking photos for the budding 8-15 year olds.

I asked him how he was going at the club, said he is loving it, and the vibe is they are playing with a bit more freedom compared to what he heard under Goody.

I’m 178cm, and he towered over me. I certainly had him for weight, reckon he may have me for skill and speed.

I was certainly impressed how he handled himself coming back to his junior club, where his whole family have been involved.

Think we have a good one ☝️

Good to hear!

Was Steven May there? Any melees to speak of? 😬

The SCG is small. The MCG is big. And other things we say without thinking.

Every time we play at the SCG, the pre-game discourse runs the same ritual. The ground is small. The Swans exploit it. We'll need to adjust.

Every time we play at Adelaide Oval, Perf or the Gabba - silence. The ground is just a ground. This inconsistency matters, because the facts don't support the narrative.

The AFL's official playing surface dimensions are 149 × 136 m for the SCG, 160 × 141 m for the MCG. Treating both as ellipses gives areas of roughly 15,900 m² and 17,700 m² respectively . . . an 11% difference. Real, but not the chasm the discourse implies.

More to the point: the MCG is one of the shorter grounds in the competition by length, and the widest. It is not a vast open expanse. The SCG's 136 m width exceeds Perth's Optus Stadium (130 m), Marvel Stadium (129 m), GIANTS Stadium (128 m), Adelaide Oval (124 m) and Pork Barrel Park (115 m). Meanwhile Adelaide Oval runs 167 m long and Optus Stadium 165 m — and we never mention any of that before we play there.

The SCG reputation calcified when the ground was genuinely shorter. It has been progressively lengthened since 2007. The commentary hasn't updated accordingly. Worth keeping in mind on Saturday.

22 minutes ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

The SCG is small. The MCG is big. And other things we say without thinking.

Every time we play at the SCG, the pre-game discourse runs the same ritual. The ground is small. The Swans exploit it. We'll need to adjust.

Every time we play at Adelaide Oval, Perf or the Gabba - silence. The ground is just a ground. This inconsistency matters, because the facts don't support the narrative.

The AFL's official playing surface dimensions are 149 × 136 m for the SCG, 160 × 141 m for the MCG. Treating both as ellipses gives areas of roughly 15,900 m² and 17,700 m² respectively . . . an 11% difference. Real, but not the chasm the discourse implies.

More to the point: the MCG is one of the shorter grounds in the competition by length, and the widest. It is not a vast open expanse. The SCG's 136 m width exceeds Perth's Optus Stadium (130 m), Marvel Stadium (129 m), GIANTS Stadium (128 m), Adelaide Oval (124 m) and Pork Barrel Park (115 m). Meanwhile Adelaide Oval runs 167 m long and Optus Stadium 165 m — and we never mention any of that before we play there.

The SCG reputation calcified when the ground was genuinely shorter. It has been progressively lengthened since 2007. The commentary hasn't updated accordingly. Worth keeping in mind on Saturday.

Great point. I think a lot of people don't realise how they have expanded the ground over time.

Its still the shortest but not by much. Pretty much the same size as the Gabba now.

52 minutes ago, Chook said:

If you had been in Jordan's place, do you think you would have wanted to be subbed on with 5 minutes to go? I wouldn't.

I would.

Game well in the bag and an injured FB.

He would still have his Premiership joy, even if he left the ground in the last 5-10 minutes.

3 hours ago, Adam The God said:

Sydney finished 10th last year. They weren't a top side. And we beat them comfortably.

By injury only - they were a GF team in 24 & are right back there again - they're absolutely a top side when fit

2 hours ago, Waverley said:

Yes true, but he still was playing a faster game plan, and Sydney have better forwards, it's amazing when you have tall forward who mark those bombs, all of a sudden your midfield hit more targets in the forward line, but the poster said he he did not Employ a faster game plan, which he did didn't he ? King has improved it and made it better, But we didn't just start playing fast all of a sudden, Sometimes it takes a couple of years to get the game plan right.

Goodwin has had couple of years using a fast game plan, now in that 3nd year he has got it working, just at a another club. Now you can say yes you're right, but you won't.

I think you're greatly over simplifying what has occured - the game plan is not just improved, it's core is different with a similar aim - they're not the same. Sydney don't just 'bomb' it in to forwards that are there - Melbourne's issue was always the delivery & less the forward structure or personel.

There is no right or wrong when it's an opinon - that's the definition of an opinion.

I disagree with your opinion & you can say I agree with yours, but you won't...??? See how bizarre of a comment that is

33 minutes ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

The SCG is small. The MCG is big. And other things we say without thinking.

Every time we play at the SCG, the pre-game discourse runs the same ritual. The ground is small. The Swans exploit it. We'll need to adjust.

Every time we play at Adelaide Oval, Perf or the Gabba - silence. The ground is just a ground. This inconsistency matters, because the facts don't support the narrative.

The AFL's official playing surface dimensions are 149 × 136 m for the SCG, 160 × 141 m for the MCG. Treating both as ellipses gives areas of roughly 15,900 m² and 17,700 m² respectively . . . an 11% difference. Real, but not the chasm the discourse implies.

More to the point: the MCG is one of the shorter grounds in the competition by length, and the widest. It is not a vast open expanse. The SCG's 136 m width exceeds Perth's Optus Stadium (130 m), Marvel Stadium (129 m), GIANTS Stadium (128 m), Adelaide Oval (124 m) and Pork Barrel Park (115 m). Meanwhile Adelaide Oval runs 167 m long and Optus Stadium 165 m — and we never mention any of that before we play there.

The SCG reputation calcified when the ground was genuinely shorter. It has been progressively lengthened since 2007. The commentary hasn't updated accordingly. Worth keeping in mind on Saturday.

On that basis VFL park Waverley was 200 m X 200 m .... Monstrous Ground! Played there once and here's a fun fact for you Represented MFC in the Sunkick there and had a best kick of 61 m and an average of 54. Came second to a bloke who went and represented Hawks ... Brown. The other time I played there was a special. I kicked a couple of goals but sheeeeeeit Jahesssuss H Carrrrrryst IT WAS AN ENORMOUS ground, I was standing on the Half forward Flank and it seemed I was 100 m from goal and it looked like the other half of the grounds players had the bottom of their legs cut of looking at the other end. The other part that if found interesting is that there were 20 + showers in the rooms, I couldn't believe it!

Edited 8 hours ago8 hr by picket fence

1 hour ago, bing181 said:

We'll have to wait for the book, but from recent revelations, that may not be the case.

Also, it wasn't just the group that was fractured, it was the whole club. Remarkable what a difference it makes when from the President down everyone is on the same page.

(Not saying it wasn't right to move Goodwin on, but at least the incoming powers that be - as well as various incumbents - understood that our failings didn't start and end with Goodwin.)

On 14/08/2025 at 23:45, bing181 said:

Even a week or more down the track, still feel that the Board have gone off half-cocked here. The "fresh voice" discourse is weak and flawed, almost laughable. The litmus test for me will be what OTHER changes they make, including to themselves. Changing the coach without seeing consequential changes elsewhere is just a deck-chair-moving exercise.

I suspect (without any inside knowledge), that they were spooked by a) commercial considerations (sponsorship, membership) for which they would have had figures and feedback and b) the possibility of other clubs moving on their own coaches, leaving us to play catch-up if we were to go down this path post-season.

That b) also includes not just other coaches, but players, assistants and other FD staff - with a new coach there's not enough time for any negatives to stick, so we can sell nothing but positives: yes, we know you're a key forward who likes the ball delivered out in front, and yes the kicking into the forward line has been abysmal, but we have a new coach who's going to fix it yadda yadda.

There's also a c) here that could be part of the board's thinking: if they recognised a need for wholesale change across the FD, list and club, then it needed a circuit breaker to start the Jonedominos falling. And there's no bigger circuit breaker than sacking the head coach. Much easier to move on a Petracca, Fritsch, Jones, Green or Richardson if you've done Goodwin first.

You defended Goodwin to the death, saying changing the coach rarely works etc etc. I had a good laugh re-reading some of your comments.

Feel free at any point to just come out and say you got it completely wrong

1 hour ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

The SCG is small. The MCG is big. And other things we say without thinking.

Every time we play at the SCG, the pre-game discourse runs the same ritual. The ground is small. The Swans exploit it. We'll need to adjust.

Every time we play at Adelaide Oval, Perf or the Gabba - silence. The ground is just a ground. This inconsistency matters, because the facts don't support the narrative.

The AFL's official playing surface dimensions are 149 × 136 m for the SCG, 160 × 141 m for the MCG. Treating both as ellipses gives areas of roughly 15,900 m² and 17,700 m² respectively . . . an 11% difference. Real, but not the chasm the discourse implies.

More to the point: the MCG is one of the shorter grounds in the competition by length, and the widest. It is not a vast open expanse. The SCG's 136 m width exceeds Perth's Optus Stadium (130 m), Marvel Stadium (129 m), GIANTS Stadium (128 m), Adelaide Oval (124 m) and Pork Barrel Park (115 m). Meanwhile Adelaide Oval runs 167 m long and Optus Stadium 165 m — and we never mention any of that before we play there.

The SCG reputation calcified when the ground was genuinely shorter. It has been progressively lengthened since 2007. The commentary hasn't updated accordingly. Worth keeping in mind on Saturday.

Interesting on the ground size. The alternative perspective is that 11 percent is actually quite a big difference in that its like having both teams having an extra 2 men on the ground in terms of player coverage per square foot. Is that a lot, dunno.

Theoretically, being wider should increase the potential to use the corridor as the defence needs to stretch to cover the wings wider. Something Sydney have nailed this year.

14 minutes ago, Jjrogan said:

Interesting on the ground size. The alternative perspective is that 11 percent is actually quite a big difference in that its like having both teams having an extra 2 men on the ground in terms of player coverage per square foot. Is that a lot, dunno.

Theoretically, being wider should increase the potential to use the corridor as the defence needs to stretch to cover the wings wider. Something Sydney have nailed this year.

It is a lot. The point by QB is 11% off…

Seriously, who sees those stats and thinks it helps their argument that the SCG is not much different in this professional game

47 minutes ago, heath55 said:

By injury only - they were a GF team in 24 & are right back there again - they're absolutely a top side when fit

Good point.

I think it's always useful to remember that year after year the injury ladder explains around 12% of where teams finish...real enough to take seriously, not strong enough to be the whole story. The injury ladder is genuine, not just supporter excuse-making. It just doesn't operate in isolation.

cough "get my nerd on"

A Deakin University study published in the British Journal of Sports Medicine tracked 15,000+ injuries across all 18 clubs over 20 years and found that teams whose key players stayed available consistently finished higher. The twist is that raw games-lost barely tells you anything (explains about 3% of ladder position). Once you weight those missed games by who is missing, like your best and fairest calibre players, then the signal gets much stronger and explains around 12% of where a team finishes. For every 9 weighted missed games involving quality players, a team drops roughly one ladder spot. Miss more than 27 of those and you're almost certainly outside the eight.

Richmond's 2017 premiership is the poster child- Martin, Cotchin, Rance and Riewoldt combined to miss two games all season. Two. West Coast in 2022 and 2023 missed 135 and 126 games respectively and were wooden spooners both years.

So the correlation is real, it holds every year, and the key detail is always who - losing a fringe player is a footnote (not Clarksons, one soldier in, one soldier out sermon), losing your best-and-fairest finisher for 10 weeks, is a ladder position.

3 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Goodwin won a flag and outside of 2019 we improved every year in the lead up to that flag.

We all know the reasons for 2019 with regard to who and the numbers who had impacted pre seasons.

22 and 23 were disappointing in the end but think we were cooked coming into September of 22 and in 23 whilst late injuries to Petty and Melksham impacted I think we shot ourselves in the foot with conversion

24 and 25 Goodwin probably remained to loyal and this fractured the group.

I have to laugh at those who don’t rate Goodwin, apparently Yze won us the flag as an assistant and Goodwin benefited

Sydney missed finals last year and now the team with the best ball movement has him as an assistant and funnily enough he is responsible for their ball movement

The CF and PFs of this site will never give him credit

Indeed.

I'd add, rate Goody or don't rate him, whilst opinion is by definition subjective, facts are facts and by definition objective. And these are the facts:

• Goody has coached 203 senior AFL games, winning 57% of those games

• Goody has coached 10 finals at a 50% win rate

• Goody has won a won a flag (at club that had not won one for 57 years)

• I've not checked, but I'm guessing historically those numbers put Goody in very rare air in terms of VFL/AFL senior coaches

• In the year before he got the senior coach gig, 2016, the dees won 10 games and finished with a percentage of 97

• In his first year of senior coaching, 2017, we won 12 games, and we finished ninth, with the equal number of points as the Bombers and Eagles who finished 7th and 8th respectively - missing finals by the smallest margin ever, 0.5%

• In 2017 Goody implemented a number of innovations, the most famous of which was the 'flying V' from half back that many believe was the driver for thw AFL bringing in the 6-6-6 rule

• In his second year, 2018, we won 14 games, finished 5th, had a percentage of 131.4 (remarkably, 3rd highest of any team) and made the prelim

• And before losing the prelim in 2018, Goody coached two finals wins (Cats and then Hawks at the G) that many dees fans who went, me included, rate as among the very best footy experiences of their lives

• In the back half of the 2018 season, we were widely considered to be playing the most exciting, aggressive footy in the AFL - much like the Swans and Dees this year, we were hyper aggressive with our ball movement and a hell of a lot of fun to watch

• Perhaps recognising he didn't have the player profile that game plan demanded to win a flag, he instead retooled his entire method and built a game plan famously underpinned by contest and defence, one that better suited our list profile, and in particular that of our very best players - Tracc, Clazz and Viney

• Yep, we went out in straight sets in 2022 and 2023, but we finished top 4 both seasons and if my memory serves me correctly, we set a club record (and possibly an AFL/VFL record?) for number of weeks in the top 4

• Goody has been appointed Director of Coaching and Performance at the Swans - that's fact, my opinion is that the Swans, a club widely respected, are exceedingly unlikely to have made that appointment if they didn't rate Goody very, very highly

• The Swans are playing a hyper aggressive ball movement that has the Swans playing high scoring, dominant football - that's fact, it's my opinion that logic suggest Goody has been a big driver of that model given he is responsible for 'team strategy, training implementation, and overall offense'

This is opinion, not fact but my view is if Brayshaw did not get knocked out against the Pies we win the flag in 2023.

And i also have the opinion the trauma from that event, and of Gus's subsequent forced retirement, had an extraordinary impact on the whole club and was massive factor in things unraveling from 2024.

Edited 7 hours ago7 hr by binman

3 minutes ago, binman said:

And i also have the opinion the trauma from that event, and of Gus's subsequent forced retirement, had an extraordinary impact on the whole club and was massive factor in things unraveling from 2024.

This. ❤️

I'll be looking at this game as a free hit whilst looking for us to put in a much better performance that our two other interstate outings.

I love how unexpectedly we’re 4th on the ladder with a new coach, have arguably two of the top 5 players in the comp right now and more than a dozen other seriously talented players on the rise…and this forum continues to spend most of its time arguing about Simon Goodwin and Clayton Oliver.

12 minutes ago, binman said:

Indeed.

I'd add, rate him or don't rate him Goody, whilst opinion is by definition subjective, facts are facts and by definition objective. And these are the facts:

• Goody has coached 2023 senior AFL games, won 57% of those games, has coached 10 finals (50% win rate) and has won a flag (at club that had not won one for 57 years)

• I've not checked, but I'm guessing historically those numbers put Goody in rare air in terms of VFL/AFL senior coaches

• In the year before he got the senior coach gig, 2016, the dees won 10 games and finished with a % of 97%

• In his first year of senior coaching, 2017, we won 12 games, finished 7th and 8th respectively, and we finished ninth, with the equal number of points as the Bombers and Eagles who finished 7th and 8th respectively - missing finals by the smallest margin ever, 0.5%

• In 2027 Goody implemented a number of innovations, the most famous of which was the 'flying V' from half back that many believe was the driver for bringing in the 6-6-6 rule

• In his second year, 2018, we won 14 games, had a percentage 131.4 (remarkably, 3rd highest of any team), finished 5th and made the prelim

• And before losing the prelim in 2028, Goody coached two finals wins (Cats and then Hawks at the G) that many dees fans who went, me included, rate as among the very best footy experiences of their lives

• In the back half of the 2018 season, we were widely considered to be playing the most exciting, aggressive footy in the AFL - much like the Swans and Dees this year, we were hyper aggressive with our ball movement and a hell of a lot of fun to watch

• Perhaps recognising he didn't have the player profile that game plan demanded in order to win a flag, he instead retooled his entire method and built a game plan famously underpinned by contest and defence, that better suited our list profile, and in particular that of our very best players - Tracc, Clazz and Viney

• Yep, we went out in straight sets in 2022 and 2023, but we finished top 4 both seasons and if my memory serves me correctly, we set a club record (and possibly an AFL/VFL record?) for number of weeks in the top 4

• Goody has been Director of Coaching and Performance at the Swans - that's fact, my opinion is that the Swans, a club widely respected, are exceedingly unlikely to have made that appointment if they didn't rate Goody very, very highly

• The Swans are playing a hyper aggressive ball movement that has the Swans playing such high scoring, dominant football - that's fact, it's my opinion that logic suggest Goody has been a big driver of that model given in his role he is responsible for 'team strategy, training implementation, and overall offense'

This is opinion, not fact but my view is if Brayshaw did not get knocked out against the Pies we win the flag.

And i also have the opinion the trauma from that event, and of Gus's subsequent forced retirement, had an extraordinary impact on the whole club and was massive factor in things unraveling from 2024.

I had to do a double take on 2023 games… ;-)

Oh dear, the old, "We would have won a flag had Brayshaw not been knocked out"

It's like reading a drunk Steven May at the best and fairest.

That same night Collingwood had no Nick Daicos playing who was an All Australian that same year as well as voted AFL Coaches Association Best Young Player.

17 minutes ago, The Cult of Disco Turner said:

I love how unexpectedly we’re 4th on the ladder with a new coach, have arguably two of the top 5 players in the comp right now and more than a dozen other seriously talented players on the rise…and this forum continues to spend most of its time arguing about Simon Goodwin and Clayton Oliver.

Not true at all Disco. Lots of us are more than happy chat about the Consultant/Brand/CP5 as well as those you have already mentioned.

In all seriousness though, I don’t mind people still venting or going on about ex players or coaches just rather it stays in threads relevant to those topics.