Have we lost an edge?

[Pates 9,661]

Haven't done a thread for a while but it's something that I've been feeling for a while. 2021 one of the things that we had going for us was that we were hard at the ball and high in pressure, particularly in the forward half. Since that year though I haven't felt like we've had that same physical edge to us, and adding to that I don't feel like we are ruthless enough or strike any fear into other teams. I look at our team and I feel like when things are getting tough, we get bullied.

I hate bringing it up but the loss of Gus 5min into a final this time last season was a time for our players to raise that side to another level. Instead it looked like Viney was the only player genuinely flying the flag for a teammate and since this we've almost looked gun-shy. The way our players showed up to the QB showed we don't have a mean bone in our bodies, we want to play the game as gentlemen, and only act tough to save face at times. Kozzie plays the game on the edge and unfortunately gets suspended (personally I feel this latest one is OTT in suspension) but at least he gives a bit of mongrel.

So to the point of the thread, how can we shift this mentality? How can we get an edge about us again? We've got an off-season to be able to make us a finals/premiership contender, and this is an area I feel needs improvement. I'm sick of seeing us look like the bullied kid at school.

[DubDee 26,191]

Did the bombers steal our edge?

[Demonstone 23,098]

We'll never be a side if we don't have an edge.

[adonski 12,569]

We've lost the Edge but are yet to lose the Christian

[Little Goffy 14,664]

Too many players with too much of a disturbance to their pre-season meant that there were always gaps in the defensive running to block options, which meant that there were too many ways for opponents to evade the pressure we did apply.

The more that happens, the harder it is too maintain the morale necessary to keep running to cover and to apply pressure.

I suspect that it was an awareness of this problem which made us attempt to develop a better attacking style in order to balance the extra goals we were inevitably going to leak. Unfortunately, well, we didn't make it work.

The proverbial 'big preseason' could restore that defensive running system and make the pressure efforts much more effective - bringing back the 'edge' as described in the OP.

Having said that, we really have to work on our attacking system. Interesting challenge for the new forward line coach, for sure. That could be a destiny-shaping recruitment decision.

 

[Beetle 4,689]

1 hour ago, adonski said:

We've lost the Edge but are yet to lose the Christian

I got it anyway.

 

[Superunknown 4,225]

Fken oath we have

someone should have walked out of a melee in the QF with Maynard laid out and our blokes all Sgt Schultz - I know nothing

absolutely [censored] weak from the players and the club exec for not going postal on all fronts in the media

a terrible disappointment and a key reason they didn’t get $500 spent on membership from me this year 

 

QB with the risible and vomit inducing friendship with Maynard did it for me. Just Don’t It. 

Edited September 15, 2024 by Superunknown

[DeeSpencer 26,091]

We’ve lost Hibberd and even someone like Vanders who wasn’t best 22 in 2021 but was a maniac tackler and aggressive player.

None of our mature age recruits the last couple of years are really physical players. McAdam doesn’t mind dishing it out but he’s wreckless.

JVR as a draft pick has some aggression.

There’s hope for Kolt, he doesn’t mind a scrap. And Caleb is a great run down tackler, that’s how he exerts himself physically on the contest.

We need run and skills but watching finals so much of the game is guys who can turn up the heat. 

[BigBadBustling 414]

Don't push me, I'm close

[Bobby McKenzie 2,391]

4 hours ago, Pates said:

Haven't done a thread for a while but it's something that I've been feeling for a while. 2021 one of the things that we had going for us was that we were hard at the ball and high in pressure, particularly in the forward half. Since that year though I haven't felt like we've had that same physical edge to us, and adding to that I don't feel like we are ruthless enough or strike any fear into other teams. I look at our team and I feel like when things are getting tough, we get bullied.

I hate bringing it up but the loss of Gus 5min into a final this time last season was a time for our players to raise that side to another level. Instead it looked like Viney was the only player genuinely flying the flag for a teammate and since this we've almost looked gun-shy. The way our players showed up to the QB showed we don't have a mean bone in our bodies, we want to play the game as gentlemen, and only act tough to save face at times. Kozzie plays the game on the edge and unfortunately gets suspended (personally I feel this latest one is OTT in suspension) but at least he gives a bit of mongrel.

So to the point of the thread, how can we shift this mentality? How can we get an edge about us again? We've got an off-season to be able to make us a finals/premiership contender, and this is an area I feel needs improvement. I'm sick of seeing us look like the bullied kid at school.

Winning the first 10 games in 2022 meant that at that stage we hadn't lost our edge. Maybe then we began to think that winning was too easy and became far too confident in our approach. Lets get it back in 25.

 

[David-Demon 568]

1 hour ago, Bobby McKenzie said:

Winning the first 10 games in 2022 meant that at that stage we hadn't lost our edge. Maybe then we began to think that winning was too easy and became far too confident in our approach. Lets get it back in 25.

 

You raise some good points: Firstly, I do not think the hunger is there as it was in 2021. To miss the Finals - someone needs to be accountable, and I feel an independent review may well just cover tracks that we already know need improvement, as you point out, and frankly, that is due to a somewhat a "stale" motivational atmosphere at the Club. Maybe it is time for other Coaches, Med staff, and some admin staff to hand over the reins to a new breed. I believe the player base is not that of a concern. The obvious improvement needs to come from better recruiting, a backup for the aging Gawn, and an improved forward structure - not to mention outside mids. Finally, losing Tracca and Oliver at crucial times made life harder.

[Spirit of '87 338]

[D4Life 2,572]

9 hours ago, Pates said:

Haven't done a thread for a while but it's something that I've been feeling for a while. 2021 one of the things that we had going for us was that we were hard at the ball and high in pressure, particularly in the forward half. Since that year though I haven't felt like we've had that same physical edge to us, and adding to that I don't feel like we are ruthless enough or strike any fear into other teams. I look at our team and I feel like when things are getting tough, we get bullied.

I hate bringing it up but the loss of Gus 5min into a final this time last season was a time for our players to raise that side to another level. Instead it looked like Viney was the only player genuinely flying the flag for a teammate and since this we've almost looked gun-shy. The way our players showed up to the QB showed we don't have a mean bone in our bodies, we want to play the game as gentlemen, and only act tough to save face at times. Kozzie plays the game on the edge and unfortunately gets suspended (personally I feel this latest one is OTT in suspension) but at least he gives a bit of mongrel.

So to the point of the thread, how can we shift this mentality? How can we get an edge about us again? We've got an off-season to be able to make us a finals/premiership contender, and this is an area I feel needs improvement. I'm sick of seeing us look like the bullied kid at school.

Collingwood 🤮 bully us, makes me want to 🤮 Maynard and Cox both snipers and we never respond!

Backup ruckman for Gawn needs to be hard at it!

Need one or two hard players!

May, Salem, Viney, Hibberd even Brayshaw went hard in 2021 GF.

May and Salem dropped off since then.

[Whispering_Jack 30,906]

As Collingwood showed in 2022 and 2023 and Carlton last year until ⅔ of the way through this season, the real edge is the ability to win close games and to win from behind. 

We were overwhelmed by too many challenges in 2024 but there’s no reason why we can’t regain the edge in 2025. We still have a good core of our premiership team and with a good pre season run a number of our key players who had an interrupted 2024 can return to full health and fitness in 2025. Added to that is the fact that we have up and coming young players who are in the range of their careers where we should see rapid improvement.

Based on where we finished, we should have a better fixture in terms of who we play and less interstate matches.

I’m confident we will regain the edge and surprise a few of the naysayers around here.

[DEE32 100]

I agree we are way too nice and intimidated by opposition. That could be said about the supporter base as well. 
In 21 we did have an edge but I believe it was created from selflessness and parking of Ego’s.

The Nibblers hard defensive running allowed tracc to cheat forward offensively, Petty holding a monster along with May allowed Lever to play free. Ben Brown took the no1 backman allowing Fritta space and opportunity. 
Who helped who this year? Every player has a weapon, but is usually reliant on a team mate. 

[layzie 34,119]

[Skuit 10,031]

55 minutes ago, Whispering_Jack said:

As Collingwood showed in 2022 and 2023.... the real edge is the ability to win close games.... 

Take exactly the past twelve months and reverse the outcome of games won or lost by under a goal featuring Collingwood and ourselves, and:

We complete in another preliminary final and Collingwood don't win a premiership. 

We finish with 14 wins this season and compete in our fourth straight finals series while Collingwood finish bottom four with just six wins. 

This thread probably doesn't exist, and MacRae would likely be sacked. 

[The Taciturn Demon 593]

8 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

We’ve lost Hibberd and even someone like Vanders who wasn’t best 22 in 2021 but was a maniac tackler and aggressive player.

I look back now and realise I drastically underrated Hibberd. I always liked him, but never fully appreciated how important that whole never-give-up stuff was until he was gone. 

I never underrated Harmes, but I put him in a similar category - what he lacked in skills he made up for in toughness and team-oriented discipline. We lost something significant when his form dropped. 

One thing I always worried about after 2021 was how infrequently we crushed teams in games we dominated - I'm not sure if that's an 'edge' thing or just a system thing. I distinctly remember going into the Carlton Semi in 2023 confident we were a better team, but terrified we would let them stay in the game. I'm not much of a predictor of football, but that's exactly what happened. 

And being brutally honest, I also think there are one or two mainstays in the team - considered un-droppable by supporters, football department and media alike - that aren't really ruthless by any measure. 

[gs77 4,450]

27 minutes ago, layzie said:

Speaking of someone that has lost the edge. Goes from a genuine innovator on the 80s/90s to be indistinguishable from pedestrian session guitarists.

[Skuit 10,031]

8 hours ago, gs77 said:

Speaking of someone that has lost the edge. Goes from a genuine innovator on the 80s/90s to be indistinguishable from pedestrian session guitarists.

So now we know where Essendon got their slogan from. 

[Pates 9,661]

10 hours ago, The Taciturn Demon said:

I look back now and realise I drastically underrated Hibberd. I always liked him, but never fully appreciated how important that whole never-give-up stuff was until he was gone. 

I never underrated Harmes, but I put him in a similar category - what he lacked in skills he made up for in toughness and team-oriented discipline. We lost something significant when his form dropped. 

One thing I always worried about after 2021 was how infrequently we crushed teams in games we dominated - I'm not sure if that's an 'edge' thing or just a system thing. I distinctly remember going into the Carlton Semi in 2023 confident we were a better team, but terrified we would let them stay in the game. I'm not much of a predictor of football, but that's exactly what happened. 

And being brutally honest, I also think there are one or two mainstays in the team - considered un-droppable by supporters, football department and media alike - that aren't really ruthless by any measure. 

Hibberd was one of our genuine tough as nails players that was always on hand to fly the flag. If we weren't going to have Grundy as a sub in the finals last season we should've had Hibbo. 

I'm really hoping we're able to pick up a mature recruit that isn't afraid to get into the thick of the action when the going gets tough. 

[picket fence 17,728]

23 hours ago, Pates said:

Haven't done a thread for a while but it's something that I've been feeling for a while. 2021 one of the things that we had going for us was that we were hard at the ball and high in pressure, particularly in the forward half. Since that year though I haven't felt like we've had that same physical edge to us, and adding to that I don't feel like we are ruthless enough or strike any fear into other teams. I look at our team and I feel like when things are getting tough, we get bullied.

I hate bringing it up but the loss of Gus 5min into a final this time last season was a time for our players to raise that side to another level. Instead it looked like Viney was the only player genuinely flying the flag for a teammate and since this we've almost looked gun-shy. The way our players showed up to the QB showed we don't have a mean bone in our bodies, we want to play the game as gentlemen, and only act tough to save face at times. Kozzie plays the game on the edge and unfortunately gets suspended (personally I feel this latest one is OTT in suspension) but at least he gives a bit of mongrel.

So to the point of the thread, how can we shift this mentality? How can we get an edge about us again? We've got an off-season to be able to make us a finals/premiership contender, and this is an area I feel needs improvement. I'm sick of seeing us look like the bullied kid at school.

Um yes we have lost our edge!😵‍💫

[Alex No Fancy-name 56]

I find 'The Edge' a tricky term; what are we aiming for "strength" (solid leadership) or "power" (force)? We certainly missed the strength this year, but as has been noted (and off field issues, real or rumoured aside) so many of our leaders and emerging leaders were struggling for fitness it was going to be a challenge to exert that element.

As for power, if we're talking about payback or even "making them earn it", I just want to see this out of the game. To bring up the Bradshaw and Petracca injuries, while many (the AFL included) believe there was no intent to cause significant injury, I have no doubt at all that the instruction was to "go out and make 'em earn it." If this is 'The Edge', I can't wait for it to be gone from the game.

As a counterpoint, if we're looking for what we miss from '21, for mine, it's the fun; the dash and the dare.  I appreciate there is work required to get there, but focusing on "evening up" and "doing it to them before they do it to you" has (I truly hope) a limited lifespan. 

[Pates 9,661]

On 16/09/2024 at 14:33, Alex No Fancy-name said:

I find 'The Edge' a tricky term; what are we aiming for "strength" (solid leadership) or "power" (force)? We certainly missed the strength this year, but as has been noted (and off field issues, real or rumoured aside) so many of our leaders and emerging leaders were struggling for fitness it was going to be a challenge to exert that element.

As for power, if we're talking about payback or even "making them earn it", I just want to see this out of the game. To bring up the Bradshaw and Petracca injuries, while many (the AFL included) believe there was no intent to cause significant injury, I have no doubt at all that the instruction was to "go out and make 'em earn it." If this is 'The Edge', I can't wait for it to be gone from the game.

As a counterpoint, if we're looking for what we miss from '21, for mine, it's the fun; the dash and the dare.  I appreciate there is work required to get there, but focusing on "evening up" and "doing it to them before they do it to you" has (I truly hope) a limited lifespan. 

Given that this is ultimately a physical game there will always be times where teams are just bullying the other team around, I guess the whole "make em earn it" type thing is old school but I think it can be done in fair ways. What I have been frustrated with for a while is that I feel like our players are keen to be the nice guys of the competition. Save for a few of the group (May, Koz, Viney) come to mind, we are very much go hard for the ball but leave it at that. 

You can get away with that against middle tier teams but against the top teams, and when the match is getting fiery we get bullied and we look like we're happy to take it. Regarding Maynard, I will never, ever cop that there was no intent to physically impact Brayshaw. You can argue intent to injure, I doubt there are many if any times where a player in their head thinks "think is a great opportunity to knock a player out", but he chose in that moment in a final to choose physicality over protecting his fellow player. Was I expecting one of our guys to knock him into next week? Absolutely not. Was I expected them to be physical with him and make sure he knows he will not get a single easy ball? Definitely, and there is no way that happened.

An edge doesn't mean going back to the bad old days of the Hawks knocking players out, but to me it is about standing up to an opposition and saying, "anything you give, we will give back and with interest".

[Deemania since 56 6,735]

Let's identify in younger players and recruits those who can exhibit, on a consistent basis, absolute 'mongrel' - other skills will develop when intensively coached across game plan 1, 2, 3 and 4.