4 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

It's midway though the season and we are sitting 10th by % out of the 8. We haven't bottomed out, we're still in a window... but with all factors considered - it'll be tough to perform in finals if they are indeed even made.

Going by Footywire and arbitrarily choosing the last 5 years...

                          2019       2020       2021       2022       2023

Geelong =       1st            4th          3rd         1st           12th

Hawthorn =    9th           15th        14th       13th         16th

Collingwood = 4th         8th          17th       4th          1st

Sydney =         15th        16th        6th       3rd           8th

Melbourne  =   17th       9th          1st          2nd       4th

 

We have a collective memory lapse at at times of how teams other than our own have progressed, and as such, things are never linear.

I was contemplating a longer time frame than since 2019, where those teams have been fairly consistently “thereabouts” over substantial periods.

Edited June 13, 2024Jun 13 by Tim

34 minutes ago, Tim said:

I was contemplating a longer time frame than since 2019, where those teams have been fairly consistently “thereabouts” over substantial periods.

Fair enough. 😀 Here's the last 10 years (from last year).

All clubs, including Geelong and Hawthorn have had periods of being flaccid.

Here's a little thing I put together via Reddit. (hope it's not too small).

Whilst Longmire and Scott are verry good coaches, Sydney and Geelong have clear (and now often spoken about) niche, boutique and geographical advantages that attract certain players at a 'discount' compared to other clubs. A fair, or unfair competitive advantage on the rest of the competition.

 

Edited June 13, 2024Jun 13 by Engorged Onion

1 hour ago, Engorged Onion said:

Fair enough. 😀 Here's the last 10 years (from last year).

All clubs, including Geelong and Hawthorn have had periods of being flaccid.

Here's a little thing I put together via Reddit. (hope it's not too small).

Whilst Longmire and Scott are verry good coaches, Sydney and Geelong have clear (and now often spoken about) niche, boutique and geographical advantages that attract certain players at a 'discount' compared to other clubs. A fair, or unfair competitive advantage on the rest of the competition.

 

Nicely done, but can't ignore the impact of Academy players (Sydney) and father-sons (Collingwood) amongst that list. Also, can't underestimate the arrival of even a single key player, e.g. Dangerfield at Geelong as a way of avoiding the dreaded rebuild and keeping clubs competitive.

On 11/06/2024 at 14:22, Jaded No More said:

Is our forwardline great? No.

Is it the reason we are losing? No.

Who the hell was playing in Collingwood's forwardline yesterday? Absolute nobodies, that's who. Still managed to pile on 14 goals.

 

We hit the post 4 times

2 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

We hit the post 4 times

As well as two on the fulls.

Absolutely butchered our scoring shots.

And I don't buy it was because Collingwood had all their shots from 30m directly in front. It's factually not correct. Both their rucks kicked ridiculously acute angled goals.

On 10/06/2024 at 21:11, Sir Why You Little said:

It would have been a brave move. Sadly that ship has sailed 

3 years with the same Forward problems. Today was exactly the same, when is enough…?

Agreed. To let a homegrown asset like Yze disappear was a travesty.

1 hour ago, Deemania since 56 said:

Agreed. To let a homegrown asset like Yze disappear was a travesty.

Holding a homegrown legend and hero of our club back from a senior coaching position would have been worse!

Only way I could have seen Yze staying would have been the club disclosing a succession plan which would have named up Goodwin's exit. That wasn't going to happen so close to the premiership.

The psychology is being underestimated I feel. 

Off the back of 2020 and through to mid 2022 Goodwin & Gawn (and others) managed to galvanise the group. To play for the jumper, give it everything, back eachother, respect the game and appreciate the fans. 

It stuck fat for ~18 months, then took some body blows but hung in for 12 more months. I feel now it's been irreparably damaged. 

Goody looks & sounds exhausted to me. He's taken body blow after body blow for 2 straight years and tried manfully to hold his head high but the bludgeoning has been immense. On top of that club has kicked a number of own goals that just heaped on more pressure.

A tired leader is not a good motivator

Edited June 14, 2024Jun 14 by Dee*ceiving

I dreamt last night that the Crows coach was sacked and the job offered to Goodwin as they recognised the Partnership With Burgess worked Burgess was the main reason we won the Flag he  gelled and understood our Players he got the best out of them.

We  then offer Scott  Pendelbury (his Family were supporters of Melbourne) from Collingwood not as senior coach but as assistant to Mc Qualter also change most of the other Assistants with fresh  new ideas as anything would be better than what we have now.

 

 

 

This time reminds me of 65 or so 

really brilliant and the dominant team for years. Win the flag.  Unbeaten for what 10 games in 65. Win nothing almost for rest of the year,

Flag in 21.  Best time to follow the Dee’s I can remember,   First few games on 22 unbeaten.    Stuff all since. Seriously bad decline.

i think we have lost it in the centre. Decline of Viney, Gus gone, Tracca forward, Oliver off his food. And the opposition rucks to Max.   He never really hits to our blokes.

so we lose it in the guts every time,

pity about the quarters we do not score goals.

16 minutes ago, 640MD said:

This time reminds me of 65 or so 

really brilliant and the dominant team for years. Win the flag.  Unbeaten for what 10 games in 65. Win nothing almost for rest of the year,

Flag in 21.  Best time to follow the Dee’s I can remember,   First few games on 22 unbeaten.    Stuff all since. Seriously bad decline.

i think we have lost it in the centre. Decline of Viney, Gus gone, Tracca forward, Oliver off his food. And the opposition rucks to Max.   He never really hits to our blokes.

so we lose it in the guts every time,

pity about the quarters we do not score goals.

Jackson gone as well. It all adds up

Schache and Fullarton have contributed almost zilch, massive decline in a short period of time

Back the OP’s question about change:

I can see some parallels between Joe Maddon and Simon Goodwin.

Joe Maddon was the manager (head coach) of the famous Chicago Cubs in the MLB from 2015-2019. Although the Cubs were one of the most popular sporting clubs in the world, they hadn’t won a World Series since 1908. Our drought was nothing on Chicago’s, but you get the point.

Anyway, in 2016 the Cubs finally won the World Series beating the Cleveland Indians and Maddon was the king of Chicago, make no mistake. He was the man responsible for the Cubs finally tasting success and they were no longer the butt of all jokes from non Cubs fans. Sound familiar about our coach in 2021?

In 2017 and 2018 the Cubs had very good regular seasons but bowed out in the second round and first round of the playoffs respectively in very disappointing fashion.

In 2019 the Cubs had a good start to the season, but progressively got worse as the season unfolded. Despite their recent World Series win and subsequent strong regular seasons, the Cubs shockingly missed the playoffs in 2019. The club and Maddon mutually (although Maddon later claimed he was sacked) parted ways as it was understood that Maddon had lost the players and couldn’t take the group any further.

Not agitating for change, but just an interesting parallel between the 3 years following the Chicago Cubs drought breaking World Series win and the 3 years following Melbourne’s flag.

15 hours ago, Ferghus31 said:

I dreamt last night that the Crows coach was sacked and the job offered to Goodwin as they recognised the Partnership With Burgess worked Burgess was the main reason we won the Flag he  gelled and understood our Players he got the best out of them.

We  then offer Scott  Pendelbury (his Family were supporters of Melbourne) from Collingwood not as senior coach but as assistant to Mc Qualter also change most of the other Assistants with fresh  new ideas as anything would be better than what we have now.

 

 

 

Oh great, when does it come to fruition.?

The year 2025 has to see changes in assistants at least.

On 12/06/2024 at 18:30, bing181 said:

Viney struggling (age?), Oliver with no pre-season, Petracca having to play forward/now injured, Brayshaw out ... that's pretty well our entire mid-field.

Just what were people expecting?

Smith out.

Bbb cooked.

Spargo out all year .

Tmac no longer admits he can play fwd.

Schache not sure why's he's on our list 

Fullerton ditto.

McAdam rightly dropped.

Petty not a forward.

Milkshake still recovering.

Three years to fix a forward line with no success.

 

One thing I’m noticing at the moment is the emergence of young and fast midfielders. Sydney has Gulden and Warner. Port has Butters, Rozee and JHF. Carlton have Walsh. Hawks have a couple coming though too.

We don’t have anyone emerging. Maybe that can be Tholstrup for us. The golden age of the midfield bull is over and we’ve been late to the party to notice.

22 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

One thing I’m noticing at the moment is the emergence of young and fast midfielders. Sydney has Gulden and Warner. Port has Butters, Rozee and JHF. Carlton have Walsh. Hawks have a couple coming though too.

We don’t have anyone emerging. Maybe that can be Tholstrup for us. The golden age of the midfield bull is over and we’ve been late to the party to notice.

100%

game has gone from 'contest and defence' to 'speed and skill'

1 minute ago, whatwhat say what said:

100%

game has gone from 'contest and defence' to 'speed and skill'

Which is why we drafted Windsor, and traded up to get him.

3 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Which is why we drafted Windsor, and traded up to get him.

agreed

i'm really curious to see if he can add that inside / outside game to his arsenal, as it is one of the things that sets the likes of dawson and warner apart

2 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

agreed

i'm really curious to see if he can add that inside / outside game to his arsenal, as it is one of the things that sets the likes of dawson and warner apart

Windsor will be good inside and outside.  He maybe still young but he  isn’t the best field kick - too many clangers so far this season. 
 

10 minutes ago, Gawndy the Great said:

Windsor will be good inside and outside.  He maybe still young but he  isn’t the best field kick - too many clangers so far this season. 
 

going okay at 67% disposal efficiency; his clangers and turnovers hurt him - 2.4 and 3.1 a game from only 14.2 possessions per game

you can't teach speed and skill

what i like is that he is capable of punching the kick when moving at top speed - some of his field kicking this year has been elite

Edited June 15, 2024Jun 15 by whatwhat say what

2 hours ago, At the break of Gawn said:

One thing I’m noticing at the moment is the emergence of young and fast midfielders. Sydney has Gulden and Warner. Port has Butters, Rozee and JHF. Carlton have Walsh. Hawks have a couple coming though too.

We don’t have anyone emerging. Maybe that can be Tholstrup for us. The golden age of the midfield bull is over and we’ve been late to the party to notice.

There's still a case for at least one mid field bull.

Cripps - No Cripps no Blues success imho.  Walsh is good on the outside but he feeds & relies off Cripps hard work in and under quite a bit.

Viney - before being injured this year).  With his decline (and or tagged out of influencing matches) goes our season.

Clarry - before his fall from grace... as per Vines

Danger - Cat's decline since his injury no coincidence

Libba - not so much a bull but he does the same thing, first use extraction and he is the best in the comp at that this season.  The best clearance average in the AFL, daylight the rest.  No coincidence they are rising again post his return.

Rowell

Green

Miller

I get what you're saying and yes we are devoid of the more outside bias types you are referring to.

Especially now that Tracc is done for the year, we simply have to get Rivers into the middle to play some serious minutes and see how he goes.

If we don't i fear we are in for more horror in the back half.

Also important we start blooding the likes of Kolt & Sestan in place of Billings & Laurie.

Will they have some shockers as well?  Absolutely.

But their upside potential is a mile ahead of the former two if we persist with them and don't [censored] the bed and send them straight back to Casey after their first few weeks as we tend to do far too often with our rookies.  Talk about a confidence killer.

Edited June 15, 2024Jun 15 by Demon Dynasty

On 13/06/2024 at 19:17, Binmans PA said:

 

But I assume your mind is made up.

Oh, the irony!

You need a mix of inside bull and speed in the middle or you need to get speed on the ball with your movement. 
 

Windsor, Rivers, Kozzie have it and we have shown interest in Cody Angove so no doubt the list is moving towards having more leg speed 

1 minute ago, Pennant St Dee said:

You need a mix of inside bull and speed in the middle or you need to get speed on the ball with your movement. 
 

Windsor, Rivers, Kozzie have it and we have shown interest in Cody Angove so no doubt the list is moving towards having more leg speed 

They need skilled guidance and mentoring

We have none...  just what is.

On 10/06/2024 at 18:39, spirit of norm smith said:

Agree. Tim Lamb 🪓 Greg Stafford 🪓 

Send Pert with them