On 18/09/2023 at 22:42, Wells 11 said:

Garry loves the dees but he’s also always the first one to put the boot in. Contrast that with  Cornes or Buckley or Damo . He speaks from his grumpy self but it would be good if he could be a little protective as well in the times when it’s needed. As in now. 

I’m sorry but why, we deserve every bit of heat that is coming our way. We blew it twice within the space of 8 days and have lost 4 finals at the MCG in 2 years. 

  On 18/09/2023 at 22:40, beelzebub said:

Lamentably....yes..   All the locusts swarm. Tbh... not without some merit.

We are our own worst enemy. We often dont simply get beaten.. WE lose. Emphasis on the WE.  I.e.. It was up to us...and we've stuffed up...and not just once.  There's a perceivable trend.

So the answer to all that kicking...is to get up and do something about it. I can only suggest something somewhat different....lest we end up right back on the floor..

The word criticism by definition comes from critique. We of course deserve to be critiqued.  Now it may well be some have agendas and/or narratives to push but the equally simple ( as such ) solution so as to avoid the kicking. Dont lose the games you've won. 

It might just help.....

You're right, a lot of the time the game feels setup for us to win, in some cases like Friday it even feels like shooting fish in a barrel. 

It's not pleasant and we know how hard the boys have worked so it hurts to see them kicked but it was going to come. 

Is there one Dees supporter that wouldn’t be ecstatic, if the same happened to Maynard 3 minutes into the PF?

It has affected all Dees fans, not just an Official.

I totally get this was a wasted year but in the same vein, if we were as terrible as the pundits say then we overachieved making a Semi.

We all know that the biggest determining factor in winning a flag is a healthy list. Nobody can argue we had this at almost any stage in the season.

We got slaughtered by injuries to key players during the year and that above everything I believe cost us the flag.

We can turn it around and I hope we are aggressive during trade week and the draft. 

  On 18/09/2023 at 22:52, Dee Viney Intervention said:

I’m sorry but why, we deserve every bit of heat that is coming our way. We blew it twice within the space of 8 days and have lost 4 finals at the MCG in 2 years. 

Port went out in FAR worse fashion than we did after being super disappointing last year....have you heard Kane blasting them? Im not saying that we didnt disappoint or blow it...Im just saying theres a media pile on at the dees that feels reminiscint of yeasteryear, 

  On 18/09/2023 at 22:52, Lucifers Hero said:

Yes, I mentioned it would have affected the QF.

The so called 'semior club official' belief was in relation to the SF vs Carlton.

Ok, so not having Gus affected the SF. We lost by 2 points. Gus in JJ out, would we have won? JJ had 2 possessions in the 2nd half.

To me it’s an obvious opinion to hold by someone and Ralphy is blowing it up as though the club is using it as the sole excuse for our performance. I am sure that is not the case. Maybe a contributing factor, but not the sole reason we lost both games.

 

  On 18/09/2023 at 22:53, layzie said:

You're right, a lot of the time the game feels setup for us to win, in some cases like Friday it even feels like shooting fish in a barrel. 

It's not pleasant and we know how hard the boys have worked so it hurts to see them kicked but it was going to come. 

Even worse...of a fashion. We had the game effectively won.  Not sure tbh how...as some seemed worse for wear and just hanging on but in the context of that game and with little time left we should have retained the outcome.  Our much vaulted End of Game Shut-down was nowhere to be seen.   Where was the discipline...where were all the learnings. 

Why weren't 2 extra behind the ball to completely shut it down..where were the runners ?? 

Like deer in the headlights.. we got whacked.

That's where the vitriol of the media stems from. 

Ok, But let's keep the Sooking going at least until he end of the season and not show up to our table at the Brownlow. [censored] the AFL for their decision on Maynard. 

Edited September 18, 20231 yr by John Demonic

I tried to take my own look at the publicly available efficiency and turnover stats. Very incomplete data particularly because 'disposal efficiency' counts the long bomb to a contest (I think anything over 40m?) as an effective disposal. That's why all of the lowest-rated players are forwards.

So, after acknowledging the great Oscar McInernery as Mr 50%, I turned over to turnovers.

Sure enough, there's Viney in 2nd, Oliver in 4th and Petracca at 15th. And Gulden in 3rd, and Taranto, Worpel, Rozee, Green, Serong, Parish, Acres, Bontempelli, Warner, Rich, Sheezel and Anderson.

Certain players have a job to do and their success is measured in the difference between 40% and 60%, not 60% to 80%.

That said... certain other players also have jobs to do and one of those is to make sure that Viney has better options than having to try to do too much with his limited kick.

I think this season Hunter and Langdon have both been 'AFL standard' but only to an adequate level, not the champion level that our style needs in order to get good clean movement in the counter-attacks we rely on. Far too often what should be a swift run and clear-eyed kick along the wing becomes a tussle close to the boundary.

It's the perfect recipe for a turnover;

Inside mid... runs a long way to reach a contest... gets the ball under pressure... disposes in a hurry... close to the boundary... with the opposition set up in place... and a shortage of key forwards...

[X]

 

  On 18/09/2023 at 22:59, Wells 11 said:

Port went out in FAR worse fashion than we did after being super disappointing last year....have you heard Kane blasting them? Im not saying that we didnt disappoint or blow it...Im just saying theres a media pile on at the dees that feels reminiscint of yeasteryear, 

Couldn’t care less about Port tbh, but at least they used their sub and weren’t ahead on the weekend with about a minute to go in the game.We have gone from premiers to being knocked out in straight sets 2 years in a row.we blew it on so many levels and whatever comes our way from the media is deserved…… we just need to grin and bear it.

Edited September 18, 20231 yr by Dee Viney Intervention

We choked and fell to bits 2 weeks in a row, 2 years in a row. This will follow us until we win a big final now. And we have no one to blame but ourselves. 

  On 18/09/2023 at 21:20, Kent said:

Quote"

In an alarming reveal, statistics show the Demons have three of the worst rated kicks in the AFL – with captain Max Gawn officially ranked the worst of the competition.

Jack Viney was named third worst while Clayton Oliver was seventh in the stat for players that have more than 200 kicks to their name this season.

“They’ve got three of the seven worst kicks in the comp!” Jonathan Brown said.

“Your best players are your worst kicks in the team!

“To have three of the top worst seven … explains a bit,” Buckley added.

Tell us something we don't know for once guys. Your meant to be experts. Not just telling us the bleeding obvious.

Poor jacks final poor kick gave blues their final opportunity. Good kick and we win.

Still I love him and he carried that midfield 

  On 18/09/2023 at 21:50, picket fence said:

Truth Hurts, but what will change in 2024? Goodwin is so damn stubborn in his beliefs!

You're not really one for introspection are you Picket?

Edited September 19, 20231 yr by dworship

  On 18/09/2023 at 22:59, Wells 11 said:

Port went out in FAR worse fashion than we did after being super disappointing last year....have you heard Kane blasting them? Im not saying that we didnt disappoint or blow it...Im just saying theres a media pile on at the dees that feels reminiscint of yeasteryear, 

For sure. Where's the pile on for the cats missing finals. Hinkleys failure. Again. Bevos performance and list management. 

The Dee's are just popular targets by lazy media or blind eye experts. Yes that's you Cornes.

Who are these senior figures???

Ralph is a massive FLOP. Fanning these stupid non-stories, and shame on Garry who always seems happy to sink the boot in. 

  On 18/09/2023 at 22:59, Wells 11 said:

Port went out in FAR worse fashion than we did after being super disappointing last year....have you heard Kane blasting them? Im not saying that we didnt disappoint or blow it...Im just saying theres a media pile on at the dees that feels reminiscint of yeasteryear, 

The difference between us and Port is our game plan put us in a position to win in both finals and it stacks up in high intesity games.

  On 19/09/2023 at 00:15, Demon17 said:

For sure. Where's the pile on for the cats missing finals. Hinkleys failure. Again. Bevos performance and list management. 

The Dee's are just popular targets by lazy media or blind eye experts. Yes that's you Cornes.

Have read plenty of condemnation for both Port and WB. The Cats get off the hook because they’re both a senior list, and have given the league a dynasty. 

The Demons were being touted by many in the press as flag favourites for a good chunk of the season, but our finals collapse has made the pundits who backed us look weak in their analysis. Cue their payback. 

  On 19/09/2023 at 00:12, Demon17 said:

Tell us something we don't know for once guys. Your meant to be experts. Not just telling us the bleeding obvious.

Poor jacks final poor kick gave blues their final opportunity. Good kick and we win.

Still I love him and he carried that midfield 

Problem is people here cannot see that or are willing to admit it and just defend blindly for the sake of it.

  On 18/09/2023 at 22:24, Jaded No More said:

And this is why I just avoid football media. 

The wrist slashing and insane hyperbole doesn't help.

Everything these so called experts are saying, our club is internally very well aware of. 

The pile on does nothing but create a narrative that we are a soft club. Honestly the out and out hatred of our club in the media is so obvious. They all could not wait to see us fail so they can stick the boot in, including ex Melbourne captain Lyon.

What he is saying might be partially true, but as always these commentators pick the flaws and offer absolutely no solutions. I trust the club is going to work hard to rectify the problems. 

I can tolerate Gary Lyon’s criticism, but brown and Buckley, particularly Buckley can shove it. 
and that is why I’m avoiding the media.

  On 19/09/2023 at 00:51, KLV said:

I can tolerate Gary Lyon’s criticism, but brown and Buckley, particularly Buckley can shove it. 
and that is why I’m avoiding the media.

Cancelled Kayo and have tuned out. (except for today)  .

Will look forward to off season changes and Petty with a full 2024 then we can go again.

But the media sucks IMO dominated by shallow thinking and insights generally and this feeling was cemented in with the Maynard and hands-off-the-Pies approach by all and sundry. Of course Martin gets downgraded to a week.....etc.

Over and Out till last week of March.

 

  On 19/09/2023 at 00:13, dworship said:

You're not really one for introspection are you Picket?

Nope!

Putting aside the reasons for our poor exit from Finals (we know what they are), the AFL media landscape, in my opinion, is at an all-time low. The media view of the game is often so far away from reality and incisive opinion, that it's no wonder coaches like Goody, Chris Scott etc give it such short shrift. The histrionics around the Maynard incident, blown up by an actively encouraged tabloid media is what passes for football journalism today. Of course, the AFL are delighted, because it means more exposure and coverage for them. Meanwhile, 3rd rate hacks can spew whatever opinion they like - it doesn't matter how wrong they are, because the attention will have shifted in a day or two.

I recently went to an event, where the Age's Jake Niall was the guest speaker. It was pretty interesting, but the thing he said that stood out for me was that the consumer decides what they write. By this, he meant that the algorithms generated from online reading/browsing now determine what type of article will be written. So - even though a Martin Flanagan-type piece may have way more craft, truth and research behind it, it will be rejected in favour of a Tom Morris/Tom Browne style gossip/shock horror article.

I'm super glad for the @Demonland podcast - it's the only footy media I listen to now: everything else I switch off - even when I watch games on TV, I put it on Mute. It's actually incredibly relaxing, instead of having to listen to half cocked opinions by loudmouth meatheads, who wouldn't have a clue.

In the end, trust what your own eyes are telling you: with regards to the MFC - you (the supporter) know better than most.

Edited September 19, 20231 yr by 3183 Dee

  On 19/09/2023 at 01:37, 3183 Dee said:

Putting aside the reasons for our poor exit from Finals (we know what they are), the AFL media landscape, in my opinion, is at an all-time low. The media view of the game is often so far away from reality and incisive opinion, that it's no wonder coaches like Goody, Chris Scott etc give it such short shrift. The histrionics around the Maynard incident, blown up by an actively encouraged tabloid media is what passes for football journalism today. Of course, the AFL are delighted, because it means more exposure and coverage for them. Meanwhile, 3rd rate hacks can spew whatever opinion they like - it doesn't matter how wrong they are, because the attention will have shifted in a day or two.

I recently went to an event, where the Age's Jake Niall was the guest speaker. It was pretty interesting, but the thing he said that stood out for me was that the consumer decides what they write. By this, he meant that the algorithms generated from online reading/browsing now determine what type of article will be written. So - even though a Martin Flanagan-type piece may have way more craft, truth and research behind it, it will be rejected in favour of a Tom Morris/Tom Browne style gossip/shock horror article.

I'm super glad for the @Demonland podcast - it's the only footy media I listen to now: everything else I switch off - even when I watch games on TV, I put it on Mute. It's actually incredibly relaxing, instead of having to listen to half cocked opinions by loudmouth meatheads, who wouldn't have a clue.

In the end, trust what your own eyes are telling you: with regards to the MFC - you (the supporter) know better than most.

Good journalism should lead the way. It shouldn't be dictated to. It shouldn't look like a cheap one size fits all suit.

That they are reactive shows they should all give away the quill.

  On 19/09/2023 at 00:51, KLV said:

I can tolerate Gary Lyon’s criticism, but brown and Buckley, particularly Buckley can shove it. 
and that is why I’m avoiding the media.

Me too stopped listening to SEN and telly

When I started following football, there were 12 field umpires required each round.  Today, there are 72.  I would think the amount of 'accredited' AFL journalists have multiplied by much more. As a result, what we now have in both facets of our game, as in the modern world, is quantity over quality.

Sadly, this won't change.

In amongst the rubbish that we see and read are glimpses of truth and logic. If we deny everything, we are just as ignorant as the repeat offenders we detest.

We are a bloody good football team, but should be a great one. This is still very possible with the right changes and planning. It doesn't need an overhaul. 

The club has a body of evidence over the past 2 years to know, or better understand, what they are.  We have good people at the top and if they can sort the wheat from the chaff, which I think they can, we will again see a cup raised.