PREGAME: Rd 19 vs Adelaide

[layzie 32,758]

Crows were disappointing. 

[old55 22,760]

3 hours ago, rpfc said:

Of ‘forward craft’ is what he is learning - then he has no hope of replicating what BBB gives us.

If Gawn wants to make this work, great. But he is the one who has to spend more time forward and be better leading up at the footy, and leading in the right spots.

As a forward myself, a former forward coach - I don’t think there is a enough placed on having actual forwards who know what they are doing down there. Hopefully this changes that

 

22 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Agree with this.

While a fan of BBB, his knee injury has cruelled his agility, which was never his main attribute and imo he is very near the end.

Grundy is a bigger bodied, more mobile player who can do what BBB does, maybe not as accurately kicking for goal, but can save Max from burnout, JVR from ruck injury and allow him to concentrate on his key forward role and at worst, provide the contest and bring the ball to ground.

Fritta will return and bring his opportunistic goal scoring, but Tom Mac may not return.

Therefore it’s probably Grundy or BBB for the big key forward role and probably/possibly at this stage, Grundy can offer more.

I can understand what the FD is thinking here.

I think we're not in an ideal situation, we need Brodie for a proper chop out for Max so he can deliver excellence, but it's true that as @rpfc says, forward craft is an art and Brodie (or Max) is not going to learn what BBB knows about it in 3 weeks.

The fact that BBB is past his prime and TMac is injured, closes the difference between them and Brodie forward.

It's a compromise either way, but I think we're better with a firing Maxy at the pointy end. Having Brodie will also help JVR because he won't have to ruck and therefore can be fresher and add more forward.

Edited July 15, 2023 by old55

[Fritta and Turner 4,181]

12 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

Spargo is a liability in the air due to size and doesn’t offer enough in other areas IMO. 

I think Pig is too good to leave out but our small defenders are all very good. 

Spargo - Except when he plays on Hipwood.  Did you see spargs spoil eric in a marking contest? Eric did not like it.

Small defenders - we need Hibberd in for his strength, especially when we play a team with strong mid sized forwards.

[rpfc 28,045]

12 minutes ago, old55 said:

 

I think we're not in an ideal situation, we need Brodie for a proper chop out for Max so he can deliver excellence, but it's true that as @rpfc says, forward craft is an art and Brodie (or Max) is not going to learn what BBB knows about it in 3 weeks.

The fact that BBB is past his prime and TMac is injured, closes the difference between them and Brodie forward.

It's a compromise either way, but I think we're better with a firing Maxy at the pointy end. Having Brodie will also help JVR because he won't have to ruck and therefore can be fresher and add more forward.

It’s a good point about BBB’s body just bringing his capabilities down in the pack there. I guess I am hoping for our best possible forward line and that is with a healthier Brown getting to better spots than I can see JVR or BG getting to.

As an aside, TMac said on 3AW that his timetable is the last two rounds of the AFL season.

[rpfc 28,045]

Interesting tidbit from TMac on 3AW was the group have been going through vision of their entries into the forward line so amongst the myriad of issues we have been dealing with we can confirm that connection forward was one of them.

[Boots and all 999]

6 minutes ago, rpfc said:

It’s a good point about BBB’s body just bringing his capabilities down in the pack there. I guess I am hoping for our best possible forward line and that is with a healthier Brown getting to better spots than I can see JVR or BG getting to.

As an aside, TMac said on 3AW that his timetable is the last two rounds of the AFL season.

Noting that BBB actually leapt for a mark on Friday night. A leap that raised eyebrows in my household and were immediately followed by some fairly broad smiles. Mark not taken, but meh, good signs.

[rpfc 28,045]

1 minute ago, Boots and all said:

Noting that BBB actually leapt for a mark on Friday night. A leap that raised eyebrows in my household and were immediately followed by some fairly broad smiles. Mark not taken, but meh, good signs.

That first ten minutes was so heartening. If he can keep getting back up each week - he doesn’t come out of the side IMV.

[Boots and all 999]

1 minute ago, rpfc said:

That first ten minutes was so heartening. If he can keep getting back up each week - he doesn’t come out of the side IMV.

I suppose that's the thing isn't it. The game is played over four quarters and he does tend to fade out of games a bit. Those kind of attempts later in games are rare.

[old dee 23,486]

3 minutes ago, rpfc said:

That first ten minutes was so heartening. If he can keep getting back up each week - he doesn’t come out of the side IMV.

As well rpfc who replaces him? 

[beelzebub 23,195]

36 minutes ago, old55 said:

 

I think we're not in an ideal situation, we need Brodie for a proper chop out for Max so he can deliver excellence, but it's true that as @rpfc says, forward craft is an art and Brodie (or Max) is not going to learn what BBB knows about it in 3 weeks.

The fact that BBB is past his prime and TMac is injured, closes the difference between them and Brodie forward.

It's a compromise either way, but I think we're better with a firing Maxy at the pointy end. Having Brodie will also help JVR because he won't have to ruck and therefore can be fresher and add more forward.

No... not in 3 weeks... no... but he'll get better. He strikes me as someone with great aptitude and motivation to indeed learn what he can. 

He's still a backup for Max..... current and going forward.   The Gawndy plan A hasn't manifestly succeeded in its current guise, perhaps the revised plan B will. 

Rucking and Forward craft are both about position and space....and timing.   I think he'll come on quicker than many suspect.

Edited July 15, 2023 by beelzebub

[dazzledavey36 52,720]

58 minutes ago, Lil_red_fire_engine said:

Small Herald sun write up on Grundy in the VFL scratch match also states “Chandler starred”. He was quality the prior week at VFL as well and I think he offers a more rounded role in our forward set up than Spargo. 

I agree.

I'd swap Spargo for Chandler in a heart beat.

[Boots and all 999]

2 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

No... not in 3 weeks... no... but he'll get better. He strikes me as someone with great aptitude and motivation to indeed learn what he can. 

He's still a backup for Max..... current and going forward.   The Gawndy plan A hasn't manifestly succeeded in its current guise, perhaps the revised plan B will. 

Rucking and Forward craft are both about position and space.   I think he'll come on quicker than many suspect.

I reckon Brodie, if playing forward,  may be more suited to a high CHF position where he can roam a bit more, take high half forward throw-ins and bounces etc.  

[Kent 2,858]

Dees hopefully get on a roll. 6 straight is more than possible giving us 68 points

Port have the following-  CW  Home

                                          Adelaide  Home

                                          Geelong   Kardinia

                                           GWS   Home

                                           Freo    Away

                                           Richmond  Home

 

Could easily lose 3 or 4 of those So is it possible for the Dees to finish second

 

 

[beelzebub 23,195]

26 minutes ago, Boots and all said:

I reckon Brodie, if playing forward,  may be more suited to a high CHF position where he can roam a bit more, take high half forward throw-ins and bounces etc.  

Yep... playing the role Tmac does/did

[spirit of norm smith 15,077]

@joeboy v saints. Spargo - didn’t justify selection

@joeboy v Lions  Spargo - a nothing game    
@Fat Tony Spargo is a liability in the air due to size and doesn’t offer enough in other areas IMO.

@Maldonboy38 Spargo - his output has been limited, error-riddled and lacks  impact.

@dazzledavey36 Spargo for me, he has to go. Has been a liability for the past 2 weeks.

@At the break of GawnIf it wasn’t for Spargo’s poor game, I’d almost suggest Chandler in for AnB. 
 

Hi all. The above represents most peoples view.  I like Charlie.  I have met him a few times.  My view is that he’s not delivering and we cannot have passengers.  It’s part of being ruthless. Like the Grundy decision.  I’d rather roll the dice over the next fortnight and bring AMW in, or debut Howes or bring Chandler back in. I watched the game again yesterday afternoon and our lack of inside 50s tackles was again disappointing.  Just an opinion.  

[picket fence 16,637]

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

Agree with this.

While a fan of BBB, his knee injury has cruelled his agility, which was never his main attribute and imo he is very near the end.

Grundy is a bigger bodied, more mobile player who can do what BBB does, maybe not as accurately kicking for goal, but can save Max from burnout, JVR from ruck injury and allow him to concentrate on his key forward role and at worst, provide the contest and bring the ball to ground.

Fritta will return and bring his opportunistic goal scoring, but Tom Mac may not return.

Therefore it’s probably Grundy or BBB for the big key forward role and probably/possibly at this stage, Grundy can offer more.

I can understand what the FD is thinking here.

I dont agree, we need BBB for structure, plus he takes the number 1 Defender, plus 2 or more goals is icing on the cake. He should have had 3 last week vs Aints. JVR Is nowhere near ready and dont forget you have an in form Shache to consider not to mention the forgotten man T.MAC. Re Grundy if he cant make it forward then he will be consigned to Max backup only. FWIW I think he will be elsewhere next year

Edited July 16, 2023 by picket fence

[picket fence 16,637]

18 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

@joeboy v saints. Spargo - didn’t justify selection

@joeboy v Lions  Spargo - a nothing game    
@Fat Tony Spargo is a liability in the air due to size and doesn’t offer enough in other areas IMO.

@Maldonboy38 Spargo - his output has been limited, error-riddled and lacks  impact.

@dazzledavey36 Spargo for me, he has to go. Has been a liability for the past 2 weeks.

@At the break of GawnIf it wasn’t for Spargo’s poor game, I’d almost suggest Chandler in for AnB. 
 

Hi all. The above represents most peoples view.  I like Charlie.  I have met him a few times.  My view is that he’s not delivering and we cannot have passengers.  It’s part of being ruthless. Like the Grundy decision.  I’d rather roll the dice over the next fortnight and bring AMW in, or debut Howes or bring Chandler back in. I watched the game again yesterday afternoon and our lack of inside 50s tackles was again disappointing.  Just an opinion.  

 

Whooa "I SEEN DA LIGHT"

[Macca 16,603]

15 minutes ago, picket fence said:

I dont agree, we need BBB for structure, plus he takes the number 1 Defender, plus 2 or more goals is icing on the cake. He should have had 3 last week vs Aints. JVR Is nowhere near ready and dont forget you have an in form Shache to consider not to mention the forgotten man T.MAC. Re Grundy if he cant make it forward then he will be consigned to Max backup only. FWIW I think he will be elsewhere next year

Brown & JVR stay for now but neither player is assured of a spot over the next 2 months

Grundy has a chance to come in sooner or later as he might be our best bet at CHF or HCHF

T-Mac is also a chance if he can get his body right and somehow get match fit.  Running out of time though.  Schache is pure back up by the looks of it

So it's 2 out of Brown, JVR & Grundy.  But because he can ruck very well I reckon eventually it will be Grundy with Brown or JVR ... probably Brown but he is not moving as freely as needed

I can't see Grundy playing at Casey for the remainder of the season but he might have to play a couple/few there for now

JVR could play out at HCHF for the next couple just to see if he can play the role ... against the Crows & Tigers at least, it's worth a try.  Remembering that we played him a bit further afield against the Blues where he picked up 16 possessions with 7 marks

To me he looked at home out at CHF in that game

 

[Radar Detector 1,347]

On 7/15/2023 at 7:29 AM, rpfc said:

Spargo is a very smart player but jeez he can frustrate when he is screaming for the ball and ignores hands so he can then try to bite off a kick or a shot that he literally is incapable of kicking.

He needs to tighten up his decision making around his limitations.

I would bring in Chandler.

I agree with this. I also think that he sometimes slows the play down by not taking the first option which may not impact the effectiveness of his next kick but does make our forward entries more congested.

[Adam The God 29,305]

9 hours ago, old55 said:

Yes great in theory, but the big problem is that Max himself has declared that the Gawndy project has to work. He said exactly that in his post match with Abbie Holmes.  He was a key driver of Brodie's acquisition.

Max can't shoulder primary ruck duties week in - week out any more. The reason he was able to dominate against Brisbane is because Brodie has been giving him relief over the season.

There's 9 or 10 more games to go, Max needs Brodie to play.  I think the FD probably think that the Max, BBB and Brodie combination too easily exposed at ground level defensively, especially with Melky in Fritsch's role and Kossie playing higher, which he did effectively against Brisbane.

The probable preferred solution is Brodie for BBB while retaining JVR. Brodie needs to be able to provide what BBB currently does in the air, he'll be better than BBB at ground level.

Chandler needs to play forward of ball as a pressure forward IMO. If Kozzy is playing higher, which I think is potentially less likely in a final, we need Chandler's pressure. Probably at the expense of Spargo.

I think our forwardline mix against Brisbane was off. Great offensively, but too vulnerable on counter, hence the 4 of 5 goals from defensive half chains in the 3rd quarter for the Lions.

Edited July 16, 2023 by A F

[P-man 13,366]

Yeah okay you lot have swung me. I like what Spargs brings to the table when in form, but at this point in time Chandler has more to offer in offence and defence.

Edited July 16, 2023 by P-man

[Redleg 40,016]

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

I dont agree, we need BBB for structure, plus he takes the number 1 Defender, plus 2 or more goals is icing on the cake. He should have had 3 last week vs Aints. JVR Is nowhere near ready and dont forget you have an in form Shache to consider not to mention the forgotten man T.MAC. Re Grundy if he cant make it forward then he will be consigned to Max backup only. FWIW I think he will be elsewhere next year

I don’t see Grundy at another club next year.

At this stage if Max went down, who replaces him, competently?

I am convinced the Max who played on Friday was a far fresher Max than the same time last year. If nothing else Grundy is  the major reason for that. He rucked alone when Max was injured, earlier in the season.

Schache consistently gets goals at VFL level, but disappoints at AFL level and if Goody saw the pulling out of marking contests in the VFL, in several games I have seen, his cards would be marked, “only pick as last resort “.

Edited July 16, 2023 by Redleg

[Diamond_Jim 12,351]

12 hours ago, At the break of Gawn said:

I know his name gets mentioned every week and people point out his pressure and tackling, but AnB’s turnovers are getting worse (had a team high 7). If it wasn’t for Spargo’s poor game, I’d almost suggest Chandler in for AnB. 

Watched ANB carefully on the replay.

He struck me as one of the few players that took risks with his kicks. Sure some were to one on ones where the other side prevailed and there were a couple of clangers but if those risks aren't taken we go nowhere.

It's not as though we are awash with skilled pin point distributors a la Collingwood

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,202]

2 hours ago, Kent said:

Dees hopefully get on a roll. 6 straight is more than possible giving us 68 points

Port have the following-  CW  Home

                                          Adelaide  Home

                                          Geelong   Kardinia

                                           GWS   Home

                                           Freo    Away

                                           Richmond  Home

 

Could easily lose 3 or 4 of those So is it possible for the Dees to finish second

 

 

Possible but unlikely. The losses to GWS and Freo were unforgivable.

[YearOfTheDees 3,263]

I don't like our run home. If we are not switched I can one or more of these sides causing an upset. That said we should win all six.