PREGAME: Rd 17 vs St. Kilda

[SPC 2,879]

3 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

I really love what Hunter has brought to the team and he’s definitely been giving us a lot more than Langdon has. But of his 30 touches this weekend, I reckon 28 were kicks that went nowhere. He is not damaging like he was earlier in the year. 

The problem for our Wingers is that teams know we 1) won’t use the corridor and 2) don’t have the skills to attack the corridor if we do choose to use it. Teams setup down the line and Langers and Hunter have little room to work in. 
We will only improve if we back out defenders to win one on ones and stop protecting the turnover. Use the corridor and be attacking. Might leak some goals, but I think the opportunity to play exciting footy is what the team need to spark them. 
Goody footy is becoming like Ross Lyon, Longmire boring, safe, defensive carp.. 

[Soidee 1,496]

Goodwins Coaching is sub par ATM, coupled with selection stubbornness will be another wasted year with talent getting older.  Goodwin has got our attacking game awfully wrong.  The club is going backwards... Death by a thousand cuts. 

[DeeMee 740]

What I think will happen:

JvR in - Fritsch out for season by the sounds of it.

Woey in - love him but Harmes too many mistakes

What I would like to see:

Smith to permanent sub, flexible to play different positions - Melksham out.

Then either:

Petty forward to actually really see if the experiment thing will work and Tommo in.

OR

Give Schache a run of games with JvR, BBB as forward talls.

[praha 10,314]

St Kilda is rubbish. If we lose to this mob then the season is done. My concern is we've played in heavy conditions in Alice. Granted, Saints come back from a dry trip West. But on Marvel, I can just see them going on a roll and banging on consecutive goals when the game's up for grabs.

Zero confidence in performance atm and we're coming up against the exact type of team that can exploit team's that struggle offensively. Very concerned, mostly because we are consistently losing these close games, we we haven't played top class, top 4 exciting football since probably the first half vs Hawthorn in round 9. Even against Collingwood, we should have pummelled them and we barely got over them when they were limping to the final siren. The Carlton game was average, both games were ultimately won on the defensive end and we were slighly better f50 efficiency. 

If we get into a defensive tussle with the Saints, they have the X Factors to quickly kick goals at Marvel. Unless we can get the jump on them and really kick-start a lead of 3-4 goals by halftime, then you can absolutely bookmark a loss.

[dice 566]

Absolutely nothing to worry about Praha. Hill, Battle, Ross will all be missing. And they looked pretty sh*t in Perth

[DeeSpencer 23,313]

4 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

I really love what Hunter has brought to the team and he’s definitely been giving us a lot more than Langdon has. But of his 30 touches this weekend, I reckon 28 were kicks that went nowhere. He is not damaging like he was earlier in the year. 

And by earlier in the year you mean the preseason and maybe the Sydney game. It’s amazing how well he’s fit in to our system of moving the ball as slowly as possible and as boundary as possible.

We should play him on the right wing and have him swing corridor side to see if that can produce anything of value from his disposals.

[Roost it far 6,239]

Just watched Lyon’s analysis on the couch. Our forward connection was there it was just missed or ignored. Such an annoying loss

[praha 10,314]

16 minutes ago, dice said:

Absolutely nothing to worry about Praha. Hill, Battle, Ross will all be missing. And they looked pretty sh*t in Perth

You're probably right.

3 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

Just watched Lyon’s analysis on the couch. Our forward connection was there it was just missed or ignored. Such an annoying loss

So....it wasn't there? lol

[SFebes 4,694]

What annoys me when we go forward is everyone just stands there like dummies and doesn't offer anything, its very frustrating to watch as you even see good leads in lower level footy. So many times on the weekend the footage showed players standing still. By the time the kicker bombs it long into 50 our forward line is flooded. This seems to have been going on years now which makes you wonder....

[Roost it far 6,239]

7 minutes ago, praha said:

You're probably right.

So....it wasn't there? lol

Correct it want there. The point was made though that in several occasions we just chose a poor option. So at least the options are there

[Binmans PA 26,301]

Won't happen, but here's what I'd go with:

FB: McVee Petty Hibberd

HB: Salem May Lever

C: Langdon Oliver Spargo

HF: Bowey Brown Hunter

FF: Pickett JVR Petracca

R: Gawn Viney Sparrow

I: Grundy Chandler Rivers Howes

Sub: Brayshaw

So that gives us:

* McVee, Salem, Howes and Rivers as half back kickers. Rivers isn't great by foot, but would likely roll through there.

* Spargo, Hunter, Bowey, Kozzy, Chandler and Langdon as forward connectors. With the exception of Langdon, these are our better ball users.

* Petracca plays the stay at home forward role, essentially taking Fritsch's spot for now, and makes us far more dangerous at ground level.

I want to see how Brown and JVR play together again.

Brayshaw is a good sub, because he can plug just about any hole.

Again, won't happen, but I think we need to risk moving Bowey out of the back 7 (he was brilliant yesterday) and bringing in a low possession player like Spargo who's a good runner and also a good ball user. He, Hunter and Bowey would likely rotate on that non Langdon wing in my world.

I'd also look at using Grundy as a pure midfielder and only as a ruckman in small bursts (say the final 5-10 mins of quarters, ala Jackson). So he'd have to spend some time forward too.

[beelzebub 22,269]

1 minute ago, Roost it far said:

Correct it want there. The point was made though that in several occasions we just chose a poor option. So at least the options are there

By all accounts we train utilising leads..

And then comes game day..  Flinders St, all change,  this train not taking passengers. 

It makes no sense whatsoever 

[John Demonic 4,854]

17 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

Just watched Lyon’s analysis on the couch. Our forward connection was there it was just missed or ignored. Such an annoying loss

Another adjective would be disconnected. So not there.

Edited July 3, 2023 by John Demonic

[CHF 2,610]

Drop Gawn or Grundy. Bring in JVR to play a Jackson role to whoever is first ruck. Brown and Petty and JVR (rotating from the ruck) as talls in the forward 50. Kossie on last chance to to turn around his form ANB and one of Spargo or Chandler in there as well. 

If Oliver comes back in then Rotate Jordon, Petracca and Sparrow through the forward 50 at times to help cover the loss of Fristch. 

Ahhh Hell! it is all like moving the deck chairs. The forward line has been rubbish for the last 4 or 5 seasons and the club ha done nothing to remedy the situation. 

Love to see some of the younger guys from Casey given a run. It must be disheartening for them to see the rubbish being dished up by the senior team and see that not opportunities are opening up for them. 

The team at the moment really do look like a bunch of plodders.

[4_Kent_Watts 850]

On 7/2/2023 at 7:38 PM, Superunknown said:

Already have $ on SK after collecting on GWS

 

Me too it's the best way to enjoy the Footy these days. Got us at 3.75 to miss the top 4, were now at 2.45. Still reckon that's a good chance. Unbelievable that we are favourites against the Saints, Brizzy and Carlton. Thanks a plenty i dont think we are. Can we fix our Goal Kicking woes and with WHO. I'd rather the 4 points than the cash but it's a win win. Cmon on Melbourne Take My Money.

[spirit of norm smith 13,197]

Surely we have to ask about Gawn and the Gawn-Grundy combo.  Gawn has gone backwards and whilst he was injured for 5 weeks, he’s been back for 8 weeks. Hope Gawn asserts himself as No.1 Ruck and looks to dominate again. 

[Demon Dynasty 15,768]

55 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

And by earlier in the year you mean the preseason and maybe the Sydney game. It’s amazing how well he’s fit in to our system of moving the ball as slowly as possible and as boundary as possible.

We should play him on the right wing and have him swing corridor side to see if that can produce anything of value from his disposals.

Howes in for Hunter to play McVee role.

McVee up to the Hunter wing.

Hunter offers nothing forward of center.  Has no right foot and so slow across the park he's always under the pump on his left, resulting in too many shallow entries or kicks, mostly up the line.

Rarely hits corridor targets on 45s or not willing to risk it due to kicking limitations or being mostly well pressured.

We swapped a VG dour defender with limited attacking capabilities & poor and/or shallow entries into the 50 last season for a VG dour defender with limited attacking capabilities & poor and/or shallow entries into the 50 for this season.

The oppo knows this and set up 40ish meters down the line for a fairly easy defend, intercept or spoil.

Does that ring a bell at all?  If not cast your minds back to some of the issues we had going around the boundary most of the time and kicking down the line into our 50 in 2022!  Mostly to the pockets.

As good as Hunter is at reading the play and defending back of center, and very courageous at that, unfortunately he is a limited footballer with ball in hand resulting in sluggish / poor transitional method / ability when transitioning off HB.

One of the keys to giving your forwards a decent chance of converting entries inside 50 (today they are called "looks") is to transistion the ball (ball movement!) as quickly and efficiently as possible off HB and, where possible, via the corridor.

Langers and now Hunter ensure we do neither with the link up play.  BOTH MOSTLY play the long game around the boundary and it's killing any chance we have of becoming a damaging team in terms of forward efficiency/conversions.

So many of us scream out the same mantra "Why is our forward line always so crowded !!??"

Well folks.... this is a large part of the problem right here.

Ignore at our peril and if we do ignore.... expect more of the same disconnect and shocking conversion rate vs the massive number of inside 50s that we keep seeing....time after time on repeat!

If you want the same outcomes....just keep doing the same with (mostly) the same core group of players and that's what we'll get.  Hec we might even miss the eight (unlikely but we might go close ...and who just wants to make up the numbers and go out again in straight sets!!??)

Change it up and we might just get something decent out of what's left of this season.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Demon Dynasty

[chook fowler 18,358]

Spargo cops a lot on here but he is one that disposes effectively in the forward line. He is needed imo.

[ANG13 1,525]

2 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Surely we have to ask about Gawn and the Gawn-Grundy combo.  Gawn has gone backwards and whilst he was injured for 5 weeks, he’s been back for 8 weeks. Hope Gawn asserts himself as No.1 Ruck and looks to dominate again. 

Gawn looks like a player who is mentally and physically cooked. Hope he can find form soon. Personally feel having two big not very mobile rucks is just not suited to the modern game. 

[dee-tox 4,828]

10 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Surely we have to ask about Gawn and the Gawn-Grundy combo.  Gawn has gone backwards and whilst he was injured for 5 weeks, he’s been back for 8 weeks. Hope Gawn asserts himself as No.1 Ruck and looks to dominate again. 

Gawn is certainly a worry. Giving nothing up forward and little around the ground. Grundy has been serviceable but the much-hyped combination hasn't worked for the most part. If anything it has ruined the balance of what we had.

[rpfc 27,591]

15 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Surely we have to ask about Gawn and the Gawn-Grundy combo.  Gawn has gone backwards and whilst he was injured for 5 weeks, he’s been back for 8 weeks. Hope Gawn asserts himself as No.1 Ruck and looks to dominate again. 

Who honestly cares about Gawn being ‘Gawn’? We dominate games and can’t finish - that is not on the ruckmen. 

Jumping at shadows all over the place…

We need to commit to better decision making and delivery into the forward line, and create space and structure to maximise our strengths.

Its not easy but it is simple.

[Older demon 2,180]

On 7/2/2023 at 6:57 PM, Clint Bizkit said:

No way Smith goes out.

Chandler or Pickett out before him.

JVR for Fritsch and we are still a medium/tall forward short so ideally need someone else. 

Dare I say Tomlinson in to the backline and Petty forward.

Sorry but look at the opponent he was supposed to mind in the last 2 weeks. Tom Stewart after half time cut him up and this week Nick Haynes figured in the coach's votes. He isn't kicking goals and hasn't been able to quell the intercepting marker for the opposition. What other role am I not recognising?

[beelzebub 22,269]

11 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

Spargo cops a lot on here but he is one that disposes effectively in the forward line. He is needed imo.

He hasn't done himself a lot of favours of late, but i agree he does use the ball cleverly. He at least knows to look sideways etc . 

Bit of an enigma . Not sure who he replaces.

[Docs Demons 1,671]

3 hours ago, Gawndy the Great said:

We are not winning this one either. Goody will be outcoached again. 
 

Saints will win by flooding backline and then score in counter attack. They have the ball movement skills and athletes to pull it off. Just wait and see. 

Maybe you should barrack for the Saints then.

[bobby1554 1,146]

59 minutes ago, A F said:

Won't happen, but here's what I'd go with:

FB: McVee Petty Hibberd

HB: Salem May Lever

C: Langdon Oliver Spargo

HF: Bowey Brown Hunter

FF: Pickett JVR Petracca

R: Gawn Viney Sparrow

I: Grundy Chandler Rivers Howes

Sub: Brayshaw

So that gives us:

* McVee, Salem, Howes and Rivers as half back kickers. Rivers isn't great by foot, but would likely roll through there.

* Spargo, Hunter, Bowey, Kozzy, Chandler and Langdon as forward connectors. With the exception of Langdon, these are our better ball users.

* Petracca plays the stay at home forward role, essentially taking Fritsch's spot for now, and makes us far more dangerous at ground level.

I want to see how Brown and JVR play together again.

Brayshaw is a good sub, because he can plug just about any hole.

Again, won't happen, but I think we need to risk moving Bowey out of the back 7 (he was brilliant yesterday) and bringing in a low possession player like Spargo who's a good runner and also a good ball user. He, Hunter and Bowey would likely rotate on that non Langdon wing in my world.

I'd also look at using Grundy as a pure midfielder and only as a ruckman in small bursts (say the final 5-10 mins of quarters, ala Jackson). So he'd have to spend some time forward too.

Hibberd is out for another 3 weeks. But other than that, not bad. And I would love to see Petracca isolated as a forward, it would scare the s..t out of anyone