POSTGAME: Rd 05 vs Essendon

[kev martin 9,215]

Just finished watching the game. AFL live was very late in posting it.

My thoughts are we were a bit off. Some players were fumbley and had trouble getting into the game. Langdon, McVee, Bowey, May, Chandler, Sparrow, Rivers, TMac, Tomlinson, JJ, Fritta, ANB, Kossie (more than half the team). Some looked tired and lazy.

The Dons match ups, worked well.

We play our best game when we hold the ball in our 50 area, the backs can then push high and so create multiple entries. Didn't see much of that.

Essendon were much cleaner/harder/smarter, able to make quicker decisions that came off, and moved the ball well to mark in their 50.

We played from behind and let them have control of the play.

We didn't always lift our eyes when kicking into attack, so turnovers/intercepts and not being able to kick to advantage, hurt us.

There were a lot of selfish plays, where it looked like “I will do it alone”. (Fritta, Melksham, Pickett).

Our connection/support/ talk was lacking, and we couldn't read or execute the moment.

The zoning, as well as getting to the fall of the ball, didn't work.

We will have a few sore players, and the 10-day break has come at the right time.

Edited April 17, 2023 by kev martin

[IRW 1,251]

7 hours ago, layzie said:

I did the same, really wanted to let it sit for a bit and get some clarity. You have not only hit the nail on the head but built a house with the remaining nails. 

That Brisbane game was the definition of a one-off as we will never be monstered like that in contested ball. This game however took things to a new level. I’m a realistic football fan, I don’t yell ‘pick the ball up’ at games and then get really annoyed at players when they don’t. It’s a two team sport after all but what I can’t cop is having our fortress attacked and destroyed at our most strongest points. To be 35 – 7 in the possession count 5 mins in was very telling, to be smashed in centre clearances early was also telling, but the icing on the cake was to concede 15 marks inside defensive 50 mostly directly in front. That is the point you throw your hands up and say “well, they got us”. Lever out definitely hurt of course as he’s so often the guy coming over the top and killing the contest but come on, we should have had enough to deal with their talls. 

We really missed Gawn’s ability to drop back and influence as well and this is where I look squarely at Brodie Grundy and say “Mate, you may be getting beat in the ruck right now but you can still influence the game in other ways." Get on your bike and push back hard to try and get a spoil, a physical body on a Bombers forward, something, anything! It was so obvious we were getting outmarked 1 v 1 in that backline, we really needed some help. To be fair no Hibbo and a wounded Petty didn’t help either as they can cut across and do this but we just needed the big man getting back more. 

I said this earlier but when the ball was in the air and the pack formed, we seemed to setup with someone front and square and a couple on either side ready to takeway and move the ball quickly forward. Rarely we had someone to the back of the contest and the number of times Essendon got a long kick out of the 50 up to the wing or centre it would come off hands to the back and perfectly placed for a Bomber to take it then scrap kick it into 50 where we got outmarked all the time. I found this happened in the Brisbane game for nearly every first quarter goal. I don’t know if it’s just coincidence but I’ve said before there are things about our defensive approach and what got us here that I don’t want to lose completely. Which kind of leads me into the next point.

The Bombers played with such speed and dare in the first half, the game was not really played in close at all and there were very few stoppages. It’s time like this where I’d like to slow the game down a bit, force stoppages and let our contested bulls get to work. The rain could have really helped us get back into it, as the 2nd half started I thought that maybe Essendon could struggle because they won’t be able to get as much speed on it and it will be harder to bomb in long to their tall timber. If we could just get that first goal of the second half we may well be able to scrap back into it and get it on our terms. 

No, we simply weren’t up for the challenge. EFC came out and went bang, bang, bang with 3 straight and the game was dead. Forget what happened previously, this was the most disappointing moment of the game for me. After this there was this feeling of cue in the rack with 15 mins left in the 3rd quarter? I was seeing JVR down back, Fritsch up the ground, the kind of moves you see when we’re 50 points down. We turned our heels up.

It’s such a cliché in AFL footy to say another team wanted it more but this is exactly what happened. We started off looking a bit cruisey and casual, trying some fancy stuff and not always thinking team first while Essendon player were cracking in 110% efforts, tackling to hurt and always providing an option for a handball. In a lot of ways we were beaten at our own game and anyone still saying Essendon will do nothing this year you may be right but don’t be surprised if this is a platform for them to build on this year. For Melbourne this sets us back a little, while nothing fatal we had some weaknesses laid bare and there to be exploited. We were outcoached and their selections paid off big time. It’s extremely unsettling to see this lack of effort in Round 5, we saw the response after Brisbane but the one thing you want each week is effort and I hope this isn’t going to be a team that thinks they can flick the switch and get the job done as opposed to consistent intensity. 

Long way to go but it’s a more level playing field than we think sometimes. We don’t have a divine right to beat a team on a given day and if you’re 5% off you likely get done. Bit nervy for the ANZAC eve game now as we run into a Richmond side with two losses on the bounce and something to prove. Would have been much nicer to go into it off a win but that’s the way it is. 
 

" speed and dare" ..Collingwood are going to smash them unless the coach actually coaches on game day..which is unlikely 

[IRW 1,251]

20 hours ago, Gawndy the Great said:

You couldn’t have missed the point anymore than you just have. 

No I didn't Scott was on the money with facts to support him.

 Goodwin couldnt run a press conference for kindergartens .

He was a good footballer though 

[jayceebee31 671]

We were outplayed, out coached in a pathetic, appalling display showing up deep weaknesses in our list as well as similar to what happened against Brisbane. We need to recruit another quality half back flanker as Bowey and McVee are not up to it as yet.Brayshaw is not a HBF in my opinion and is wasted there.He needs to play on ball .We also need to recruit another tall ruckman type if the two young ones in Verall,Ferris- White is not up to it.Don’t even know where Ferris- White is playing.The list shows a large weakness when Salem, Lever, Hibberd and in particular Gawn is out.Taylor/ Lamb need to take note and gain these types to cover this list issues especially now when we have these injuries .The team seemed to not show spirit and basic football class with in particular fumbling , not punching the ball away etc….this was never addressed in the game by the coaches .

[Roost it far 6,239]

Whilst the loss disappointed me it’s round 5, we’ve been on the road a lot and we looked flat. On the bright side Essendon flogged us but still only won by 4.5 goals. To play so poorly and lose by 27 shows me how good we actually are. Add Gawn, Lever, Salem and Hibberd over the next 4-6 and barring more injuries it’s look out, here cone the Demons.

[jayceebee31 671]

16 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

 

16 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

Whilst the loss disappointed me it’s round 5, we’ve been on the road a lot and we looked flat. On the bright side Essendon flogged us but still only won by 4.5 goals. To play so poorly and lose by 27 shows me how good we actually are. Add Gawn, Lever, Salem and Hibberd over the next 4-6 and barring more injuries it’s look out, here cone the Demons.

Agree with your thoughts but we did show list weaknesses that we need to cover these issues in my opinion.Plus we should be giving Disco Turner and maybe even Howes ago before we let Tomlinson etc back at AFL level.

Edited April 17, 2023 by jayceebee31
Duplication - tried to erase with no good result

[WalkingCivilWar 32,722]

10 hours ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Yes good point.

I had a vivid dream about 5/6 years ago that we played off against this mob in a GF.

Game up for grabs with 5 minutes to go.

Wondering if it will happen (in my lifetime haha)

Yes… and?

AND???!!!

Who won??????!!

[beelzebub 22,244]

6 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Something to remember about both the Lions and Ess games is that half way through the last quarter we were nearly 7 goals down in both games.

We whitled that down to 2 goals vs Lions and 4 goals vs Ess by the end. 

Folks could say the opp relaxed etc  Sure, but we were good enough and energised enough to take advantage of any lapse just as they exploited our weakness.

That we were able to fight back and gain momentum is a big positive out of both losses.  The losses shouldn't lead to worsening MFCSS.

Something of a shame that we hadn't really turned up for most of those games... you know   first 3 qtrs...  but.hey

[Gawndy the Great 7,622]

8 hours ago, layzie said:

I just want these two games to happen because I'm so sick of hearing about it. I still think he can play a depth role but I am sick to death of hearing theories about the club trying to get him to 100 games in red and blue. It's been a while since I've repeatedly read so much claptrap around these parts. 

The notion that we are gifting a guy games to get to 100 on the off chance that his offspring may be eligible (providing they choose to play footy) to draft in 15 years time and to do this over someone like a James Jordon is just absurd and something thought up in the land of never never. 

I don’t understand the hate either. There are plenty of other players who get away with not doing much to naked eye as well. 
 

What I noticed on Saturday was that when he wants to, he can definitely have a 2-3 goal game. Perhaps the fire doesn’t burn as it once did.

[Gawndy the Great 7,622]

47 minutes ago, jayceebee31 said:

We were outplayed, out coached in a pathetic, appalling display showing up deep weaknesses in our list as well as similar to what happened against Brisbane. We need to recruit another quality half back flanker as Bowey and McVee are not up to it as yet.Brayshaw is not a HBF in my opinion and is wasted there.He needs to play on ball .We also need to recruit another tall ruckman type if the two young ones in Verall,Ferris- White is not up to it.Don’t even know where Ferris- White is playing.The list shows a large weakness when Salem, Lever, Hibberd and in particular Gawn is out.Taylor/ Lamb need to take note and gain these types to cover this list issues especially now when we have these injuries .The team seemed to not show spirit and basic football class with in particular fumbling , not punching the ball away etc….this was never addressed in the game by the coaches .

McVee had some ordinary disposal but the kid has got a rare timelessness about him. He needs more AFL games to develop. Bowey is struggling to impact games and get involved. 

[jayceebee31 671]

1 hour ago, Gawndy the Great said:

McVee had some ordinary disposal but the kid has got a rare timelessness about him. He needs more AFL games to develop. Bowey is struggling to impact games and get involved. 

McVee might make it, and I agree should have more games , but in my opinion give him3 more,and then ,maybe a rest- managed .Bowey a rest in the VFL.

[Longsufferingnomore 1,484]

3 hours ago, Gawndy the Great said:

I don’t understand the hate either. There are plenty of other players who get away with not doing much to naked eye as well. 
 

What I noticed on Saturday was that when he wants to, he can definitely have a 2-3 goal game. Perhaps the fire doesn’t burn as it once did.

That is rubbish. He went through extra during the summer to make sure that he wouldn't just end up at Casey and give the firsts a really good final go.  Did you see how he reacted with that goal on the siren against the Swans. Of course the fire still burns.

[Macca 16,173]

Yes as LH mentioned we didn't throw in the towel so fighting it out when all is lost is good practice

Especially when a future game is tight ... tapping into that never give up attitude will help win a close encounter

So 2 days later and it's time for the team to reset & redeem ourselves.  Time to look ahead to Richmond and get focused

The Tigers are short on ruckmen as well but if Gawn is good to go, he plays. We need his leadership, steadying influence and stellar ability

And we don't necessarily need another week where we are overworking Grundy.  In an ideal world we might have rested Grundy this week such is the squad mentality that is coming into the sport

Concern ourselves with North when that's the next encounter up

[beelzebub 22,244]

8 hours ago, Gawndy the Great said:

McVee had some ordinary disposal but the kid has got a rare timelessness about him. He needs more AFL games to develop. Bowey is struggling to impact games and get involved. 

I mentioned Bowey to a few (not here... but ...out there...in reality )  My observations of his games so far this year would unfortunately qualify him for "turnover merchant of the year".  There's no joy in saying that.  Whatever he possessed in calm precision disposal has abandoned him. Far too many times he's over/underweighted kicks or arguably worse...just poor decisions where he kicks to a very low % situation. 

Either he fixes it or finds himself  replaced.

He's cost goals at unfortunately important moments of games.

He's not alone either

[Demon Dynasty 15,679]

10 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Yes… and?

AND???!!!

Who won??????!!

Oh well all i recall was we were kicking to the Punt Rd end with 5 minutes left and only a few points in it.  Pretty sure i woke up at that point or the dream changed haha.

If someone was sending a message it's a pretty cruel message.

[Demon Dynasty 15,679]

6 hours ago, Macca said:

Yes as LH mentioned we didn't throw in the towel so fighting it out when all is lost is good practice

Especially when a future game is tight ... tapping into that never give up attitude will help win a close encounter

So 2 days later and it's time for the team to reset & redeem ourselves.  Time to look ahead to Richmond and get focused

The Tigers are short on ruckmen as well but if Gawn is good to go, he plays. We need his leadership, steadying influence and stellar ability

And we don't necessarily need another week where we are overworking Grundy.  In an ideal world we might have rested Grundy this week such is the squad mentality that is coming into the sport

Concern ourselves with North when that's the next encounter up

A 9 day break though Macca...plenty of time for the boys to recoup... even Reg

[dazzledavey36 48,953]

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

I mentioned Bowey to a few (not here... but ...out there...in reality )  My observations of his games so far this year would unfortunately qualify him for "turnover merchant of the year".  There's no joy in saying that.  Whatever he possessed in calm precision disposal has abandoned him. Far too many times he's over/underweighted kicks or arguably worse...just poor decisions where he kicks to a very low % situation. 

Either he fixes it or finds himself  replaced.

He's cost goals at unfortunately important moments of games.

He's not alone either

I agree Beelzebub. Another who's form has slowly been on the decline since 2021. Still relatively young so has many more years ahead of him but I had high expectations of him taking a big step forward this year. Still early on the season so hopefully he starts to get better.

I honestly think his best position is a wing half forward. I know we've already got two quality wingers but he was drafted as an outside midfielder who could also have an impact up forward with his goal sense and kicking efficiency. 

[layzie 29,136]

I find it interesting that the forward line copped heat in this thread like it was one of the main problems of the day. I thought our forwards did pretty well with the opportunities they had early on. 

[Lucifers Hero 37,207]

11 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Something of a shame that we hadn't really turned up for most of those games... you know   first 3 qtrs...  but.hey

Can't always have it our way, bb.

Welcome back!🙂

[layzie 29,136]

1 hour ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Oh well all i recall was we were kicking to the Punt Rd end with 5 minutes left and only a few points in it.  Pretty sure i woke up at that point or the dream changed haha.

If someone was sending a message it's a pretty cruel message.

I hate it when the dream changes. 

[Macca 16,173]

3 hours ago, Demon Dynasty said:

A 9 day break though Macca...plenty of time for the boys to recoup... even Reg

Yes but the margin could have been quite significant and that can dent confidence

And we are a team that thrives on confidence ... without that, we can play an introverted style and not take enough risks

So one of the contrasting standouts from the game was how a lesser team (on paper) attacked through the corridor far more than what we did

It was only in the last quarter where we took risks ... same thing happened in the Brisbane game.  Both times led by Oliver

And I don't believe in the being forced wide part of it.  Corridor football requires risk and we played safe. 

There were many times we could have gone inboard but we didn't present as targets in the corridor

So we went wide and played into Essendon's hands.  We didn't panic their defence

And got cleaned up as a consequence

Edited April 18, 2023 by Macca

[Pates 9,537]

So I was at a stag do on Saturday which centred around a mate who's a big Dees fan. After going to one pub for some drinks we then went on another place to watch the Dees, not gonna lie it reminded me that no matter how far we've come our mighty Dees still have the great ability to ruin a party!

I can't remember much because we got into a fair bit of booze, but we just looked off in all aspects. 2nd to the ball, not enough 2nd, 3rd and 4th efforts, skills not adapting to the conditions (twice we've been undone when the ball and ground is slick). I think what frustrated me was there seemed to be an element of accepting the day as a loss after a while, there didn't seem to be that hunger to come back.

Anyway, alcohol (and since then a stomach virus) has managed to wipe away most of the tripe we witnessed. It makes ANZAC eve a massive match for us, it has to be a statement that we are not to be f---ed with. 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Pates

[layzie 29,136]

9 hours ago, beelzebub said:

I mentioned Bowey to a few (not here... but ...out there...in reality )  My observations of his games so far this year would unfortunately qualify him for "turnover merchant of the year".  There's no joy in saying that.  Whatever he possessed in calm precision disposal has abandoned him. Far too many times he's over/underweighted kicks or arguably worse...just poor decisions where he kicks to a very low % situation. 

Either he fixes it or finds himself  replaced.

He's cost goals at unfortunately important moments of games.

He's not alone either

Double B spot on as always! 

[Demon Dynasty 15,679]

8 hours ago, layzie said:

I hate it when the dream changes. 

Err....ummm.... not sure whether i should agree with you on this one or not! 😄

[Demon Dynasty 15,679]

10 hours ago, beelzebub said:

I mentioned Bowey to a few (not here... but ...out there...in reality )  My observations of his games so far this year would unfortunately qualify him for "turnover merchant of the year".  There's no joy in saying that.  Whatever he possessed in calm precision disposal has abandoned him. Far too many times he's over/underweighted kicks or arguably worse...just poor decisions where he kicks to a very low % situation. 

Either he fixes it or finds himself  replaced.

He's cost goals at unfortunately important moments of games.

He's not alone either

I havent paid enough attention to Bowey to give an objective view here Bubs but the turnover & clanger stats suggest he's rated very low on both counts.

Turnover averages to Rnd 5 indicate he is only bettered by one other (so far part-time) defender here in Petty...who has the lowest turnover ave in the team.

Out of 25 players that have played at least two matches or more Bowey's ranked 8th lowest @ 2.4 per match