Death Riding Fremantle 2023 - Feathered Cap Edition

[HarpenDee 174]

Afl Daily Podcast just released todays episode "Top Four Freo?". 

[adonski 9,151]

15 minutes ago, HarpenDee said:

Afl Daily Podcast just released todays episode "Top Four Freo?". 

Top twelve Freo doesn't have the same ring to it 

[Timothy Reddan-A'Blew 3,838]

Careful, everyone: toying with schadenfreude perhaps FEEDS A CHUNDER!

 

Best I could do...

[Mach5 4,482]

Not sure they’ll be able to kick enough goals if their forward line is Jackson & Fyfe.
Their talk of us mis-using Jackson & not appreciating his ability as a forward would appear to be more wishful thinking than anything.

[Lucifers Hero 37,079]

Freo can see they have an uphill battle next year:

cant-have-it-all-dockers

"Dockers CEO Simon Garlick says the club and players aren’t “overly concerned” with the draw that will also include double games against preliminary finalists Brisbane and finalists the Western Bulldogs".  (Plus Geelong and Sydney double ups).

• Just a little concerned perhaps?

“There’s no doubt we’ve seen all the analysis over the last couple of days and the double ups and the like that we’ve got some on-field challenges ahead of us..."

• The downside of finishing in the top 6!

"From Round 16, the Dockers will play six consecutive games against teams that finished in the top nine last year – but three of those games will be at home".

• A tough run home.

As Garlick rightly points out what looks like a hard/easy draw now may not turn out that way.

 

Without doing the 'death ridie' thing, I don't like their chances of making finals especially as they need to integrate key players:  Jackson for Lobb, O'Meara for Mundy and cover the loss of Logue, Tucker, and Acres  who are in their 'best 25'. 

It may take the first third of the season, when they need to win a lot of games, to settle the team by which time the season may have slipped away, given their tough run home.

They are a young side so can see them sliding next year 🤞 to come back in 2024.   Which means we will end up with a fairer price for Jackson.😉

Edited December 12, 2022 by Lucifers Hero

[loges 6,062]

10 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Freo can see they have an uphill battle next year:

cant-have-it-all-dockers

"Dockers CEO Simon Garlick says the club and players aren’t “overly concerned” with the draw that will also include double games against preliminary finalists Brisbane and finalists the Western Bulldogs".  (Plus Geelong and Sydney double ups).

• Just a little concerned perhaps?

“There’s no doubt we’ve seen all the analysis over the last couple of days and the double ups and the like that we’ve got some on-field challenges ahead of us..."

• The downside of finishing in the top 6!

"From Round 16, the Dockers will play six consecutive games against teams that finished in the top nine last year – but three of those games will be at home".

• A tough run home.

 

As Garlick rightly points out what looks like a hard/easy draw now may not turn out that way depending on which teams rise and fall.

Without doing the 'death ridie' thing, I don't like their chances of making finals especially as they need to integrate new, key players:  Jackson for Lobb, O'Meara for Mundy and cover the loss of Logue (20 games in 2022), Tucker (14 games in 2022) and Acres (20 games in 2022).  A lot of experience and 'best 25' lost in those players.

It may take the first third of the season, when they need to win a lot of games, to settle the team by which time the season may have slipped away, given their tough run home.

They are a young side so can see them sliding next year 🤞 to come back in 2024.   Which means we will end up with a fairer price for Jackson.😉

Who's going to kick their goals?

[layzie 28,892]

The pressure is fairly and squarely on the Fremantle Dockers in 2023. 

[durango 1,979]

Fact is Jackson in his 52 games for the MFC kicked only 30 goals and played as ruck forward where as Lobb kicked 36 goals last year in 21 games.

Rory Lobb is 207cm where as Luke Jackson is 199cm but more mobile this is not a like for like replacement.

[Lucifers Hero 37,079]

7 minutes ago, durango said:

Fact is Jackson in his 52 games for the MFC kicked only 30 goals and played as ruck forward where as Lobb kicked 36 goals last year in 21 games.

Rory Lobb is 207cm where as Luke Jackson is 199cm but more mobile this is not a like for like replacement.

May not be in theory but Freo intend to play Jackson as a fwd so he is a Lobb replacement in practice. 

Bell even said we didn't use him enough as a fwd and our game style didn't suit him as a fwd.  They intend to change his role to be predominately a fwd.  Not sure how Jackson will like that...

Edited December 12, 2022 by Lucifers Hero

[layzie 28,892]

11 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

May not be in theory but Freo intend to play Jackson as a fwd so he is a Lobb replacement in practice. 

Bell even said we didn't use him enough as a fwd and our game style didn't suit him as a fwd.  They intend to change his role to be predominately a fwd.  Not sure how Jackson will like that...

"All good, we'll just turn this generational Ferrari into a conventional hit up forward!"

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,585]

37 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

May not be in theory but Freo intend to play Jackson as a fwd so he is a Lobb replacement in practice. 

Bell even said we didn't use him enough as a fwd and our game style didn't suit him as a fwd.  They intend to change his role to be predominately a fwd.  Not sure how Jackson will like that...

 

23 minutes ago, layzie said:

"All good, we'll just turn this generational Ferrari into a conventional hit up forward!"

If his efforts in the dying stages of the Brisbane Lions final are anything to go by, (being show how to attack the marking contest by Harry Petty) he won't like that much at all.  I hardly think he's a contested marking beast.  Ok on a lead and if he gets a jump at it, but I think he'll find those things much tougher as one of the main targets and he's getting double/tripple teamed and his leading corridors cut off by oppo defenses.

Key forward would be a whole new learning curve for Dogga.  Who knows maybe he's up to it, will really turn it on, but equally it could frustrate him, crush his confidence and development.

[whatwhat say what 19,011]

1 hour ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Key forward would be a whole new learning curve for Dogga.  Who knows maybe he's up to it, will really turn it on, but equally it could frustrate him, crush his confidence and development.

this

personally i think he's such a unique talent that he IS up to it - he is so young and shows such a versatility of skills

still hate that he walked out

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,585]

57 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

this

personally i think he's such a unique talent that he IS up to it - he is so young and shows such a versatility of skills

still hate that he walked out

You could be right and only time will tell.

Freo and Dogga could be taking a bit of a risk with his development though.  He was developing reasonably well as a mobile ruck, but now they are throwing him in the deep end and asking him to do something quite different.

Could argue that Jack Watts was also a unique tallent in some ways, but his early exposure to being asked to carry a key forward role with a lack of support set him back.  I know Dogga is not Jack, Freo 2023 are not MFC 2008 ish and Longmiur is not Neeld by a long stretch.  I don't really wish ill of Dogga (And Freo to an extent) but for our drafting purposes in 2023, I hope that he and Freo struggle to make his transition to their side work in the short term.

I don't hate Freo, but they have now twice in recient history (three times if you include Farmer although he's somewhat canceled by Jeff White) acted to destabilise the season of the MFC, so I really do hope they suffer somewhat next season.  Us thrashing them, the Eagles beating them and a bottom 5 finish would square up the ledger as far as I'm concerned.

[Lucifers Hero 37,079]

iirc JT said we planned to have Jackson as a fwd.  I think it was in one of the 2020 pre-draft interviews.

However, we saw something different in him and changed that early view.  Maybe Freo will change their view.   After all, the best stretch of his career so far was the GF when he was in the middle.

At the Dees he learnt his ruck craft from Max.  At Freo he may learn from Darcy but Darcy himself is still learning.  But then again, not sure what big men Freo have to help get the best out of Jackson.

Time will tell.

[binman 38,282]

3 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

May not be in theory but Freo intend to play Jackson as a fwd so he is a Lobb replacement in practice. 

Bell even said we didn't use him enough as a fwd and our game style didn't suit him as a fwd.  They intend to change his role to be predominately a fwd.  Not sure how Jackson will like that...

I hadn't heard that luci.

I  thought i read they were thinking of using him almost as a mid. 

And I have definitely read - and heard Jackson say - a few times, that his preferred position is ruck as he liked to follow the football.

My biggest knock on Jackson was his forward craft. Which is average at best. He is not a natural forward, the way say jvr us.

And he is not a one grab mark, which is nor great for a permanent forward. And he gets the yips a bot - so in that sense a good replacement for lobb

I have no doubt his forward craft will improve. The kid is a star. As he gets bigger, he will be hard to stop.

But he won't be at his peak for another 3-4 years.

If freo are relying on Jackson to be their main avenue to goal, they are going to struggle to kick winning scored.

[adonski 9,151]

🙌

Edited December 13, 2022 by adonski

[rjay 23,922]

2 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

this

personally i think he's such a unique talent that he IS up to it - he is so young and shows such a versatility of skills

still hate that he walked out

 

4 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Bell even said we didn't use him enough as a fwd and our game style didn't suit him as a fwd.  They intend to change his role to be predominately a fwd.  Not sure how Jackson will like that...

 

4 minutes ago, binman said:

And I have definitely read - and heard Jackson say - a few times, that his preferred position is ruck as he liked to follow the football.

My biggest knock on Jackson was his forward craft. Which is average at best. He is not a natural forward, the way say jvr us.

For one, I don't think Jackson is a unique talent. I think he is definitely a great talent.

One very similar player just retired is Paddy Ryder. However, Paddy is a better mark...good set of hands whereas Jackson is a bit hit and miss.

EFC tried to make Paddy into a KPF and it never worked. Port tried sometimes and it didn't work.

St Kilda played him in his right position as a ruck and even though at the end of his career as one of my Saint supporter mates says, he was their best player.

Ryder was shorter than Jackson and towelled him up this year.

All that said, I think Jacksons talent is best suited to some kind of follower role...either as a ruck or tall mid.

He hits the ground and recovers quickly, he has great vision and breaks team-mates into open space.

I don't see him as a KPF but I do hope they persist with him there as he will still be an asset for us if they do...

[Lucifers Hero 37,079]

44 minutes ago, binman said:

I hadn't heard that luci.

I  thought i read they were thinking of using him almost as a mid. 

 

Definitely forward : luke-jackson-fremantle-traded-from-melbourne-contract-game-plan-where-will-he-play

Note the 'drive by' chip at mfc.

[DubDee 20,684]

6 hours ago, loges said:

Who's going to kick their goals?

The Big Kahuna??  😂

[binman 38,282]

39 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Definitely forward : luke-jackson-fremantle-traded-from-melbourne-contract-game-plan-where-will-he-play

Note the 'drive by' chip at mfc.

This is one of the articles i saw about Jackson not playing as a permanent forward (noting it is before he actually got to Freo, and doesn't quote anyone from Freo):

Forward thinking: Dockers eye unique midfield role for Jackson

Luke Jackson appears unlikely to spend too much time in the forward line if his potential move west to Fremantle comes off

[Roger Mellie 3,504]

5 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

May not be in theory but Freo intend to play Jackson as a fwd so he is a Lobb replacement in practice. 

Bell even said we didn't use him enough as a fwd and our game style didn't suit him as a fwd.  They intend to change his role to be predominately a fwd.  Not sure how Jackson will like that...

May they bomb it far and wide!

[Lucifers Hero 37,079]

1 minute ago, binman said:

This is one of the articles i saw about Jackson not playing as a permanent forward (noting it is before he actually got to Freo, and doesn't quote anyone from Freo):

Forward thinking: Dockers eye unique midfield role for Jackson

Luke Jackson appears unlikely to spend too much time in the forward line if his potential move west to Fremantle comes off

Change of heart after they drafted him by the look of it.

Not the first time a player has been recruited with the promise of a role then find themselves with something else.  J. Howe is an obvious one.  It won't be the last.

At least Owe went into a back line role he had been performing well in.  Jackson is yet to lay claim to a fwd role.  But Bell thinks it is mfc's fault for our 'narrow' forward play.  Time will tell. 

[binman 38,282]

44 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Definitely forward : luke-jackson-fremantle-traded-from-melbourne-contract-game-plan-where-will-he-play

Note the 'drive by' chip at mfc.

Does Peter Bell post on Demonland?

Has (insert name of frequent DL forward entry critic of your choice) and Peter Bell ever been in the same room together?

“For a few different reasons - and look, far be it from me to criticise Melbourne with the way that they play given the success they’ve had - they do play when they go inside 50 quite a narrow sort of entry, they’ll go narrow to the pockets a lot and Luke did often find himself as that tall on the other side of the 50 if you like"

Far be it for Bell to criticize us. Funny stuff

[binman 38,282]

4 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Change of heart after they drafted him by the look of it.

Not the first time a player has been recruited with the promise of a role then find themselves with something else.  J. Howe is an obvious one.  It won't be the last.

At least Owe went into a back line role he had been performing well in.  Jackson is yet to lay claim to a fwd role.  But Bell thinks it is mfc's fault for our 'narrow' forward play.  Time will tell. 

I wonder if it is more about Bell playing fixer and assuaging concerns Darcy might have about Jackson eating into his ruck minutes?

When i first read the article i linked, my thought was if i was Darcy, Freo's number one ruck and with English the best young ruck in the AFL, id be pretty annoyed at talk of Jackon waltzing in (on a much bigger contract) and splitting the ruck duties.

[1964_2 2,357]

6 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

May not be in theory but Freo intend to play Jackson as a fwd so he is a Lobb replacement in practice. 

Bell even said we didn't use him enough as a fwd and our game style didn't suit him as a fwd.  They intend to change his role to be predominately a fwd.  Not sure how Jackson will like that...

Don’t disagree with these comments from Bell. 

Although Jacko generally didn’t perform as a fwd for us, the whole kick to the boundary game plan with a congested fwd 50 didn’t do him any favours. 

he was also our 3rd sometimes 4th target. Be interesting how he goes as main or 2nd target. 

But Jacko has said on many occasions that he prefers ruck or around the ball.