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Didn't See That Coming (In a good way)

Roger Mellie
in Melbourne Demons

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Patrick Ryder tonight  was asked during 'On The Couch,' who were the best three ruckmen in the comp (currently).

His response was 'The two Melbourne boys' followed by himself. I expected Max to be named at No. 1, but I sure as hell didn't expect Dogga at 2 (or vice versa for that matter)! 

🔫 🔫

Lyon later mentioned that Gawn still rates Ryder as the best centre square ruckman in the comp!

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    I saw that.  Was also a little (pleasantly) surprised about Jackson, as other more experienced ruckmen get talked up in the media.  Shows what they know!

    Ryder was a little modest not putting himself second.  Nonetheless, second or third it was very high praise for Jackson, coming from one of the best, who knows what he is talking about.

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    1 hour ago, Lucifers Hero said:

    I saw that.  Was also a little (pleasantly) surprised about Jackson, as other more experienced ruckmen get talked up in the media.  Shows what they know!

    Ryder was a little modest not putting himself second.  Nonetheless, second or third it was very high praise for Jackson, coming from one of the best, who knows what he is talking about.

    Nice to seer peer recogniton from Ryder for Jackson.

    But Jackson plays ruck in the manner of a basketball centre, aiiming for top of the throw but with excellent follow up on the ground which most rucks don't have.  I suspect Ryder rated this as a quality.

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    4 minutes ago, Demon17 said:

    Nice to seer peer recogniton from Ryder for Jackson.

    But Jackson plays ruck in the manner of a basketball centre, aiiming for top of the throw but with excellent follow up on the ground which most rucks don't have.  I suspect Ryder rated this as a quality.

    True. But his ruck craft is really improving- particularly his soft taps to advantage.

    Holding his ground better too at around the ground stoppages and throw ins.

     

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    Ryder is a gun. What is he now? 38? 40?

     

    Amazing

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    11 hours ago, Roger Mellie said:

    Patrick Ryder tonight  was asked during 'On The Couch,' who were the best three ruckmen in the comp (currently).

    His response was 'The two Melbourne boys' followed by himself. I expected Max to be named at No. 1, but I sure as hell didn't expect Dogga at 2 (or vice versa for that matter)! 

    🔫 🔫

    Lyon later mentioned that Gawn still rates Ryder as the best centre square ruckman in the comp!

    Was it a broad question about the best ruckman including tap work, marking, goal kicking and around the ground play or was it more about ruck craft at bounces and throw-ins?

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    41 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

    Was it a broad question about the best ruckman including tap work, marking, goal kicking and around the ground play or was it more about ruck craft at bounces and throw-ins?

    It was simply (from Lyon) - Name the best three ruckmen in the comp, currently!

    He (Ryder) may have interpreted that as a ruck combo (hence the Jackson reference) but then went on to put himself at 3, so maybe not.

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    I actually thought it was a quick response without much thought after Gary had said he's in the 2nd best ruck combo after the dees one - so the dees players were front of mind.

    As good as Jackson (and his potential) is, there's no way he's the second best ruckman in the game at the moment.

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    6 minutes ago, deelusions from afar said:

    I actually thought it was a quick response without much thought after Gary had said he's in the 2nd best ruck combo after the dees one - so the dees players were front of mind.

    As good as Jackson (and his potential) is, there's no way he's the second best ruckman in the game at the moment.

    This is exactly how i interpreted it. He put himself at 3. It was a throw away question and answer. Max #1 then daylight is probably the right answer. 

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    Great interview from Ryder. Will most likely enter his 18th season next year. 

    I respect him a great deal. He was one of the few to hold the bombers to account and left due to the clubs lack of player welfare. He was concerned about the impact of the hundreds of injections might have on his unborn child

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    42 minutes ago, DubDee said:

    Great interview from Ryder. Will most likely enter his 18th season next year. 

    I respect him a great deal. He was one of the few to hold the bombers to account and left due to the clubs lack of player welfare. He was concerned about the impact of the hundreds of injections might have on his unborn child

    Or, he may have wanted to leave Essendon anyway and used the supplements program as an excuse. I say this because Essendon seem to have a habit of players wishing to leave (Fantasia, Daniher, Saad, etc) and none of them are because of the supplements program. In other words, I think there may be an ongoing underlying player satisfaction problem at Essendon.  

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    The thing about the Jackson - Gawn combo is unless teams track and match our rotations (which would be very tricky) opponents won’t go against one of them individually. And by going against a combination they don’t get to settle.

    Ryder has to adapt his plan at centre bounces, and then even more so has to adapt his plan around the ground.

    Up against Gawn he has to constant position in better spots or play as a defender to avoid getting out marked. Up against Jackson he has to chase him around the ground. 

    I can see why you’d rate Jackson very highly because every time Gawn comes out rather than getting relief you get a whole new challenge.

    The Saints know this as much as anyone because they do the same thing with Marshall!

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    I think the best 3 rucks right now would be Gawn, Witts, Ryder. All three are amazing tap ruckmen and marks. Jackson is something different and certainly an up and coming talent, not in the top 3 ruckman right now though IMHO.

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    4 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

    Or, he may have wanted to leave Essendon anyway and used the supplements program as an excuse. I say this because Essendon seem to have a habit of players wishing to leave (Fantasia, Daniher, Saad, etc) and none of them are because of the supplements program. In other words, I think there may be an ongoing underlying player satisfaction problem at Essendon.  

    Don't Pig and Melky qualify or did we lure them away? 

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    28 minutes ago, 58er said:

    Don't Pig and Melky qualify or did we lure them away? 

    I suspect Melksham and Hibberd left, at least in part, because of the supplements issue. I was trying to point out that others leaving suggests that there might also be other factors in play leading to players - including possibly Ryder, Melksham and Hibberd - leaving Essendon. 

    Or, to put it another way, assuming Ryder, Melksham and Hibberd left solely because of the supplements issue might leave other problems at Essendon buried from view.

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    Talking about Essendon not about Ruckmen

    Although I really respect Ryder

    I often think that club has a Sheedy Curse just as big if not bigger than the Curse of Norm Smith

    Sheedy stayed much too long and his win at all cost attitude poisoned the Club

    Which resulted in the need to try to cheat to achieve success 

     

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    I thought the Ryder interview was great.  He is a real statesman.  A class act!  I disagree that Jackson is in the top three ruckman.  He has a hitout win rate of 35.6%  and 2.2% hitout to advantage and 2.4 clearances per game.  Ryder goes at 53.5% hitout win rate and 7.2% to advantage. Paddy has similar clearance stats to Jackson. Gawn has a hitout win rate of 52.5% and goes at 8.2% hitouts to advantage and get an average 5 clearances per game.  Toby Nankervis goes at 51.3% hitout win rate, 7.6% hit out to advantage and 3.5 clearances.  Sean Darcy goes at 49.9% hitout win rate, 9.9% to advantage and 4.9 clearances.

    I'd go 1.Gawn, 2.Darcy, 3. Ryder right now if you are looking at the complete package (marking, disposals, impact on the game). Nankervis is a warrior and is a great leader for the Tigers.  He'd be next.

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    5 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

    Conversely, Brodie Grundy has dropped right off (even before he was injured).

    Who's he?

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    Lyon's fashion idol is obviously the late Happy Hammond.

    Only older members of this group will understand that reference.

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    25 minutes ago, Winners at last said:

    Lyon's fashion idol is obviously the late Happy Hammond.

    Only older members of this group will understand that reference.

    The hat?

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    Good interview.  I think they said he's 35 now.

    He did say he could beat Jackson in the ruck, but couldn't match him around the ground.  Jackson is still learning his craft.

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