Its hardly a new conundrum. It boils down to is a strong offence better than a strong defence. We have seen this battle of strategies across all sports in the modern era. 

To beat the Demons, a lot of things need to go right, particularly if you have an offensive game-plan. It is the right game plan to beat us, but requires near perfect execution. 

18 hours ago, jnrmac said:

But do we have a Plan B?

 

Don't need one...

Our Plan B is  " don't panic ", then return to Plan A.

40 minutes ago, CYB said:

Its hardly a new conundrum. It boils down to is a strong offence better than a strong defence. We have seen this battle of strategies across all sports in the modern era. 

To beat the Demons, a lot of things need to go right, particularly if you have an offensive game-plan. It is the right game plan to beat us, but requires near perfect execution. 

I think this is spot on.

Barring us having a bad day where our intensity and system fall away, I think the only way that a team will beat us - and beat us convincingly - is playing a near perfect offensive game with speed and precision. If a team can maintain that style of play against us for four quarters, they're every chance of knocking us off.

But therein lies the problem for opposition teams. To do that consistently without turnover is incredibly difficult, particularly with our constant pressure. And if a team tries to do that, they risk us carving them up on the rebound and scoring heavily against them. 

So it really is a catch 22 when playing against us. Go fast and you might get us, but you risk causing a turnover and getting punished by us going the other way. Go slow and try to control the ball and we'll set up, cause a turnover and either score or lock the ball in our forward half. 

That's not to say that we're not going to drop a game, but at this stage, I really think it's going to come from our own faults rather than the opposition's strengths.

Gee its a good time to be a Dees fan.

Edited April 29, 20222 yr by demoncat

22 hours ago, Demonland said:

THE THREE KEYS TO SUCCESS AGAINST THE DEES

1. BRING THE HEAT

2. EMPLOY STAY-AT-HOME FORWARDS

3. CONTROL THE AIR (OR AT LEAST BREAK-EVEN)

ALSO WORTH IMPLEMENTING …

• LOWER THE EYES GOING FORWARD
• GENERATE SCORES FROM FORWARD-HALF INTERCEPTS
• SHIFT THE DEFENCE
• OUTSIDE THE CENTRE SQUARE
• USE A TAGGER
• FISH OUT GAWN AND JACKSON
• PUT PLAYERS IN THE GUN

 

tl;dr 

"Score more than them."

21 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

brenton sanderson's strategy on sen:

• play two rucks, have one 'tag' steven may to stop him playing his intercept game
• tag petracca
• play your six forwards rather than rolling one up to stoppages
• high pressure forward approach so you can't go 'too tall' (which seems to contradict his first point)
• one mid rolls back to play a 'back 7'
• embrace 'chaos football'

basically says every team needs to go AGAINST their own game plan in order to beat us

said that we're ahead of the pack, then the bears, then a crop of 5-6 teams

I think the view on taking May's marking strength away with a rigid one on one approach makes sense but you'd need another "Fritsch like" marking forward and Charlie Cameron around the contest.

Or you could just hope the Dee's have an " off " day when you play them...especially if it's the Prelim.

Edited April 29, 20222 yr by IRW

As an opposition, the real key is beating Melbourne is centre clearances, which is harder said than done. This is our main vulnerability due to the 6-6-6 rule.

I would hard tag Oliver at the clearances and then put a defensive runner on Petracca post clearance to try and stop him kicking goals.

With ball movement, the key is to have players behind the ball and introduce more randomness.

I would attack from the backline on the Langdon wing or down the corridor. The ideas is to force us to counter attack on the fast plays on the Brayshaw/Jordon wing (which reduces the damage of the turnovers).

I would encourage the use of torps or mongrels into a congested forward 50 or when Max is down the line.

Slow the game down (with numbers behind the ball) if ahead on the scoreboard and speed it up (by kicking more torps down the middle) if behind.

It's wonderful watching us live seeing the structure how we setup behind the ball.  

You're either winning the ball back and kicking down one wing where Lever/Gawn line up.

Or going through the centre where you most likely have Petty and May with one of Jackson/Weed/TMac there as support.

Then watching our kick in structure.  The first kick long to back flank is to two of Gawn/Jacksona and Weid/Brown/Tmac.  Then the next kick down the line is to two of Weid/Jackson/Brown for example

No one will beat us in the air.

I still believe the only way teams will beat us this year is the play us in the wet which might reduce our strength there.
 

 

5 minutes ago, Demonland said:

 

So annoying that  the media only talks about us is how X or Y team has shown how to beat us.

No mention whatsoever of our struggles with COVID, like it was nothing. Bit frustrating considering we are the benchmark and reigning premiers 😤

6 minutes ago, ElDiablo14 said:

So annoying that  the media only talks about us is how X or Y team has shown how to beat us.

No mention whatsoever of our struggles with COVID, like it was nothing. Bit frustrating considering we are the benchmark and reigning premiers 😤

Or the fact that we actually won the game

14 minutes ago, Demonland said:

 

I think we are doomed. 

I could name about 5 things that would help to beat us but I'm certainly not posting them. I want to see a premiership at the G and I won't give an opposition analyst glancing this site a chance of spoiling it.

 

So the 2 biggest ‘weaknesses’ from the weekend were May dragged up the ground, and forward defensive pressure wasn’t as strong? Petty solves one problem, ANB and Kozzie solve the other. 

No need to mention that we won pretty easily but ran out of puff in the last because apparently there’s a virus going round that meant one quarter of our team was out. 

4 minutes ago, ElDiablo14 said:

So annoying that  the media only talks about us is how X or Y team has shown how to beat us.

No mention whatsoever of our struggles with COVID, like it was nothing. Bit frustrating considering we are the benchmark and reigning premiers 😤

Well there isn’t much else left to be said about us given everything that was said was said last year.

So the narrative is now how to remove us from the pedestal. It sucks but I get it. At least we get to hear how good we are… can’t say I get too sick about that.

I dare teams to try and do what Hawthorn tried. They were brave, yes, but also stupid. 9/10 it doesn’t work and you get torched when it doesn’t..

 

I think Mitchell coached really well.  I'm glad the tried a few things with some success (while we still got the win) because it gives our coaches and players some contingencies to work on.  Much rather this than getting our first look in finals.  The likes of Brisbane and Freo may hold things back when they play us in case they want to catch us unawares during the finals - so I we are going to see the challenging tactics from sides not expecting a finals berth like Hawthorn, Collingwood, Adelaide, etc

The tag of Langdon was interesting - I'm not sure if most teams would have a player with Langdon's fitness and speed to go with him all day.  But for the ones that do, we'll have to find other ways which I'm sure we will.

Like when teams tag one of Oliver or Petracca, the other gets off the chain.

As good as the Hawks were - esp early - May had two marks punched out of his hand early on (I think they goaled from both).  Correct call on them and the game is a different story.

And good luck taking on Max - esp when so many 1st choice ruckmen are down at the moment.

On 4/28/2022 at 12:28 PM, Demonland said:

THE THREE KEYS TO SUCCESS AGAINST THE DEES

1. BRING THE HEAT

2. EMPLOY STAY-AT-HOME FORWARDS

3. CONTROL THE AIR (OR AT LEAST BREAK-EVEN)

ALSO WORTH IMPLEMENTING …

• LOWER THE EYES GOING FORWARD
• GENERATE SCORES FROM FORWARD-HALF INTERCEPTS
• SHIFT THE DEFENCE
• OUTSIDE THE CENTRE SQUARE
• USE A TAGGER
• FISH OUT GAWN AND JACKSON
• PUT PLAYERS IN THE GUN

 

1. Bring the Heat

You actually think that will work Sherlock?

I certainly hope the players and coaching staff respect the opposition a lot more than you lot. It's this sort of mindset that meant that we lost to all the bottom 4 teams last year. Let's not get complacent. It's time to get out of this 'first gear' mentality. When the game is up for grabs with 10 mins to go, that isn't by design. And I'm not just talking about the hawks game. I'm referring to Essendon and Gold Coast too. 

2 hours ago, Demonland said:

 

I remember a similar video about Adelaide showing the competition how to beat us last year.

Edited May 1, 20222 yr by John Demonic

10 hours ago, deelusions from afar said:

10 hours ago, deelusions from afar said:

The tag of Langdon was interesting - I'm not sure if most teams would have a player with Langdon's fitness and speed to go with him all day.  But for the ones that do, we'll have to find other ways which I'm sure we will.

 

 

On a discussion show they mentioned that Ed's tag was not so much a run with and spoil but rather a positioning between Ed and the boundary so that he had less space to work in.

I have only watched the replays of the 2nd and 3rd quarters in detail and it seemed to me that, whilst Ed was quieter than usual, his supposed tagger was quieter still and was not so close when Ed did win the ball.

Ed plays his best when close to the boundary. Surely he would be just as effective running through the middle. His speed and ability to offer as an out for his team mates would be just as good. Let's confuse the oppos.

Narrative time, is it? 

This was stale at the back end of 2021 and it’s even staler now. 🫤

Remember how Geelong could beat us in the Prelim by playing Ratagoulea in a ‘three headed monster’ forward line? Or how getting Stef Martin to physically push Max around at centre bounces and clearances would guarantee the win cos Port did it to us in R. 1 2019? How about the other idea about how if Aaron Naughton ran in a certain leading pattern when matched up on Jake Lever that allowed him to launch then we couldn’t defend? 🙄🤔

I’m REALLY getting f<#*ing sick of the lack of respect being shown to our club. Yes, a certain tactical adjustment can help in improving a team’s chances against us. The Stef idea wasn’t completely flawed (but they forgot the big difference between 2019 and 2021 was that we had a different type of ruck we could sub Maxy with), but do any of these self satisfied head wobblers ever consider that A grade talent, maximum pressure over 120 odd minutes, crisp and speedy disposal, supreme fitness and team cohesion might be a factor in rolling us? 🤬

The one time I walked away not spitting absolute chips after a loss last year was when the Crows beat us as they ticked most of those boxes for that one match. It wasn’t because of Matty Nicks coming up with some gimmick to beat us, but because they played as good a game as you will see. Clarry playing the best game of his career and us getting pipped at the post should demonstrate that.

I know Goody won’t use this as motivation as that’s not the type of coach he is. But I REALLY hope that they win another flag to have peanuts like Ross the Boss (who never rated us last year) and Llordo choke on this type of lazy detritus posing as football analysis.

 

Biggest difference for me on the weekend, was we were missing two of our forward half terriers in ANB and Pickett.

Without them there to harass, apply pressure, slow them down and force mistakes, the Hawks seemed to come out of their back half a lot easier. Of course that is going to make life a more difficult for May who either didn't have time to get into best position or got sucked up the ground to try and help cut them off.

^^^

Don't worry about it @Colin B. Flaubert

Take solace in that none, not one of the tactics has worked ie that team has still lost the game.  I don't count the Crows game as a successful strategy altho they won.  And not because the umpire erred.  It is because we were 16 pts up with 8 minutes to go, thought we had it sewn up and forgot to defend the lead.  We handed it to them on a silver platter.  But we learnt plenty, not the least the need to ice games when we have a good lead, as we do in games now.

And ops tactics are unlikely to give them wins because we are very good at adapting to then in games:  Close down a player or an avenue and another pops up.

We will lose when we have a bad day but we won't lose the same way twice.

Media need to do media.  Its all fugazzi!

Edited May 2, 20222 yr by Lucifers Hero

I would rather them (the media) spending time thinking they've cracked the code to beat us...

...than the old talk of you can't trust Melbourne or even worse, basket case Melbourne.

Enjoy!

32 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

^^^

Don't worry about it @Colin B. Flaubert

Take solace in that none, not one of the tactics has worked ie that team has still lost the game.  I don't count the Crows game as a successful strategy altho they won.  And not because the umpire erred.  It is because we were 16 pts up with 8 minutes to go, thought we had it sewn up and forgot to defend the lead.  We handed it to them on a silver platter.  But we learnt plenty, not the least the need to ice games when we have a good lead, as we do in games now.

And ops tactics are unlikely to give them wins because we are very good at adapting to then in games:  Close down a player or an avenue and another pops up.

We will lose when we have a bad day but we won't lose the same way twice.

Media need to do media.  Its all fugazzi!

I wish we would ice games using more short kicks. I get there is risk of a turnover but I think we should back our skills a bit more. We are conceding too many late goals.

47 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

^^^

Don't worry about it @Colin B. Flaubert

Take solace in that none, not one of the tactics has worked ie that team has still lost the game.  I don't count the Crows game as a successful strategy altho they won.  And not because the umpire erred.  It is because we were 16 pts up with 8 minutes to go and forgot to defend.  We handed it to them on a silver platter.  But we learnt the need to ice games when we have a good lead, as we do now.

And they are unlikely to because we are very good at adapting to opps tactics in games.  Close down a player or an avenue and another pops up.

Media need to do media.  Its all fugazzi!

I also get a bit annoyed in how the commentators (Tim Lane, who is generally an excellent caller, was the worst on this) carried on at the peak of Geelong’s golden era (‘07-‘10). Most weeks, you would have thought the opposite team’s captain would have been better off going to the centre of the ground before the bounce to negotiate the terms of their surrender rather than toss the coin so fawning was the commentary over Geelong. You didn’t hear one sixteenth of the talking down we get about them (nor Richmond for that matter).

Edited May 2, 20222 yr by Colin B. Flaubert