Jump to content

The very, very contentious 50 for Dissent Rule

picket fence
in Melbourne Demons

Featured Replies

Fear and loathing are not respect. No matter how hard you try, respect cannot be forced on someone against their will.

Handing out 50's for such frivilous reasons as we have seen in this round is certain to increase a negative view of umpires as thin-skinned crybabies.

They absolutely MUST find a middle ground here or this will backfire severely.

  • Quote
    • Like 2
    • Love 1
     
    43 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

    I am very, very torn on this. 

    I am 100% supportive of both the need to drastically improve the way umpires are treated by players, and the basic concept of legislating to make it happen. 

    But a blanket rule that says “arms out is 50” just doesn’t fit. Are we saying that in no circumstances, ever, should a footy player raise his/her arms in response to a free?

    if they do it whilst mouthing off (eg Clarry this weekend, from reports), fine, pay 50. If they do it whilst walking towards the umpire as if to intimidate, pay 50 (eg Holman and Hewett this weekend). But if they’re doing it in the context of a lack of understanding of a decision, in downtime (eg Andrews and Mitchell), that IMO is not dissent nor behaviour we need to eradicate. It’s a player trying to understand a decision. 

    One thing that we will probably all agree on ... we don't need another adjudication with grey area attached

    So whatever the ruling is, it needs to be clear cut ... and zero tolerance eliminates doubt

    And it looks like the AFL could double down on the ruling as well so the chat about the ruling will continue

    Edited by Macca

  • Quote
    • Like 2
    17 minutes ago, Jjrogan said:

    It was a bad decision pay the free. But stiff shizzle. People make mistakes.  It was the correct decision to pay 50.  There's a difference.  

    How many times in history has an umpire overturned his or another's decision based on viewing the replay? (Not video replay). 

    Its a dissenting act to ask an umpire to look at a replay.  Mitchell nodded his head when told. I'm tipping he wont do it again.

    The old "umpires don't overturn their calls" is the biggest strawman. Of course they won't but they may be more inclined to be skeptical next time Hawkins takes a dive and not pay the free, theyve also been known to pay the square up the other way.

  • Quote
    •  

    Very ironic that this is coming from Brad Scott who, when in the coaches box, was notorious for waving his arms and dropping his jaw when decisions didn’t go his way.

  • Quote
    • Like 6
    • Haha 1
    2 hours ago, chook fowler said:

    Very ironic that this is coming from Brad Scott who, when in the coaches box, was notorious for waving his arms and dropping his jaw when decisions didn’t go his way.

    Must now be seen to support his twin bro; the AFL rule maker.

    Edited by Lucifers Hero

  • Quote
    • Like 1
    • Sad 1

    It's a farce.

    A 50-metre penalty should only be given if a player mouths off or is aggressive in their demeanour towards an umpire.

    Raising one's arms or shaking one's head is not worthy of a 50 metre penalty. 

    It is a poor reflection on Brad Scott and the umpires department that this has been so inconsistently applied and poorly interpreted. 

     

     

     

  • Quote
    • Like 5
    • Thanks 1
    • Angry 1
     
    • Author
    11 hours ago, Axis of Bob said:

    The players will learn quickly.

    Cultural change across the game will happen more slowly but it has to start somewhere.

    Its not Cultural change, its Social engineering at its most dangerous. Taking the emotion out of the game hurts the fabric of the game. If thats what the AFL want I dont agree with the way the rule is now being interpreted. Punish umpire verbal abuse but never ever hands out.

  • Quote
    • Like 8

    When new rules are brought in the umpires tend to go overboard with their interpretation and the AFL then should to step in and get this rule right because it is making a farce of the game when a umpire abuse is the reason a team wins games when a player throws his head back or raise his arm without any verbal comments.

    Players are human beings who get frustrated when the lose a contest, so long as players don't rush up to the umpire in a threatening manner or verbally it should be ok.

  • Quote
    • Like 1
    • Love 1

    To think that our own Tommo was pinged in the practice match vs. Carlton for ‘laughing at the umpire’ and making him feel ‘belittled’. Relative to some of this round’s penalties, he should’ve been given 50 and fined $2000 and a prison sentence (for good measure).🙃

  • Quote

    Players need to keep their mouths shut when it comes to the umpires. I will 100% support a zero-tolerance policy in this regard

    Trying to police reactions is futile and counter productive. Frustration, disappointment etc will always be apparent in a players demeanour. You can’t fake or curtail it. It will be written all over their face.

    Rugby Union is as an example where referees are respected no matter what. And it’s a sport full of interpretations. Players will shake their head and show obvious disappointment when decisions go against them. But they never back chat. I think this is the standard we should aim for

  • Quote
    • Like 10
    9 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

    You've got to go hard to make cultural change. I don't like where the rule is at the moment, but I also understand where it's come from, where it's going, and that it will settle in eventually and do it's job.

    I hated the 666 rule and the stand rule when they first came in, but now that they've settled into the game I think they've made it better and more exciting.

    Something had to change with how umpires were treated.

    Also - "Yet again"? What? I didn't even mention 'arm raising'.

    My use of the term 'arm raising' was just shorthand to describe reactions to an umpire's decision or non-decision that is non-abusive.  You have been consistently using the term abuse to cover any reaction at all by a player.   Hence my 'yet again'.    One can disagree without being abusive in life and on the sports field too. 

  • Quote
    • Love 1

    Aggression and frustration are very easy to differentiate. Walking towards and umpire with arms out is different than appealing while on the the mark. 

  • Quote
    • Like 3

    The arm raising is in the 'dissent' part of the rules rather than the 'abuse' part. 

    'Abuse' is relatively clear.

    'Dissent' needs to be defined, communicated and then applied consistently. 

    Laughingly, the AFL term for penalising Andrews, Oliver, Mitchell et al and not other and more demonstrative arm raising/glaring at the umpire this weekend, is saying it was 'slippage'. Grammatically correct but it just looks like more AFL excuses. 

    LOL, AFL call it for what it is:  The 'dissent' rule isn't working and its application is badly affecting the 'optics' of the game both the on-field play and off-field enjoyment/perceptions. 

    The mistake isn't that of umpires and to say it is 'slippage' is making it their issue.  The problem is lack of definition and communication by the AFL to umpires and to players. 

    Edited by Lucifers Hero

  • Quote
    • Like 1

    8 hours ago, Jjrogan said:

    It was a bad decision pay the free. But stiff shizzle. People make mistakes.  It was the correct decision to pay 50.  There's a difference.  

    How many times in history has an umpire overturned his or another's decision based on viewing the replay? (Not video replay). 

    Its a dissenting act to ask an umpire to look at a replay.  Mitchell nodded his head when told. I'm tipping he wont do it again.

    Okay. So I'll give you an analogy. A bad one I'll admit but something akin to what you're saying.

    Son comes into the room and poops on the floor. Father says "son, that was wrong, I'm going to rub your nose in it to teach you a lesson!"

    Son says "no Father, don't tell me what is and isn't wrong, I'm now going to rub your nose in it"

    See. Now we've got a situation where umpires are doing doo doos all over the place, then whenever a player says maybe you should stop defecating all over the place the umpire says "no, Don't tell me I'm stinking it up! Now I'm going to rub your nose in it so as to teach you a lesson."

    Clearly the game has turned to sh*t.

  • Quote

    My favourite

     

    chris%20scott_1550018089.gif

     

    Umpire abuse?

    Edited by Lucifers Hero

  • Quote
    • Like 3
    • Haha 3
    5 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

    it's going to turn into a game of 50m rules

    will need a new name

    50 metre penalties will win the Coleman Medal this season. 

  • Quote
    • Like 1
    • Haha 1

    Umpires dont deserved to be abused. (well some of them).

    Worst case scenario try having a 25 m penalty as well.

    Big difference to a player being flattened off the ball and a player throwing up his arms in frustration over a bad call.

    Edited by leave it to deever

  • Quote
    • Like 2

    1 hour ago, BDA said:

    Players need to keep their mouths shut when it comes to the umpires. I will 100% support a zero-tolerance policy in this regard

    Trying to police reactions is futile and counter productive. Frustration, disappointment etc will always be apparent in a players demeanour. You can’t fake or curtail it. It will be written all over their face.

    Rugby Union is as an example where referees are respected no matter what. And it’s a sport full of interpretations. Players will shake their head and show obvious disappointment when decisions go against them. But they never back chat. I think this is the standard we should aim for

    Yep when the ball is live in play in Rugby there's plenty happening and the refs don't start plucking penalties for players reactions. Then if the game is stopped the ref will interact with offending players or the captain and that interaction is always done with respect for the official.

    I think the player on the mark for a set shot can have some interaction with the umpire and it doesn't have to be as formal as rugby as long as it's respectful. The only other player speaking to umps should be the captain, but the umps should just tell all the other players he's not listening, rather than be looking to punish them ala the Hawthorn one yesterday.

    I can't believe they've made such a mess of this.

  • Quote
    •  
    16 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

    My favourite

     

    chris%20scott_1550018089.gif

     

    Umpire abuse?

    In all seriousness, this is a legitimate question that should be asked. If the goal is to change the culture of the sport regarding treatment of umpires from the top down, then senior coaches are just as responsible as the players. Chris Scott should be heavily fined every time he gets busted doing this.

  • Quote
    • Like 4
    7 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

    Umpires dont deserved to be abused. (well some of them).

    Worst case scenario try having a 25 m penalty as well.

    Big difference to a player being flattened off the ball and a player throwing up his arms in frustration over a bad call.

    An excellent point. 

  • Quote
    • Like 1

    Join the conversation

    You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

    Guest
    Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
    Reply to this topic...
    Go to topic listing

    Featured Content

    • CASEY: Collingwood

      It was freezing cold at Mission Whitten Stadium where only the brave came out in the rain to watch a game that turned out to be as miserable as the weather.
      The Casey Demons secured their third consecutive victory, earning the four premiership points and credit for defeating a highly regarded Collingwood side, but achieved little else. Apart perhaps from setting the scene for Monday’s big game at the MCG and the Ice Challenge that precedes it.
      Neither team showcased significant skill in the bleak and greasy conditions, at a location that was far from either’s home territory. Even the field umpires forgot where they were and experienced a challenging evening, but no further comment is necessary.

        • Thanks
      • 4 replies
      Demonland

    • NON-MFC: Round 13

      Follow all the action from every Round 13 clash excluding the Dees as the 2025 AFL Premiership Season rolls on. With Melbourne playing in the final match of the round on King's Birthday, all eyes turn to the rest of the competition. Who are you tipping to win? And more importantly, which results best serve the Demons’ finals aspirations? Join the discussion and keep track of the matches that could shape the ladder and impact our run to September.

        • Thanks
      • 216 replies
      Demonland

    • PREVIEW: Collingwood

      Having convincingly defeated last year’s premier and decisively outplayed the runner-up with 8.2 in the final quarter, nothing epitomized the Melbourne Football Club’s performance more than its 1.12 final half, particularly the eight consecutive behinds in the last term, against a struggling St Kilda team in the midst of a dismal losing streak. Just when stability and consistency were anticipated within the Demon ranks, they delivered a quintessential performance marked by instability and ill-conceived decisions, with the most striking aspect being their inaccuracy in kicking for goal, which suggested a lack of preparation (instead of sleeping in their hotel in Alice, were they having a night on the turps) rather than a well-rested team. Let’s face it - this kicking disease that makes them look like raw amateurs is becoming a millstone around the team’s neck.

        • Thanks
      • 1 reply
      Demonland

    • CASEY: Sydney

      The Casey Demons were always expected to emerge victorious in their matchup against the lowly-ranked Sydney Swans at picturesque Tramway Oval, situated in the shadows of the SCG in Moore Park. They dominated the proceedings in the opening two and a half quarters of the game but had little to show for it. This was primarily due to their own sloppy errors in a low-standard game that produced a number of crowded mauls reminiscent of the rugby game popular in old Sydney Town. However, when the Swans tired, as teams often do when they turn games into ugly defensive contests, Casey lifted the standard of its own play and … it was off to the races. Not to nearby Randwick but to a different race with an objective of piling on goal after goal on the way to a mammoth victory. At the 25-minute mark of the third quarter, the Demons held a slender 14-point lead over the Swans, who are ahead on the ladder of only the previous week's opposition, the ailing Bullants. Forty minutes later, they had more than fully compensated for the sloppiness of their earlier play with a decisive 94-point victory, that culminated in a rousing finish which yielded thirteen unanswered goals. Kicks hit their targets, the ball found itself going through the middle and every player made a contribution.

        • Thanks
        • Like
      • 1 reply
      Demonland

    • REPORT: St. Kilda

      Hands up if you thought, like me, at half-time in yesterday’s game at TIO Traeger Park, Alice Springs that Melbourne’s disposal around the ground and, in particular, its kicking inaccuracy in front of the goals couldn’t get any worse. Well, it did. And what’s even more damning for the Melbourne Football Club is that the game against St Kilda and its resurgence from the bottomless pit of its miserable start to the season wasn’t just lost through poor conversion for goal but rather in the 15 minutes when the entire team went into a slumber and was mugged by the out-of-form Saints. Their six goals two behinds (one goal less than the Demons managed for the whole game) weaved a path of destruction from which they were unable to recover. Ross Lyon’s astute use of pressure to contain the situation once they had asserted their grip on the game, and Melbourne’s self-destructive wastefulness, assured that outcome. The old adage about the insanity of repeatedly doing something and expecting a different result, was out there. Two years ago, the score line in Melbourne’s loss to the Giants at this same ground was 5 goals 15 behinds - a ratio of one goal per four scoring shots - was perfectly replicated with yesterday’s 7 goals 21 behinds. 
      This has been going on for a while and opens up a number of questions. I’ll put forward a few that come to mind from this performance. The obvious first question is whether the club can find a suitable coach to instruct players on proper kicking techniques or is this a skill that can no longer be developed at this stage of the development of our playing group? Another concern is the team's ability to counter an opponent's dominance during a run on as exemplified by the Saints in the first quarter. Did the Demons underestimate their opponents, considering St Kilda's goals during this period were scored by relatively unknown forwards? Furthermore, given the modest attendance of 6,721 at TIO Traeger Park and the team's poor past performances at this venue, is it prudent to prioritize financial gain over potentially sacrificing valuable premiership points by relinquishing home ground advantage, notwithstanding the cultural significance of the team's connection to the Red Centre? 

        • Thanks
      • 4 replies
      Demonland

    • PREGAME: Collingwood

      After a disappointing loss in Alice Springs the Demons return to the MCG to take on the Magpies in the annual King's Birthday Big Freeze for MND game. Who comes in and who goes out?

        • Thanks
      • 528 replies
      Demonland
    View All