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The very, very contentious 50 for Dissent Rule


picket fence

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On 4/17/2022 at 10:01 AM, Lord Nev said:

Do you know for certain that's what it was for? TMac was acting like a pork chop all game, sooking about every umpire decision, I reckon it may have been cumulative after a few warnings.

 

That one was against Oliver, not Lever if we're thinking of the same one.

Don't love the rule, but it's 'settled' somewhat since first coming in and will eventually find it's place.

u r spot on Lord re TMac - he's constantly blaming - its terrible look for teammates, club and he gets pinged as he should.

Jus cos Hawkins gets away with stuff thats not going to help us when we get into a tight game.

Hawkins, who i dont like, a pro at working the system of officials - TMac an amateur.

We dont respect the game enuff - Bjorn Borg said he trained like he was playing - so always disciplined. 

we are undisciplined even during runaway wins.

so when it comes to a tight match TMac and others will b getting pinged and we will lose and we will blame.

AFL is an unfair game to interpret - if you dont want to get pinged dont be disrespectful -

at work would u want a peer to give u the TMac moan?

 

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Players can't remonstrate but crowds and the public can throw as much filth and abuse their way. Ok got it.  It's my right to be a sook and act like an 8 yr old when things dont go my way!

The frustration 50m is silly, but imo the real reason why umpring and refereeing is down across all sports and all codes is the respect they get in general for doing a job. 

It's not player abuse that turns them off.  

Edited by Jjrogan
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The level of respect for umpires has diminished further because of this rule and it's not their fault. As usual, the AFL has decided to put out a very small fire with gasoline and our on field officials are being made to look ridiculous as a result.

It's been suggested that on field abuse is a driver behind the shortfall of some 6000 umpires across the game so we need to "set an example" at AFL level. What a load of bollocks. From my observations, at junior and local level, the issue of umpire abuse has always been on the other side of the boundary, particularly parents of players. Penalising Harris Andrews for raising his arms does nothing to counter this.

I'd like to see some empirical data supporting the theory that on field abuse is deterring significant numbers from taking up or continuing with umpiring. Data, not focus group driven claptrap.

I'd like to know what the AFL has done to attract, train & retain umpires and junior & local level

I'd like to know what the AFL is doing in terms of education regarding respect of umpires at local and junior level

I suspect it's SFA.

In the meantime. umpires at AFL level are made to look like mugs because of knee jerk rules that don't consider consequences. And the footy public - the life-blood of the sport - are being further disenfranchised by what's happening to "our" game.

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Thing that annoys me is when your at the game and a free has been given.
Like it or not every-one has a fair idea what it was for.
Then the whistle bows again and there's a 50m penalty for some unknown reason cause a player muttered something to the umpire.

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On 4/17/2022 at 9:55 AM, Whispering_Jack said:

The problem is that there’s so much scope for interpretation and inconsistency. The examples above are a case in point.

And that is the AFL’s reason for bringing this rule in - it’s to get fans talking about it .To “promote” the game.Many other rules are also open to interpretation as well .Footy is becoming a frustrating game to enjoy. I am thinking I might cancel my membership of the MFC.And don’t get me talking about the “entertainment” before the game and at half time !

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18 minutes ago, Go the Biff said:

The level of respect for umpires has diminished further because of this rule and it's not their fault. As usual, the AFL has decided to put out a very small fire with gasoline and our on field officials are being made to look ridiculous as a result.

It's been suggested that on field abuse is a driver behind the shortfall of some 6000 umpires across the game so we need to "set an example" at AFL level. What a load of bollocks. From my observations, at junior and local level, the issue of umpire abuse has always been on the other side of the boundary, particularly parents of players. Penalising Harris Andrews for raising his arms does nothing to counter this.

I'd like to see some empirical data supporting the theory that on field abuse is deterring significant numbers from taking up or continuing with umpiring. Data, not focus group driven claptrap.

I'd like to know what the AFL has done to attract, train & retain umpires and junior & local level

I'd like to know what the AFL is doing in terms of education regarding respect of umpires at local and junior level

I suspect it's SFA.

In the meantime. umpires at AFL level are made to look like mugs because of knee jerk rules that don't consider consequences. And the footy public - the life-blood of the sport - are being further disenfranchised by what's happening to "our" game.

Like your post GtB but we don't know for sure what the 50 metre penalties are paid for ... we can't necessarily hear what a disgruntled player (or a player in the vicinity) is actually saying

The waving of the arms may not be the reason as to why the penalty is applied but if that is the only reason (waving of arms), then I'm in agreement with others that the penalty doesn't fit the misdemeanour

But we don't know for sure what is said and that's not likely to change as the players aren't mic'd up

And as Axis pointed out in a post prior to yours, the players will fall into line much like they have with regards to standing still on the mark (allowing for the odd indiscretion)

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39 minutes ago, Macca said:

Like your post GtB but we don't know for sure what the 50 metre penalties are paid for ... we can't necessarily hear what a disgruntled player (or a player in the vicinity) is actually saying

The waving of the arms may not be the reason as to why the penalty is applied but if that is the only reason (waving of arms), then I'm in agreement with others that the penalty doesn't fit the misdemeanour

But we don't know for sure what is said and that's not likely to change as the players aren't mic'd up

And as Axis pointed out in a post prior to yours, the players will fall into line much like they have with regards to standing still on the mark (allowing for the odd indiscretion)

Hey @Macca,

I used that example because the video / audio shows clearly the umpires reason for the 50. Unambiguous and ridiculous.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/arms-out-thats-50/video/5f06989d6702be6e4c584a75b9742873

Individual examples aren't really the point of my post though

 

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6 minutes ago, Go the Biff said:

Hey @Macca,

I used that example because the video / audio shows clearly the umpires reason for the 50. Unambiguous and ridiculous.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/arms-out-thats-50/video/5f06989d6702be6e4c584a75b9742873

Individual examples aren't really the point of my post though

 

What a farce.

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we see a lot of this in other facets of life

a complete over-reaction to a problem which confuses and annoys the heck out of everyone

and the original "message" is mangled and lost

rule interpretations like this are having the opposite effect with umpires ending up with less respect not more

who'd have thunk the afl could [censored] this up so badly?

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6 minutes ago, Go the Biff said:

Hey @Macca,

I used that example because the video / audio shows clearly the umpires reason for the 50. Unambiguous and ridiculous.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/arms-out-thats-50/video/5f06989d6702be6e4c584a75b9742873

Individual examples aren't really the point of my post though

 

I was talking in general terms looking ahead and involving all the teams & games.  Not just our team, GtB

In principle, the players will end up clamming up so we shouldn't see many 50's given.  I reckon it would be harder to stand still on the mark than to not remonstrate and nearly every player knows to stand still on the mark (now)

The Lever incident and subsequent 50 stemmed from a ruling in favour of the GWS player (a ticky-touchwood high contact free kick that I've never agreed with)

High contact should be paid for deliberate targeted actions only, otherwise players will exploit the grey area of high contact frees (and they have done, for decades)

So if that Lever incident is play on, there's no remonstration

The around the neck ruling (or high contact) is a blight on the game so much so that many now know how to milk high contact.  Players cheat and they are allowed to get away with it (by the rulemakers, not the umpires) More than 10 years ago I said the exact same thing (here)

But that's just my view.  Most disagree on incidental high contact ... they want to leave the rule as it is.  Therefore, the punters have to live with the consequences of ticky-touchwood high contact free kicks (and the subsequent frustrations that come with it)

I might add that deliberate high contact is obvious which can and should remain reportable (much as it is with regards to League & Union ... incidental high contact is plan on with those sports)

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TWSNBN are so bad that they even they got two Free Kicks against them. Presume umpires are going to treat them the same as other teams now.....given up on trying to get them wins. The new pets now are Fox's Saints and spitting Carlton.

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20 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Watched the replay.  3rd qtr.  Hill slips into Levers arm. Lever puts his hands on his head. May does a very quick shake of the head and is confused why it’s 50. Oliver is seen to slightly raise his hands in a somewhat questioning manner.  “50. Umpire dissent” .  Umpire 9 Stevic proclaims.  In Summary - Matt Stevic is a tool.  That happened countless other times by both sides last night and again today in Blues v Port but no penalty.  Dissent should be saved for actually persistent questioning verbally or through an excessive physical remonstrating action.  Stevic got it wrong again.  

That was the mistake of the century. Stevic is trigger happy. Must have been under instructions to adjudicate (and that is what they are supposed to be doing, not hampering a game or a contest) in favour, more often, in the direction of the MFC opposition so that a whitewash is not continued. The example was pure Krappe.

 

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Stevie & ump 34 were both poor!

A few changes I would like to see from AFL on totally different topics:

- change 50m distance to 30m as penalty

- umpires be consistent re talking back on frees, at moment it’s a joke

- allow fans to turn up to ground and get ticket, sit with as many mates as you like, vs …. Ticketek which is a pain in the ring! (I particularly feel bad for older people who struggle with technology)

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1 minute ago, Demon Disciple said:

Just been said during 1/2 time break that AFL HQ are ticking off the Harris Andrew’s arms out 50 and want the umps to pay more of them. FMD.Talk about putting the umps on a pedestal and above the game 🤬

as i predicted

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Is it dissent/umpire disrespect to call for a free when the umpire has ruled there was none?  A ball comes off a Hawthorn player's boot and goes out.  Umpire calls for a throw in, but Geelong player takes the ball and steps back to take position for a DOB free.  Obviously disagreeing with the umpire's decision.

In fact the AFL could argue that any indication that a free should be paid to a player's team is disrespecting the umpire or seeking to bully him.

Edited by sue
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Hawkins at it again.
Have a look at this disgrace.
A fine isn't enough for staging.
And then the equally if not more so disgraceful 50.

https://www.facebook.com/watch?v=374130997931676

Edited by Fork 'em
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Talked about this OTC. Ralph said the AFL said if a player puts his arms out in the direction of the ump this should be a 50. So all the missed ones they showed such as Hewitt were mistakes. 

im lost for words. You can’t stop yourself in the heat of the moment especially in finals. How do the afl create these issues? Just get rid of dissent you morons!!

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49 minutes ago, Fork 'em said:

Hawkins at it again.
Have a look at this disgrace.
A fine isn't enough for staging.
And then the equally if not more so disgraceful 50.

https://www.facebook.com/watch?v=374130997931676

wasn't just the staging, his hand hits the hawks player's face

and we've talked before about hawkins wandering arms/hands

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Joh Ralph reported on OTC that the AFL have endorsed the decisions paid as correct and the (dozens of...) ones not paid have been errors by umpires and explained as "slippage"

It's embarrassing for the AFL to be backing in a rule where only a few examples are being "correctly" umpired and the vast majority being ignored (and accepted as common sense by the whole football community)

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Agree Robbo right on the money..

IMO. This translates to..

AFL PLEASE PAY ATTENTION or risk losing both the fabric of the game and most importantly

THE PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT IT

Edited by picket fence
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