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The very, very contentious 50 for Dissent Rule


picket fence

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I've never had a problem with the umpires - insanely difficult job and more grey areas than most sports in the world.
Yes, decisions are frustrating but, for the most part, it's swings and roundabouts.

This rule rule however is a complete disaster and has the potential to make the gap and animosity between players, fans and umpires even worse (if it hasn't already).  Players must respect umpires and there should be strict penalties enforced for those who don't (Toby Greene).  Umpire abuse was already a reportable offense and could result in a free kick in other years; enforce the rules that are already on the books.

To hear on the mics an umpire describe two players 40m away, raising their hands in the air as 'abuse' is bewildering and completely inappropriate.  

 

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4 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

The players will learn quickly.

Cultural change across the game will happen more slowly but it has to start somewhere.

Learn what??

Don't put your arms out? OK. What will that accomplish? What problem does that solve?

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15 minutes ago, Chook said:

Never agreed with Robbo more in my life. The AFL has to back down.

Same. Disappointed where Gary Lyon went with it. But at least Robbo had the balls to call it as it is and the AFL have to back down for the good of the game. 

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4 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

The players will learn quickly.

Cultural change across the game will happen more slowly but it has to start somewhere.

Learn what though? To become absolute robots? Is that really what we want? 
 

We’ve added so many rules to try to free up the movement in the game and get scoring and skill back in to the game. Players like Gawn, Petracca and Pickett bring joy and excitement to the game, it’s why we watch.

Part of players expressing themselves has to be frustration after a free kick. That’s human and normal.

A clamp down at abuse should be aimed at abuse. At the moment it’s a clamp down on putting your arms up. Rather than letting the umpires call it how they see it and use their judgment they’ve turned them in to the ‘arms out’ police. 

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10 hours ago, Axis of Bob said:

Players will learn. 

And then, much, much, much later, supporters finally will too.

There is a culture of umpire abuse in AFL football at all levels. It's not only accepted but often encouraged as 'passion'. Umpires are scapegoats because there will always be bad decisions in 2 hours of chaos. It needs to stop.

At lower levels of football many teams are having to sacrifice a player to umpire the game .... and those players nearly always say how much more difficult it is than they thought it would be. I suspect they also come out of it far more respectful of umpires.

Here, here!!  A of B. Well said. It has been open slather on umpires for far too long, and the reaction to my original posting on here was sadly all to predictable. Clearly there are many Demonlanders who consider umpire abuse as a blood sport. Fortunately, the game’s powers that be have belatedly disagreed. The game will be far better for these modifications to the rules, particularly when everyone gets used to them.

l seem to remember similar outcry when the out of bounds on the full rule was bought in, the centre square rule, and more recently the 6:6:6 rule. Now that they have been in place for a while, very few question them. So it will be once these new interpretations have been around for a while, although there will always be some who resist any sort of change. Such is life!

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I am happy with the spotlight on the umpires because it has been atrocious for the last few years. The AFL needs to do a major overhaul in this area including the MRO,  AFL tribunal and invest more in technology and it’s place in helping umpires officiate the game.

I support the idea of It turning into a full time profession supported with a proper academy for the up and coming. When they are subject to similar standards and expectations (and not a PT weekend job) there will be a noticeable improvement in the consistent and fair adjudication.
 

I even have a purpose statement ready for the new dept… ‘We are irrelevant and should not be noticed’. Achieve that and we can stop this debate once and for all. 

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4 minutes ago, Dees2014 said:

.. Clearly there are many Demonlanders who consider umpire abuse as a blood sport. 

I don’t recall anyone here supporting umpire abuse.   I disagree with you on this. My arms are wide out and I’m rolling my eyes.  I hope you don’t feel abused. 

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19 minutes ago, Chook said:

Learn what??

Don't put your arms out? OK. What will that accomplish? What problem does that solve?

The players will learn to quickly accept the decision and move on. 

That will accomplish the demonstration to the public that players should accept the decision of umpires.

Kids who grow up knowing that complaining about umpiring is destructive (rather than 'passionate' or 'not robotic') will treat umpires differently than their parents and grandparents did/do. They'll think that complaining about umpires is something that old people people do because they 'don't get it'.

The change will take time but it has to start somewhere. 

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42 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Agree Robbo right on the money..

IMO. This translates to..

AFL PLEASE PAY ATTENTION or risk losing both the fabric of the game and most importantly

THE PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT IT

Get woke ... Go Broke.

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17 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

The players will learn to quickly accept the decision and move on. 

That will accomplish the demonstration to the public that players should accept the decision of umpires.

Kids who grow up knowing that complaining about umpiring is destructive (rather than 'passionate' or 'not robotic') will treat umpires differently than their parents and grandparents did/do. They'll think that complaining about umpires is something that old people people do because they 'don't get it'.

The change will take time but it has to start somewhere. 

And legislating against one particular body action (arms out) will fully accomplish that goal? Great! I love that it's so easy!!!

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2 minutes ago, Chook said:

And legislating against one particular body action (arms out) will fully accomplish that goal? Great! I love that it's so easy!!!

That is a ridiculous and reductive comment.

Arms out is one action among a range of things that an umpire can penalise. Giving the umpire the finger or telling them they are a moron are also actions that can be penalised. The intent is the same and the message is the same .... accept the decision of the umpire and stop complaining.

Just because you've spent your life complaining about umpiring doesn't mean that juniors have to follow in those footsteps.

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4 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

That is a ridiculous and reductive comment.

Arms out is one action among a range of things that an umpire can penalise. Giving the umpire the finger or telling them they are a moron are also actions that can be penalised. The intent is the same and the message is the same .... accept the decision of the umpire and stop complaining.

Just because you've spent your life complaining about umpiring doesn't mean that juniors have to follow in those footsteps.

I haven't spent my life complaining about umpires - that's reductive. I'm complaining about them now though because they're being asked to do something that's unnecessary to achieve the aim.

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8 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

That is a ridiculous and reductive comment.

Arms out is one action among a range of things that an umpire can penalise. Giving the umpire the finger or telling them they are a moron are also actions that can be penalised. The intent is the same and the message is the same .... accept the decision of the umpire and stop complaining.

Just because you've spent your life complaining about umpiring doesn't mean that juniors have to follow in those footsteps.

We are talking about a player showing frustration in the heat if the moment. No other sport in the world would you get penalised for simply throwing your arms up at a decision

you reckon that is the same as a giving the finger to the ump? Laughable mate

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6 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

What's the aim?

You tell me.

But without resorting to games, I think the aim is ultimately to eliminate the air of enmity that exists around the supporters and the umpires, which can't be done by a binary "arms out equals dissent" type of umpiring.

Edited by Chook
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People may get to fear tyrants, but they will not respect them particularly when they are blatantly overzealous.  That is human nature. 
 

Sure I think we all agree when players confront an umpire verbally or in an intimidating manner and dispute their decision a penalty is appropriate but asking a question or holding one’s arms out????

It will have the opposite effect - pity the AFL never admit they make mistakes. 

Similarly with the random implementation of the statue in the mark rule - “we both saw him play on but I didn’t call it - 50 meters!”

Edited by monoccular
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3 minutes ago, Chook said:

You tell me.

But without resorting to games, I think the aim is ultimately to eliminate the air of enmity that exists around the supporters and theumpires, which can't be done by a binary "arms out equals dissent" type of umpiring.

You said that it wasn't needed to achieve the aim. I was hoping for clarification on that aim, since you believed the changes wouldn't achieve it.

What do you believe would "eliminate the air of enmity that exists around the supporters and the umpires"?

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I have said it before, if all umpires cannot be full time professionals then there should be at least one full time professional umpire for every game with the power to overturn any bad decisions by the others if blatantly obvious. Should reduce bad decisions significantly. Currently all umpires act like best buddies and unwilling to call out a bad decision by their mates. Having a master umpire should give that separation of roles, relationships and responsibilities.

Edited by John Crow Batty
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Penalise abuse, swearing aimed at the umpire etc but don’t penalise a player who simply throws their arms up or out. It’s essentially an instinctive behaviour that people do in their everyday life when questioning something. I personally dislike the AFL and umpires even more now. 

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