Cal Twomey's Top 50

[David-Demon 568]

14 hours ago, Demonland said:

50. Brodie Grundy (Collingwood)

49. Bailey Dale (Western Bulldogs)

48. Bailey Smith (Western Bulldogs)

47. Touk Miller (Gold Coast)

46. Jordan De Goey (Collingwood)

45. Jordan Ridley (Essendon)

44. Aliir Aliir (Port Adelaide)

43. Christian Salem (Melbourne)

42. Rory Laird (Adelaide)

41. Caleb Daniel (Western Bulldogs)

40. Jacob Weitering (Carlton)

39. Travis Boak (Port Adelaide)

38. Luke Parker (Sydney)

37. Lachie Whitfield (Greater Western Sydney)

36. Charlie Cameron (Brisbane Lions )

35. Jeremy Cameron (Geelong)

34. Isaac Heeney (Sydney)

33. Josh Kelly (Greater Western Sydney)

32. Max King (St Kilda)

31. Tom Mitchell (Hawthorn)

30. Patrick Cripps (Carlton)

29. Aaron Naughton (Western Bulldogs)

28. Lance Franklin (Sydney)

27. Shai Bolton (Richmond)

26. Jake Stringer (Essendon)

25. Zak Butters (Port Adelaide)

24. Darcy Moore (Collingwood)

23. Tom Papley (Sydney)

22. Darcy Parish (Essendon)

21. Steven May (Melbourne)

20. Hugh McCluggage (Brisbane)

19. Nic Naitanui (West Coast)

18. Jack Steele (St Kilda)

17. Nat Fyfe (Fremantle)

16. Jake Lever (Melbourne)

15. Tom Stewart (Geelong)

14. Toby Greene (Greater Western Sydney)

13. Harry McKay (Carlton)

12. Zach Merrett (Essendon)

11. Tom Hawkins (Geelong)

10. Ollie Wines (Port Adelaide)

9. Lachie Neale (Brisbane)

8. Sam Walsh (Carlton)

7. Patrick Dangerfield (Geelong)

6. Jack Macrae (Western Bulldogs)

5. Max Gawn (Melbourne)

4. Clayton Oliver (Melbourne)

3. Dustin Martin (Richmond)

2. Marcus Bontempelli (Western Bulldogs)

1. Christian Petracca (Melbourne)

Dangerfield @ 7   that's BS...  Ollie Wines is a much better player..   AND Hawkins is too old to be even considered @ 11... Lever @ 16 and May @ 21 deserve much higher ratings... but there again who cares what Twomey says.. So tell me about your football history Twomey ???  The other problem is that Bontempelli plays in a Team with nowhere near the number of stars that the Demons have and he is noticed more as a result. Dustin Martin's days are numbered and in 2021 did not show the consistency that the Demons top 10 displayed. Darcy Parish @ 22 behind Steven May @ 21  - Give me a break....

Edited February 25, 2022 by David-Demon

[Its Time for Another 4,292]

6 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Sacrilege! Look at this and tell me it doesn't make you feel warm and fuzzy in the nether regions 😂

Never been an armpit man but each to their own. 
As for a football moment. Agree. None better except the couple before it maybe. 

[58er 6,567]

8 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

De Goey had a great 2018 and hasn't done a lot since (kind of like the Pies)

DEE SPENCER 

You are  vastly underrating Bailey Fritsch.

His  GF was a match winning effort and you should watch all the ways he gets his goals on the special 59 GOALS collection on Demonland..

De Goey had a great year in2018 but since then Bailey  has developed his forward  craft to an old style forward. Marks,  on the ground, round his body, on his right foot he is a magnificent footballer who now tackles much harder and is a great team msn. Plus he has worked on his deadly accuracy.

He is a smooth mover and is so skilful he gets under the oppos guard with subtle leading. Beautiful to watch.and he is ALL OURS.

 

[picket fence 17,526]

19 hours ago, Davos said:

I think most of these lists in the lead up to the season will have Petracca as #1, but I think if you polled Melbourne fans most would have Oliver as our best. 

 

Is his dominance somehow underappreciated amongst the football media? 

Look Tracc is a superstar but IMO Clarry is the best player in the league!

May, Lever,Salem are all far too low.

Where the bloody hell is Langdon?? BEST wingman by far in the AFL and clearly should be in top 50! FRITTA also criminally underated!

Edited February 25, 2022 by picket fence

[Watson11 2,243]

On 2/25/2022 at 2:13 PM, DeeSpencer said:

So if I was lining up all the players in the comp and picking them purely for this year I'd have the following forwards (excluding the flanker/midfielder types) ahead of Fritsch:

- Naughton, Greene, Hawkins, McKay, Charlie Cameron I'd say are 5 locks, any argument there?
- Then I'd add Max King, Papley, Daniher and Ben Brown as 4 more I'd go with for season 2022. Did they have better seasons than Fritsch last year - no, but overall I'd say they are just better and likely to do so this year. So Fritsch is down to 10th at best.
- Plus I'd certainly consider a number of others like Franklin, a healthy Jeremy Cameron, Breust and Kosi Pickett. 

I’m surprised you didn’t list Gary Rohan above Fritsch. You have listed a few players who go missing in finals.

Finals should be weighted way higher. Fritsch kicked 12 goals across 3 finals in 2021. J Cameron has kicked 21 goals in 12 finals. Daniher 8 goals in 4 finals. Naughton 10 goals in 6 finals. Papley 15 goals in 8 finals. Toby Greene 20 goals in 11 finals. Even Hawkins is only 48 goals in 29 finals.

[DeeSpencer 26,083]

1 hour ago, Watson11 said:

I’m surprised you didn’t list Gary Rohan above Fritsch. You have listed a few players who go missing in finals.

Finals should be weighted way higher. Fritsch kicked 12 goals across 3 finals in 2021. J Cameron has kicked 21 goals in 12 finals. Daniher 8 goals in 4 finals. Naughton 10 goals in 6 finals. Papley 15 goals in 8 finals. Toby Greene 20 goals in 11 finals. Even Hawkins is only 48 goals in 29 finals.

2 goals per final is about par these days given so many are tight low scoring contests.

Hawkins single handedly turned a grand final. Greene’s had 30 and 3 in a grand final. Naughton had 9 marks and 2 goals against Port.

We averaged 20 goals a final with a winning margin of 10 goals. Fritsch was a part of that scoring but he was also a benefit from excellent and constant supply.

You can’t just declare him a superstar on the back of a sample size of 3 games. Not unless you want to swap Steven May on to Fritsch and give Naughton a run against the ghost of Easton Wood too. 

[ding 5,126]

Reigning premiers --------------------->(insert daylight here)----------------------------------------->(more daylight)-------------------------------> Top 50 list

 

[Biffen 12,947]

Cal Who?

[Demon17 5,203]

2 hours ago, Watson11 said:

I’m surprised you didn’t list Gary Rohan above Fritsch. You have listed a few players who go missing in finals.

Finals should be weighted way higher. Fritsch kicked 12 goals across 3 finals in 2021. J Cameron has kicked 21 goals in 12 finals. Daniher 8 goals in 4 finals. Naughton 10 goals in 6 finals. Papley 15 goals in 8 finals. Toby Greene 20 goals in 11 finals. Even Hawkins is only 48 goals in 29 finals.

Excellent post Watson.

Dermie always says you make your name in finals unless you are an outright genius such as robbie flower but even he killed in finals when the dees finally made it.

. I agree and none of those you listed will be remembered in the same light as fritsch. Or others Eg Darren Jarmen,  Jezza etc famous for gf heroics.

Hell they'll be talking in 30 years even about jake bowey and tom sparrow ahead of the above non performers. 

The cats resigning garry rohan tells us something about the cats mindset.

 

Edited February 26, 2022 by Demon17

[Sir Why You Little 37,134]

32 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

2 goals per final is about par these days given so many are tight low scoring contests.

Hawkins single handedly turned a grand final. Greene’s had 30 and 3 in a grand final. Naughton had 9 marks and 2 goals against Port.

We averaged 20 goals a final with a winning margin of 10 goals. Fritsch was a part of that scoring but he was also a benefit from excellent and constant supply.

You can’t just declare him a superstar on the back of a sample size of 3 games. Not unless you want to swap Steven May on to Fritsch and give Naughton a run against the ghost of Easton Wood too. 

This guy must be a disgruntled relative of Jack Watts…

Seriously The first player to kick 6 since Darren Jarman in ‘97

Show some respect, please….

[Watson11 2,243]

22 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

2 goals per final is about par these days given so many are tight low scoring contests.

Hawkins single handedly turned a grand final. Greene’s had 30 and 3 in a grand final. Naughton had 9 marks and 2 goals against Port.

We averaged 20 goals a final with a winning margin of 10 goals. Fritsch was a part of that scoring but he was also a benefit from excellent and constant supply.

You can’t just declare him a superstar on the back of a sample size of 3 games. Not unless you want to swap Steven May on to Fritsch and give Naughton a run against the ghost of Easton Wood too. 

21 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

You did say this “Greene’s had 30 and 3 in a grand final. Naughton had 9 marks and 2 goals against Port.”

Greene has never kicked a goal in a GF.  And Naughtons best finals performance you quoted was about the same as the 8 marks and 2 goals Fritsch kicked against Geelong in the prelim.

Against Brisbane Fritsch kicked 4 including our first 2 goals of the 4th qtr, one from a huge contested grab.  So it wasn’t just the GF. He also kicked 4 of our first 7 goals in the GF. He stood up big time, and did it all season when we needed it.  Very underrated. 

You may not agree, but plenty of people think he is above many of the 10 forwards you quoted as in front of him.  I think he will kick more goals in 2022 than nearly all of those you listed as top 50.  Time will tell and we can bump this thread in 9 months time.

By the way, Fritsch would have had a field day on May in the GF.  Naughton just went into his shell and let May do as he pleased.  May had a torn hamstring!

Edited February 27, 2022 by george_on_the_outer

[whatwhat say what 22,948]

methinks twomey's tome has had the desired effect - got clicks, engendered debate, raised the hackles of supporters far and wide

personally i would definitely have fritsch in the top 50 players in the competition heading into 2022; he finished 2021 really strongly, regularly kicking bags of four or more goals and at just 24 years old should be about ready to enter his prime as a footballer

[picket fence 17,526]

23 hours ago, Watson11 said:

I’m surprised you didn’t list Gary Rohan above Fritsch. You have listed a few players who go missing in finals.

Finals should be weighted way higher. Fritsch kicked 12 goals across 3 finals in 2021. J Cameron has kicked 21 goals in 12 finals. Daniher 8 goals in 4 finals. Naughton 10 goals in 6 finals. Papley 15 goals in 8 finals. Toby Greene 20 goals in 11 finals. Even Hawkins is only 48 goals in 29 finals.

Gary Rohan was in our best players in the Geelong final.

Edited February 27, 2022 by picket fence

[FarNorthernD 5,861]

5 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Gary Rohan was close to our best player in the Geelong final.

Rohan really was awful wasn’t he. I sort of wondered if he was actually injured when he got replaced or just embarrassed 

[DeeSpencer 26,083]

19 hours ago, Watson11 said:

You did say this “Greene’s had 30 and 3 in a grand final. Naughton had 9 marks and 2 goals against Port.”

Greene has never kicked a goal in a GF.  And Naughtons best finals performance you quoted was about the same as the 8 marks and 2 goals Fritsch kicked against Geelong in the prelim.

Against Brisbane Fritsch kicked 4 including our first 2 goals of the 4th qtr, one from a huge contested grab.  So it wasn’t just the GF. He also kicked 4 of our first 7 goals in the GF. He stood up big time, and did it all season when we needed it.  Very underrated. 

You may not agree, but plenty of people think he is above many of the 10 forwards you quoted as in front of him.  I think he will kick more goals in 2022 than nearly all of those you listed as top 50.  Time will tell and we can bump this thread in 9 months time.

By the way, Fritsch would have had a field day on May in the GF.  Naughton just went into his shell and let May do as he pleased.  May had a torn hamstring!

No idea why I said grand for Toby. Meant final. He's played some really good ones. The best argument against him is that he'll get suspended and miss the rest of the finals as he has now twice if not more.

I'm not saying Fritsch didn't play well or even amazingly well come the granny, he just has a distinct role as a goal kicker for the comps best side. And I'm not convinced that other players are finals flops because of lower averages, especially when they play in a lot of losses due to being in inferior sides to Melbourne 2021.

Naughton did get May once in the 2nd quarter and I guess if Fritsch got a mountain of space and good delivery he'd be a chance to get May too. But May's brilliance is in his positioning and body work before the ball arrives to gain an advantage for the contest. May buffered, blocked and out positioned Naughton in the 3rd term and did what very few key defenders can do on Naughton and beat him in contests and helped turn the tide. If he was given similar up field pressure and could do the same to Fritsch he wouldn't have touched it.

Anyway, happy to agree to disagree. I just think Fritsch is more of a star in his role than a true star forward of the game. But I'm certainly keen to see more and see how he develops his partnership with a fit Ben Brown. I'd like to see Fritsch used in some different roles this year including up the ground more to use his penetrating kick creating goals as well as kicking them.

[Gator 17,477]

Luke Breust and Jack Gunston have both been star footballers and All-Australians.  I've watched from afar with envy, as they've both been so valuable in their ability to hit the scoreboard and complement Hawthorn's key forwards (and Cyril) in their dominant premiership years.

Neither have ever kicked goals more than Fritsch did in 2021 (Gunston equalled once - Breust best is 57).  And it's never been harder to hit the scoreboard than in 2021.

Fritsch is only 25 and his best years lie ahead.  He is a role player, but tell me anyone who plays his role better.  

The last two years running Fritsch has taken the 5th most marks inside 50.  The last non key forward to do that (top 5) was Steve Johnson in 2010. 

It's easy to downplay Fritsch but his role is just about as valuable as it gets in my eyes.

[Roost it far 8,628]

On 2/25/2022 at 11:43 AM, chook fowler said:

I reckon Dangerfield is massively overrated 

So completely and utterly. Has he ever played well in a final?

[1964_2 2,357]

On 2/25/2022 at 11:37 AM, Davos said:

I think most of these lists in the lead up to the season will have Petracca as #1, but I think if you polled Melbourne fans most would have Oliver as our best. 

 

Is his dominance somehow underappreciated amongst the football media? 

Agree, Oliver number 1 for me.

football media prefer trac, because he has the looks and is more charismatic and likeable. 
 

 

[picket fence 17,526]

1 hour ago, Roost it far said:

So completely and utterly. Has he ever played well in a final?

NO !

Edited February 27, 2022 by picket fence

[jnrmac 20,189]

17 hours ago, Hannibal Inc. said:

Luke Breust and Jack Gunston have both been star footballers and All-Australians.  I've watched from afar with envy, as they've both been so valuable in their ability to hit the scoreboard and complement Hawthorn's key forwards (and Cyril) in their dominant premiership years.

Neither have ever kicked goals more than Fritsch did in 2021 (Gunston equalled once - Breust best is 57).  And it's never been harder to hit the scoreboard than in 2021.

Fritsch is only 25 and his best years lie ahead.  He is a role player, but tell me anyone who plays his role better.  

The last two years running Fritsch has taken the 5th most marks inside 50.  The last non key forward to do that (top 5) was Steve Johnson in 2010. 

It's easy to downplay Fritsch but his role is just about as valuable as it gets in my eyes.

Cyril only kicked 40 or more goals twice. 

Picket has done it once, at 20yo

[Redlagged 813]

22 hours ago, Roost it far said:

So completely and utterly. Has he ever played well in a final?

Fantastic player. Played injured last year.

[Redlagged 813]

22 hours ago, 1964_2 said:

Agree, Oliver number 1 for me.

football media prefer trac, because he has the looks and is more charismatic and likeable. 
 

 

Petracca is a superb example of a certain kind of player. Oliver is unique. Anyway, comparisons are odious. We're bloody lucky to have them both.

[Simon Port 201]

I still feel like Clarry is super underrated competition wide. Even being listed at number 4 seems too low. He has added elements to his game which makes him truly unstoppable. His burst out of stoppages, he is untackleable, his tackling and defensive pressure is first class, cleanest hands in the business, runs all day and covers the ground with the best of them. His kicking has always been questioned but, he uses it well and somehow Petracca (who I also love dearly) escapes it all and doesn't cop any of the same criticism when his ball use was even worse last year. A once in a generation player who is already tracking towards being Melbourne's greatest ever player. He is only 24....

[tiers 2,843]

Tracca is as good as it gets and compares favourably with the recent Brownlow medallists. Not only a ball magnet but last season he added team lifting plays in the centre (3Q GF) but also around the ground (4Q Gf to Spargo to Fritsch, to TMac). Can do it all.

Clarry is a different bird. When he is on song he plays his own game in a way that has rarely, if ever, been seen before. He lifts the team and brings teammates into the action by his own efforts. The ability to win his own ball and thereby deny possession to opponents is the best ever seen and he then multiplies his effectiveness by delivering to advantage by hand and by foot. If not there yet, he will end up the club's second greatest player of all time after Robbie.

How fortunate are we? A truly unique pair and they're all ours. Golly gosh it's great to be successful.

GO GOODY GO DEES

[dworship 3,342]

On 2/25/2022 at 5:57 PM, jnrmac said:

I used to get annoyed by these lists. 

 

Now I couldn't care less.

 

We are the Premiers

 

Everyone else can eat our dust

Actually, now I only get annoyed by Dee Spencer!