MFC player racially abused on social media - club statement

[praha 11,240]

It's a double edged sword. We obviously need to stamp this out. As someone that works in corporate comms and risk mitigation, social media is a very tough cookie for businesses. There is now legal precedent that a business has a duty of care not only to its employees but also to the general public (ie. if someone says something defamatory about a player on a club's Facebook page, the club itself has a weight of legal responsible, should the player ever hold their own club to account). So there's both a PR benefit but also legal benefit and of course anti-racism benefit in all of this. HOWEVER...

These are anonymous trolls. They are digital arsonists. They post these comments expecting and WANTING this sort of response. We are effectively tisk tisk'ing and shaking our head at ghosts: they will never be found. And it will never stop unless there is legislation banning anonymity online, which opens a whole new can of worms.

So we either ignore and ban the trolls and move on, but open ourselves up to PR, legal, cultural criticism. Or, we call out the troll, tick those boxes, but give the troll what they want.

This is not a battle that will be won. And I feel like we are all shaking our heads and saying "rAciSm iS nEvEr oKaY" but we're not actually fighting any real battle here to stop it. And stuck in the middle are poor kids like Kosi who cop it. Meanwhile we post a nice little statement condemning it and move on.

The real issue here isn't even racism. It's the platform itself. We asked and we received. 

[BoBo 2,941]

12 minutes ago, praha said:

 

So we either ignore and ban the trolls and move on, but open ourselves up to PR, legal, cultural criticism. Or, we call out the troll, tick those boxes, but give the troll what they want.

There is no ignoring though. You either make yourself visible and live your actual life to the values that you espouse or you condone racism by being silent.

If trolls want condemnation online for their sick behaviour then I’m happy to give them want they want. But I will also back up my words in real life and not tolerate this kind of hate in person too. I am mindful of people who go through racism reading forums like this and I want to show in the small way I can that I don’t accept this, be it online or in real life.

If other people just say the things they mean to say online and act in real life in another way, then that’s a shameful thing to do. I mean it when I say that I call people out on their racist remarks, however small or ‘jokey’ they think they are.

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Cranky Franky said:

I was wondering whether posters would try to score points or focus on the main issue.

Wonder no more, @Demonstone 

[Cranky Franky 2,091]

1 hour ago, praha said:

It's a double edged sword. We obviously need to stamp this out. As someone that works in corporate comms and risk mitigation, social media is a very tough cookie for businesses. There is now legal precedent that a business has a duty of care not only to its employees but also to the general public (ie. if someone says something defamatory about a player on a club's Facebook page, the club itself has a weight of legal responsible, should the player ever hold their own club to account). So there's both a PR benefit but also legal benefit and of course anti-racism benefit in all of this. HOWEVER...

These are anonymous trolls. They are digital arsonists. They post these comments expecting and WANTING this sort of response. We are effectively tisk tisk'ing and shaking our head at ghosts: they will never be found. And it will never stop unless there is legislation banning anonymity online, which opens a whole new can of worms.

So we either ignore and ban the trolls and move on, but open ourselves up to PR, legal, cultural criticism. Or, we call out the troll, tick those boxes, but give the troll what they want.

This is not a battle that will be won. And I feel like we are all shaking our heads and saying "rAciSm iS nEvEr oKaY" but we're not actually fighting any real battle here to stop it. And stuck in the middle are poor kids like Kosi who cop it. Meanwhile we post a nice little statement condemning it and move on.

The real issue here isn't even racism. It's the platform itself. We asked and we received. 

Most sensible post on this issue. As long as there is anonymity there will be lowlifes doing this. Its how they get their kicks. 

All the outrage and condemnation in the world will not stop it.

[layzie 33,991]

We'll get to the point where this keyboard warriors trash is stamped out. I'm confident. Won't happen thid year but it's coming.

[whatwhat say what 22,940]

it's really interesting to note that - following the aflpa press statement - that ALL indigenous players, the adelaide football club, and most of the media, are no longer referring to him as 'tex' walker

methinks taylor's career might be done

[3183 Dee 2,907]

3 hours ago, BoBo said:

The thing that I hear a lot from people that (wilfully or not) don’t understand the impact racism can have on people, is things like ‘it’s just words’ or ‘their overreacting’ or ‘it’s just a joke’. I still see comments on social media or hear people that I work with that say these excuses.

At times I’ve been called a ‘white maggot’ by indigenous people. This has absolutely no effect on me as it is just a name and just words. There’s no history of my whiteness being genocided because of being white, no history of my parents/grandparents being taken away from their families because they were white, refused jobs because of being white, being viewed suspiciously, enslaved because of being white, my culture and language being purposefully erased by the state because for being white etc. etc. etc.

There is no inter-generational trauma I face because of my skin colour.

The same is very different for indigenous people.

For indigenous people, being called a racial slur is hundreds of years of trauma, vilification, genocide and being assumed to be ‘sub human’ which is solely based on skin colour/culture.

It’s not a joke, it’s not just words, indigenous people aren’t being too ‘sensitive’, these slurs are bringing up all of that history of being thought of as sub-human which is massively alienating and hurtful. It is something white guys like me will, never, ever understand or actually be made to feel like this. It’s alien to us as in racial terms, we have always been ‘normal’ (I.e. white) Australians.

Once you realise the weight of this, there is no possible way you could dismiss this as being anything other than an incredibly hurtful, cruel and hateful thing to do. 
 

In my younger days I was too scared to speak up about casual racist remarks. But now I think it’s the very least that I can do to not accept racism in any form. It’s not funny, they aren’t jokes and they aren’t ‘just words’.

Eloquently and thoughtfully written  @BoBo

[BoBo 2,941]

25 minutes ago, Cranky Franky said:

Most sensible post on this issue. As long as there is anonymity there will be lowlifes doing this. Its how they get their kicks. 

All the outrage and condemnation in the world will not stop it.

Right, but this is beside the point.

People don’t oppose things for the sole purpose of making them 100% stop… you oppose them if they are morally wrong to minimise them from happening which causes harm to people. 
 

Also, this isn’t solely an issue of anonymity as Tex Walker has just been outed for racially vilifying an indigenous person. Was he anonymous when he did it? Is ALL racism in Australia committed anonymously online? 
 

No it’s not. So presenting the issue of racism as though it’s just about anonymous people online is dodging the obviously reality issue of ingrained racism in the society.

I could name quite a few Australian columnists/commentators both political and sporting that are known for racism and are even known for spreading it in under their own names… which again, isn’t a case of anonymity. It’s a case of racism.

Edited August 10, 2021 by BoBo

[Dees2014 2,377]

4 hours ago, Gorgoroth said:

People need to watch Eddie Betts on 360 tonight. See the hurt these flogs do each and every time they open their idiotic mouths without engaging their Neanderthal brains.

As sad as it is I’m glad I’m white. I don’t know how the indigenous people put up with and stand up this, I’m not sure I would have the ability to continually turn the cheek.

Interestingly, Eddie mentioned in that interview that Kossie was singled out during this episode. I’m sure the club is giving him every support he needs, especially from the players who respect and love him as not only one of the best players on  the list, but also one of the most popular, mirroring his indigenous Demon predecessors in Davey, Farmer, Wonna and Whelan. 
 

We all need to close ranks on this disgusting behaviour. We cannot let these morons further inflame the relations with the most treasured section of our community - our indigenous brethren.  It must be stopped, starting with the AFL. 

[Cassiew 1,903]

Still waiting for West Coast’s statement denouncing it.

I’m tired of people using the excuse as “it’s too PC these days.” While I agree to an extent, this isn’t the case. It’s racism. 
I remember the old “stop the mosques, go the pies” banner. I hope it encouraged more people to hate Collingwood.

I know it’s a unpopular opinion, but I don’t agree with all the abuse Goodes copped. Yes I don’t agree with what he did, but let’s not forget the father ALLOWED his daughter to say those racist things without stopping her. I think he was the real villain of that saga. Any of my nieces/nephews calling a person of colour an “ape” would likely be swiftly reprimanded by their parents. 

Edited August 10, 2021 by Cassiew

[rpfc 28,774]

The rise of Trump emboldened supremacists and racists over the globe.

We never dealt with that properly and we condoned it through that silence and now it is a fire out of control.

Some on here think ‘wokeness’ and PC rhetoric are shoved down their throat, well then what is the solution to this? 

If we can’t preach, how will the masses change their behaviour?

Because the olden days of ignoring it and saying to the Eddie Betts of yesteryear “don’t make a thing of it” are over - they are done. They are as mad as hell and not taking it anymore - so what do you want to see happen - if not more ‘woke’ preaching, education in schools, clubs, workplaces, and pushing of the agenda of respect and reconciliation?

[Demonstone 22,815]

9 hours ago, Cranky Franky said:

I was wondering whether posters would try to score points or focus on the main issue.

No idea what you're trying to prove but, if this is intended to be an attack on my comment, rest assured that science is yet to invent the instrument that could measure my indifference to your remark.  Why you so Cranky, Franky?

[KingDingAling 3,758]

Social media has just shown society for what it is, just a bunch of selfish c words.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, BoBo said:

Right, but this is beside the point.

People don’t oppose things for the sole purpose of making them 100% stop… you oppose them if they are morally wrong to minimise them from happening which causes harm to people. 
 

Also, this isn’t solely an issue of anonymity as Tex Walker has just been outed for racially vilifying an indigenous person. Was he anonymous when he did it? Is ALL racism in Australia committed anonymously online? 
 

No it’s not. So presenting the issue of racism as though it’s just about anonymous people online is dodging the obviously reality issue of ingrained racism in the society.

I could name quite a few Australian columnists/commentators both political and sporting that are known for racism and are even known for spreading it in under their own names… which again, isn’t a case of anonymity. It’s a case of racism.

It can also be argued that with access to technology,  those who used to have to bear the brunt of publicly condoned racial slander without means of public reply now have more platforms to voice their displeasure.

Racist abuse and sentiment in the public square was not and is not encouraged by communication tools that provided anonymity. It allowed opinions that had once been acceptable to be forced underground as those expressing them lacked the guts to own them personally.

For crying out loud, this was happening on one of Australia’s most prominent TV shows and it was considered ‘all good fun’. (Trigger warning: racist content).

 

We’ve explained how the roots of this type of stuff isn’t just about nasty people saying bad things. It’s historical and material and that can’t be emphasized enough.

But we also can’t say that racial abuse was created by trolls on the internet because ‘they were given a chance to do so’. It’s just that the most noxious toxicity that was once considered totally kosher has been rightfully stigmatized and forced underground, and the commentators/‘entertainers’ who might have been totally blatant about this now code their language behind a wall of plausible deniability.

Edited August 10, 2021 by Colin B. Flaubert
Clean up

[Webber 10,538]

 BoBo’s summary of contextualised racism nails the distinction terrifically, particularly for those dinosaurs and brainwashed haters who hang onto their ‘white man’ grievances for grim death, and distinctions between overt undisguised racism such as Tex Walker’s, and online anonymity are equally true. The fact remains though that we ARE in a new and completely unfettered era of anonymity. What used to be graffitied on walls or stuck on posters is now online - unaccountable and pathologically designed to provoke. Despite the poison they spill and the pain it inflicts, I’m not sure that who they are is important, particularly given that what they say makes them valueless. What is certain is that if they were identifiable in the ‘real world’, 99% of them would stop. What bothers so many of us is there appears to be no way, ever, of creating or enforcing that identification or accountability. And as others have mentioned, it’s insidious in its ability to foster hatred and misinformation. But it may also be the single remaining protection for those given to antipathetic, prejudiced and bigoted behaviours, the last place they can hide. So much progress has been made, particularly in the last 3 generations, in understanding, fostering and promoting humane equity to nullify those behaviours that I believe, perhaps hope, it simply can’t be stopped. But whilst gender, sexual preference, religion and race bigotries are all becoming less practised as societally justifiable reasons for prejudice, it’s hardly odd that the pointy, grimly resistant vestiges are the noisiest and most aggressive. The softer, more influencable hearts have already shifted. If only we could bring those remainders to personal, real world account. 

Edited August 10, 2021 by Webber
Word add

[Pates 9,660]

2 hours ago, Cassiew said:

I know it’s a unpopular opinion, but I don’t agree with all the abuse Goodes copped. Yes I don’t agree with what he did, but let’s not forget the father ALLOWED his daughter to say those racist things without stopping her. I think he was the real villain of that saga. Any of my nieces/nephews calling a person of colour an “ape” would likely be swiftly reprimanded by their parents. 

I think the majority now would be of the opinion that what Goodes went through was totally not on. I felt (at the time) like there was more to the story than simply it being racism, but regardless of whatever the “reason” people had for booing him the guy was a human being asking people to stop because it caused him pain. That was the mob taking pleasure in his pain, it was disgusting to watch and it actually became it’s own storyline of “will the crowd boo him?” It was sad to watch someone go through it regardless of his standing in the game. 

29 minutes ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

It can also be argued that with the access to technology,  those who used to have to bear the brunt of publicly condoned racial slander without means of public reply now have more platforms to voice their displeasure.

Racist abuse in the public square was not encouraged by communication tools that provided anonymity. It allowed opinions that had once been acceptable to be forced underground as those expressing them lacked the guts to own them personally.

For crying out loud, this was happening on one of Australia’s most prominent TV shows and it was considered ‘all good fun’. (Trigger warning: racist content).

 

We’ve explained how the roots of this type of stuff isn’t just about nasty people saying bad things. It’s historical and material and that can’t be emphasized enough.

But we also can’t say that racial abuse was created by trolls on the internet because ‘they were given a chance to do so’. It’s that the most noxious toxicity  that was once considered totally kosher has been rightfully stigmatized and forced underground, and the commentators/‘entertainers’ who might have been totally blatant about this now code their language behind a wall of plausible deniability.

Wow….I just…wow. I mean I know there different standards and expectations, but that’s absolutely awful. How he didn’t just clock Summers out cold right then and there is amazing. Disgusting doesn’t even begin to describe that clip. 

[RodGrinter14 19]

I just wanted to touch on the education side of this issue  - and in particular Tex Walker's apology video (sorry if this has been discussed previously). Tex Walker has a lot of work to do - his apology video makes that abundantly clear. I know he was emotional but it's unacceptable for a perpetrator to 'lean' on the victim for support and education. Hasn't the victim been through enough without having to go through the emotional labour (and potential re-traumatization) of supporting and educating the perpetrator? There are a lot of resources out there - so rather than make the victim or victimised community do the heavy lifting, take ownership and educate yourself Tex (and anyone else in his position).

[Half forward flank 1,022]

11 hours ago, Demonstone said:

I wonder if the poster who demanded to know exactly what Tex Walker said will also be clamouring to find out the precise detail of what was said about our player, as if that makes a difference.

My thoughts too D. The only reason people like that want to know the details is to try and pull it apart, find some tiny part of it that thinks something similiar happened to them, like being called an anglo nickname, Bluey, Slim, or such and then saying I copped it to. Then you have the Ted whitten type brigage who thought it ok to to say you just r........ your sister on the ground but take offence if you didnt want to share a beer after the game. always left me cold that stuff. A bit like the rubbish about having a beer, shaking hands after a fight. I learned long ago, one party in a fight never forgets. On Eddie, I watched from just behind the goals in our carlton game. It wasnt his best game  but you were drawn to him each time the ball came down. He engaged with the crowd, cheer squad seemed to like him, to our credit.

[Cranky Franky 2,091]

41 minutes ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

It can also be argued that with access to technology,  those who used to have to bear the brunt of publicly condoned racial slander without means of public reply now have more platforms to voice their displeasure.

Racist abuse and sentiment in the public square was not and is not encouraged by communication tools that provided anonymity. It allowed opinions that had once been acceptable to be forced underground as those expressing them lacked the guts to own them personally.

For crying out loud, this was happening on one of Australia’s most prominent TV shows and it was considered ‘all good fun’. (Trigger warning: racist content).

 

We’ve explained how the roots of this type of stuff isn’t just about nasty people saying bad things. It’s historical and material and that can’t be emphasized enough.

But we also can’t say that racial abuse was created by trolls on the internet because ‘they were given a chance to do so’. It’s just that the most noxious toxicity that was once considered totally kosher has been rightfully stigmatized and forced underground, and the commentators/‘entertainers’ who might have been totally blatant about this now code their language behind a wall of plausible deniability.

Can't help it can you Colin - every comment has to include a lecture showing us how morally superior  & clever you are.

You are simply stating the obvious - that cultural norms change over time. What was acceptable in the 30's, 50's or 80's is not acceptable now.

And if you watched Kamahl's interview about this matter he stated that Australia was a lot less racist than India or Malaysia where he & his family came from.

 PS - And stop being so blatantly dishonest- nobody has said that racial abuse was started by on line trolls.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,293]

12 hours ago, BoBo said:

This clip perfectly explains how racism is about history and context.

It’s not just words.

Aamer Rahman is fantastic, love this clip 

[Webber 10,538]

5 minutes ago, Cranky Franky said:

Can't help it can you Colin - every comment has to include a lecture showing us how morally superior  & clever you are.

You are simply stating the obvious - that cultural norms change over time. What was acceptable in the 30's, 50's or 80's is not acceptable now.

And if you watched Kamahl's interview about this matter he stated that Australia was a lot less racist than India or Malaysia where he & his family came from.

 PS - And stop being so blatantly dishonest- nobody has said that racial abuse was started by on line trolls.

None of that is deserved. 

[Cranky Franky 2,091]

1 hour ago, Demonstone said:

No idea what you're trying to prove but, if this is intended to be an attack on my comment, rest assured that science is yet to invent the instrument that could measure my indifference to your remark.  Why you so Cranky, Franky?

The correct answer would have been to put your hand up & admit you couldn't help yourself.

[Deemania since 56 6,716]

14 hours ago, Older demon said:

Hard to believe that in a week where Tex walker is called out for racial abuse and the distress and hurt it causes that some troll would still think it is ok to racially abuse a player.. Absolutely disgusting.

Tex Walker actually reinforced racial abuse amongst similar mindlessness within and about the game. Feeble intellect has this effect but it is still an option to condemn and offend someone else on racial grounds - or not to condemn or offend - no matter how switched on you consider yourself to be - or not to be. 

[Lucifers Hero 40,360]

Seeing Eddie's hurt was distressing and heart breaking.   He looked and sounded near breaking point. 

I was devastated to here our player was the much loved and lovable Kozzie.  Can't imagine what the racism does to someone so young and in the infancy of being in the public eye and his career.

I would think that senior indigenous players in May and his uncle Nev will get around him big time and pass on a few tips on how to deal with the ignorant.

Edited August 10, 2021 by Lucifer's Hero

[Smokey 4,389]

I have faith that the vast majority of people aren’t racist in Australia , but I understand the importance of calling out racist behaviour completely. If a person holds racist views they should always be held to account. 
 

But is it productive to for media to shine a spotlight on faceless social media posts by troll accounts purposely pushing the vitriol to simply get this reaction? I don’t know anymore, because that will be a never ending battle due to the anonymity of the internet. 
 

Its certainly not for me to decide as a non-indigenous Australian in any case and I’ll always take guidance from those who are affected by it