Rating 2021 team Against 1998, 2000 & 2018

[At Least I Saw a Flag 5,239]

FWIW the "best team" doesn't always win the flag.  Since 2014, the minor premier hasn't won the flag.

I guess it's the team that best plays finals football, or gets on a roll. That's why Richmond are always a real concern.

 

[Bates Mate 4,486]

OP is right the 98 finals system screwed is bigtime. We destroyed the crows in the first final then for made to travel to the west. Farmer was at the peak of his powers and McLeod was sent to him in a surprise move at the time and he torched him.

 

Having said that this is most balanced and consistent team I've seen in my 42 years.

[Accepting Mediocrity 1,418]

3 minutes ago, bingers said:

FWIW the "best team" doesn't always win the flag.  Since 2014, the minor premier hasn't won the flag.

I think it goes the other way more often, i.e. the best team isn't always the minor premier. E.g., last year Port and Brisbane finished 1 & 2, but both lost home prelims against better sides. Freo finished top in '15 but got belted by Hawthorn in a home prelim.

Not too many flags have been won by sides that didn't have a genuine claim to being the best team of the year. Everyone brings up the dogs winning from 7th in '16, but they won 15 games, which would be top 4 in any other year, and they were top 2 for most of the season before injuries hit. 

Being top of the ladder doesn't make us the best team or flag favourites - we're favourites because at this (very early) stage, we've looked comfortably better than every other team in the top 8.

 

[DeeZone 9,826]

Looking at each of those three sides and as much as I loved our 1998 & 2000 teams I have never felt so confident that we are finally up with the big boys and playing consistently  like Hawks, Cats and Tigers great teams. It is still early but we all know that we will be playing deep into the finals in 2021.

We also have greater depth and more talent than we have ever had since the 50’s & 60’s.

Go Dee’s...!!!

[Maldonboy38 6,402]

Northey is the best Dees coach I have seen. A piece of toast would play well for him - he was a master motivator. 

1994 - the best player-by-player talent we have ever had. Still messes with my head that injuries robbed us so badly. 

This current team has the best defence and midfield, and plays the best team footy that I have witnessed across 5 decades.

But someone above mentioned that most players/teams become game-wide greats by winning premierships, which we haven't done in  a long time. 

[Cranky Franky 2,057]

So which players from the 2000 GF team would get into the current team.

For mine Ingerson would replace Petty, Neitz for Weid & Farmer for Spargo, Green for Melksham, Yze for ANB & Stynes for Jackson.

 

Febey, Powell, Walsh & Robbo would also be considered.

 

[Billy 2,529]

As a 50+ supporter the Northey era for me was our best chance to win a flag

Should’ve won it in 1990

But this mob could be the group for a huge shot in the next 3 years

[Skuit 10,031]

For all that 1998 was a great season I still recall heading into our prelim with little hope vs. North. They were the AFL's Friday night darlings and had given us a spanking in the run home.

2000 we were never in the race, up against possibly the best performing team in history. This year is different - we are the genuine front-runners now. That said - that's rating flag chances, not teams.

As for teams, we have the best midfield and best defence in my lifetime, especially the two one-two combinations of Oliver/Trac and Lever/May - nothing comes even close to those pairings in my mind. 

We're lacking star-power up forward, but the forward-50 arc is probably the most difficult to compare between eras. I think on the balance of things, this year* is close to the best team we've fielded in the past thirty. 

*Note: we basically fielded the same team last year. 

 

 

 

 

[PaulRB 6,362]

Ask me again in 2025…

[Garbo 1,534]

To be the best we still need to do it in finals and luck with injuries will have some say in that. But so far as in the regular seasons go we are on track to have our best year to date. I think I heard during the broadcast on Friday our highest number of wins in the regular season is 16, we will surely break that record.

Have add in my time following since the mid 80s I always envied other teams who had the super star players that you hated but would love to have, even in our best years I don’t think we truely had one. ( ie the Ablett's, Hirds, Judd’s, Franklins of the world), I’m confident in saying we finally have that and not just one.

Edited June 6, 2021 by Garbo

[faultydet 7,594]

14 hours ago, Cranky Franky said:

So which players from the 2000 GF team would get into the current team.

For mine Ingerson would replace Petty, Neitz for Weid & Farmer for Spargo, Green for Melksham, Yze for ANB & Stynes for Jackson.

 

Febey, Powell, Walsh & Robbo would also be considered.

 

I'd venture to say the current coaching group would have issues with Robbos defensive efforts, although I'd have him every day of the week over Fritsch.

And Febey in for Hunt. 

[durango 2,007]

I think that Petty has improved every game he plays he is a better mark than Ingerson and has more athletic ability although Ingerson was a better one-on-one player.

Petty's disposal is a lot better.

[old55 23,558]

8 hours ago, PaulRB said:

Ask me again in 2025…

I see the core of our 28-29 flag sides: Petty, Rivers, Bowey, Jackson, Oliver, Jordon, Sparrow, Weid, Spargo, Kossie.

[drdrake 3,163]

8 hours ago, PaulRB said:

Ask me again in 2025…

Yep, at this stage we the 2021 side has put us in a position to play finals.  They are playing fantastic football but in terms of finals have achieved very little.

[Fat Tony 5,228]

I actually think he best patch I have seen us play was in 2018 when we won 20 odd quarters in a row.

Lever and Hogan getting injured might have cost us at top 4 finish and a real chance to win it that year. Our performance against the Cats in the finals was good enough to beat anyone and we needed the week off and home ground advantage to win the flag.

This year we have been playing a much more defensive game plan which is focused on minimising our turnovers and playing the boundary so that if we do turn it over we are set with defensive cover. We have only kicked 5 goals in a quarter 5 times this season, so I actually think we have another gear to get to offensively. We also can do better in the centre bounces given we should be the best in the comp with Gawn, Oliver, Petracca and Viney.

[Tony Tea 2,809]

The current team is clearly better than 1998, 2000 and 2018 because it is able to handle the pressure game. The previous three teams looked great when allowed to run and gun but were shut down by organised oppositions, whereas this outfit is made of sterner stuff as well being liberally sprinkled with potential All-Australian guns. 

[roy11 3,853]

23 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

I’ve said to a few mates this year in footy conversations this is by far the best Demons team I have ever seen

I started supporting in 1980 and I’ve seen us have teams with greater spread of individual talent, but not a team who sets up and sacrifices their own game for the good of the team. Having said that we do have some exceptional talent in this team, with two potential HOF kids and a future HOF Ruckman

Those previous teams tended to get on a run based on talent and form IMO. I have always felt 1998 was the one that got away. That team was laced with talent and had a decent backline 

 

Mate sent me a similar message after the Brisbane game, we're both mid 30s and he said it's the Best Melbourne team we've seen in our lifetime, have to agree with him.

 

Footy has changed a little so hard to compare BUT we're 11-1 and should really be 12-0, so hard to argue against that point

[Fat Tony 5,228]

I just ran a little analysis on the squiggle site to see how the side stacks up against our previous sides. According to this analysis, this is the best side we have had.

Year	Attack	Defence	Average
1994	61.7	59.5	60.6
1998	60.1	59.5	59.8
2000	67.4	53.9	60.7
2004 (R18)	62.6	60.3	61.5
2018	62.9	61.8	62.4
2021 (R12)	57.2	69.2	63.2

Edited June 7, 2021 by Fat Tony

[ManDee 7,134]

This year we are like a V12 engine running on 9 or 10 cylinders. Past teams have been like V8's . This team has the potential to be one of the best, win a flag or four then we will know.

 

[tiers 2,832]

Any Melbourne team that throughout the nineties had a choice of Lyon, Schwarz, Neitz, Jackovich, Farmer, Charles, Tingay, G. Lovett, B. Lovett, Prymke, Viney, Woewodin, Powell, Johnstone, White, Stynes and more would have to be the best team in our history.

The tragedy is that only Neitz, Farmer,  B. Lovett,  Woewodin, Powell,  White, Stynes of that group were ever consistently available for selection in that period and we were weakened whenever we had a real chance in 1990, 1994 and 1998 by missing players and a lack of cohesion that comes from playing together over an extensive period.

That we made the GF in 2000 was a fluke at a time when the finals system worked in our favour (beating lollie blues in week 1 got us into a PF against tired roos).

The 2021 team might appear to have fewer stars but those that we have are in defence and on the ball where premierships are won. Further, so far, the cohesion is building week by week so that there are no obvious weaknesses on any line.

As I said elsewhere in another post, stay quiet and pray hard.

Go dees.

 

[Fat Tony 5,228]

31 minutes ago, tiers said:

Any Melbourne team that throughout the nineties had a choice of Lyon, Schwarz, Neitz, Jackovich, Farmer, Charles, Tingay, G. Lovett, B. Lovett, Prymke, Viney, Woewodin, Powell, Johnstone, White, Stynes and more would have to be the best team in our history.

The tragedy is that only Neitz, Farmer,  B. Lovett,  Woewodin, Powell,  White, Stynes of that group were ever consistently available for selection in that period and we were weakened whenever we had a real chance in 1990, 1994 and 1998 by missing players and a lack of cohesion that comes from playing together over an extensive period.

That we made the GF in 2000 was a fluke at a time when the finals system worked in our favour (beating lollie blues in week 1 got us into a PF against tired roos).

The 2021 team might appear to have fewer stars but those that we have are in defence and on the ball where premierships are won. Further, so far, the cohesion is building week by week so that there are no obvious weaknesses on any line.

As I said elsewhere in another post, stay quiet and pray hard.

Go dees.

 

The finals system now is the same as in 2000. We finished 3rd that year and won the qualifying final.

[Big Col 1,347]

On 6/6/2021 at 3:05 PM, Bates Mate said:

OP is right the 98 finals system screwed is bigtime. We destroyed the crows in the first final then for made to travel to the west. Farmer was at the peak of his powers and McLeod was sent to him in a surprise move at the time and he torched him.

 

Having said that this is most balanced and consistent team I've seen in my 42 years.

I think you're mixing up 1994 and 1998!

One interesting point. In all the years we made finals between 1987 and 2018 we NEVER finished high enough to earn the 'double chance'.  At this stage, even 6/5 for the rest of the season should place us in the top 4.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Big Col
grammar

[Ollie fan 3,370]

 

I’m with those who say the 1994 team was outstanding. But the team includes the coach, and our coach then completely wrecked that team. He wanted everyone to “share the football“ which meant hand passing to each other on the back line, when we had Lyon, Schwarz and others in the forward line just waiting for the ball to come down.

 

The present team is absolutely superb, although the forward line is yet to dazzle. Despite all the Goodwin haters, we have a much better coach now than in 1994 and that makes all the difference.

[praha 11,240]

The 94 team when healthy was imo the best team we'd had since 64, or at least in my lifetime. Many of the late 80s youngsters like Tingay, Viney, Lyon, Lovett, Lovell were all peaking. Just couldn't get them all on the park at the same time.

For me it goes 2021 > 94 > 98 > 2000 > 2018

[Bates Mate 4,486]

1 hour ago, Big Col said:

I think you're mixing up 1994 and 1998!

One interesting point. In all the years we made finals between 1987 and 2018 we NEVER finished high enough to earn the 'double chance'.  At this stage, even 6/5 for the rest of the season should place us in the top 4.

You're right I did get the opponent confused.  we got screwed in 98 in that we beat the lower ranked Adelaide in the first final then had to go through higher ranked opponents than Adelaide in the prelim despite fishing higher than then in the ladder and beating them in the first final. They changed the system the following year