Killing Football

[Whispering_Jack 27,977]

The strength of the AFL depends on football’s grass roots. The local suburban and country clubs that develop young footballers and turns them into stars. Those clubs are also important to their local communities for their sport and healthy recreation and for their togetherness and entertainment at weekends. This is a story of council greed that could kill off Fitzroy for a second time. It shouldn’t be allowed to happen.

Council fee hikes threaten to wipe out community sports clubs

[Diamond_Jim 11,753]

without wishing to get political it's a Greens dominated council who believe that their number 1 challenge is global warming.

I believe in global warming but somehow I think the council's bigger challenges might be closer to home.

Charging by reference to "inclusiveness" is a new concept.

My son played his junior football finals at the Brunswick oval. A lovely set up

[rjay 23,912]

6 minutes ago, Whispering_Jack said:

The strength of the AFL depends on football’s grass roots. The local suburban and country clubs that develop young footballers and turns them into stars. Those clubs are also important to their local communities for their sport and healthy recreation and for their togetherness and entertainment at weekends. This is a story of council greed that could kill off Fitzroy for a second time. It shouldn’t be allowed to happen.

Council fee hikes threaten to wipe out community sports clubs

I'm speechless....

[Cards13 9,117]

It’s hard enough keeping a local footy club going year in and year out without the council making it even harder for you.

 

[Pickett2Jackson 3,904]

13 minutes ago, Whispering_Jack said:

The strength of the AFL depends on football’s grass roots. The local suburban and country clubs that develop young footballers and turns them into stars. Those clubs are also important to their local communities for their sport and healthy recreation and for their togetherness and entertainment at weekends. This is a story of council greed that could kill off Fitzroy for a second time. It shouldn’t be allowed to happen.

Council fee hikes threaten to wipe out community sports clubs

The Greens.  Enough said.

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,154]

The council's response:

https://www.yarracity.vic.gov.au/news/2021/03/29/proposed-new-policy-for-sporting-facilities-promotes-inclusion-and-diversity

 

 

[Diamond_Jim 11,753]

15 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

The council's response:

https://www.yarracity.vic.gov.au/news/2021/03/29/proposed-new-policy-for-sporting-facilities-promotes-inclusion-and-diversity

 

 

cost recovery for a community football oval...

let's call it for what it is.... wedge politics

[kev martin 9,144]

I think the fees are far too high.

However, if these clubs want to claim sole occupancy of the field at the expense of other uses then they have to pay.

As a social sports person who regularly plays pick up games, these organised clubs have regularly shunted me from pillar to post.

I can understand that when they have a scheduled game the need for sole use of the facilities  but they become very protective of "their field" and "their infrastructure" when they aren't in actual use.

I have always thought,  how can a club with 300 to 1000 members exclude the  40 000 other rate payers and numerous others. All because they can pay for access as a collective. 

I think bad luck, should have been more willing to share.

Though I believe all the council facilities should be at cut price;

swimming pools, tennis courts, gyms, basketball courts, halls, theatres, child care, etcetera. 

Make some of our world egalitarian and create equal access to facilities beyond our socio-economic abilities. 

Stop running the place as an economic cow.

The benefits of a fully active community can not be underestimated. 

Not just for the organised, but for all.

This money need or paying for access is such a dampener for us people. 

No more exclusionary activity on council properties open the door to all.

 

Edited March 30, 2021 by kev martin

[deebug 1,754]

It's sad that greed has once again reared it's ugly head?

[roy11 2,926]

Their response says "Currently Yarra sporting clubs contributed an average of less than three per cent to the cost of running and maintaining grounds and facilities The changes to fees and charges still place Yarra at the lower end when compared to what other Councils charge."

Would be helpful for the council to present some case studies to show how the subsidies/discounts would apply to current clubs, otherwise the information coming from both sides is not exactly painting the clearest picture.

City of Yarra have debt, they're leasing out grounds/venue at lower rate compared to other councils. Is wanting to bring figure to align to other councils greed?

 

 

 

 

 

[drdrake 3,037]

5 minutes ago, kev martin said:

I think the fees are far too high.

However, if these clubs want to claim sole occupancy of the field at the expense of other uses then they have to pay.

As a social sports person who regularly plays pick up games, these organised clubs have regularly shunted me from pillar to post.

I can understand that when they have a scheduled game the need for sole use of the facilities  but they become very protective of "their field" and "their infrastructure" when they aren't in actual use.

I have always thought,  how can a club with 300 to 1000 members exclude the  40 000 other rate payers and numerous others. All because they can pay for access as a collective. 

I think bad luck, should have been more willing to share.

Though I believe all the council facilities should be at cut price;

swimming pools, tennis courts, gyms, basketball courts, halls, theatres, child care, etcetera. 

Make some of our world egalitarian and create equal access to facilities beyond our socio-economic abilities. 

No more exclusionary activity on council properties open the door to all.

 

Kev, you have the same opportunity to book facilities as long as no one else has booked these and as long as you pay to book.

I have no idea which other councils they are comparing pricing to, the going rate out in my area is about 6-10K per season depending on the hours of usage.  That would be the rate for Training 4 nights a week 5-8pm and match days 8am-6pm Sat and Sunday.

 

[kev martin 9,144]

5 minutes ago, drdrake said:

Kev, you have the same opportunity to book facilities as long as no one else has booked these and as long as you pay to book.

I have no idea which other councils they are comparing pricing to, the going rate out in my area is about 6-10K per season depending on the hours of usage.  That would be the rate for Training 4 nights a week 5-8pm and match days 8am-6pm Sat and Sunday.

 

Very difficult for a pick up group to book a place.

We become an unscheduled,  disorganised group, which does not know what numbers and some don't have leisure money,  we play without leaders, or insurance. 

Our beauty is that we do it without complications. Except for rangers and the committee coming after us.

As a an over 60, it is very difficult to find a club where I can get a regular game anyway.

If I was 16, activities are everywhere.  

 

Edited March 30, 2021 by kev martin

[daisycutter 28,528]

33 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

The council's response:

https://www.yarracity.vic.gov.au/news/2021/03/29/proposed-new-policy-for-sporting-facilities-promotes-inclusion-and-diversity

 

 

lot of nice words.......but the damage is in their own details

over 3 years average return (fee) to rise from an avg of 4% to 20%

i make that a gross 400% increase in fees  ( (20-4)/4 * 100 )

[drdrake 3,037]

1 minute ago, kev martin said:

Very difficult for a pick up group to book a place.

We become an unscheduled,  disorganised,  group which does not know what numbers and who has leisure money, that we play without leaders, or insurance. 

Our beauty is that we do it without complications. Except for rangers and the committee coming after us.

 

I'm involved in a local based club, we book and pay for the slots we use, our cricket pitches are covered last week of March.  We have rocked up to Junior matches/training and pick up groups have removed the cover, set up games on the oval and protest aggressively when we tell them this is a booked slot.  Good for us now the council has gone back to dumping sand on the pitches so they can remove the temporary covers we did have. 

If we aren't using the oval go for it, the issue that casual groups face is you want to use the ovals the same times the clubs do, after work and weekends. 

So who should have priority access to an oval, the paying tenant or casual users that get upset as they don't want to pay anything?

[kev martin 9,144]

1 minute ago, drdrake said:

I'm involved in a local based club, we book and pay for the slots we use, our cricket pitches are covered last week of March.  We have rocked up to Junior matches/training and pick up groups have removed the cover, set up games on the oval and protest aggressively when we tell them this is a booked slot.  Good for us now the council has gone back to dumping sand on the pitches so they can remove the temporary covers we did have. 

If we aren't using the oval go for it, the issue that casual groups face is you want to use the ovals the same times the clubs do, after work and weekends. 

So who should have priority access to an oval, the paying tenant or casual users that get upset as they don't want to pay anything?

All should be respectful to each other.

No group should have to pay big amounts of money. Active involvement has so many benefits to all that money just puts the brake on.

The pick up group should put things back where and how they find them. Because they disrespect the place they make it worse for others as well.

Organised sport, has to have priority. Without that we all lose something in the community.

There has to a place for the pick up group.

People with cash shouldn't be able to dictate the terms .

I hate the so called user pay system, social stratification, and creating privilege.

 

 

[kev martin 9,144]

13 minutes ago, drdrake said:

So who should have priority access to an oval, the paying tenant or casual users that get upset as they don't want to pay anything?

You also have sole use to the facilities,  such as toilets/showers, change rooms, canteens, meeting halls.

The pick up want to use some grassed area. That is all.

The organised collective do get priority. 

Perhaps the first approach to this group of pick ups was aggressive or in the past they have been spurned by you lot.

All need to be respectful. 

Again, as a pick up player, I have been treated pretty badly by the organised at times.

They become very protective of the stuff they have. 

If I am an unskilled, weaker and older player is there a place at your club for me to get a game and be welcomed?

Or is it a clique group, where you have to be like the others to play, (which is what I find). Diversification can be a problem in these organised places.

 

 

 

[DeeSpencer 23,134]

This notion of discounts for diversity and inclusion just staggers me. 

The clubs have thousands of kids playing. That's your inclusion.

Diversity should be fostered and the clubs should be punished if they aren't abiding by codes of conduct to allow everyone who wants to join to join. There should also be some kind of program for kids of lower socio-economic backgrounds to be covered. Usually most junior clubs do this informally without any fuss. Everyone knows the kids who's parents can't or won't pay.

But what process will they have to count the diversity? Are they really going to go around and count the number of kids with a certain skin tone or surname? To me that's beyond a joke. That's pushing a political ideology at the expense of thousands of parents and kids just trying to play sport.

And their solution of jacking the rates just seems incredibly stupid. Clubs will have to pass some of that on to parents which will in turn mean there's more of a barrier for new kids joining in. Absolutely shooting themselves in the foot. 

[bush demon 1,890]

27 minutes ago, dl4e said:

This is disgusting. These green loonies shove global warming down your throats so they can tax the [censored] out you.

I want to know what's wrong with Mars as a homeground if Earth becomes uninhabitable. You could play a given season there in hub format, for example. Several  seasons could be trialled at Alice Springs to see if the idea has legs. Umpiring could be be by autonomous robot. And Kayo could chip in to subsidise cost of living adjustments.

[DeeSpencer 23,134]

1 hour ago, Diamond_Jim said:

without wishing to get political it's a Greens dominated council who believe that their number 1 challenge is global warming.

I believe in global warming but somehow I think the council's bigger challenges might be closer to home.

Charging by reference to "inclusiveness" is a new concept.

My son played his junior football finals at the Brunswick oval. A lovely set up

The amount of new apartments in Richmond, Collingwood and Fitzroy should see the council absolutely stacked with funds. Somehow they aren't. Lack of parking fines money has created a huge deficit in their budget. 

People build 1000's of new homes in Casey and they've got enough money to build a whole new Casey Fields complex. Obviously they have the land for that expansion, but the same kind of benefits in Yarra should mean upgrades and wonderful facilities at the ovals they maintain. 

They've also introduced a glass only bin that is completely unfeasible. It's led to people putting tonnes of paper and plastic recycling in the garbage because they have no room for it in their smaller recycling bin. They've ignored the fact that most people buy milk, juice, soft drink etc in plastic or cardboard food boxes and that to fill a glass bin you'd have to be an alcoholic. That's the kind of ideology over reasoning this council loves.

 

 

[PaulRB 5,923]

I lived in Yarra for years and several of the public owned fields are “owned” by the resident club at the exclusion of the local residents. Great for fostering inclusion if your kid plays that sport at that club, a drag if you want to walk tour dog or have a kick to kick session on that field... over the weekend or when they’re training... paying 4% of the cost to maintain these areas seems massive unders, 20% seem reasonable. Especially as these clubs also hit up the council to fund improvements to their “exclusive” clubhouses (that also have a public toilet....

Lots of political projecting on this thread.

Edited March 30, 2021 by PaulRB

[Brownie 5,177]

The council should butt out and leave it to Gil to do his job killing our game

[DeeSpencer 23,134]

4 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

I lived in Yarra for years and several of the public owned fields are “owned” by the resident club at the exclusion of the local residents. Great for fostering inclusion if your kid plays that sport at that club, a drag if you want to walk tour dog or have a kick to kick session on that field... over the weekend or when they’re training... paying 4% of the cost to maintain these areas seems massive unders, 20% seem reasonable. Especially as these clubs also hit up the council to fund improvements to their “exclusive” clubhouses (that also have a public toilet....

Lots of political projecting on this thread.

Name the ovals. 

I'm happy for Fitzroy FC to have BSO a few nights a week for training and all of Sat/Sun during games. They'll use it and use it well. $6500 seems about the right price too, not $30k. If that's 4% of maintaining an oval and changerooms for a winter then someone's getting ripped off.

Same goes for the cricket club at 31k per season. That seems about right given maintaining the pitch is costly. 100k a season would have to be the MCG, there's no way it's a 500k a year facility.

If the ovals are too busy it's because they councils keep gladly adding apartment after apartment without sourcing additional green space. 

[roy11 2,926]

22 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

This notion of discounts for diversity and inclusion just staggers me. 

The clubs have thousands of kids playing. That's your inclusion.

Diversity should be fostered and the clubs should be punished if they aren't abiding by codes of conduct to allow everyone who wants to join to join. There should also be some kind of program for kids of lower socio-economic backgrounds to be covered. Usually most junior clubs do this informally without any fuss. Everyone knows the kids who's parents can't or won't pay.

But what process will they have to count the diversity? Are they really going to go around and count the number of kids with a certain skin tone or surname? To me that's beyond a joke. That's pushing a political ideology at the expense of thousands of parents and kids just trying to play sport.

And their solution of jacking the rates just seems incredibly stupid. Clubs will have to pass some of that on to parents which will in turn mean there's more of a barrier for new kids joining in. Absolutely shooting themselves in the foot. 

 

The Agenda for the Council meeting is on the website, I had a quick browse but it's 60 pages long and my local club that i am involved with isn't in City of Yarra.

The discount is based on the below Points scale and percentage qualification.

Subsidy Level Subsidy Percentage Qualification
Subsidy Level 1 50% Allocation Criteria Score between 20 and 29
Subsidy Level 2 60% Allocation Criteria Score between 30 and 49
Subsidy Level 3 70% Allocation Criteria Score between 50 and 69
Subsidy Level 4 80% Allocation Criteria Score between 70+

I'm involved in a local sporting club in a different council but we'd hit Level 3 easy at  a minimum and could get Level 4 relatively easy so whilst our fees would increase it wouldn't be as hectic as some of the reported figures that seemingly haven't been adjusted with the subsidy. 

It seems City of Yarra undercharged for ground hire and haven't charged clubs for pavilion hire and an increase in fees may be required to bring some parity to other councils. E,g I saw some figures of local clubs in City of Yarra that are paying less than what my club pays in a different council.

The way they've gone about the increase is a bit too convoluted and they haven't helped themselves.

You'd hope with increased fees you'd get increased service and better facilities/pitches too. 

 

 

[DeeSpencer 23,134]

 

 They've relented for now. Will be interesting to see if they try to push this through again in a few months or if they come to their senses.

[PaulRB 5,923]

8 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

 

 They've relented for now. Will be interesting to see if they try to push this through again in a few months or if they come to their senses.

Hey DeeSpencer,

in Yarra the issue is less with footy fields more cabel and ethnically focused soccer clubs who use the facilities while building little empires around their council funded clubs, often their culture is Not inclusive (it varies a lot) of the general public and they use it to play in local politics... your quoting of the local “socialist” (his label not mine) member Steve Jolly defending these cabel’s that give him support, only shows how little you know about the situation and “corruption” in Yarra...

Steve actually founded a soccer club (Yarra Jets) to build an open alternative to some of the other clubs, but has also used it as a “political tool” of sorts.

ive no issue with people doing that, just think they should contribute fairly to the public purse that’s subsidising them...

Edited March 30, 2021 by PaulRB