Simon's pass mark for 2021?...

[Demon trucker 1,800]

The dees will make top 4,  mark my words, take it to the bank, no buts no maybe's 

[picket fence 17,041]

14 hours ago, don't make me angry said:

The dees will make top 4,  mark my words, take it to the bank, no buts no maybe's 

Can give me a sliver of reasoning?

[Bitter but optimistic 22,218]

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

Can give me a sliver of reasoning?

It will be a Spargo led re-emergence 

[Demon trucker 1,800]

7 hours ago, picket fence said:

Can give me a sliver of reasoning?

In December 1999 I told everyone Shane was going to win the Brownlow, and that the dees will win 14 game in the in the 2000 H&W season. I just know, don't question it, just believe.

[skills32 229]

With the list we have a prelim final appearance would be the minimum pass mark.

[Pickett2Jackson 3,904]

On 11/26/2020 at 8:57 PM, don't make me angry said:

The dees will make top 4,  mark my words, take it to the bank, no buts no maybe's 

The dees SHOULD make top 4

[Smokey 4,388]

You'd have to think that with our list where its at, in terms of talent and age, we really should be finishing top 4 next year. Ben Brown was the last major piece of the puzzle really. If he gets going from round 1 I think we're a good chance for that. 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,172]

Top 6 is a pass - as in if we finish top 6 he won't get sacked. 7th or 8th (losing an EF) and he'd be on shaky ground. Not making finals is unacceptable and he should get the sack all things being equal.

[CHF 2,720]

I would accept getting into the finals and playing at least a couple.

I would also like to see a development in Goodwin's coaching. As a basic step I want to see him playing players in positions at which they excel. Example is Harmes. Get him playing the tagging role that he was so good at. I don't want to see him as a wing/HBF/ medium forward. Play him where he is best.

In the recent past there has been a big move to have flexible player that can play multiple positions as required. Not every player has the ability or natural talent to do that. Coach and develop the players to their best position.

[Rogue 585]

Blocking out the fugazi.

[old dee 23,778]

Play finals but not by falling in during the last round of the season. Finishing eighth by the skin of our teeth is not good enough. That result shows you don’t have the skill to get a list that should have played finals easily in 2020 improved. 

[binman 42,642]

On 11/25/2020 at 8:40 PM, BW511 said:

Saw a snippet of David King talking about Carlton’s chances in 2021, one remark he made stood out to me as very relevant to Melbourne.

I’m paraphrasing a little, but he said building for a flag is more important than aiming to make finals. If your aim is to make finals, you’ll just be a middle of the road team indefinitely - I know King flops around depending on which way the wind blows, but we need to be working towards becoming ready to win a flag, rather than just making finals. The most important position for us to finish in this year is as a really genuine flag contender for 2022 (if not 2021)

Totally agree with this. Though I'd say we should be a flag contender next year too.

Which realistically means a top 4 finish. Of course luck with injuries (or pandemics) come into it, but next season will be his fifth as senior coach.

And the rebuild began in 2014, with the appointment of roos, albeit from a very low base.

So next year will be year 8 of the current rebuild. The time is now.

I am actually really confident about where we are at. And I believe we are a good chance of winning the flag next year.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,768]

I feel Simon's at the top of his coaching game and has hit a real sweet spot in his development, particularly during the last season and a half:

1) Swinging Bayley Fritsch from defense to attack in a shock move during a late season 2019 game against the Dogs and having the courage to keep him there for the rest of the season, when nobody else could fathom such a positional move.

2) Taking Harmes out of the midfield in round 23 2019 and enabling his career to further flourish in a multi positional role, rather than simply tagging the opposition's best midfielder such as Lachie Neale. Good thing Lachie didn't get the 3 brownlow votes when we played them this year...oh wait...

3) In a further cutting edge bombshell, he elected to throw Melksham in the midfield for the last 2 games of the season for an impressive return of 12 and 8 possessions. I'm not sure if he was tagging that day, but I'm sure he would've been a far better option than Harmes regardless.

With cutting edge tactical moves such as the above examples, I don't believe ladder finishes or finals exits are true indicators or KPI's to assess Simon and ultimately setting a pass mark.

 

[old dee 23,778]

2 hours ago, binman said:

Totally agree with this. Though I'd say we should be a flag contender next year too.

Which realistically means a top 4 finish. Of course luck with injuries (or pandemics) come into it, but next season will be his fifth as senior coach.

And the rebuild began in 2014, with the appointment of roos, albeit from a very low base.

So next year will be year 8 of the current rebuild. The time is now.

I am actually really confident about where we are at. And I believe we are a good chance of winning the flag next year.

While I agree with most of that Binman I cannot see us making a GF at any time with the current coach. I have Zero confidence in his ability on match day. Very happy to be wrong but we are constantly out manoeuvred during games. 

[640MD 3,356]

I can see why you all think the way you do.

I really think the pass mark will be determined half way through.

If we are less than 6 wins 5 losses, even if the losses are by less than a goal each time.

Then its a fail and a bad fail,     see you later alligator,  don't slam the door on your way out !

probably needs to be 7/4.    That's when you decide and act. Don't think I like him much but I do hope its 7/4 or better.  Go Dees

[Diamond_Jim 12,534]

58 minutes ago, old dee said:

While I agree with most of that Binman I cannot see us making a GF at any time with the current coach. I have Zero confidence in his ability on match day. Very happy to be wrong but we are constantly out manoeuvred during games. 

That is the sad reality.

There has been a tendency here to forgive for the Cairns debacle and put it down to travel etc but really it was just another failure to motivate and manage the team. The second loss in Cairns had no excuse.

A season where the highlight was a close win against the Saints and a big win over an injury riddled Collingwood doesn't bode well.

[Kent 2,906]

6 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

That is the sad reality.

There has been a tendency here to forgive for the Cairns debacle and put it down to travel etc but really it was just another failure to motivate and manage the team. The second loss in Cairns had no excuse.

A season where the highlight was a close win against the Saints and a big win over an injury riddled Collingwood doesn't bode well.

Yep No finals with goody in charge I agree

Cue the next messiah

[Pates 9,659]

Just a thought, Goody’s pass mark should be dependent on where the club overall rates the list and Gawn himself might’ve been one to give a little away on that. He said that he feels the team is ready for success, I would interpret that internally the senior players and the FD believe that we have a top 4 capable team that’s able to be a contender. 

If that’s the case then surely the club is targeting the top 4 (with being in contention) as a “success”. I would then see 5-6 as the clubs acceptable pass with a win in week one. Then, again if they are rating performance vs expectations-with-list, anything below that is considered a fail, and a cross against Goody. If we’re out of finals contention at the mid point of the year then Simon’s papers will be stamped. 

On the flip side the club might see things differently, with top 6 considered “success” and just making finals a pass. (I hope not, I don’t want us to be making up the numbers)

[4_Kent_Watts 869]

We need to win more games than we lose. That's the start of a good Team in any sport. Those claiming we should be Top 4, well.........I know who I go for. I look forward to the next season tho.

[Foopy on the telly 529]

1 hour ago, 4_Kent_Watts said:

We need to win more games than we lose. That's the start of a good Team in any sport. Those claiming we should be Top 4, well.........I know who I go for. I look forward to the next season tho.

Well we already achieved that this year so it’s about taking that leap into finals next year IMO.

[Demon17 5,186]

On 11/25/2020 at 7:14 PM, Wiseblood said:

I was going to say exactly the same thing.

I just want to see a solid game plan that stands up against the best in the competition.  I believe we have the talent to do it, but the pressure is on Goody to get them going in the right direction.

If we miss the finals then I think the club has no choice but to pull the pin.  It would mean we've played finals once during his coaching tenure and that's just unacceptable at this point.  We aren't the basket case we were when Roos took over.  He has the players at his disposal and has had plenty of time to mould the list to his liking.

Good call, And just as important is the off field support he's got over the journey.

e.g

Getting in Steven May, probably Ben Brown, good recruiting (Luke Jackson and others), Darren Burgess. Adem Yze, Gawn as skipper, (I'm ambivalant on Richardson, but they went and got him in for a reason I presume, which escapes me up to now)

No excuses for a minimum 2 finals wins IMO.

[4_Kent_Watts 869]

19 hours ago, nacnud said:

Well we already achieved that this year so it’s about taking that leap into finals next year IMO.

Agreed its at least about making finals but top 4..... Dont reckon we are a to 4 side yet. potentially yep but until they prove it

[picket fence 17,041]

On 12/1/2020 at 12:08 PM, Bring-Back-Powell said:

I feel Simon's at the top of his coaching game and has hit a real sweet spot in his development, particularly during the last season and a half:

1) Swinging Bayley Fritsch from defense to attack in a shock move during a late season 2019 game against the Dogs and having the courage to keep him there for the rest of the season, when nobody else could fathom such a positional move.

2) Taking Harmes out of the midfield in round 23 2019 and enabling his career to further flourish in a multi positional role, rather than simply tagging the opposition's best midfielder such as Lachie Neale. Good thing Lachie didn't get the 3 brownlow votes when we played them this year...oh wait...

3) In a further cutting edge bombshell, he elected to throw Melksham in the midfield for the last 2 games of the season for an impressive return of 12 and 8 possessions. I'm not sure if he was tagging that day, but I'm sure he would've been a far better option than Harmes regardless.

With cutting edge tactical moves such as the above examples, I don't believe ladder finishes or finals exits are true indicators or KPI's to assess Simon and ultimately setting a pass mark.

 

Not having a Go but ...consider this

1 Fritscake is a forward nothing more nothing less

2 Ditto Harmes Inside Mid that can perform a Hard Tag

3 Melksham is overated and lazy.. Needs to spend time at Casey.

Simons Cutting edge tactical moves have done SFA towards getting us anywhere

BUT 

You are entitled to your view!

Edited December 6, 2020 by picket fence

[picket fence 17,041]

Ps I reckon Ross Lyon will be our coach in 2022

[Demon Disciple 12,064]

Nothing short of a PF.