Simon's pass mark for 2021?...

[picket fence 17,137]

Is a clearly in top 5  finish, EVEN BETTER top 4 with at least a Preliminary final playoff! IMV

[BDA 22,743]

Top 4 minimum. Otherwise we're just wasting our time and this group of players isn't getting any younger.

[Hampton 22 519]

Extensive learnings

[Pickett2Jackson 3,904]

Top 4

[deebug 1,754]

Top 4 

[Diamond_Jim 12,567]

The first hurdle is a decent start to the season and getting to the bye with say a record of no less than 6-4.

If he's less than that the media pressure will be so  enormous that his imminent sacking will become the story.

This is the best list we are likely to have for the next five years (Gawn declining, Hibberd declining etc). Scraping in with a late charge doesn't cut it with me.

I also want to see a 50/50 or more win loss ratio with top 8 clubs. No good beating the bottom 8 if our gameplan fails against the top 8.

[Little Goffy 14,520]

I don't know if there's a specific number of wins or ladder position, but at the end of 2021 we will know if things are where they ought to be if the general chatter about us includes phrases such as 'premiership threat 2022'.  That obviously includes a premiership 2021!

There are two particular things I'll be watching our games for - holding back the tide when things turn against us, instead of giving away bulk goals in 15 minute lapses, and really putting the hammer to opponents when we do get on top.

Caveats and footnotes galore.  We could have anywhere from 8 all-Australians and the Rising star, to none of the above.

 

 

 

[Yze_13 297]

Winning a final.

[DubDee 25,828]

Demonstrate a quality game plan that is consistently implemented 

demonstrate a plan B when things go wrong

Evidence the players believe in the direction of the club and sign on early

[adonski 12,053]

Win the flag & begin construction on the Petracca statue would be my pass mark

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,816]

Finals at the absolute bare minimum.

However the club will have a big decision to make if we get pumped in week 1 finals and have a record of say 2-7 against the top 8 sides.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

12 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Finals at the absolute bare minimum.

However the club will have a big decision to make if we get pumped in week 1 finals and have a record of say 2-7 against the top 8 sides.

I was going to say exactly the same thing.

I just want to see a solid game plan that stands up against the best in the competition.  I believe we have the talent to do it, but the pressure is on Goody to get them going in the right direction.

If we miss the finals then I think the club has no choice but to pull the pin.  It would mean we've played finals once during his coaching tenure and that's just unacceptable at this point.  We aren't the basket case we were when Roos took over.  He has the players at his disposal and has had plenty of time to mould the list to his liking.

[DeeSpencer 25,671]

Port missed the finals last year after a customary fade out and got very close to winning it all this year. 
 

There has to be some allowance for injuries, close losses, young players tiring, new players and coaches adjusting etc.

Because we can pretty much repeat 2020 and change 1 result and make finals. Which won’t be satisfactory to me.

Or we can change the game plan, blood some young defenders, shake up the midfield mix and persist with a very inexperienced forward line (even with BBB) and actually get closer to a flag. We should do all that and make finals, but there’s a chance we struggle at times but overall find a better formula.
 

It can’t all be wins and losses. 

[rjay 24,916]

Not just top 4...we made top 4 in 2018 and went out playing poor footy.

Didn't recover in 2019 for whatever reason.

Treading water in 2020.

Must be better than just top 4 in 2021.

[BDA 22,743]

If we start 0-3 should we pull the pin and be done with it? Likelihood of making finals from that start are slim. 

[Pates 9,660]

Pass mark is top 6 but not just scraping in, being a team to genuinely fear. Also minimum winning one final. 

Have to be contenders this year and we should 100% be aiming for top 4, there’s been a couple outliers but mostly to win the big one you have to get the double chance. 

[Macca 16,959]

I see the list as being capable of finishing anywhere from 12th to 6th.  There are so many variables that it's near impossible to accurately predict where we'll end up

6th might mean a great run with injuries and a functioning forward line with Brown and one other KF firing.  Also performing well when we're supposed to.  A reasonable ask

And as for 12th,  most of you know the drill

But I can't see top 4 unless we make a quantum leap

I believe we're 5 or 6 good/top players short of being a consistent top 4 side (taking into account injuries, coaching and mixed form)

Not doomsday as we can play finals but we're not a threat.  We are a work in progress

I watched all the finals and we've got a bit to overcome to reach top 4 level

[BW511 2,668]

Saw a snippet of David King talking about Carlton’s chances in 2021, one remark he made stood out to me as very relevant to Melbourne.

I’m paraphrasing a little, but he said building for a flag is more important than aiming to make finals. If your aim is to make finals, you’ll just be a middle of the road team indefinitely - I know King flops around depending on which way the wind blows, but we need to be working towards becoming ready to win a flag, rather than just making finals. The most important position for us to finish in this year is as a really genuine flag contender for 2022 (if not 2021)

[Gunna’s 2,104]

Is this thread another way of asking how Goodwin keeps his job?

If so, then I think we can only assess after the season given extenuating factors can cause unforeseen results. If we have an injury run like this year (lack thereof), then top 8 has to be the pass mark as Bartlett has already stated. 

If COVID is alive and we are in another part of the country for extended periods, then it will be game style and ‘brand’ and whether we see another port loss. If we lose key players (Gawn, May, Oliver, Trac, Brown) to season long injuries early, then again the ‘brand’ will be what saves Goodwins with pass mark. 

[bing181 9,218]

Too many variables to put absolutes on it, though I think anyone saying Top 4 is kidding themselves. Maybe next year if all goes well this season, but the distance between us and the genuine Top 4 sides is still a chasm.

But what I'd be looking for more than anything is consistency, lack of which was our undoing this year.

[adonski 12,053]

23 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Too many variables to put absolutes on it, though I think anyone saying Top 4 is kidding themselves. Maybe next year if all goes well this season, but the distance between us and the genuine Top 4 sides is still a chasm.

But what I'd be looking for more than anything is consistency, lack of which was our undoing this year.

Every team bar Richmond is average 

[Pates 9,660]

21 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Too many variables to put absolutes on it, though I think anyone saying Top 4 is kidding themselves. Maybe next year if all goes well this season, but the distance between us and the genuine Top 4 sides is still a chasm.

But what I'd be looking for more than anything is consistency, lack of which was our undoing this year.

I said the same thing about Port going into 2020, yes they had a leg up with being able to play more games in Adelaide but they definitely altered their brand of footy enough to make use of what they already had at the club.

We matched it with Geelong and Brisbane (both are losses that with a bit of poise could've been wins), lost to Richmond but were in the game until late, Port was the only disgrace against the top 4. The talent is there, it's making the pieces of the puzzle fit that we need to improve, as well as a big shift in attitude about pressure (that is something we are well off the pace on).

Richmond's biggest asset is their unrelenting pressure and ability to squeeze what they need out of every player no matter how talented they are.

[Macca 16,959]

The club needs any number of good people working well in their positions and then working well together

So it isn't just the coach

It's the Board,  the CEO,  the GM,  the Head Coach,  the Assistant Coach (Mentor,  Right hand man)

The Chief Recruiter (and his assistants),  the List Manager & Player welfare personnel

The Line Coaches,  Midfield,  Forward,  Clearance & Stoppages Coaches,  Skills coaching,  the Captain and the list of players

A good list of players too (all desperate for success)  Good culture is of paramount importance as well

Put it all together and success should come our way.  But in the end if you haven't got enough talent you won't win

Edited November 25, 2020 by Macca

[cookieboc 776]

the 2021 and 2022 premierships

[KingDingAling 3,757]

Finals would be a good start. Pass grade would be to at least win a final. Anything less would be hard to keep the job. I think we’ll make top 4 though. If we can manage to find another wing player we pretty much have the complete side.