1 hour ago, Rusty Nails said:

I said that at the time, including on here                    ......                             Disastrous decision by the club.

Back then I thought Grimes and Trengove were the future to look to.  But my young head Brian, a blue boy but not a member, (never could get him to buy a membership...other priorities) suggested they were both too young and inexperienced. Other players better for the job.  

An older ex player suggested  neither was getting enough of the ball to inspire, themselves or the club generally. 

Hind sight is a wonderful thing, I need more of it, but yes its proven to be a  "Disastrous decision by the club."

Ruined two young players that may have been in the 22 , for  3 times as long as they played,  The club should quietly give them any support they may need, in the end they were sacrificed for the sake of short term gain.  I used to think Grimes was solid but that Trenners was a top class player.

 

Go Dees                a win this week ........ I might even think Goody can coach.    nah what would I know  Get the picking wrong most weeks

The wheel turns. Clarkson made hay while the sun shone on his part of the paddock, using a formula which provided success. 

Part of the trouble with importing talented players to fill roles is that when they age there's a huge experience gap. Another factor is sentiment, in that surely it becomes difficult to shove players you've 'imported' into the waste bin. IT's interesting that Clarkson was able to do it to Hodge, Lewis and Mitchell, all players who started with the Hawks, but he hasn't been able to cut the Gordian knot with players he has imported. It would be fair to say that Frawley, Puopolo, Bourgoyne and Wingard are past their use by dates, that Hawthorn might be  a better side had he groomed younger players to replace them earlier. And for all the talk of Hawthorn's success, the bottom line is they haven't won one since 2015 and have arguably been on a sink to the bottom of the sea journey since then.

Clarkson is an exceptional Coach but he simply doesn't have the cattle to execute a winning game-plan.  I think the last few years we've seen Hawthorn artificially propped-up by some aging stars, NQR imports and some coaching ingenuity.  But the talent coming in has not matched the talent going out (including Fagan).

We're now going to see a power struggle (ego-clash) between Kennett and Clarkson, similar to what we saw 2009-10.  I think the media is going to lap it up and there will be genuine pressure for the Hawks to have a fresh start with Mitchell and for Clarkson to take over a ready made list.  We're already seeing shades of this through Jordan Lewis and Kennett last week.

  

 

1 hour ago, dieter said:

The wheel turns. Clarkson made hay while the sun shone on his part of the paddock, using a formula which provided success. 

Part of the trouble with importing talented players to fill roles is that when they age there's a huge experience gap. Another factor is sentiment, in that surely it becomes difficult to shove players you've 'imported' into the waste bin. IT's interesting that Clarkson was able to do it to Hodge, Lewis and Mitchell, all players who started with the Hawks, but he hasn't been able to cut the Gordian knot with players he has imported. It would be fair to say that Frawley, Puopolo, Bourgoyne and Wingard are past their use by dates, that Hawthorn might be  a better side had he groomed younger players to replace them earlier. And for all the talk of Hawthorn's success, the bottom line is they haven't won one since 2015 and have arguably been on a sink to the bottom of the sea journey since then.

If only our last premiership was 2015!

17 minutes ago, Deesprate said:

If only our last premiership was 2015!

I would have almost stopped celebrating 

17 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

 

Believe it or not they did start a coach thread in 2018 that is still going.

It had a slightly different title than ours....

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/will-clarkson-add-a-5th-premiership-by-the-end-of-2022.1208116/

This was a post today...

There's a higher chance of the AFL shrinking back to a Victoria only comp than Hawthorn winning another premiership ever.

 

Almost MFCSS !

 

I had a peruse through their forum. Someone created a fluff ladder, "the real"Ladder after round 6. They put themselves in equal 1st saying they only have to beat the easy teams from now on. Being delusional never helps. Grap your popcorn, could be interesting if Swans best them this weekend.

Edited July 21, 20204 yr by Youngwilliam

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Yep...

They also 'stole' Darren Jarman who we drafted and refused to come. Hawthorn got him a year later in a pre-arranged deal.

6 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

He deserved it.

In fairness to Fitzpatrick he was only brought in as an insurance depth for their talls. Don't think they ever had in mind that he would come in and eventually be a best 22 in their side. 

Fitzy is a weird unit though. He sees himself a Hawthorn man more then a Demon. Only have to see his twitter handle and constant barracking of the hawks on a weekly basis. 

True, but the point remains that just because a player is taken by Clarkson/Hawthorn, that doesn't Clarkson is some sort of genius who "sees something" that the rest of us don't.

clarkson could well become a brilliant football manager, a la neil balme

11 hours ago, 640MD said:

Back then I thought Grimes and Trengove were the future to look to.  But my young head Brian, a blue boy but not a member, (never could get him to buy a membership...other priorities) suggested they were both too young and inexperienced. Other players better for the job.  

An older ex player suggested  neither was getting enough of the ball to inspire, themselves or the club generally. 

Hind sight is a wonderful thing, I need more of it, but yes its proven to be a  "Disastrous decision by the club."

Ruined two young players that may have been in the 22 , for  3 times as long as they played,  The club should quietly give them any support they may need, in the end they were sacrificed for the sake of short term gain.  I used to think Grimes was solid but that Trenners was a top class player.

 

Go Dees                a win this week ........ I might even think Goody can coach.    nah what would I know  Get the picking wrong most weeks

As you say 640.... time to look forward.  Looking through the MFC rear vision has too many car crashes to dwell on too long.  May end up having one myself!

10 hours ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Clarkson is an exceptional Coach but he simply doesn't have the cattle to execute a winning game-plan.  I think the last few years we've seen Hawthorn artificially propped-up by some aging stars, NQR imports and some coaching ingenuity.  But the talent coming in has not matched the talent going out (including Fagan).

We're now going to see a power struggle (ego-clash) between Kennett and Clarkson, similar to what we saw 2009-10.  I think the media is going to lap it up and there will be genuine pressure for the Hawks to have a fresh start with Mitchell and for Clarkson to take over a ready made list.  We're already seeing shades of this through Jordan Lewis and Kennett last week.

On FC last night they said Leon Cameron is OOC this year and speculated Clarkson would be a good fit for the Giants.

25 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

On FC last night they said Leon Cameron is OOC this year and speculated Clarkson would be a good fit for the Giants.

Clarkson at the Giants.    That would be the AFLs wet dream.

It will happen .

15 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Reading that thread is hilarious. You could change the names around and think you were reading demonland. And they won a hat-trick of flags only 5 years ago!!! Imagine if we ever win (another) hat-trick we'd be set for life!!

I'd die a contented man.

Edited July 21, 20204 yr by Fork 'em

The wheels are continuing to fall off the arrogance train known as Hawthorn and it remains glorious to watch.

Clarko’s clip of Tom Papley today “He milks frees as good as anyone” is cringeworthy imo. For a senior coach to have a sook like that naming another player is deadset embarrassing. Imagine the players groups mindset hearing this from your coach. 

Our first pick in 2020 draft continues to improve with the Hawks continuing to falter. I thought the Frost trade for a future second rounder would have netted us around 28-30 but it’s now looking like it could be around the 20 mark.  

Glorious 

 

33 minutes ago, Deeko2 said:

The wheels are continuing to fall off the arrogance train known as Hawthorn and it remains glorious to watch.

Clarko’s clip of Tom Papley today “He milks frees as good as anyone” is cringeworthy imo. For a senior coach to have a sook like that naming another player is deadset embarrassing. Imagine the players groups mindset hearing this from your coach. 

Our first pick in 2020 draft continues to improve with the Hawks continuing to falter. I thought the Frost trade for a future second rounder would have netted us around 28-30 but it’s now looking like it could be around the 20 mark.  

Glorious 

 

Did you see Horse’s disbelief when told what Clarko said? Haha! He was furious, I love seeing the hawks in the bottom 4, I hope the cats join them next year for a very long stint down there.

4 minutes ago, BrisbaneDemon said:

Did you see Horse’s disbelief when told what Clarko said? Haha! He was furious, I love seeing the hawks in the bottom 4, I hope the cats join them next year for a very long stint down there.

Horse handled it beautifully I thought. Didn’t give the media a big headline but made sure he came across disappointed in how Clarko whinged it up.

 

I think there is a very good possibility Clarkson will leave the Hawks potentially at the end of this year, things are seemingly pretty hostile at the moment with Kennett being himself. 

I wouldn't rule out another team poaching him, one of the greatest coaches of all time, can't see him being willingly nudged into retirement. 

Would be very ballsy if the Dees made the move and pulled the trigger. i love the thought of what Clarko could do with this list

 

On 7/21/2020 at 5:09 AM, FarNorthernD said:

I would have almost stopped celebrating 

Lightweight

On 7/21/2020 at 7:53 AM, dazzledavey36 said:

He deserved it.

In fairness to Fitzpatrick he was only brought in as an insurance depth for their talls. Don't think they ever had in mind that he would come in and eventually be a best 22 in their side. 

Fitzy is a weird unit though. He sees himself a Hawthorn man more then a Demon. Only have to see his twitter handle and constant barracking of the hawks on a weekly basis. 

The gap between Fitzys best...

And worst...

... Is too far.

On 7/20/2020 at 12:04 AM, Youngwilliam said:

Jack Trengove... we really stunk up draft '09 with our first 2 picks.

Jack gave his heart and soul for the Club even whilst recovering from his leg injury he was doing community work with the Club’s programs. Although he was never going to regain the body to stand AFL speed, he did manage to get B&F for Casey Demons the year before we jettisoned him.  IMHO delist him (& from our salary cap) but retain him as a Casey player (on fair renumeration)and he may have led Casey to a Demons Premiership. That in itself would have warranted retention of him and rewarded the players on the AFL list who spent much of their time playing for Casey for various reasons. A bit like our treatment of James Macdonald really > shortsighted and ignoring aspects like Club culture.

On 7/20/2020 at 3:48 PM, Youngwilliam said:

Trenners was good, more about the bad luck of his foot. But remember, Dustin Martin went #3.

Yes but Dusty was never “the Melbourne look” at the time with our blue blood MFC Board. Maybe that had some bearing on the selectors?

28 minutes ago, CBDees said:

Jack gave his heart and soul for the Club even whilst recovering from his leg injury he was doing community work with the Club’s programs. Although he was never going to regain the body to stand AFL speed, he did manage to get B&F for Casey Demons the year before we jettisoned him.  IMHO delist him (& from our salary cap) but retain him as a Casey player (on fair renumeration)and he may have led Casey to a Demons Premiership. That in itself would have warranted retention of him and rewarded the players on the AFL list who spent much of their time playing for Casey for various reasons. A bit like our treatment of James Macdonald really > shortsighted and ignoring aspects like Club culture.

It's a nice sentiment but:

1.  Maybe a Casey gig was actually offered but rejected by Jack;

2.  I think the competitive nature of him would have always wanted to play at the highest level if he thought there was a remote chance of it;

3.  Going to Port may also have suited him going back home to SA to be closer to family.

11 minutes ago, CBDees said:

Yes but Dusty was never “the Melbourne look” at the time with our blue blood MFC Board. Maybe that had some bearing on the selectors?

I really do doubt this - I'm more inclined to think that Jack was clearly regarded as on of the top 2 players in that draft and thus that's why we took him.  If I do remember anything, there was a debate about him going 1 or 2 and some thinking that he should perhaps go pick 1 due to his leadership qualities setting him up better to handle the pressure associated with pick 1.

...then there was also the episode where we nearly traded him to Richmond when he still had some trade currency.

You can't win them all I guess and it was a bit of a sad saga all round.  ...but the  I guess St Kilda did pick up Paddy and leave Trac for us, so it evens out over the long run sometimes.  Also everyone in that draft let Gawn slip through to the 50s some where.

11 hours ago, Deeko2 said:

Clarko’s clip of Tom Papley today “He milks frees as good as anyone” is cringeworthy imo. For a senior coach to have a sook like that naming another player is deadset embarrassing. Imagine the players groups mindset hearing this from your coach. 

Clarkson's public whinges are becoming fairly frequent of late.  The AFL seemed to listen to him on the holding the ball thing and maybe now they will make some kind of adjustment to the rules because of this incident as well - or maybe not.  He is really damaging his own legacy with this kind of behavior at the moment.

Shaun Burgoyne up for another crude/sling tackle too I think (thought he was pretty useless against us anyways).  The wheels are falling off indeed and it's enjoyable to watch.

Edited July 25, 20204 yr by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

13 minutes ago, CBDees said:

Yes but Dusty was never “the Melbourne look” at the time with our blue blood MFC Board. Maybe that had some bearing on the selectors?

Yep, this is in tune with what Gawn was talking when he was first walked in and our club was made of precious private school boys..

This had Cameron Schwab hands written all over it.

What a shambles the club was back then.