He has played so little football at the top level, it is difficult to see where he fits. To me he doesn't really look like he fits anywhere yet. Traditionally, you start your career in the backline if your place in the game is still developing. The only thing that stands out is he flies for the ball in the air, often without thinking of how this impacts the team mates around him. For this quality alone, it shouts out  that he is a forward, but we have a good 10 players on our list who I would put forward before him. So no place in our starting 22 just yet. 

There's no point sugar-coating it - the basic eye test says that Smith has been a weak link in our backline this year (not that he hasn't done a few nice things). Stats are virtually meaningless for defenders - the less you notice them, the better they're playing, and we've noticed Smith quite a lot. 

That said, the biggest weaknesses in his game are things that should improve with good coaching and experience. He's got some traits that give him a real point of difference if he can sort the rest of his game. It's worth remembering that Howe didn't look like much of a defender in his first few seasons either. I'd keep him on the list for another year or 2 and see how he develops.

 

21 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Back up for Lever as he should have been all year.

Staggered that Goody would get rid of Frost and then bring in Frost Mk II.

? Frost MK2 except at a 3rd of the cost and a 3rd of the chaotic defensive desperation 

22 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Back up for Lever as he should have been all year.

Staggered that Goody would get rid of Frost and then bring in Frost Mk II.

You just answered your own question.

No need to keep both. One's asking for 3 years on OK-good coin. While the other is already contracted on min chips.

List management.

23 hours ago, Damo said:

More suited up forward IMO

Maybe so but Pretty was trained to play forward. There is no point training Smith to also play forward when he is behind Tmac, Weed, Jackson, Petty as tall fwds when down back we have no cover after May, Lever, Omac. Its whats best for the team.

 

Edited July 14, 20204 yr by Grimes Times

1 hour ago, Dee*ceiving said:

 

? Frost MK2 except at a 3rd of the cost and a 3rd of the chaotic defensive desperation 

 

6 minutes ago, Grimes Times said:

You just answered your own question.

No need to keep both. One's asking for 3 years on OK-good coin. While the other is already contracted on min chips.

List management.

Think you guys misinterpreted my post, so let me rephrase:

Goody got rid of an athletic but erratic and unreliable defender who disrupted the ability of the defence to build trust among each other onfield in favour of seemingly making the backline more steady, reliable and safe.

Then Goody places an athletic but erratic and unreliable defender who disrupts the ability of the defence to build trust among each other onfield in his place. Consequently we don't have that steady, reliable and safe backline we had want for.

Talking about roles, cohesion and strategy, not list management.

Edited July 14, 20204 yr by Lord Nev

11 minutes ago, Grimes Times said:

Maybe so but Pretty was trained to play forward. There is no point training Smith to also play forward when he is behind Omac, Weed, Jackson, Petty as tall fwds when down back we have no cover after May, Lever, Omac. Its whats best for the team.

 

There is always an argument for best position vs where best for the team. I personally believe we need more help in the Forward line this year. I also believe Joel is almost 2 years behind in preparation and may be juggled back and forward further into his career. At this point his best game when he got injured last year, he kicked 4 goals up front and looked a natural. Id like to see him as a fast defensive forward and allow his obvious leaping skills to progress. There was plenty of excitement about him that seems to have evaporated. 

I'd be interested to read observations from regular Casey watchers. Especially with regard to any games he played forward. Did he display an aptitude for forward play at the lower level ? Did he get many opportunities ?

Plenty are clamouring for him to play forward but I can only note two bits of supporting evidence. 1) Smith can jump. 2) He kicked four goals in a practice match against Brizzy. Others obviously consider that significant but personally I discount that game as being compelling evidence that Smith is a gun forward in waiting. A couple of the goals were decent - one he slotted on the run from 50 plus and another was a good snap having sharked the ball off a marking contest. In the last quarter he was the beneficiary of one of the dumbest free kicks you'll ever see (thanks Mitch Robinson) and his final goal pretty much fell into his lap while on his own at the top of the square, his opponent apparently having nicked off to get a pie & a drink. The point being that none of them came from Smith displaying any "tall forward" tendencies.

The gap between his best and his worst has been conspicuous and I think this is why he's out of the side. He has actually defended quite well for the most part but when he gets it wrong it's a train wreck

Someone previously mentioned the Jeremy Howe role (apologies for not quoting). I like this idea as he has the physical traits to play this role, is a safe if not brilliant kick and he can run like the clappers. The additional benefit is that his mistakes are less likely to result in a shot at goal. Whether the has the footy nous is another question. Hawthorn mucked around with James Sicily for years before settling him in this position where he's gone on to be an accomplished player. 

In an ideal world Smith could be preparing for this role & honing his skills at Casey. It's really unfortunate for him that now that he's finally got his body up & going, his opportunities to develop have been severely restricted

1 minute ago, Go the Biff said:

I'd be interested to read observations from regular Casey watchers. Especially with regard to any games he played forward. Did he display an aptitude for forward play at the lower level ? Did he get many opportunities ?

Can't say I can remember him playing forward. The "other" Smith and Weid were generally the talls.

TBH he was injured so often I'm not sure how many Casey games he played. (from his Wikipedia listing it looks like around 15-20 tops.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Smith_(footballer,_born_1996)

Unfortunately not up to AFL standard good enough from depth but will never cement his spot in 22,still learning but has a long way to go

Smith is young, developing, versatile and has good attributes that serve him well across the ground, but hasn't baked it at AFL level. 

I think primarily, he provides us great back up to Lever, who has had injury issues.

Following that he also potentially can fit in as a KPD if one of Oscar or May go down: you always need back ups on your list. And, given his pace, he could potentially fill a Hibberd style role as well, offering competition to Rivers in that space.

I don't see how he fits up forward.  He will never be a KPF and we have a lot of mid forwards with some runs on the board, so he is down the pecking order in that space bit could fill it if AVB and Hannan got injured and Melksham was dropped.

 

I think he represents depth/coverage for now. Hibberd and Jetta are 31 by the end of this year and Melksham will be over 30. So I think Smith has a role to play over the next 2 years as a more mature body filling some of those roles so that we aren't plugging kids in immediately. If he steps up the position could be his for 4-6 years. If not, he will be a reasonable stop gap until someone overtakes him. 

 

Right now he isn't best 22. But we have no injuries either. 

20 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Not so silly does he have a tank?

I read somewhere that Alan Richardson thought Smith had elite athletic endurance, as good as he had seen in AFL! He has the speed and tank but does he know how to play that position, can he learn it? Who knows? 

If list sizes are being reduced, he will probably be delisted.

9 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Smith is versatile. Can play forward, back, wing or half forward. Mid sized. Does he have a set defined position. No. It means he’s really a back stop type of player. A filler.

Yet we only have to look at a bloke who has starred for the Pies over the last 3 years. Jeremy Howe (j-ho).  He is the same prototype as Smith. It’s a shame J-Ho is injured as I would get Smith to watch J-ho in action. 
 

The issue with Joel is his footy IQ. It takes time and he does and will make mistakes. But he’s got athletic ability and can be very handy. 

At the moment he’s probably slotted in as a fringe type player. 25-30.  I think he’s probably one who might ask or be considered for a trade option at end of 2020. 

Agree with the Howe comparison. He should also watch the Gold Coast defender from last week.

On 7/13/2020 at 3:09 PM, buck_nekkid said:

I would like to see him on the wing.  Good athlete, can take a mark and reasonable by foot.

I don't think he has a good enough understanding of the game just yet to play on the wing. If given the chance, he may yet get there, but I doubt it. Nevertheless,  in the games he has played this year, while he has made his share of mistakes, he has looked more comfortable knowing what to do when he has the ball. In previous years, once he had the ball he looked more like a deer in the headlights with no idea what to do next. 

His future might depend a lot on what list sizes look like next year. I can't see any club being able to hold on to too many "project" players. We may have to make some tough decisions.

We should bring in Joel Smith to replace the slow, broken down  T Mac.  We need his athleticism and speed up forward similar to what LJ was giving us.   Some unpredictability and a nice foil for Weid.

Flashback to the final JLT game of 2019  -   Joel Smith had 11 disposals, 6 marks and kicked 4.0.   He kicked a couple the week before, so he had 6 goals in two JLT games and was looking primed heading into Round 1.

And then this happened -

'Smith, meanwhile, could be sidelined for up to six weeks after a groin injury, which he played through in the club's final JLT Community Series against Brisbane to assist with rotations, worsened.'

I am sure we all remember that Dave Misson classic which destroyed Joels season when he finally had some form and looked at home up forward.

Get him in, play him forward and back him in to be hungry to save his career!

Edited August 23, 20204 yr by Pickett2Jackson

He is a natural forward and looked in form in the preseason.

Then they decided to play him back.

Like Harmes could ruin his career

Just now, DeeZee said:

He is a natural forward and looked in form in the preseason.

Then they decided to play him back.

Like Harmes could ruin his career

 

Yes.  Hes a forward.  Totally lost down back.  Another ridiculous decision from our coaching staff.

2 hours ago, Pickett2Jackson said:

We should bring in Joel Smith to replace the slow, broken down  T Mac.  We need his athleticism and speed up forward similar to what LJ was giving us.   Some unpredictability and a nice foil for Weid.

Flashback to the final JLT game of 2019  -   Joel Smith had 11 disposals, 6 marks and kicked 4.0.   He kicked a couple the week before, so he had 6 goals in two JLT games and was looking primed heading into Round 1.

And then this happened -

'Smith, meanwhile, could be sidelined for up to six weeks after a groin injury, which he played through in the club's final JLT Community Series against Brisbane to assist with rotations, worsened.'

I am sure we all remember that Dave Misson classic which destroyed Joels season when he finally had some form and looked at home up forward.

Get him in, play him forward and back him in to be hungry to save his career!

Go to the naughty corner right now, you are speaking too much logic, which our coaches do not seem to have.?

I feel Goodwin has half plan A which is go out boys and play; after 2 min of watching him after the game( yes i lasted 2 whole min, i felt more angry then us losing the bloody game) all i got from it, was how good the bulldogs are about three times, that was enough for me, to ??%^*&*^ rage. So i feel we might be in whole lot of *&#^ unless Goodwin and co have a light bulb moment or we get out our old friend the demon broom once again. ?

2 hours ago, Pickett2Jackson said:

We should bring in Joel Smith to replace the slow, broken down  T Mac.  We need his athleticism and speed up forward similar to what LJ was giving us.   Some unpredictability and a nice foil for Weid.

Flashback to the final JLT game of 2019  -   Joel Smith had 11 disposals, 6 marks and kicked 4.0.   He kicked a couple the week before, so he had 6 goals in two JLT games and was looking primed heading into Round 1.

And then this happened -

'Smith, meanwhile, could be sidelined for up to six weeks after a groin injury, which he played through in the club's final JLT Community Series against Brisbane to assist with rotations, worsened.'

I am sure we all remember that Dave Misson classic which destroyed Joels season when he finally had some form and looked at home up forward.

Get him in, play him forward and back him in to be hungry to save his career!

Its a good call.

I have been thinking in a similar vein.

When do we stop playing guys who the game has gone past and give blokes who'll get the job done a go?

It's actually a tougher call then you think because effectively you're telling T Mac (as per your example) his career is over.

 

Is he a forward?  Apart from a few goals in a pre-season game, what has he done to suggest he'll be any good there?

I was happy to give him time to develop down back, but I'm not sure if he's going to solve many issues by getting a run up forward.  He strikes me as a very athletics, but low football IQ, type of player, and we don't really need that right now.

Joel Smith has zero football smarts. Will be delisted at year end. Better off playing Brown.

5 hours ago, bobby1554 said:

Joel Smith has zero football smarts. Will be delisted at year end. Better off playing Brown.

Agree. His footy IQ is poor and not the answer imo. I know others don’t agree, but I think the Kangas could look at him and whilst a punt, we could try to grab the out of favour Mason Wood off the Roos as a swap. 

Good luck to him and I'd love him to prove me wrong... but he's just not a talented footballer.
I have not idea what he's done to endear himself to so many on Demonland, but I have never seen anything that says he will be a quality player.  Whether it be forward or back, I've never seen him play a good match at AFL level.

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Good luck to him and I'd love him to prove me wrong... but he's just not a talented footballer.
I have not idea what he's done to endear himself to so many on Demonland, but I have never seen anything that says he will be a quality player.  Whether it be forward or back, I've never seen him play a good match at AFL level.

I’ve put it down to who his old man is. 

Edited August 23, 20204 yr by Ethan Tremblay