22 minutes ago, Swooper1987 said:

Based on Goodwin's post match comments he gave Gawn 5 and Viney 4.  I think Dew didn't vote for Viney. Not sure how he saw Tracc as a 5 vote game given he went at 40% by foot but he is having a wonderful season and he did have a significant impact on the game.

Not sure post game comments are a good guide to voting. 

Petracca may have butchered the ball but his impact on the game and the result was huge.  Glad to see he featured well in the votes as many on here didn't give him much credit for what he did do and focused on what he didn't do.

28 minutes ago, Forest Demon said:

Max's best game of the year by far imo. I didn't see Goldstein's game, so can't comment specifically on that. I did see NicNat's though, and no way did he have a better game than Gawn.

I also saw Natanui's game and he wasn't even the best ruckman on the ground, let alone of the round.  I thought O'Brien took the points in the end.  Must have been for his phone gesture at the end.

Surely big Max wouldn't mind if he wasn't in Campbell's team of the round though!

Goldstein seems to have wound back the clock this season.

Agree.  Nic Nat didn’t even beat O’Brien.  It’s crazy!! 

33 minutes ago, BigFez said:

I also saw Natanui's game and he wasn't even the best ruckman on the ground, let alone of the round.  I thought O'Brien took the points in the end.  Must have been for his phone gesture at the end.

Surely big Max wouldn't mind if he wasn't in Campbell's team of the round though!

Goldstein seems to have wound back the clock this season.

Let's be honest, Campbell Brown is about as switched on as a Trump supporter. His choices are baffling. 

I also loved the fact that whenever Bennell had or went near the ball the 'Class' barometer went through the roof. He is a very, very gifted footballer.

 

Edited July 13, 20204 yr by dieter

8 minutes ago, dieter said:

I also loved the fact that whenever Bennell had or went near the ball the 'Class' barometer went through the roof. He is a very, very gifted footballer.

 

Indeed dieter, just look at the play with Gus dishing to O Mac and the kick forward to Bennell which leads to a Weid mark and goal. Gathers the ball and sums it perfectly, doesn’t waste precious seconds by swinging on to his preferred foot, a 40-50m left foot kick deep inside 50 to a one on one. Harley doesn’t need many possessions to have an impact. 

3 hours ago, Demonland said:

Surely Campbell Brown is extracting the urine. 

No Viney or Gawn. Ellis? Really? Good player that kicked two of the [censored] goals. 

This is what it means to be an unfashionable (losing) team.

But we don't want to be begging for pats on the head from the likes of Brown anyway.

Victories on the field are the only things that count.

On 7/12/2020 at 7:05 PM, DeeZee said:

I was very impressed with how composed Viney was.

He gets maligned at times for his kicking, but he was clever last night.

Great effort from him but its been long overdue i feel. We know what he can do but consistency is the key. 

A player that is vital for our success.

On 7/12/2020 at 10:13 PM, GoGetRossLyon said:

Analog all the way

Like olivers handballing.

I watched the replay last night. The first replay i have watched all year and since our last win 2019. When we win, and play ok it is something i really enjoy.

It is a different experience obviously  but its funny when you know the result and there is not the emotion and fear of losing how you can see things differently. 

i posted my reflections on the game earlier in this thread so won't repeat those comments. But here are some random reflections from the replay:

• I though the commentary was bad when i watched it live but it was actually worse than i remembered. Really just a joke.
• The model of having head play by play caller (hudson) and two ex footy jocks in the box just talking to each other about their own opinions like they were at the pub (and providing zero useful analysis), with a boundary rider whose job is seemingly to get injury reports wrong and make wise cracks to each other is just ridiculous.
• Look at the EPL. One commentator. Who often doesn't talk and just lets the pictures tell the story. Or the socceroos coverage. Hill as the main caller - smart, erudite, knows the game inside out and has a good voice for calling a game augmented with an ex footballer who actually provides helpful input, analysis and responds to questions form Hill. And then at half time have the panel of footy jocks guffawing. Perfect.
• The commentary  mess was summed up for me at one point when Lyon and Brown were banging on about tacos and red mist,  repeating a conversation that had 10 times already whilst the ball was in play. Rankine did something or other and Hudson, the play by play caller, said  whoa look at that - and then apologized for interrupting! Sheesh
• Traccs kicking was poor (really Lyon and Brown, do you need to point that out again!) but he played much better than i thought - so powerful in the contest. On the cusp of becoming a true A grader and surely will be  AA this year 
• And actually a couple of Tracc's kicks were not bad as gaddy and browny made out  
• For example the one where he burst out of the centre and went to for goal rather than pass to weed. As his second goal showed he can easily kick 55 metres and he was on the run kicking from about 60 so it was shot he could have well made. He just didn't flush it. And i have been wanting to see him take more of those sort of shots
• I was surprised to read after the game that Harley had the equal highest score involvements but  his influence on the game was more apparent watching the replay - his talent is so obvious that even if you had never watched a game of football it would be evident. Uses his body beautifully, knows where to be and has that skill that only the best players in any team sport has - an ability to know what is around him, as evidenced by some of his handballs 
• At the risk of banging on about brown and gaddy one those handballs was to max and they knocked him for being too hollywood and used it as an example of the team transferring pressure.
• Live i thought that seemed a bit tough and on the replay it was evident it was just nonsense. Harley was hot, if tackled he risks a free against and a shot on goal. He hits gawn perfectly but rather than take the ball Maxy decides to thump it forward. Which was max's error not Harley''s
• Two bits of plays summed up perfectly what Harley brings to the team (and what we have been sorely missing):
• Winning a one on one contest on the HFF, finding space and kicking the ball 50 plus metres on his non preferred foot to the forwards advantage to set up Weeds first goal
• The second, and more critical involvement, was his handball receive hard on the  boundary on the wing, running 15 odd metres, balancing up and kicking with enough penetration and depth to get over the back of the contest giving hannan a good chance of marking it (and the suns players no chance - how often this year has the defender marked in that exact scenario?) but when he didn't, be able to run on to it and set up Weeds second goal. A goal that arguably won us the game  
• No disrespect to any player who has played in the interim but Harley is in my opinion the most talented player that has played at the demons since Robbie retired.
• Hard to overstate the importance of Harley i reckon. If he stays fit and plays for most of the season  we are a chance of making finals. If not i doubt we will.
• Melksham was better. Even though he did not have a stand out game the most important thing from my perspective there was none of the selfishness that has been so evident this year. Good move by goody to get him up higher and in the play. I''m really pleased he was better as we simply can't afford to have player with his skill and talent available but not playing seniors
• Lever was also better and great to see him involved more. Really like him playing higher as it plays to his strengths and he becomes a threat not a negator. Another good move by goody
• Interestingly in the radio interview with max he mentioned, i think (it was quick) that Lever and Melksham were added to the leadership group last week. If that is the case another good move from the club as the proof was in the pudding with their games
• In that interview Slobbo specifically asks about the influence of Omac - fascinating response 
• I was perplexed by the decision to drop him as, as i pointed out prior to the blues games i think Omac is critical from a structural perspective, in particular his role of last line sweeper (a very tricky role -  as noted elsewhere maxy said he is the best reader of the play in the team - a key skill for that sweeper role).
• However it is easy to be critical of the decision to drop him. But it may well have been a very clever decision by Goody and as shocking as it might seem Goody might have known things fans didn't.
• Maxy said something quite revealing - that omac is very important for the team, that the role he plays is super important, particularly in terms of allowing May and Lever to be more damaging. But that Omac also has to perform.
• I suspect goody and perhaps the leadership team put the acid on Oscar to say you are better than a journeyman and role player and we expect to see it. We need to see it. And that Goody reinforced this message in the tried and true way by dropping him and making it clear he was no lock to come back into the side.
• True or not Omac, as many Demonlanders have noted, played with much more confidence and much more aggression. Perhaps it is my rampant Omac confirmation bias but to my eye he also looked a bit quicker. King out marked him on the lead a couple of times but he is quick and omac was right on his tail.
• There has been a lot of talk about the back line for the last 2-3 years, but by in large the focus has been on our bigs. But as i have noted a few times over that period the real issue we have down back is not that the opposition bigs get on top of us, it is the small and medium forwards that hurt us. And again that was the case against the suns.
• The Suns only took 4 marks inside 50 (remarkably we took 12) and King and Day had almost no influence on the game - ironically Kings one goal was from a crumb. Eight of their nine goals were kicked by small or mediums  - Rankine, Ellis, Fioroni and Weller. We need to sort this issue.

 

Edited July 14, 20204 yr by binman

3 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Not sure post game comments are a good guide to voting. 

Petracca may have butchered the ball but his impact on the game and the result was huge.  Glad to see he featured well in the votes as many on here didn't give him much credit for what he did do and focused on what he didn't do.

The fact is that Trac is now an impact footballer Get it in his hands and we benefit big time ie goals assists and team play with class (Don't know why he had a 40% efficiency in kicking as he did not seem to be under any more pressure )

Our big task ( or Goody's more to the point )is to get Clarry JackV Gus and Harmsey Up to speed say 75/80 % lime Trac is and to do what Jack and Clarry did compose themselves and make use of the ball.

No doubt if This problem Can be solved or improved we will be a 20% better team and our forwards will benefit no end. 
 

Oh and Gawny must practice that quick handball and short kick to open up the play instead of his  high looping kicks down the line.
 

And actually all players need to get composure and skill in disposal like Harley. Loved the value of Mitch Hannan who had a very good team role and result orientated  game As per a good half forwards. Kiddie is generally a good 10/14 disposal team player and will hit the scoreboard regularly very soon no doubt.

So many potential positives out of Sat night but many a work in progress.

How far we develop those Disposal skills and team play will determine a near finals berth or anywhere between say 8th and  4th!!!

1 minute ago, 58er said:

The fact is that Trac is now an impact footballer Get it in his hands and we benefit big time ie goals assists and team play with class (Don't know why he had a 40% efficiency in kicking as he did not seem to be under any more pressure )

Our big task ( or Goody's more to the point )is to get Clarry JackV Gus and Harmsey Up to speed say 75/80 % lime Trac is and to do what Jack and Clarry did compose themselves and make use of the ball.

No doubt if This problem Can be solved or improved we will be a 20% better team and our forwards will benefit no end. 
 

Oh and Gawny must practice that quick handball and short kick to open up the play instead of his  high looping kicks down the line.
 

And actually all players need to get composure and skill in disposal like Harley. Loved the value of Mitch Hannan who had a very good team role and result orientated  game As per a good half forwards. Kiddie is generally a good 10/14 disposal team player and will hit the scoreboard regularly very soon no doubt.

So many potential positives out of Sat night but many a work in progress.

How far we develop those Disposal skills and team play will determine a near finals berth or anywhere between say 8th and  4th!!!

Sorry Kiddie means Kossie! 

5 hours ago, Cards13 said:

It’s going to be interesting to see how teams adjust to the change in style and then if we go back to chaos ball to counter the adjustment.

 

I think that's when we become a good team and a tough opposition week in week out.

When the players are able to adjust mid game it will be really difficult to counter quickly and shift momentum for opposition and may see a string of goals before they readjust

36 minutes ago, binman said:

I watched the replay last night. The first replay i have watched all year and since our last win 2019. When we win, and play ok it is something i really enjoy.

It is a different experience obviously  but its funny when you know the result and there is not the emotion and fear of losing how you can see things differently. 

i posed my reflections on the game earlier in this thread so won't repeat those comments. But here are some random reflections from the replay:

• I though the commentary was bad when i watched it live but it was actually worse than i remembered. Really just a joke.
• The model of having head play by play caller (hudson) and two ex footy jocks in the box just talking to each other about their own opinions like they were at the pub (and providing zero useful analysis), with a boundary rider whose job is seemingly to get injury reports wrong and make wise cracks to each other is just ridiculous.
• Look at the EPL. One commentator. Who often doesn't talk and just lets the pictures tell the story. Or the aocceross covergae. Hill as the main caller - smart, erudite, knows the game inside out and has a good voice for calling a gme augmented with an ex footballer who actually provides helpful input, analysis and responds to questions form Hill. And then at half time have the panel of footy jocks guffawing. Perfect.
• The commentary  mess was summed up for me at one point when Lyon and brown were banging on about tacos and red mist and repeating an conversation that had been made 10 times already whilst the ball was in play and rankine did something or other and Hudson, the play by play caller, said something like whoa look at that - and then apologized for interrupting! Sheesh
• Traccs kicking was poor (really Lyon and Brown, do you need to point that out again!) but he played much better than i thought - so powerful in the contest. On the cups of becoming a true A grader and surely will be a very, very good chance of being AA this year 
• And actually a couple of Tracc's kicks were not bad as gaddy and browny made out  
• For example the one where he burst out of the centre and went to for goal rather than pass to weed. As his second goal showed he can easily kick 55 metres and he was on the run kicking from about 60 so it was shot he could have well made. He just didn't flush it. And i have been wanting to see him take more of those sort of shots
• I was surprised to read after the game that harley had the equal highest score involvements but for his influence on the game was more apparent watching the replay - his talent is obvious that even if you had nver watched a game of football it would be evident. Uses his body beautifully, knows where to be and has that skill that only the best players in any team sport has - an ability to know what is around him, as evidenced by some of his handballs behind him (
• At the risk of banging on about brown and gaddy one those handablls was to max and they knocked him for being too hollywood and used it as an example of the team transferring pressure. Live i thought that seemed a bit tough and on the replay it was evident it was just nonsense. Harley was hot, if tacked he risks free against and a shot on goal. He hits gawn perfectly but rather than take the ball Maxy decides to thump it forward. Which was max's error not harleys)
• Two bits of plays summed up perfectly what Harley brings to the team (and what we have been sorely missing).
• Winning a one on one contest on the HFF, finding space and kicking the ball 50 plus metres on his non preferred foot  to the forwards advantage to set up Weeds first goal
• The second, and more critical involvement, was his handball receive hard on the on the boundary on the wing, running 15 odd metres, balancing up and kicking with enough penetration and depth to get over the back of the contest giving hannan a good chance of marking it (and the suns players no chance - how often this year has the defender marked in that exact scenario?) but when he didn't run on to set up Weeds second goal. A goal that arguably won us the game  
• No disrespect to any player who ha played in the interim but harley is in my opinion the most talented player that  has played at the demons since robbie retired. Hard to overstate the importance of Harley i reckon. If he stays fit and plays for most of the season  we are a chance of making finals. If not i doubt we will.
• Melksham was better. Even though he di not have stand out the most important thing from my perspective there was none of the selfishness that has been so evident this year. good move by goody to get him up higher and the play. I;m really pleased he was better as we simply can't afford to have player with his skill and talent fit but not playing
• Lever was also better and great to see him involved more. Really like him playing higher as it plays to strength and he becomes threat not a negater. Another good move by goody
• Interestingly in the radio interview with max he mentioned, i think (i was quick) that Lever and melksham were added to the leadership group last week. if that is the case another good move from the club as the proof was in the pudding with their games
• In that interview Slobbo specifically asks about the influence of Omac - fascinating response 
• I was perplexed by the decision to drop him as, as i pointed out prior to the blues games i think Omac is critical from a structural perspective, in particularly his role of last line sweeper(a very tricky role -  as noted elsewhere maxy said he is the best reader of the play  in the team -a key skill for that sweeper role).
• However it is easy to be critical of the decision to drop him. But it may well have been a very clever decision by goody and as shocking as it might seem Goody might have known things fans didn't.
• Maxy said something quite revealing - that omac is very important for the team, that the role he plays is super important, particularly in terms of allowing May and Lever to be more damaging. But that Omac also has to perform.
• I suspect goody and perhaps the leadership team put the acid on Oscar to say you are better than a journeyman and role player and we expect to see it. We need to see it. And that Goody reinforced this message in the tried and true way by dropping him and making it clear he was no lock to come back into the side.
• True or not Omac, as many Demonlanders have noted, played with much more confidence and much more aggression. Perhaps it is my rampant Omac confirmation bias but to my he he also looked a bit quicker. king outmarked him on the lead a couple of times but he is quick and omac was right on his tail.
• There has been a lot of talk about back line for the last 2-3 years.but by in large the focus has been on our bigs. But as i have noted a few times over that period the real issue we have down back is that it is not the opposition bigs that get on top of us, it is the small and medium forwards. An again that was the case against the suns.
• The Suns only took 4 marks inside 50 (remarkably we took 12)  and King and Day had almost no influence on the game - ironically Kings one goal was from a crumb. Eight of their nine goals were kicked by small or mediums  - Rankine, Ellis, Fioroni and Weller. We need to sort this issue.

 

I actually liked Brownys commentary on Weid. The excitement he showed when Weid crashed a pack of 4 Suns and brought ball to ground showed why we need special comments. None of Huddo, Gerard or Bruce would have picked up on that

1 minute ago, Pennant St Dee said:

I actually liked Brownys commentary on Weid. The excitement he showed when Weid crashed a pack of 4 Suns and brought ball to ground showed why we need special comments. None of Huddo, Gerard or Bruce would have picked up on that

Insert not sure if serious gif here

46 minutes ago, binman said:

• For example the one where he burst out of the centre and went to for goal rather than pass to weed. As his second goal showed he can easily kick 55 metres and he was on the run kicking from about 60 so it was shot he could have well made. He just didn't flush it. And i have been wanting to see him take more of those sort of shots

Great post binman. This type of play is interesting - I think someone else earlier in this thread (I've forgotten who now, sorry) mentioned this particular shot as a calculated risk rather than a selfish play that the oafs in the box made it out to be, and I agree with that conclusion. Petracca is more than capable of that type of shot and would have been lauded as a genius if he had pulled it off. In the same way that I was stoked when he took responsibility for his kick in the last quarter and drilled it, I'm more than happy for him to try and take these opportunities when they present. If they don't come off, so be it. 

By the way, you may think you overdid the criticism of Brown and Lyon, but I don't think there's such thing as over-criticism of the current state of commentary in our footy. I've been harsh on Lyon and Brown too, but they're really just this week's symptoms of the problem. The commentators have plumbed to such low depths that they're ruining the experience watching football for me.

3 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Not sure post game comments are a good guide to voting. 

Petracca may have butchered the ball but his impact on the game and the result was huge.  Glad to see he featured well in the votes as many on here didn't give him much credit for what he did do and focused on what he didn't do.

Either way the coaches gave Gawn and Petracca 5 each between them. Whoever gave Christian 5, the other gave him 2 which is strange. With max either best or second best on the ground behind Christian.  

11 minutes ago, Demon17 said:

Whoever gave Christian 5, the other gave him 2 which is strange. 

This type of discrepancy would be because the opposing coach will be assessing on different criteria to the coach assessing his own players. The player's coach knows the role the player was supposed to play, how well the player performed it vs prescribed, and how that exact role impacted on the result of the game. The opposition coach doesn't know any of that and will just be determining how much hurt factor the player delivered. Of course, we still don't know which coach is which.

On 7/13/2020 at 12:51 PM, Josh said:

This is staggering, has anyone watched the replay and seen if they done anything but out to the left had flank to Gawn?

Didn't even see the old barrel down the middle (which seems to be our only other option)

Seems strange to not mix it up at all. 

Yeah with the pace we have with some of our team, I thought the odd kick to space might mix it up.

 

1 hour ago, Pennant St Dee said:

I think that's when we become a good team and a tough opposition week in week out.

When the players are able to adjust mid game it will be really difficult to counter quickly and shift momentum for opposition and may see a string of goals before they readjust

Fingers crossed it only takes us a week to adjust... 

On 7/13/2020 at 12:51 PM, Josh said:

This is staggering, has anyone watched the replay and seen if they done anything but out to the left had flank to Gawn?

Didn't even see the old barrel down the middle (which seems to be our only other option)

Seems strange to not mix it up at all. 

They did. Later in the game other players, Salem mostly I think, were taking kick outs and May was providing another marking target.

 

1 hour ago, Nasher said:

This type of discrepancy would be because the opposing coach will be assessing on different criteria to the coach assessing his own players. The player's coach knows the role the player was supposed to play, how well the player performed it vs prescribed, and how that exact role impacted on the result of the game. The opposition coach doesn't know any of that and will just be determining how much hurt factor the player delivered. Of course, we still don't know which coach is which.

There are players in the comp where opposition coaches salivate over them. NicNat and petracca fit into that camp

Lots of us saw Petraccas turnovers and mistakes but he clearly caught the eye of Dew. he's that kind of player.

2 hours ago, binman said:

 

 Perhaps it is my rampant Omac confirmation bias but to my eye he also looked a bit quicker. King out marked him on the lead a couple of times but he is quick and omac was right on his tail.

Yes, you do have a rampant Omac confirmation bias but I think your observations are spot on. Also liked his repeat efforts

21 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

There are players in the comp where opposition coaches salivate over them. NicNat and petracca fit into that camp

Lots of us saw Petraccas turnovers and mistakes but he clearly caught the eye of Dew. he's that kind of player.

Absolutely. Petracca had (and has had all year) a great impact on Saturday night but he was the third best player in the Melbourne side against GC. NicNat at best drew level with O'Brien yet picked up 5 votes for 7 disposals and one goal.  Go figure!  As I said previously, it's all in the eye of the beholder.

3 hours ago, binman said:

• Winning a one on one contest on the HFF, finding space and kicking the ball 50 plus metres on his non preferred foot to the forwards advantage to set up Weeds first goal
•  

I'm not sure that kick was to the forwards avantage. Bennell got pressured and hacked it 50m up in the air. Neither Weideman or Lukosius had any idea what to do but Weid seemed to find the drop of the ball faster and take the mark. The kick to Bennell from Oscar was good but not quite perfect to allow an easy and run on, which was a shame because then we might've seen what Bennell can really do. We just haven't been able to get Harley in to space much, which happens at half forward, hopefully that comes soon.

3 hours ago, binman said:

• There has been a lot of talk about the back line for the last 2-3 years, but by in large the focus has been on our bigs. But as i have noted a few times over that period the real issue we have down back is not that the opposition bigs get on top of us, it is the small and medium forwards that hurt us. And again that was the case against the suns.
• The Suns only took 4 marks inside 50 (remarkably we took 12)  and King and Day had almost no influence on the game - ironically Kings one goal was from a crumb. Eight of their nine goals were kicked by small or mediums  - Rankine, Ellis, Fioroni and Weller. We need to sort this issue.

Some of that is on the talls. Lever is dropping marks (or getting spoiled or spoiling his own team mates) and May just doesn't take enough marks, he loves to body spoil his opponent under the ball and his marking technique is poor. The best way to take out the smalls is to mark it to begin with.

Otherwise yes, our smalls just aren't all that good right now and we need them to play better or to find improvements. The Suns got a bit lucky with some of the goals too.

3 hours ago, binman said:

Interestingly in the radio interview with max he mentioned, i think (it was quick) that Lever and Melksham were added to the leadership group last week. If that is the case another good move from the club as the proof was in the pudding with their games

That's a bold call given their form. Lever I can at least understand, his best footy has a lot of leadership characteristics. Melksham has to stop giving away 50m penalties and has to start giving a baseline of effort defensively. The piece of play where Vanders ran straight passed him to tackle an opponent was embarrassing.