CHANGES: Rd 03 vs Essendon

[Bitter but optimistic 22,239]

7 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

I would like to hear more from the experts as to whether there is room for both Smith and Lever in the backline. They seem to be playing similar styles.

Who do we have to go with Tipungwuti?

No idea who'll pick him up Jim.

Hunt and Picket, who have the pace, will be at the other end of the ground. 

[rpfc 28,417]

11 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

You wonder if McDonald is a bit like Patton.Big and relatively slow. Has the game passed them by. If so it's a worry because we are definitely lacking the mobile forward.

Fritsch being on target would help

Bailey now has the look in the eye when he goes back to kick for goal of someone who is certain that ‘this won’t go well’ as opposed to someone trying to simply kick for 6 points.

[rjay 24,924]

2 hours ago, DeeZee said:

Out TMac, Jackson, Jones.

In Weideman , Pickett Hibberd.

Hibberd to go back and Smith to go forward.

Jetta has also been pretty shaky the last few games and is close to getting dropped for mine. So Jetta for Lockhart Is another possible change.

Smith is even worse in the forward half.

Has no idea...

[old dee 23,790]

47 minutes ago, Tarax Club said:

Hopefully Sunday morning with a latte has kicked in and for some the emotion of a close shave has cooled to almost rational. The merry-go-round mentality of changes for next week that many here appear to ascribe to 'beggar's belief' (quote). Perhaps brainwashed at demondland is more apt.

Brainwashed by the MFC is closer to the truth. Poor team selection is at the root of yesterday's problems. Playing Jackson instead of the Weid or Brown. Harmes and Smith in the back line. Very ordinary decisions from a very ordinary FD.

[binman 42,941]

2 hours ago, Redleg said:

Our biggest problem is turnovers and keeping possession

You are exactly right. Has been for years. But with scoring so low now it is even more damaging - each goal it costs is relatively worth more. Like soccer.

This issue is the single biggest barrier for us winning a flag. Im amazed it doesn't get more focus on DL and elsewhere. You can talk about structure, systems, mental strength etc etc all you like but unless you can reliably hit targets you are stuffed.

And as I think you pointed out red the issue after quarter time was not that we were lairising or took the foot off or were mentally weak. The issue was when the blues raised their pressure our skill deserted us and we missed target after target.

They applied zero pressure in the first, as the commentators kept banging on about. Easy to hit targets with no pressure. You think Tomlinson hits tbat cute over the top kick to hunt if he was about to get tackled? When we are smashing the opposition we look like Harlem globe trotters. That pressure drops off (As it often seems to because players like his stop gut running) and the opposition's pressure increases and rhe system completely breaks down. 

I wish Goodwin would stop talking in silly footy speak. The connection he keeps banging on about is nothing more than the ability to kick a football accurately to a team mate.

We are very lucky the blues 'connection' was marginally worse than ours. And that they didn't turn up till quarter time.

I like Lockhart. I like Smith. But both are average kicks. And the most dangerous spot to have average kicks is on defence. 

Edited June 14, 2020 by binman

[Tarax Club 3,909]

51 minutes ago, old dee said:

Brainwashed by the MFC is closer to the truth. Poor team selection is at the root of yesterday's problems. Playing Jackson instead of the Weid or Brown. Harmes and Smith in the back line. Very ordinary decisions from a very ordinary FD.

Agreed there's a lot of it about. Within the footy bubble and beyond. That being said there is certainly evidence of perceptive and insightful contributions here. Hopefully those in positions able to enact change choose wisely and  provide creative solutions over time. Much prefer critical thinking over group think though, as this week's result fades into the rear view mirror.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Tarax Club

[Lord Travis 10,730]

We need to find forwards, fast.

Weideman is a definite in if fit. He would've given us more than both TMac and Jackson today. Stop throwing him around the ground in the ruck and give him a proper run up forward.

Pickett is a definite in. We need his spark, dash, crumbing and goal scoring. 

Brown might be an in too if we're willing to swing the axe.

Smith definite out. He played one of the worst games I've ever witnessed. Was on 0 disposals at half time, finished with 7, mostly ineffective. He directly cost us 3 of their 8 goals from poor defensive decisions. Definite out, and unless he can make it as a forward I'd delist him. He's a great athlete, but not a footballers @sshole.

Tmac had a shocker, and realistically has played maybe 4-5 good quarters in 12 months now. He might be shot.

Jones had a poor game, gave no leadership, ballwinning or drive.

Melksham was ineffective. 

Jackson is obviously not ready for AFL level and shouldn't have played. 

Jetta was poor again.

Harmes lacked impact.

Fritsch needs to learn how to kick again. In his debut season he was a brilliant kick. Since then he's degenerated into statistically one of the worst converters in the entire league. Since 2018 his goal kicking accuracy is 52%, but set shots sit much lower at 34%, making him one of the worst converters in the league. We need it fixed, as he's one of the few forwards who actually generates shots at goal!

Right enough rambling.

IN: Pickett, Weideman, OMac, Lockhart

OUT: Smith, Jackson, Jones, and whoever trains poorly this week

[titan_uranus 25,018]

55 minutes ago, binman said:

You are exactly right. Has been for years. But with scoring so low now it is even more damaging - each goal it costs is relatively worth more. Like soccer.

This issue is the single biggest barrier for us winning a flag. Im amazed it doesn't get more focus on DL and elsewhere. You can talk about structure, systems, mental strength etc etc all you like but unless you can reliably hit targets you are stuffed.

And as I think you pointed out red the issue after quarter time was not that we were lairising or took the foot off or were mentally weak. The issue was when the blues raised their pressure our skill deserted us and we missed target after target.

They applied zero pressure in the first, as the commentators kept banging on about. Easy to hit targets with no pressure. You think Tomlinson hits tbat cute over the top kick to hunt if he was about to get tackled? When we are smashing the opposition we look like Harlem globe trotters. That pressure drops off (As it often seems to because players like his stop gut running) and the opposition's pressure increases and rhe system completely breaks down. 

I wish Goodwin would stop talking in silly footy speak. The connection he keeps banging on about is nothing more than the ability to kick a football accurately to a team mate.

We are very lucky the blues 'connection' was marginally worse than ours. And that they didn't turn up till quarter time.

I like Lockhart. I like Smith. But both are average kicks. And the most dangerous spot to have average kicks is on defence. 

Too simplistic IMO, binman.

The mid-forward connection issue is a real one and it's more than just foot skills and pressure. It includes forwards knowing when to lead and where to lead to, keeping a forward structure which doesn't continually get sucked up the ground, having forwards who can crash packs and bring the ball to ground (and/or hold marks). It's not all as simple as opposition pressure and foot skills.

Yesterday wasn't about our mid-forward connection, though. It wasn't a case of us having repeat inside 50s going to waste. It was a case of our midfield losing control and being unable to get it back, combined with a lack of forward/midfield defensive pressure.

[picket fence 17,166]

4 hours ago, Redleg said:

There is the usual get out of jail card. 
The real problems are still there as I have banged on about for years.
We lack skill, brains and good coaching to adapt to run ons by the opposition. 
Carlton came back when they started winning  clearances, we turned over the ball and then lost structures. 
Watch the game again people and you will see how many times we turnover the ball, when we have possession, by poor kicking and poor decisions, in kicking to 1 on 2 or 3 opponents. Why? Keep possession and we win easily. 
Also when Pittonet improved in the ruck, we did nothing different. Max should have belted the ball forward to change the dynamic and stop the clearances. 
Our lack of disposal skill has killed us for years and continues to do so. 
Lastly, the Coach seems to do nothing to change what is happening. Why? 
Fix these areas and we are a reasonable side.

 

Your last two sentences are spot on and begs a very serious question especially 

"Lastly, the Coach seems to do nothing to change what is happening. Why"? 

[picket fence 17,166]

2 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

I’m just shocked at anyone who doesn’t have McDonald and Melksham out, they had zero positive impact between them.

I would be happier to see Mc Donald move to CHB SMITH to CHF and Weeds FF 

Melksham is one of our most creative players and I thought did a few nice things last night. He should not be in any danger of being dropped. Jones and ANB Most at Risk ANB Did little after quarter time.Jackson far too Raw at this stage.

Edited June 14, 2020 by picket fence

[Macca 16,967]

7 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Too simplistic IMO, binman.

The mid-forward connection issue is a real one and it's more than just foot skills and pressure. It includes forwards knowing when to lead and where to lead to, keeping a forward structure which doesn't continually get sucked up the ground, having forwards who can crash packs and bring the ball to ground (and/or hold marks). It's not all as simple as opposition pressure and foot skills.

Yesterday wasn't about our mid-forward connection, though. It wasn't a case of us having repeat inside 50s going to waste. It was a case of our midfield losing control and being unable to get it back, combined with a lack of forward/midfield defensive pressure.

You are correct with the evaluation of our forwards ... collectively,  they are below par in nearly all facets of forward play. 

And unless we can find some personell who do know how to play as forwards,  we won't be winning many games.

And I can fully understand why Jackson was/is preferred to Weideman & Brown ... Weideman won't play in front and is therefore of no value as a KPF whilst Brown is pure back up.

Small forwards who perform well generally need decent big key forwards to feed off ... so Kossie on his own is asking a bit much (if people here are thinking he'll be some sort of savior)

We could rest Jackson (I wouldn't) but his replacement won't improve the team IMO. 

Unfortunately our forward line improving might have to wait until the off-season.  In other words,  with a change of personell.  In the meantime,  in a year where we will struggle to figure,  we may as well get some game time into Jackson.  I was calling for his inclusion before the season for the same (above) reasoning.

T-Mac has regressed to a point where he is only getting a game because the cupboard is bare.  He'd otherwise be out.

Melksham is overrated,  Hannan jogs around, Spargo is too slow and Petracca is needed further afield whilst Fritsch can't kick straight. 

And our forward line pressure is not AFL standard.  Compare our forward line to Richmond's -  the difference is stark.

[picket fence 17,166]

Lever - May - Jetta

Rivers - Mc Donald T  - Salem

Tomo - Viney - Langdon

Trac - Smith - Melksham

Pickett - Weeds - Fritsch

Gawn - Oliver - Brayshaw

Bennell - Harmes - Jones ( just)  - Hunt

This is a stronger spine and potentially gives some marking targets up forward. Jones would not want to play another substandard game like yesterday and Melksham has been a most creative player over the years but average yesterday. Jackson is just too green at present. Although not a big fan ANB played Ok early but you cannot not have picket. I would play Jetta on Tippa. Kossie to play forward. Weeds comes in with instructions lead hard and if in doubt crash some packs, Same with Smith. T Mac is at Last chance hotel at CHB.

Thoughts??

Edited June 14, 2020 by picket fence

[Pipefitter 2,159]

Where do you even begin ?

Jackson was out of his league but still provided more than T-Mac. Tommy either plays defence or doesn’t play. The forward experiment is over. 
 

Jones has enough credits but I’d prob make some statements with dropping Melksham and Brayshaw.

[BigMacjnr 283]

17 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Too simplistic IMO, binman.

The mid-forward connection issue is a real one and it's more than just foot skills and pressure. It includes forwards knowing when to lead and where to lead to, keeping a forward structure which doesn't continually get sucked up the ground, having forwards who can crash packs and bring the ball to ground (and/or hold marks). It's not all as simple as opposition pressure and foot skills.

Yesterday wasn't about our mid-forward connection, though. It wasn't a case of us having repeat inside 50s going to waste. It was a case of our midfield losing control and being unable to get it back, combined with a lack of forward/midfield defensive pressure.

Agree with you there T_U. The problem both this year and last year in my opinion is the players aren't making multiple 'reads' and select a long downfield kick even if this isn't the best option. There were multiple times where the midfielders had won the ball and were streaming up the ground, with others alongside them, outnumbering their Carlton counterparts. Instead of continuing to run with the ball they would too often bomb the ball to TMac. Carlton caught onto it quickly and gambled towards him with double team which is why a lot of people are unhappy with his game. Also infuriated by players who took too long to move the ball on after we escaped from our defence. 2020 football is all about the counter-punch, quick ball movement before the other team can set up their defence, a 1 on 1 to the forward's advantage is better than waiting for a wide open short option with the defence all set up. 

It must be hard to be in our forwardline when our mids make seemingly erratic decisions. There wasn't much midfield rotation from what I saw and so this could have easily been the players tiring midway through the 2nd qtr. Why aren't the coaches changing up the rotations like they did in 2018 with multiple players running through the midfield and rotating through both the backline/forwardline so they are rested and don't take the obvious option? Harmes, Salem, Melksham etc could rotate through. Frequent lineup rotation changes makes it incredibly hard for opposition coaches to scheme against and helps us create mismatches instead of the other way around. 

Not sure if the 'zone' the backline in playing is what the coaches prescribed or a bad execution or both. I assume the concept came from basketball, but in basketball the players are positioned to be guarding like-for-like. There is no reason, with good communication that players execute 'switches' so that we don't have Jetta trying to defend 200cm+ giants. If we turn the ball over or the opposition gain a clearance and our defenders are 1 on 1, there shouldn't be any mismatches available for an easy hit-up which happened a bit too regularly yesterday. 

[dimmy 1,307]

30 minutes ago, Pipefitter said:

Where do you even begin ?

Jackson was out of his league but still provided more than T-Mac. Tommy either plays defence or doesn’t play. The forward experiment is over. 
 

Jones has enough credits but I’d prob make some statements with dropping Melksham and Brayshaw.

Some people just jump off the bandwagon pretty quickly.

Lever was our weak point. He is not accountable and is not providing the rebound he is employed to do. Hibberd's disposal would have been the reason for his omission. Rivers was serviceable in his 1st game (shwed potential . Nev is not physically made to defend against 200 cm people ....that should be Levers spot being one of the talls.

We have a side full of 180- 188 cms (mid sized nowadays).

Can Pickett come back in and who does he replace ? Hunt, ANB, Fritsch, Melksham ??

Wetering is a very good footballer and when he has support (as happened yesterday) it becomes really difficult. "Connectivity "means making decisions. TMac could have been used as decoy (team thing) because he was dealing with 2 blokes. Midfielders should realise that means there is a spare bloke somewhere. Their job is to find it ,which we did in 1st Q.

Brayshaw with limited time on the ball had 15 Poss and 5 tackles ( 4 clearances ) , a reasonable return. Again our problem is we have Petracca, Oliver, Viney, Brayshaw , (Harmes), ( Salem) Jones who can rotate ....... but what do they do /where do they go ,when they are not in the middles.

Bit harsh on Jackson !!! He is still a kid . Let him run around thinking he is a midsized player and learn his craft.

[binman 42,941]

1 hour ago, titan_uranus said:

Too simplistic IMO, binman.

The mid-forward connection issue is a real one and it's more than just foot skills and pressure. It includes forwards knowing when to lead and where to lead to, keeping a forward structure which doesn't continually get sucked up the ground, having forwards who can crash packs and bring the ball to ground (and/or hold marks). It's not all as simple as opposition pressure and foot skills.

Yesterday wasn't about our mid-forward connection, though. It wasn't a case of us having repeat inside 50s going to waste. It was a case of our midfield losing control and being unable to get it back, combined with a lack of forward/midfield defensive pressure.

Fair call.

You're right I'm being too simplistic saying connection is about accurate kicking. It is all the things you suggested.

And to add an element synergy. Instinctively knowing where everyone is. A big part of which is a predictable, well drilled system.

Which makes the decision to bring so.many new players in and changing your defensive unit and structure all the more perplexing. Hard in those circumstances to have connection.

All that adide we still have too many really poor kicks and too few elite kicks.

 

[P-man 13,366]

2 hours ago, binman said:

I like Lockhart. I like Smith. But both are average kicks. And the most dangerous spot to have average kicks is on defence. 

Eh? Lockhart is an average kick? We’ve been watching a different player. Far from average. At least by the standards of the rest of the side.

[bing181 9,234]

4 hours ago, Redleg said:

The cattle are not the problem here ... a lack of disposal skill under pressure. 

Contradictory statements.

The cattle are absolutely the problem here.

[Redleg 40,915]

8 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Contradictory statements.

The cattle are absolutely the problem here.

Yes I said it badly.

What I meant to say is that 1-2 changes doesn’t make us suddenly a good side, it is a club wide problem. 
Actually thought 2 of our best with the ball yesterday were 2 first gamers for the club, Bennell and Rivers.

[bing181 9,234]

1 hour ago, binman said:

You're right I'm being too simplistic saying connection is about accurate kicking.

You're not actually. It's all about accurate kicking. And decision-making. And the biggest area where it's an issue is in the midfield, with predictable results in the forward line.

[Vineytime 847]

So who plays on Stringer next week? 


TMac in for another tough day vs Hurley. 

[Deemania since 56 6,636]

22 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Good effort to suggest changes clearly without watching the game but they should be as follows:

OUT: T. McDonald, Melksham, Jackson
IN: Weideman, Pickett, Lockhart

Smith gets a reprive up forward where he belongs.

 

Just about the smartest selection. Hannan?

[Deemania since 56 6,636]

6 hours ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

No idea who'll pick him up Jim.

Hunt and Picket, who have the pace, will be at the other end of the ground. 

Our 'Special Assignment Man' should pick him up - Tracc.

[Wunders 397]

I wonder if Tmac's knee has killed his form - a physical limitation. For example, say he now has bone on bone in the knee, it's painful to run and jump (still possible, but it's there all the time)... then that would explain why:

• He isn't running opposition players off their feet anymore (remember he was pretty much our best endurance runner with Hogan and ANB almost always dominating our pre-season trails). Last 2 years he has been rehabbing and not doing these.
• He used to get out the back goals (because he ran them off their feet - haven't seen him get one in years).
• Hence, his reduced output on game day

It may also be that opposition teams can now rotate defenders on him (if it's not his knee). So when one get's tired the next moves to him. When we had Hogan we had both talls running hard and they couldn't handle it. Or it may be that we don't want him running all over the ground as we want him as the Hogan/target big in the forward line.. Although clearly, with Fritsch and Hunt playing out of the square this probably isn't it.

Just highlights to me how much Tom needs a 'Hogan' type to be the No1 key forward and we don't have it.

Also doesn't help that we can't kick to advantage

 

[Return to Glory 8,441]

8 hours ago, rjay said:

'Dazz', if we don't want to play 3 talls then T Mac should be the one to go.

He needs an absolute rocket.

...but it may not work, that good season forward equates to his good season back. We've never seen it again.

I hope we do, we need it.

Inclined to agree. If T Mac continues his statue impersonations, Hooker will give him a bath.