Good, I never warmed to two co-captains who would rather eat the football than share it with their team mates.

4 hours ago, rjay said:

This doesn't surprise me...

A bit of looking from the outside but also a little inside info.

Jack is a very focussed individual, he might lack a bit of empathy and understanding.

Wholistic leadership may not be a strong suit...

Also about to become a father for the first time, this year.? I think.

14 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Lets be honest, not surprising at all. Only reason why he was captain was the likes of McCartney and Goodwin who elevated him straight away. 

Now that the players have been given the opportunity to vote, this shows who they respect and look to as their leader. 

Never have rated Viney as a leader. I look at Lever, May and Gawn and they stand for everything you need in a leader. Commendable and respected. Viney is not that.

This comes across as quite pompous and naive. 

Viney had a bad year last year coming back from injury. He is a Demon through and through. Just like all of us here. This, along with the toughness that very few have, is surely enough to have you and anyone else show respect. The boy is one of us. He just gets to live our dreams as opposed to post about it. Don't bag him ffs. Look after and be proud of him. 

The world is a very different place and the expectations of 18-30 year olds is poles apart from what it used to be.

There is a place for “watch me do this tough thing” leadership, like Viney has, but you don’t need a title to be that person. Any teammate can inspire that way.

The majority of today’s player generation need much more rounded leadership and want to feel listened to and supported.

From interacting briefly with Jack personally and watching him talk in the media he just isn’t that rounded leader and he doesn’t have warmth or immediate connection to others. He projects as not that bright and super focussed on what he is doing. I’m guessing with no direct evidence he would be the sort of leader who may berate a teammate for a mistake rather than encourage them to keep going - a very dangerous approach unless you are 100% infallible yourself.

I’ve had some brief interactions personally with Gawn, one sticks out from 2015 family day before he had his now massive profile where he was immediately engaging and great with my then seven year old daughter who had no idea who he was. Gawn from how he talks clearly has much broader perspective, genuine humour (which generally makes people like you), can give inspiring speeches, and while not a MENSA candidate has Viney covered there. Plus by the nature of being a ruck his onfield role has the advantage of heavily being focussed on bringing his teammates into the game with his hit outs or giving them a chop out by drifting back to help in the backline. Similar to my guess on Viney as I don’t have direct evidence, Gawn strikes me as one who would set high standards but also is engaging enough to build enough rapport that teammates would be OK taking criticism from him, and he would also support teammates to get better and keep their confidence up when they inevitably make a mistake.

To me Gawn as captain vs. Viney is a no brainer.

10 hours ago, phuket demon said:

This comes across as quite pompous and naive. 

Viney had a bad year last year coming back from injury. He is a Demon through and through. Just like all of us here. This, along with the toughness that very few have, is surely enough to have you and anyone else show respect. The boy is one of us. He just gets to live our dreams as opposed to post about it. Don't bag him ffs. Look after and be proud of him. 

You absolutely missed the point.

Viney must to go to another level this season,  He was really average last year.  We know how good he can be, just look at the 2018 finals.

If hes angry about losing the captaincy,  channel that anger into his footy. 

Jack is an extremely selfish player. How often does he try to be the macho man and bust tackles, when the sensible thing would have been to dish it off? Countless. He also does not have a great connection with teammates. While captaincy should not be a popularity contest, they usually are popular with the group. From what I know, Jack is respected, but not a particularly popular figure amongst players. 

I think the tallest player should be captain because everyone has to look up to him.. so Max for captain and The Pruess dude for vice

Jack can be a game winner, made for finals, it’s crazy people here question his value.

I’ve no doubt Gawn will make an incredible captain, but I hope Goodwin etal are smart on managing how he leads on field.

There were (far too many) games last year where Gawn fought hopelessly to the end. As captain he could likely go too far, be too proud and be injured.

Selwood and Hodge are surely the captains everyone looks at. Both know when to step into the game. Gawn has been playing at 100% and as captain could go 110%.

The burden of captain is real, too many of our brightest players have been damaged recently. Only Jones was improved by the role, Roos knew how to assign the role.

 

38 minutes ago, grey wolf said:

I think the tallest player should be captain because everyone has to look up to him.. so Max for captain and The Pruess dude for vice

Austin Bradke in leadership group too.

2 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Austin Bradke in leadership group too.

Any idea of the collective IQ ?

12 hours ago, TGR said:

OK

Typical Melbourne.

Viney too tough and hard to be capt of the club.

Never seen Viney shirk a contest; from Wojo to Stack.  Same can’t be said for Gawn round 1 2019.

Is this about a popularity contest within the club?  Is this about Viney setting the bar too high and being too honest?  Is this about the club trying to wipe the slate clean in relation to 2019?  Is this more about PR and media?  Is this our answer to the Grundy 7 year deal?

Seriously!!

You should be ashamed for accusing Max of shirking an issue. He was in hospital all week with sepsis, prior to round 1 and should not have played. Can you site any other time Max has taken a short step? Just because Viney likes to bump bodies does not make him captain material. How did the bump on Stack work out? The kid fixed Viney up and cost him 2 weeks. There is a fine line between courage and stupidity.

Max is a leader, articulate and has the playing group behind him. Max is just as driven and trains harder than anyone else at the club. He leads by example in all facets of the game. I have no complaint with Viney but he is too one dimensional in his leadership which may come with time.

No, it isn't a popularity contest but a reflection on the role Jones played filling in the areas of captaincy where Jack was lacking. Not having Jones as co-captain is another factor in the change. As for honesty I quote the great Leigh Mathews who is a great corporate speaker when he warns "Brutal honesty leaves scars and isn't always the best avenue to set standards or achieve your goal".

Don't question how high Max sets the bar or his courage!

5 minutes ago, Demonland said:

 

Wow! I’m sorry for Jack, he’s put his heart and soul into the role, but, it might be time to focus on becoming the player he is destined to be, rather than forcing a hand that wasn’t as strong. Max will be a breath of fresh air and hopefully the beginning of a new era. Go Dees. 

Thrilled with Gawn solo! 

Gawn has it all:

 - gun on field

 - total professional off field 

 - approachable by all team mates 

 - respect of the comp 

 - a fantastic media speaker 

 - fans love him. 

Ticks all the boxes, and leaves me with absolutely no doubt about our leadership. Excited to back him in! 

Max Gawn will make a great captain no doubt and will lead by example. However some of us are quick to kick Viney in the guts by saying that they never liked him as captain because of his demeanor. Viney gives his all although he had problems with his foot he battled through it and managed to help us win some vital games in 2018. In the finals he gave his all and lead from the front.

Viney outpointed Selwood in the finals which was great to watch and went a long way in us winning.. A real Melbourne boy that burns in his guts.

Gawn or Viney or both as captain it wouldn't matter. They lead on and off the ground by example. .

6 minutes ago, nosoupforme said:

Max Gawn will make a great captain no doubt and will lead by example. However some of us are quick to kick Viney in the guts by saying that they never liked him as captain because of his demeanor. Viney gives his all although he had problems with his foot he battled through it and managed to help us win some vital games in 2018. In the finals he gave his all and lead from the front.

Viney outpointed Selwood in the finals which was great to watch and went a long way in us winning.. A real Melbourne boy that burns in his guts.

Gawn or Viney or both as captain it wouldn't matter. They lead on and off the ground by example. .

I agree with pretty much everything you have stated above.

I see a lot of Viney and Jones leadership (or apparent lack there of, which I don't personally buy into) being made scape goats for our entire 2019, which is pretty unfair really.

Similarly, I don't like the idea of the captaincy being shopped around every year as a popularity contest as the most popular guy at the club isn't alway the best leader.

I love Max as a character and a player and I think he has matured into a great leader.  However, he does also have his flaws in this regard and now watch every dummy spit and bit of bad body language or some other weakness get put under the microscope.

I think it's too fickle to be continuously chopping and changing captain just because they have a bad year or one flaw or another to their leadership style and I don't see why Max couldn't remain an unofficial leader and support Viney and our team in this respect.

Great news if true. Have never been a fan of the co-captaincy arrangement and Max will will be a terrific sole captain.

I’ll be happy with Max going solo duties on captaincy. Viney had an average year last year but still managed 3rd in the B&F, his game has to go up a level though, he can’t just rely on doing tough things. Still I rate him and I think he’ll be looking to prove a lot of doubters wrong. Particularly not having to worry about the role of captain. 

Don't agree with this.

I think Viney deserved another year at full fitness to keep his role.  He was an overwhelmingly popular choice for captain initially (especially on Demonland), is a Best and Fairest winner and has been playing on one leg for two years.  Reading through the old threads, the majority were calling for him to be sole captain not so long ago. I think we've forgotten how good a player he is when fully fit and his performance in the Geelong final was exceptional.

Gawn will make a fine captain and has developed into an excellent leader.  However, dropping a captain is a very big deal and would have to have a massive impact on Viney, who essentially hasn't done anything wrong, asides from carrying injury.  I have no issues with co-captains; I don't think it signals anything outside of sharing the workload, especially the huge time demands outside of playing and training.

It's not Viney's fault, he was chucked in the deep end too quickly instead of being able to grow into the role. He is a "jump on my back and follow me" leader (witness his game vs WCE 2017 the TMac winning goal one) but needs to develop his emotional intelligence or whatever you might want to call it. Gawn as captain with Viney as vice captain is a great combo and Viney should regain the captaincy down the track I would have thought.

Also channel 7 can get stuffed, instead of "Gawn appointed captain" being the headline it's "Viney loses captaincy" - always looking to create a crisis.

Edited February 21, 20205 yr by Dr. Gonzo

It's captain craft big boy!

Leadership is all about connecting with a variety of people with different triggers to motivate them for their individual and collective best. 

Some people would be motivated by Viney’s bull at a gate and I suspect blunt ”do it like me” attitude. 

Most would be motivated by the attitude of Gawn on track, his inspiration on field and his every man persona. 

Whilst it should not matter, the value of “brand Max” to officially head us in media and sponsorship is a no brainer from a commercial view.

 

 

My concern with this is that it places an even greater load on Max.

We expect him to ruck most of the game   Go back and take a defensive mark when the [censored] is hitting the fan. And maybe sneak forward when no one else can score us a goal.

I don't begrudge  Max the honour but load sharing is one of the advantages of a dual captaincy model.

1 hour ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

Leadership is all about connecting with a variety of people with different triggers to motivate them for their individual and collective best. 

Some people would be motivated by Viney’s bull at a gate and I suspect blunt ”do it like me” attitude. 

Most would be motivated by the attitude of Gawn on track, his inspiration on field and his every man persona. 

Whilst it should not matter, the value of “brand Max” to officially head us in media and sponsorship is a no brainer from a commercial view.

 

 

Actually, I think it matters a lot and it's one aspect of the job (ie, fronting the media, etc) that neither Jones or Viney appeared comfortable with.

Edited February 22, 20205 yr by La Dee-vina Comedia
typo