On 28/11/2019 at 11:17, KLV said:

Listening to the interview this morning, I gained more of an appreciation of what went on within the 4 walls of the club this year. “Players doubting the game plan”, “players losing confidence”, “players questioning the football department ‘s whole strategy”

 

 

This is so blindingly obvious but the happy clappers keep saying it was only injuries.....

no system, no clue with ball in hand. 

Roll on 2020

  On 28/11/2019 at 00:01, Demon3 said:

I was pretty disappointed with the club this year like everyone, the coaches, the players the admin, it was just a very poor year full of amateur mistakes, wrong messaging, underwhelming leadership and quite frankly a rather sickening response to a poor exit coming off a good year.

Im now prepared to let the last 12 months go and throw my full support behind the club. The past is behind us and the future in front of us. Go Dees.

The club must be so pleased you are prepared to let the last 12 months go and decide to throw your 'full support behind the club'. Insert saracasam font

Sheesh. 

Seriously talk about hyperbole in tbat first paragraph. Rather sickening.

You sound more like a shareholder than a supporter. Supporters give unqualified, unconditional support. At least tgat's how i see it. If I quit supporting the dees after a poor season we would have parted ways 40 years ago.

Edited November 28, 20195 yr by binman

Being a senior coach is a tough job for anyone, Damien Hardwick sends his regards to all who think several bad seasons says it all, give Goodwin 2020-2021 to show his metal.

There is no science in coaching when your team has an injury riddled season, Ron Barassi took over in 1981-1985 his teams were plagued with injuries but he made no excuses, John Northey took over and with a lot of Barassi's blooded players along with a few interstate boys the got to the grand final in 1988.

John had no system but faith in his players to do the job and it worked but ultimate prize was not attained and he started to blame the players for his failure, lack of a game plan.

  On 28/11/2019 at 20:55, binman said:

The club must be so pleased you are prepared to let the last 12 months go and decide to throw your 'full support behind the club'. Insert saracasam font

Sheesh. 

Seriously talk about hyperbole in tbat first paragraph. Rather sickening.

You sound more like a shareholder than a supporter. Supporters give unqualified, unconditional support. At least tgat's how i see it. If I quit supporting the dees after a poor season we would have parted ways 40 years ago.

Im not sure what your problem is and how you can react like that to my post, but thats your problem not mine. I have been a member for over 20 years, during that time i have given unqualified and unconditional support, where in my post did i say i was quitting the Dees? seriously?  i think i have earned the right to be disappointed with the club, lots of us have. I

You seem to want to pick a fight for absolutely no reason at all? disagree all you like but im not sure your response is warranted, if you were being honest, you would have to feel the same way about this season, it was a mess.  

  On 28/11/2019 at 22:45, Demon3 said:

Im not sure what your problem is and how you can react like that to my post, but thats your problem not mine. I have been a member for over 20 years, during that time i have given unqualified and unconditional support, where in my post did i say i was quitting the Dees? seriously?  i think i have earned the right to be disappointed with the club, lots of us have. I

You seem to want to pick a fight for absolutely no reason at all? disagree all you like but im not sure your response is warranted, if you were being honest, you would have to feel the same way about this season, it was a mess.  

Don't want to pick a fight. I apologise for my unnessary rudeness.

I don't feel the same way about the 2019 season. Not even close. Yes of course I was terribly disappointed with the results BUT NOT the coach, players admin etc. I think calling them amateur is really unfair and I think calling their response to the end of 2019 sickening is insulting and Ill informed. And way over the top. And to be honest all this does not seem like unqualified support.

 

 

  On 28/11/2019 at 23:43, binman said:

Don't want to pick a fight. I apologise for my unnessary rudeness.

I don't feel the same way about the 2019 season. Not even close. Yes of course I was terribly disappointed with the results BUT NOT the coach, players admin etc. I think calling them amateur is really unfair and I think calling their response to the end of 2019 sickening is insulting and Ill informed. And way over the top. And to be honest all this does not seem like unqualified support.

 

 

Accept your apology, and its cool, i respect your right to disagree, its the beauty of supporting this team, we can have all sorts of different opinions, but ultimately we love our team. 

I stick by my opinion that i think we didnt perform like a professional team, no where near it and to lose a prelim and then only win 5 games makes me sick, might sound over the top but i found it hard to digest, that is genuine disappointment. 

Unqualified support is there, it does not and should not stop a paid up member of 20 years being disappointed. If it wasn't unqualified i would not have signed up again.

Its all good, what we can agree on is that we want them to bounce back have success. Have a good day Binman, no hard feelings.

 

I have supported the MFC for 67 years I seen good and bad over the period but my support has never waivered, I have seen coaches come and go but I am a realist that we were always lacking something that clubs need to win premiership.

I was lucky to see 6 premierships in my time but I also watched coaches who thought there way was the only way to play football and fail for one reason or another. In 1988 we made the grand final for the first time in 24 years and Steve O'Dwyer's suspension did not help the cause, coach sat there in the preliminary final when he should have removed Steve from the ground because he was a hot head who would retaliate and the grand final was done.

As supporters we must never lose sight the coach does his best but sometimes has a blindspot during the heat of battle because they human, I realise that great coaches must experience failure before experiencing and appreciating success eg. Norm Smith, Clarkson, Thompson, Williams and Hardwick.

The test of a good coach is one who learns from adversity and embraces it to create success.

Edited November 29, 20195 yr by durango

  On 27/11/2019 at 21:27, Demonland said:

have to say Garry been out in a good paddock ....

  On 28/11/2019 at 04:44, ProDee said:

I'm certain Goodwin and his group would admit mistakes were made. It's hard to grow or improve if you don't make mistakes.  And they were challenged by injuries like few teams before them, which is tough going considering the young list profile.

Btw, this ''plan B'' talk is a load of crap.  Everyone knew how Hawthorn played when they won 3 flags, they just couldn't deal with it.  Clarkson didn't alter their game style in season, just as Richmond played to their strengths this year.  Do you think Leigh Matthews had a plan B ? Ever heard ''From the Lips of Lethal'' ?  Malthouse won a flag going around the boundary to minimise the effect of turnovers.  He didn't suddenly start using the corridor during games they were losing.

All clubs adjust their tempo at times during games, throw a 7th defender into the mix, match up on a dominant player who's got off the leash, move a tall defender forward, etc., but that's not having a ''plan B''.

Flag teams don't worry about ''plan B''.  

Exactly.

Everyone knows we had an appalling season. It would beggar belief to suggest otherwise.

There are however reasons for our poor season, which I absolutely accept. In short, our game style didn’t go from great to schizen in one year because Goodwin didn’t have a game plan. We never got started - and it literally just snow-balled badly from about the second quarter against Port in round one.

 I think we will have developed much more from finishing 17th than having limped into the 8, and getting bundled out in the first week of finals.

So much so, I just bet a bottle of Grange with a Crows’ supporting mate on our season next year. I reckon we’re top 4. He reckons we’re bottom 4. If we’re top 4, he buys me the bottle - if we’re bottom 4, I buy him the bottle. Stupid deal.

I felt like I was Josh Mahoney dealing with North on trading draft picks. Shooting fish in a barrel.

We’re going to be great next year.

 

We will Know in the first few weeks of next season whether Goodwin keeps his job or not. 
Kane Cornes gave the Club a big serve yesterday which was highly unnecessary, less talk more action. 
But what else can people do except talk in November?

He really is an angry little nit, but if Goodwin fails next year, the media will crucify him. They are ready to circle, even now

If the Club stands up, we may just break the chains.....

  On 28/11/2019 at 00:01, Demon3 said:

I was pretty disappointed with the club this year like everyone, the coaches, the players the admin, it was just a very poor year full of amateur mistakes, wrong messaging, underwhelming leadership and quite frankly a rather sickening response to a poor exit coming off a good year.

So i applaud the changes, the desire to make amends and the fact we have not sat on our hands and just expected we will bounce back. Goodwin is a relatively young coach, and all coaches face challenges, he did this year and im sure he will have learnt a lot, Richo will be a great addition to teh club. The Recruiters have identified areas where we could be better and gone and got players, Jury is out on Jackson for me, but i will embrace it, i love teh selection of Pickett, its a need we have. 

Im now prepared to let the last 12 months go and throw my full support behind the club. The past is behind us and the future in front of us. Go Dees.

 

  On 28/11/2019 at 10:42, John Demonic said:

Same old posters jumping in to attack any criticism of the club. Almost as if they just wait around on this forum for someone to call dumb. Seems like a dumb use of ones time, when we're all waiting for ACTIONS on the field and a turn around in results next year to actually prove the intelligence (or lack of) of any statements made.

Fair amount of same old from the doomsayers too.

Maybe take a leaf out of @Demon3 's book.

  On 27/11/2019 at 22:16, poita said:

"We just weren't prepared for what the game was going to demand". 

That is inexcusable on so many levels.

Agree Poita.....unbelievable really.

So unprofessional too & the sign of a coach that perhaps thinks he & his players are better than they actually are. To not make the appropriate changes & adjustments when things go pear shaped is something that all coaches learn even at junior level.

I would have thought that when your being paid $800k per year, you are expected to know what your players can deliver on & off the field & in situations that demand change & adjustments.

There comes a time during the season when 'the processes' are not right & need changing.....you'd hope the coaching staff have the knowledge to identify that they need to make those adjustments to have a better outcome.

I wonder if Goodwin will stick to the processes when we are zip 3. Not up to it & these are just excuses.

  On 01/12/2019 at 03:33, Laughing Goat said:

Agree Poita.....unbelievable really.

So unprofessional too & the sign of a coach that perhaps thinks he & his players are better than they actually are. To not make the appropriate changes & adjustments when things go pear shaped is something that all coaches learn even at junior level.

I would have thought that when your being paid $800k per year, you are expected to know what your players can deliver on & off the field & in situations that demand change & adjustments.

There comes a time during the season when 'the processes' are not right & need changing.....you'd hope the coaching staff have the knowledge to identify that they need to make those adjustments to have a better outcome.

I wonder if Goodwin will stick to the processes when we are zip 3. Not up to it & these are just excuses.

It has been noted before but poita - and therefore you also - are taking Goodwin's 'We just weren't prepared for what the game was going to demand' comment completely out of context. He was talking about the number of players rehabbing and the resultant impact on players fitness level, preparation and practicing set ups and tactics. 

I'm not sure if you are deliberately trolling or you are being sincere in the comments quoted above (and for that mater most of your posts).

If the former then hashtag what ever floats your boat.

If the latter then i'd suggest you follow things a bit more closely.

The coaching staff did in fact make significant changes to the way we played. Anyone actually watching us play could see the change during the season to a much more defensive, chip and hold, tempo model and we set up much deeper than we would normally do.

In fact to be honest i wonder if that was a mistake and they might have been better off just sticking to the preferred game plan - the plan they will play with next year ie attacking, contest out, move it forward at all costs, attack on the player with the ball, forward half pressure, front half football (you know a very similar style that has won 2 of the last 3 flags).

I suspect they did not do so because, one we  didn't have the cattle and two we were simply not fit enough to execute that hectic game style.

But i also think they looked to minimise the scale of the losses as we simply did not have enough defensive run and cover, particularly late in quarters and games and our preferred game style requires that sort of running as it exposes us to sling shot rebounds and the ball out the back..  

Re game plan, I will be happy if our backline does the following, similar to the Tigers:

- back six hold position, so don’t chase opposition or kicks into our forward half of the ground

- have a defender who generally covers the goalsquare 

- don’t all fly for the mark/punch, so we have someone stay down for crumbs

- for boundary throw ins have someone goalside ready to stop opposition smalls waltzing through for give me goals

Apologies for repeating this type of post, but I’m hoping might see it happen in 2020!!

  On 27/11/2019 at 21:27, Demonland said:

Whoa. Garry Lions Cakes. 

G. Lyon. Wow. Absolutely let himself go. 
Mick Molloy looks in better shape!   

  On 02/12/2019 at 22:44, spirit of norm smith said:

G. Lyon. Wow. Absolutely let himself go. 
Mick Molloy looks in better shape!   

Maybe it's Mrs Brownless' cooking.  

Too soon?

Edited December 2, 20195 yr by ManDee
typo

  On 02/12/2019 at 22:44, spirit of norm smith said:

G. Lyon. Wow. Absolutely let himself go. 
Mick Molloy looks in better shape!   

You try getting up at 3.30am 5 days a week

Hope Hutchison is paying him big dollars ? 

Don't tell me there's another club not obsessed with reviewing a finals disaster! OMG they are definitely in for a bottom 2 finish!

Davis: Not in my top 5 to review

Someone pass the popcorn....

  On 08/12/2019 at 01:16, Moonshadow said:

Don't tell me there's another club not obsessed with reviewing a finals disaster! OMG they are definitely in for a bottom 2 finish!

Davis: Not in my top 5 to review

Someone pass the popcorn....

I don't know about the wisdom of GWS not paying much attention to the GF, but I'll stick my head above the parapet and get flamed for saying that it is not obvious as many say that Goodwin was wrong.  For example, what if Goodwin thought the team was  cooked before the game and knew for sure it was absolutely cooked a few minutes after the start. I doubt there much point in reviewing fine details in such a case.  Not sure what you would learn other than if most of the players are stuffed, it doesn't matter how talented they are or how good your game plan is. 

  On 27/11/2019 at 22:12, ArtificialWisdom said:

Imagining a centre bounce with Gawn, Jackson, Tomlinson and Oliver. Mightn't be very effective but would tower over any other midfield

Imagine the screens we may be able to set up - multiple dead-ends for opponents, with Oliver and Brayshaw and perhaps Sparrow flanking but goalward at full pace for the taps and handballs. Then Preuss and AVB to clean up what is left of the opposition defence/interceptions. 

  On 08/12/2019 at 01:30, sue said:

I don't know about the wisdom of GWS not paying much attention to the GF, but I'll stick my head above the parapet and get flamed for saying that it is not obvious as many say that Goodwin was wrong.  For example, what if Goodwin thought the team was  cooked before the game and knew for sure it was absolutely cooked a few minutes after the start. I doubt there much point in reviewing fine details in such a case.  Not sure what you would learn other than if most of the players are stuffed, it doesn't matter how talented they are or how good your game plan is. 

I think its been acknowledged and excepted that we were absolutely cooked by the time the Prelim rolled around.

I can distinctly remember Brendan McCartney saying that in an interview on this is your footballing life.

  On 08/12/2019 at 04:49, Win4theAges said:

I think its been acknowledged and excepted that we were absolutely cooked by the time the Prelim rolled around.

I can distinctly remember Brendan McCartney saying that in an interview on this is your footballing life.

yes, but how much of it was physically cooked, mentally cooked or just carrying too many injuries and niggles.

it is important to know because this determines what needs to be done to ensure it is minimised next(?) time

...and i thought it was the Yellow Maggot brigade...they were more bloody unpredictable than us.......

  On 28/11/2019 at 04:44, ProDee said:

I'm certain Goodwin and his group would admit mistakes were made. It's hard to grow or improve if you don't make mistakes.  And they were challenged by injuries like few teams before them, which is tough going considering the young list profile.

Btw, this ''plan B'' talk is a load of crap.  Everyone knew how Hawthorn played when they won 3 flags, they just couldn't deal with it.  Clarkson didn't alter their game style in season, just as Richmond played to their strengths this year.  Do you think Leigh Matthews had a plan B ? Ever heard ''From the Lips of Lethal'' ?  Malthouse won a flag going around the boundary to minimise the effect of turnovers.  He didn't suddenly start using the corridor during games they were losing.

All clubs adjust their tempo at times during games, throw a 7th defender into the mix, match up on a dominant player who's got off the leash, move a tall defender forward, etc., but that's not having a ''plan B''.

Flag teams don't worry about ''plan B''.  

I've never heard Goodwin admit ANY mistake!!

If you DO NOT Review a huge loss in  preliminary final, as reported you are either NEGLIGENT, ARROGANT, or both!!

AND this talk about being Cooked?? Nar why were they Cooked??

Gee we have this mentality at MFC that close enough is good enough!

NOT GOOD ENOUGH!

 

Edited December 8, 20195 yr by picket fence