Jump to content
  • Demonland Interviews

Pulp Fritschon

Live Pick Trading and Academy Bid Matching

Recommended Posts

23 hours ago, Good Lord George said:

I'd suggest we can. What you can't do is trade and then regain the same pick on the night. 

So, GWS can't trade pick 6 for, say, 14 and 17, use 14 on green then trade pick 6 back in for 17 and a future first.

 

I don't really like the idea of clubs being able to trade after a bid has been made but it does mean someone like GWS, if they don't trade for a higher pick before hand, won't get an extra top 10 pick.

As an example (I'm not sure what the points work out at), if Sydney bid at 5, GWS can trade 6 for 14 and 17 and use 14 on Green. They then get Green and a kid at 17. If they trade up to 4 or 5 and get in front of the bid they get a pick 4 or 5 and then Green with their other picks. I know which I prefer.

In that situation, GWS' 17 would get pushed back a number of spots. Even with 20% discount, 14 on its own wouldn't be enough points to match a bid at 5. If by chance we bid at 3, they might need both 14 and 17 to match. 6 on its own could be enough. Wed need to be careful to judge him worth 3 in case GWS pass.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think a club without enough picks left to match the points for a bid could be made to use the following year's pick value in their 1st pick to make up the difference.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

In that situation, GWS' 17 would get pushed back a number of spots. Even with 20% discount, 14 on its own wouldn't be enough points to match a bid at 5. If by chance we bid at 3, they might need both 14 and 17 to match. 6 on its own could be enough. Wed need to be careful to judge him worth 3 in case GWS pass.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think a club without enough picks left to match the points for a bid could be made to use the following year's pick value in their 1st pick to make up the difference.

Correct. A club can go into points deficit for the next year up to the value of pick 18 the last 1st round pick.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

In that situation, GWS' 17 would get pushed back a number of spots. Even with 20% discount, 14 on its own wouldn't be enough points to match a bid at 5. If by chance we bid at 3, they might need both 14 and 17 to match. 6 on its own could be enough. Wed need to be careful to judge him worth 3 in case GWS pass.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think a club without enough picks left to match the points for a bid could be made to use the following year's pick value in their 1st pick to make up the difference.

Yep, like I said I hadn't calculated the points. It was more the example. I can see a situation unfolding where a club will trade more than the points value of pick 6 to GWS just to get pick 6, either because the really rate a player or werent going to use those picks. Again, just an example but you can see why GWS would rather trade up then use this "loophole".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Deecisive said:

there is a lot of good players being picked up by GWS and Sydney through their academy programs. What exactly is melbourne doing in this space?

We obviously are not doing enough.  Alice Springs (our zone) has not been a good zone lately.  It’s probably similar to the Kimberley in WA, lots of talent. The Kimberley zone has seen lots of talent drafted recently.  Alice none.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/8/2019 at 8:59 AM, spirit of norm smith said:

It’s all quite funny given it used to be about young blokes getting excited about going to an AFL club.  

Now it’s mathematical algorithms and actuarial studies is a prerequisite.  AFL gone mad.  Trade players and picks.

Keep the picks as picks.  No live trading for me.  

But isnt that what they do in the states??  Therefore we have to do it also.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, demonzz said:

But isnt that what they do in the states??  Therefore we have to do it also.

do the states have father/son, academies, point values and 20% discounts?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/9/2019 at 6:48 PM, Deecisive said:

there is a lot of good players being picked up by GWS and Sydney through their academy programs. What exactly is melbourne doing in this space?

Pretty sure we picked up Toby Bedford last year from our 'academy'? Could be wrong tho...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I must be old or just plain stupid or both which maybe correct but I have no idea what is going on with this stuff. Will just wait until after the event and see who we get trusting they will be great players going forward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Watson11 said:

We obviously are not doing enough.  Alice Springs (our zone) has not been a good zone lately.  It’s probably similar to the Kimberley in WA, lots of talent. The Kimberley zone has seen lots of talent drafted recently.  Alice none.

Assuming the talent levels are similar I think the big difference is that talented juniors from the Kimberley have a pathway through Perth and WAFL/WA juniors and things like schools and programs like Clontarf. AFL clubs and academies are likely the benefit of years of hard work.

Again, not claiming to be an expert but what's the pathway for a kid from the Alice region? Is Alice Spring's still a troubling town that you want to keep kids away from? Is the NT program working (recent draft results say no)? The solution might be getting the most talented kids in schools in Adelaide.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My prediction:

GWS don’t offer enough to trade pick 3. We bid on Green. GWS choose to match, but trade pick 6 to Geelong for later picks but more points. GWS then try to work a trade with Freo for their leftover picks, to use on Henry, getting pick 10.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Mach5 said:

My prediction:

GWS don’t offer enough to trade pick 3. We bid on Green. GWS choose to match, but trade pick 6 to Geelong for later picks but more points. GWS then try to work a trade with Freo for their leftover picks, to use on Henry, getting pick 10.

Will they have leftover picks to trade with Freo? Surely they are all used to match the pick 3 bid?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, whelan45 said:

Will they have leftover picks to trade with Freo? Surely they are all used to match the pick 3 bid?

 

I think so.

They have a good haul there already in case Green makes it past pick 6. If they trade 6 for more picks, they’ll have an excess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Mach5 said:

My prediction:

GWS don’t offer enough to trade pick 3. We bid on Green. GWS choose to match, but trade pick 6 to Geelong for later picks but more points. GWS then try to work a trade with Freo for their leftover picks, to use on Henry, getting pick 10.

Could see that happening. Also wouldn't rule out Gold Coast with picks 15 and 20 and them wanting to get another early first round selection.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, whelan45 said:

Will they have leftover picks to trade with Freo? Surely they are all used to match the pick 3 bid?

 

From my calcs if GWS split picks with Geel or GC both picks will be needed to match bid and they will get something in the 30’s back. Doesn’t leave them with much to get pick 10 from Freo

GWS will get more points by splitting but will also hand a competitor pick 6. If it is Geelong this could hurt them, GC less so. I hope they just cop it sweet and pony up pick 6 when the times comes. 

Trading out picks on draft night to maximise points for academy bids might bring a layer of intrigue but it is a bad look for the sport. It will only get worse from here. 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder if the gentlemen’s handshake agreement of “you give us this pick and we will promise not to bid on X player that you want” happens or if there is too much mistrust? 
I’d love to be on the inside of the Melbourne tent on draft night just to see what goes on. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Pulp Fritschon said:

From my calcs if GWS split picks with Geel or GC both picks will be needed to match bid and they will get something in the 30’s back. Doesn’t leave them with much to get pick 10 from Freo

GWS will get more points by splitting but will also hand a competitor pick 6. If it is Geelong this could hurt them, GC less so. I hope they just cop it sweet and pony up pick 6 when the times comes. 

Trading out picks on draft night to maximise points for academy bids might bring a layer of intrigue but it is a bad look for the sport. It will only get worse from here. 

 

Agree, the scenario af GWS trading 6 for 15 and 20 gives them 2024 points. They need 1787 to match a bid from us at pick 3, so they get 237pts change or pick 53.

So it's 6 for 15 and 20 for Green and 53.

Edited by Fifty-5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And then GWS will also still have picks 40, 59, 60, 80 and then add 53.

Dont know the points value, but wouldn’t be surprised to see them parlay this bunch of picks into one earlier pick.

(to be honest, thought they had more in the 2nd round, but obviously not)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Mach5 said:

And then GWS will also still have picks 40, 59, 60, 80 and then add 53.

Dont know the points value, but wouldn’t be surprised to see them parlay this bunch of picks into one earlier pick.

(to be honest, thought they had more in the 2nd round, but obviously not)

Be very surprised if those picks could turn into anything early.

I don't think we will trade with GWS. They will hope we don't bid and then trade with Adelaide I feel. If we do bid, they may even trade pick 6 for a future first rounder. My only query on this option would be whether they would have enough points to match the minimum requirement to match a bid? And if they did, would they still then need to draft 2 further players at the end of the draft to meet the minimum requirement?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, whelan45 said:

Be very surprised if those picks could turn into anything early.

I don't think we will trade with GWS. They will hope we don't bid and then trade with Adelaide I feel. If we do bid, they may even trade pick 6 for a future first rounder. My only query on this option would be whether they would have enough points to match the minimum requirement to match a bid? And if they did, would they still then need to draft 2 further players at the end of the draft to meet the minimum requirement?

I do too, on checking the picks they have.

However they add up to the value of pick 19, and will be wasted if not used on Green.
Could GWS package those picks and next year's 1st rounder for 10 maybe? It is Bell we're talking about.
Much more likely 22.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, whelan45 said:

Be very surprised if those picks could turn into anything early.

I don't think we will trade with GWS. They will hope we don't bid and then trade with Adelaide I feel. If we do bid, they may even trade pick 6 for a future first rounder. My only query on this option would be whether they would have enough points to match the minimum requirement to match a bid? And if they did, would they still then need to draft 2 further players at the end of the draft to meet the minimum requirement?

Yes I think GWS best strategy:

We bid on Green, they trade 6 to GC for 2020 mid 1st round priority pick and say 15 this year and cover the bid with 15 and their later picks.

We don't bid on Green, they trade 6 and next year's 1st for 4 and select ahead of the bid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The fate of picks 3 to 10 has been speculated on except pick 5 held by Sydney.  Nor have they been linked to a player in the top 10 except as a bidder for Green.  So I wouldn't be surprised that if GWS match a bid on Green then Sydney trade #5 out.  Who to and for what?  To Freo for 10 and 22?  With 5 Freo take Jackson, another player at 7 and get ahead of the game for Henry.  To the Cats for 14, 17?  Sydney also have 25 and 32 - a nice set of picks to take to the draft or extract max value from another team wanting to move up the draft.

Its too quiet on the Sydney front I reckon!!  They are a wild card in the top 10!  Especially, if their target player(s) are in the low to mid teens!  

Edited by Lucifer's Hero
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Social Media

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles

    SOCIAL DISTANCING by George on the Outer

    It was good to see the MFC players practicing the directives about social distancing at the game against West Coast.  Pity was that they continued to do so after the first bounce of the ball, as they allowed numerous WCE players run around un-hindered, with not a Melbourne player within 1.5 metres of them! They then found themselves looking at nearly a 5 goal deficit at the first break, which was to be essentially the final margin for the game. It is difficult to judge exactly what is going

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    BEST IN SHOW by Whispering Jack

    I am writing this knowing that the AFL has deemed that the opening round of competition will proceed but fully believing that it should not.  The world is going through cataclysmic change as a result of the overwhelming spread of the Covid-19 virus and I agree that a distraction like sport would be good for the public. However, while the physical threat to the population is bad enough, there are other  issues to be addressed including the mental health of the community and the effects on th

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    TASSIE DEVILS by Van Demon

    If you were looking for something new from the Demons that wasn’t there last year, you didn’t have to look further than the perfectly trimmed grass surface of UTAS Stadium last night as the team steamrolled the Hawks to record a comprehensive 32-point victory to complete their Marsh Community Series commitments for 2020. One new thing was the fact that for the second Marsh game in a row, the team finished full of running and they dominated the second half without the presence or the dominan

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    SOUTH OF THE BORDER by Paddy Gosch

    The Demons will go into their final Marsh Series match with a strong lineup against the Hawks in Tasmania. Both Max Gawn and Steven May, who were recovering from injuries in first Marsh Series match, have both been named. It is unclear whether Max will be on restricted minutes and will likely get breaks in the ruck with Sam Weideman and rookie Luke Jackson getting their turns in the middle. Angus Brayshaw will be getting his first taste of competitive football despite playing in last week’s

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    KANGAROO CAUGHT by Whispering Jack

    There was a fair amount of debate in our area as to whether the game warranted a full blown match report because it was felt that it was really an elevated version of a training session with match simulation but against a team in opposition colours. Although notionally the stronger side, North seemed to be using the occasion for the purpose of working on aspects of their game plan, one of the features of which seemed to be based on taking the longest possible route out of defence and good luck w

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    JUST AN ABERRATION by Whispering Jack

    Melbourne unveiled its top recruits with new fitness boss Darren Burgess and mid-sized bull Christian Petracca sharing top billing in the team’s Marsh Community Series opener in front of 3,095 football starved fans at Casey Fields and thousands of others watching on screens of various shapes and sizes.  What they saw was a different Melbourne to the one that failed to run out its JLT Series games last year and then crashed in a heap early in the season proper with performances lacking the z

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports 4

    CROWDOWN by Paddy Gosch

    The Demons open their 2020 season account with a "home" game against the Adelaide Crows at Casey Fields. It’s been more than 5 and half agonising months for the team and supporters who are eager to atone for the disappointing 2019 season which saw the Dees go from Preliminary Finalist to 2nd bottom on the ladder. The preseason campaign has been a hard slog with the addition of respected High Performance Manager Darren Burgess. We caught a glimpse of the gut busting sessions in the Melbourne

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    THE YEAR THE SKY FELL by The Oracle

    After a number of years of linear movement up the ladder, the Melbourne Football Club unexpectedly went into serious decline in 2019, slumping from fourth to 17th in a season that coach Simon Goodwin described “a complete wipe-out”. Those around the club who tried to analyse the apocalyptic events that unfolded during the year were hard pressed to find a single reason for the debacle but the most plausible explanation was that the club’s troubles stemmed from a lack of fitness and injuries that

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Special Features

    BACK IN STYLE by Whispering Jack

    From the moment when the Elton John character in the movie “Rocketman” burst into its opening scene dressed as a flamboyant demon on his way to an addiction rehabilitation session, the game was on. Here was yet another film about a person gifted with a meteoric rise to stardom finding coke, booze and a hedonistic lifestyle that led directly to a destructive crash into the abyss. Ultimately, these stories end in total disaster (“A Star is Born”, “Bohemian Rhapsody”, “Judy”) but this one resulted

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Special Features

    THE TRADING CHRONICLES 2019

    PART ONE - OVERTURE  I have a disclaimer at the outset. I’m not a fan of the races - be they horses or motors of any kind. Once the final siren sounds on the football season, I find the month or so that follows and corresponds roughly with the Spring Racing Carnival to be the most boring time of the year for sports fans. You turn on the radio and you’re confronted by the monotonous drone of a self-proclaimed racing expert or by the nasally twang of an ex-jockey banging on about the equine p

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Special Features 8

    CHANGES 2019 by The Oracle

    PART 1 - IT’S A LITTLE MORE COMPLICATED THIS TIME This year’s free agency, trade and draft period will see the usual drama and upheaval as the AFL’s 18 clubs seek to better their lists in order to challenge for finals and possibly premiership honours. Long before the final siren sounded on the season just over a week ago, the maneuvering was under way with player agents and clubs discussing possible player movements and in some cases, deals had already been done.  Yesterday, the r

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Special Features 2

    HOW FAR SOUTH? by George on the Outer

    It was appropriate that Melbourne was playing its last game of season 2019 in Hobart.  After all, how much further south could the team go? And much as it has done in many of the previous 22 games, the side managed to extract a loss from a winning position by simply giving the ball back to the opposition time and time again. In fact, they gave it back to the opposition to the tune of 53 points from turnovers while, by way of contrast North Melbourne contributed  only 17 points to their oppo

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

×
×
  • Create New...