30 minutes ago, dice said:

This was certainly selfish and arguably, a little arrogant (happened a couple of minutes after the Fritsch spray):

 

I'm a fan of Clarry but his disposal was pretty poor last night. Turned it over a number of times and his kicking for goal was s*ithouse. Also, his chemistry with Gawny seems to have waned.

Hopefully, with a good pre-season and bit of confidence, they can all turn it around next year. Fingers crossed!

Clarry has had a pretty ordinary season and while he tackles and gets lots of the ball he gets rid of the ball too quickly and often to a teammate under pressure. Difficult to tell how much is due to his game v our system breaking down. 

2 hours ago, deegirl said:

Wow, I'm shocked at the number of poster knocking Oliver's overall game.  Clearly I'm in my own football bubble.

No I'm in the bubble with you.

We are so bad atm, we are turning our anger onto one of our best young players.

Hasn't had his best year, but gets his own, contested ball, more than any other player in the team and then, sometimes poorly, tries to give it off to receivers, to bring them into the game.

Playing to a poor game plan, with no key forwards, no outside runners to give it to and we put sh-t on him.

Wonder if he played with the Tigers, how he would go there, probably right up with Dusty.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, dice said:

This was certainly selfish and arguably, a little arrogant (happened a couple of minutes after the Fritsch spray):

 

I'm a fan of Clarry but his disposal was pretty poor last night. Turned it over a number of times and his kicking for goal was s*ithouse. Also, his chemistry with Gawny seems to have waned.

Hopefully, with a good pre-season and bit of confidence, they can all turn it around next year. Fingers crossed!

If it goes through, we aren't discussing this.

Second, he appears to say sorry to Jones.

Third, he was stuffed at the time, as you can see and it was a one second decision.

Lastly,  who would you like him to have given it to, when he was 30 out, straight in front, with time to have a kick?

1 hour ago, dice said:

This was certainly selfish and arguably, a little arrogant (happened a couple of minutes after the Fritsch spray):

 

I'm a fan of Clarry but his disposal was pretty poor last night. Turned it over a number of times and his kicking for goal was s*ithouse. Also, his chemistry with Gawny seems to have waned.

Hopefully, with a good pre-season and bit of confidence, they can all turn it around next year. Fingers crossed!

That was absolutely the right play. He was in perfect position to take a shot. He took responsibility as he should. It's his disposal that you can criticise there.

14 minutes ago, Redleg said:

If it goes through, we aren't discussing this.

Second, he appears to say sorry to Jones.

Third, he was stuffed at the time, as you can see and it was a one second decision.

Lastly,  who would you like him to have given it to, when he was 30 out, straight in front, with time to have a kick?

Spot on four times over. That's exactly the kind of situation many on Demonland have been flaying players for not having a shot at goal.

3 minutes ago, pitmaster said:

That was absolutely the right play. He was in perfect position to take a shot. He took responsibility as he should. It's his disposal that you can criticise there.

Should have been someone on the goal line

24 minutes ago, Redleg said:

If it goes through, we aren't discussing this.

Second, he appears to say sorry to Jones.

Third, he was stuffed at the time, as you can see and it was a one second decision.

Lastly,  who would you like him to have given it to, when he was 30 out, straight in front, with time to have a kick?

Dunkley. Even with a bit more angle a player with time and space running in on goal is always the better option than having to steady up after moving to his non preferred side and then having to generate momentum. An easy left hand handball puts Dunkley directly in on goal.

Momentum is actually the big problem with Oliver's game right now. What's he going to do with the ball if Fritsch gives it to him in the first clip in this thread? Take a flying shot on his left, or give a handball to a player under pressure that goes nowhere. 

For all his brilliance Oliver's kicking lacks power and takes a big wind up with a high ball drop and he's lacking any cohesion with his fellow mids to dish the ball out to advantage. His game is really just hunting the ball with amazing ball winning skills then getting absolutely nowhere with it because all that drive to win the ball takes him out of position to be able to use it.

Just as much as all our mids Oliver needs a summer of handball drills on both sides of his body under pressure. Stuff we did very well in Roos' first year or two then dropped away at since. And Clarry needs to practice all summer on shortening the big windup on his kicks and getting a 20m speering kick on both sides that he can use to get the ball clear of a pack.

Edited August 17, 20195 yr by DeeSpencer

Not to play devils advocate but if the team plan for the evening was give first options with hands to get the ball outside then Oliver might have simply been frustrated by the fact it didn’t happen.

If more Melbourne players did that not more often (like one of our co-captains) we might not be so predictable.

Just a thought.

41 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

Not to play devils advocate but if the team plan for the evening was give first options with hands to get the ball outside then Oliver might have simply been frustrated by the fact it didn’t happen.

If more Melbourne players did that not more often (like one of our co-captains) we might not be so predictable.

Just a thought.

Because we have no outside, nor forward structure, our inside is hurt badly.

Does nobody see here that Fritsch in all likelihood ignored a team rule by not giving it off to Oliver, and that is why he was on the receiving end of a bake?

Fritsch ignore the first option of Oliver, who had been facing the correct way and had the advantage of being able to survey and assess the options further ahead before he should have received the footy.

Fritsch gave a fend off, ignored a teammate in a better position, did a u-turn and after a quarter-second assessment kicked forward, luckily finding a teammate.

Fritsch has ability, but deserved a dressing down. If players aren’t willing to dogmatically stick to team rules, it’s no wonder we’re in the position we are. He’ll learn, and so will Clarry, who I believe did similar later in the match.

Watching this again, I actually think Jones gives Fritsch a spray too. See how after he kicks to ANB that Bayley looks off screen towards where Jones is standing and starts to hold out his hands, but then switches attention to Oliver (who clearly gives an even bigger spray) as Jones walks away... 

Edited August 17, 20195 yr by Hellish Inferno

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

Dunkley. Even with a bit more angle a player with time and space running in on goal is always the better option than having to steady up after moving to his non preferred side and then having to generate momentum. An easy left hand handball puts Dunkley directly in on goal.

 

 

Exactly right:

 

4 hours ago, Ugottobekidding said:

To me it looks like poor leadership at all levels. A coach who has no idea, captains who are captains based on name rather than leadership. But i blame Goodwin because it is his job and he is useless at it. Obvious he has lost the players.

Yep have almost lost Faith in the coach! and agree players might also have and in dual Captains

Nothing to see here!

This [censored] happens in sporting teams - things get intense.

Add frustration at our [censored] of a season and issues bubble up.

FMD, didn't Viney and Tmac have a scuffle at training a few years ago?

9 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Infuriated me seeing this from Oliver last night. Steven May copped it for making Frost accountable and showing leadership. Yet Oliver sprays Fritsch for actually playing team footy showing composure and vision. You couldn't find a more selfish arrogant footballer in our side right now. Needs a huge reality check In the off season and keep his ego in check. 

Needs to forget about how many stats he gets and become more effective with his disposal. These junk handballs to someone else under pressure serve no purpose.

 

 

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/coupler.foxsports.com.au/api/v1/article/amp/afl/clayton-oliver-slammed-for-selfish-spray-of-teammate-bayley-fritsch/news-story/9b385ab4e7ecbbae5e5750953777a7c7

Blah blah blah!

Yes BBO you're right, but team mates need to be on the same page

Right now they're not even in the same postcode

4 hours ago, chookrat said:

Clarry has had a pretty ordinary season and while he tackles and gets lots of the ball he gets rid of the ball too quickly and often to a teammate under pressure. Difficult to tell how much is due to his game v our system breaking down. 

Couldn't disagree more.  Ordinary moments like others around him and plenty of room to clean up his disposal and decision making but without Clarry's contested efforts/tackling/2nd efforts to get ball back (even after coughing it up himself) etc we would probably have taken some wood off of GC.

The above passage was disappointing but players are going to miss.  The problem is he (and others) miss on goal far too often .  He really needs to work on his goal kicking, disposal and his ability to escape congestion vs his current penchant to dish off to anyone with a two foot radius!

Edited August 17, 20195 yr by Rusty Nails

On 8/17/2019 at 10:12 AM, Adzman said:

Another camera angle would show Oliver's lips moving, and lip reading would read something along the lines of "good vision but don't kick it to Neale-Bullen because he can't kick" .....

"Mate, I was 2 metres from you and not in a better position, plus I was surrounded by swans so I could have blindly kicked it so high it brings rain and given the defenders lots of time and a good chance to punch it .... jeez!!!"

23 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

Couldn't disagree more.  Ordinary moments like others around him and plenty of room to clean up his disposal and decision making but without Clarry's contested efforts/tackling/2nd efforts to get ball back (even after coughing it up himself) etc we would probably have taken some wood off of GC.

The above passage was disappointing but players are going to miss.  The problem is he (and others) miss on goal far too often .  He really needs to work on his goal kicking, disposal and his ability to escape congestion vs his current penchant to dish off to anyone with a two foot radius!

Fair point, Clarry has still been one of our best players and I'm probably being a bit harsh on him due to how good he has been in his first couple of seasons. 

If it wasn't the last game of the year I would 100% be calling for him to be dropped. That kick from Fritch was sublime and absolutely the right decision, for Oliver to give him a spray for that is pathetic and I hope Goodwin gave him a spray back. 

This has been a horror year and the fact the players are turning on each other shows that they are in completely self preservation mode. They want good stats to be able to say, "see, see I'm doing well". Feels like an eternity that last year they would say things like, "well I didn't have the greatest game but the most important thing is the team performance and that we're backing each other up." 

All I can say is Clarry better put in a gut busting, BOG performance next week because that was embarrassing.

Those suggesting that Oliver has had an ordinary season - the AFL coaches would disagree.  He has polled votes in 10 games this year, which is more than Max. Given we have only won 5 games, that is a pretty impressive effort.  His season hasn't been as good as his previous two, but that is quite possibly more due to the form of those around him. I'd imagine he'd be embarrassed by the optics of Friday night but I don't think he's a selfish player - just a young man who needs to grow up a bit.

On 8/17/2019 at 1:06 PM, loges said:

Last year his disposals looked so damaging, This year half the time he either misses the target or puts the receiver under even more pressure.

Could that be because the team hasn't other players around him aren't in positions to recieve the ball, or because his dismissal has been worse?

3 hours ago, Mazer Rackham said:

"Mate, I was 2 metres from you and not in a better position, plus I was surrounded by swans so I could have blindly kicked it so high it brings rain and given the defenders lots of time and a good chance to punch it .... jeez!!!"

 

Can you really not see that he WAS in a better position?

3 minutes ago, Mach5 said:

 

Can you really not see that he WAS in a better position?

How so? Have you seen Oliver deliver the ball inside 50 on his left? Struggles on his right. He would have probably given another handball to a player under pressure.

Clarry demanding the ball as a stationary handball target 2 metres away from Fritsch. team rule or not, this is the sort of thing that has been causing the team problems for the last 2 years.