Roos + Lyon - On The Couch

[Watson11 1,886]

21 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Yeh nah. 

I've been saying it since the beginning of the year actually. 

You might think something like moving Fritsch back into the forward-line is 'changing things up' but the fact that we've been losing games the same way all year tells me not much has changed.

It should tell everyone that. Clearly. 

Nah last night was a whole new way to lose.  How can you say it’s the same mistakes as say the Geelong game where we had over 70 inside 50’s.

Our midfield has gone backwards.    We only had 39 inside 50s.

I suspect a lot of effort is going into trying to get our mids to be better balanced inside and outside, but it just looks like now they don’t know what to do.  This should have been sorted well before now as it was obvious last year.

Last night we had 50 defensive 50 intercepts and did not score from any of them.  We looked to be slowing it down, and we got smothered.  Intercepts are where we should take off and spread as that’s where sides are not setup to defend.  On the other hand they scored 13.4 from turnovers which in my view was easy for them due to our slower ball movement out of the back half and poor skills.

[titan_uranus 22,363]

2 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Yeh nah. 

I've been saying it since the beginning of the year actually. 

You might think something like moving Fritsch back into the forward-line is 'changing things up' but the fact that we've been losing games the same way all year tells me not much has changed.

It should tell everyone that. Clearly. 

But didn't we lose last night in a different manner? i.e. our opponent had far more inside 50s than us?

I'm not saying that's a good thing, and I haven't seen the game either. But surely this was a different sort of loss, and at face value maybe a by-product of some changes to the way we're playing (which clearly didn't work)?

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

1 hour ago, Watson11 said:

Nah last night was a whole new way to lose. 

Skill level across the list and Goodwin's propensity to recruit and play average skilled players in the forward half and through the midfield over the past two seasons explain everything. 

Whether it's turnovers in the forward half, defensive half, innefiency kicking into our forwardline or out of our defence, it's all there. 

 

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

44 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

But didn't we lose last night in a different manner? i.e. our opponent had far more inside 50s than us?

I'm not saying that's a good thing, and I haven't seen the game either. But surely this was a different sort of loss, and at face value maybe a by-product of some changes to the way we're playing (which clearly didn't work)?

We lost because of our turnover count which allowed them those repeat entries. 

Which ultimately comes down to skill level and decision making of players. 

[Pennant St Dee 11,278]

In essence for those who haven't seen the game yes we lost because of turnovers stats tell a trained monkey that. 

We have tried to play a game of late with ball in hand a lot more, it works well when you

1. make the right decisions

2. your players up the ground work hard to present 

3. your mids are prepared to run both ways

The above fell down because of work rate and execution 

1. Some good decisions were made when we tried to use width, but the skill execution seen kicks/handball dropping short resulting in no fluid connection with the second option having to wait or by bringing more congestion to what shouldn't have been a contest

2.Our forwards do not work anywhere near hard enough to present multiple leads and/or lock the ball in. 

3. When we run forward the connection breaks down for reasons 1 & 2, we lack gut runners to get back on their opponents as they all head to the honeypot and think the job is done, no desire to anticipate danger on the the outside and a defensive mindset to either lock it in, give away a free reset and negate the fast break, and a general lack of desire to run hard enough to shut down the corridor 

Watch our mids closely they do not run hard enough  our forwards outside of Tmac do not run hard enough I'm not talking total kms I'm talking burst running we just don't do it. The domino effect this has is what you see last night and in last quarters 

This can be turned around but it takes

Fitness overhaul which will improve the skills 

Desire and will to work hard and go when you are out on your feet

A few trades to bring in or from our VFL stocks 2 outside gut runners and find 2 contested groundball animals inside forwad 50

 

[jnrmac 18,976]

37 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

In essence for those who haven't seen the game yes we lost because of turnovers stats tell a trained monkey that. 

We have tried to play a game of late with ball in hand a lot more, it works well when you

1. make the right decisions

2. your players up the ground work hard to present 

3. your mids are prepared to run both ways

The above fell down because of work rate and execution 

1. Some good decisions were made when we tried to use width, but the skill execution seen kicks/handball dropping short resulting in no fluid connection with the second option having to wait or by bringing more congestion to what shouldn't have been a contest

2.Our forwards do not work anywhere near hard enough to present multiple leads and/or lock the ball in. 

3. When we run forward the connection breaks down for reasons 1 & 2, we lack gut runners to get back on their opponents as they all head to the honeypot and think the job is done, no desire to anticipate danger on the the outside and a defensive mindset to either lock it in, give away a free reset and negate the fast break, and a general lack of desire to run hard enough to shut down the corridor 

Watch our mids closely they do not run hard enough  our forwards outside of Tmac do not run hard enough I'm not talking total kms I'm talking burst running we just don't do it. The domino effect this has is what you see last night and in last quarters 

This can be turned around but it takes

Fitness overhaul which will improve the skills 

Desire and will to work hard and go when you are out on your feet

A few trades to bring in or from our VFL stocks 2 outside gut runners and find 2 contested groundball animals inside forwad 50

 

The players look totally lost. They look confused. They don't know what to do. They look scared to take the first option.

It looks to me like they don't believe in the coaches plan anymore. Probably because the coach doesn't know what he is doing.

 

[Pennant St Dee 11,278]

4 hours ago, jnrmac said:

The players look totally lost. They look confused. They don't know what to do. They look scared to take the first option.

It looks to me like they don't believe in the coaches plan anymore. Probably because the coach doesn't know what he is doing.

 

or possibly because he made a big big error in not tweaking the plan post 2018 and then changing it mid season has left them confused. Whichever way you look at no single person is to blame it's a domino effect, Goody bears the brunt of the heat as he should as head coach, but he's not alone fitness is sub standard for a variety of reasons including the players, not just Misson

Effects the players ability to make repeat efforts 

Effects their ability to spread from contests which they were doing in last years run home

Effects their endurance and subsequently their skills and awareness 

All that amplified by confidence being shot and depth being exposed 

Edited July 28, 2019 by Pennant St Dee

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

On 7/28/2019 at 10:12 PM, Pennant St Dee said:

or possibly because he made a big big error in not tweaking the plan post 2018 and then changing it mid season has left them confused. Whichever way you look at no single person is to blame it's a domino effect, Goody bears the brunt of the heat as he should as head coach, but he's not alone fitness is sub standard for a variety of reasons including the players, not just Misson

Effects the players ability to make repeat efforts 

Effects their ability to spread from contests which they were doing in last years run home

Effects their endurance and subsequently their skills and awareness 

All that amplified by confidence being shot and depth being exposed 

Can you explain to me what happened in the West Coast prelim, Hawthorn game last year and Collingwood game last year? 

Do you think fitness was a major issue too? 

Edited July 29, 2019 by stevethemanjordan

[Kent 2,581]

On 7/28/2019 at 10:12 PM, Pennant St Dee said:

or possibly because he made a big big error in not tweaking the plan post 2018 and then changing it mid season has left them confused. Whichever way you look at no single person is to blame it's a domino effect, Goody bears the brunt of the heat as he should as head coach, but he's not alone fitness is sub standard for a variety of reasons including the players, not just Misson

Effects the players ability to make repeat efforts 

Effects their ability to spread from contests which they were doing in last years run home

Effects their endurance and subsequently their skills and awareness 

All that amplified by confidence being shot and depth being exposed 

How can you tweak the plan when you don't do in depth full reviews of Prelim final

We have a coaching staff that has spent  the entire season in denial

No wonder they look like stunned mullets in the coaching box when, at last, the reality of their incompetence finally hits home.

[chookrat 3,776]

On 7/28/2019 at 5:54 PM, jnrmac said:

The players look totally lost. They look confused. They don't know what to do. They look scared to take the first option.

It looks to me like they don't believe in the coaches plan anymore. Probably because the coach doesn't know what he is doing.

 

Or they are learning to play a different style with more deliberate ball movement and playing less on instinct. Our chaos ball works well when we have momentum but we need to develop that other gear to slow the ball at stages during the game. Might as well use the remaining games to practice that. 

[Demon3 2,541]

1 hour ago, Kent said:

How can you tweak the plan when you don't do in depth full reviews of Prelim final

We have a coaching staff that has spent  the entire season in denial

No wonder they look like stunned mullets in the coaching box when, at last, the reality of their incompetence finally hits home.

Bang on Kent. 

[Dwight Schrute 16,764]

One thing that's been touched on is the fact a lot of pre season, but that combined with the game style and being unable to convert inside 50's 

What it means is some already underdone players struggle to run out games as well as their opponents

the game plan is not tweaked in any way to accomodate this. 

and the inability to convert inside 50's into goals means they don't get any breathers and put in a huge amount of effort trying to move the ball in quickly and getting no reward, it would be incredibly draining phyisically and mentally to feel like they've dominated games and been beaten comfortably.

[Pennant St Dee 11,278]

13 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Can you explain to me what happened in the West Coast prelim, Hawthorn game last year and Collingwood game last year? 

Do you think fitness was a major issue too? 

We were cooked in the Prelim and after 15 mins were emotionally shot it happens, we weren't the first side it happened to and won't be the last

and if you recall we tweaked our press mid season last year after the sides like the Hawks exposed it

and whilst I understand you're trying to be a smart [censored], even the slow tempo game requires burst running and endurance for repeat efforts 

We don't have it

[Pennant St Dee 11,278]

13 hours ago, Kent said:

How can you tweak the plan when you don't do in depth full reviews of Prelim final

We have a coaching staff that has spent  the entire season in denial

No wonder they look like stunned mullets in the coaching box when, at last, the reality of their incompetence finally hits home.

Oh Ffs, if you believe the footy department didn't review the Prelim then don't be late sending your letter to Santa.

 

[jnrmac 18,976]

54 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Oh Ffs, if you believe the footy department didn't review the Prelim then don't be late sending your letter to Santa.

 

Melbourne coach Simon Goodwin is so determined to see his club move on from last year’s preliminary final humiliation at the hands of eventual premiers West Coast that he hasn’t even watched the full replay.

The 42-year-old former Adelaide champion has only briefly touched on the experience with his players, instead opting to focus on 2019 and the Demons’ next tilt at a drought-breaking flag. 

“It’s been a pretty simple one for me,” Goodwin told SEN on Tuesday.

“You look at your year in total and you try to keep perspective about where you’ve come from as a footy club and where you’re going.

“I certainly haven’t looked back. I’ve been more inclined to look forward.

“I haven’t dealt with it with the players. I actually haven’t really watched it again.”

[Ethan Tremblay 28,391]

11 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Melbourne coach Simon Goodwin is so determined to see his club move on from last year’s preliminary final humiliation at the hands of eventual premiers West Coast that he hasn’t even watched the full replay.

The 42-year-old former Adelaide champion has only briefly touched on the experience with his players, instead opting to focus on 2019 and the Demons’ next tilt at a drought-breaking flag. 

“It’s been a pretty simple one for me,” Goodwin told SEN on Tuesday.

“You look at your year in total and you try to keep perspective about where you’ve come from as a footy club and where you’re going.

“I certainly haven’t looked back. I’ve been more inclined to look forward.

“I haven’t dealt with it with the players. I actually haven’t really watched it again.”

If I wanted to cut my press conference short or if I didn’t want to be asked any further questions about the prelim, I’d answer the same way Goodwin did. There’s no way he and the coaches didn’t review the that game. 

Edited July 30, 2019 by Ethan Tremblay

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

8 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Melbourne coach Simon Goodwin is so determined to see his club move on from last year’s preliminary final humiliation at the hands of eventual premiers West Coast that he hasn’t even watched the full replay.

The 42-year-old former Adelaide champion has only briefly touched on the experience with his players, instead opting to focus on 2019 and the Demons’ next tilt at a drought-breaking flag. 

“It’s been a pretty simple one for me,” Goodwin told SEN on Tuesday.

“You look at your year in total and you try to keep perspective about where you’ve come from as a footy club and where you’re going.

“I certainly haven’t looked back. I’ve been more inclined to look forward.

“I haven’t dealt with it with the players. I actually haven’t really watched it again.”

Well this is awkward. 

[Kent 2,581]

9 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Oh Ffs, if you believe the footy department didn't review the Prelim then don't be late sending your letter to Santa.

 

I don't believe in Santa Penn

What I do believe is the evidence of my own eyes that the Coaching group,  having had sufficient  time to repair the glaring deficiencies in the game plan, have done nothing. It's alright for Goodwin to say he is focussed on the future mate, but we  are living his deluded future now. Can I say, not an acceptable outcome. But ok, if you think his focus on the future has improved the team and our game good for you. I dont agree.

[Pennant St Dee 11,278]

7 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Well this is awkward 

8 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

If I wanted to cut my press conference short or if I didn’t want to be asked any further questions about the prelim, I’d answer the same way Goodwin did. There’s no way he and the coaches didn’t review the that game. 

 

sshhhhhh

let the fairytale continue 

[rjay 23,922]

17 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

sshhhhhh

let the fairytale continue 

'Pennant', whether they did or didn't is really of no consequence.

What Goody said at the press conference to my mind is a metaphor for this year.

That he took until half way through this season to start to address the issues shown up from that game is really the problem.

Edited July 30, 2019 by rjay

[binman 38,111]

10 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

We were cooked in the Prelim and after 15 mins were emotionally shot it happens, we weren't the first side it happened to and won't be the last

and if you recall we tweaked our press mid season last year after the sides like the Hawks exposed it

and whilst I understand you're trying to be a smart [censored], even the slow tempo game requires burst running and endurance for repeat efforts 

We don't have it

Exactly right on all counts psd. 

So simplistic to pick three games out of a season and use them as evidence of a failed system. 

We have nor been anywhere near fit enough this year. If people can't see that with their eyes our disastrous last quarter record all year is sufficient evidence.

And I find it hard to see how people can't see that we have adjusted our game plan, as we did last year (to brilliant effect, becoming the harfmdedt team to score against in the last third if the season).

On the slow tempo style that many seem to think is the new key to premiership you are exactly right it places a huge emphasis on aerobic fitness as it relies on multiple players leasing into space to create multiple options (and discipline to keep offering those leads). Players are running huge distances. Lose players through injury and dealing with the grind of the season makes it a hard style to maintain 

It does  means less physical clashes, and therfore less risk of contact injuries, which is why I suspect clubs have taken it to the next level this season. But it will be employed less in finals, not least because teams are not scoring enough.

I flagged a few weeks back that the tiger's, with their opposite style, a team close to full strength and a dream run of games at the g would be close to premiership favorites soon enough. If they win it our style will be the flavour of the day again.

Edited July 30, 2019 by binman

[Dr. Gonzo 22,415]

On 7/28/2019 at 2:40 PM, stevethemanjordan said:

We lost because of our turnover count which allowed them those repeat entries. 

Which ultimately comes down to skill level and decision making of players. 

So not the gameplan or the coach?

[Dr. Gonzo 22,415]

On 7/28/2019 at 5:54 PM, jnrmac said:

The players look totally lost. They look confused. They don't know what to do. They look scared to take the first option.

It looks to me like they don't believe in the coaches plan anymore. Probably because the coach doesn't know what he is doing.

 

Projection

[Dr. Gonzo 22,415]

1 hour ago, binman said:

Exactly right on all counts psd. 

So simplistic to pick three games out of a season and use them as evidence of a failed system. 

We have nor been anywhere near fit enough this year. If people can't see that with their eyes our disastrous last quarter record all year is sufficient evidence.

And I find it hard to see how people can't see that we have adjusted our game plan, as we did last year (to brilliant effect, becoming the harfmdedt team to score against in the last third if the season).

On the slow tempo style that many seem to think is the new key to premiership you are exactly right it places a huge emphasis on aerobic fitness as it relies on multiple players leasing into space to create multiple options (and discipline to keep offering those leads). Players are running huge distances. Lose players through injury and dealing with the grind of the season makes it a hard style to maintain 

It does  means less physical clashes, and therfore less risk of contact injuries, which is why I suspect clubs have taken it to the next level this season. But it will be employed less in finals, not least because teams are not scoring enough.

I flagged a few weeks back that the tiger's, with their opposite style, a team close to full strength and a dream run of games at the g would be close to premiership favorites soon enough. If they win it our style will be the flavour of the day again.

It also requires marking forward targets and crumbing small forwards both of which we have a dearth of

[jnrmac 18,976]

11 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

If I wanted to cut my press conference short or if I didn’t want to be asked any further questions about the prelim, I’d answer the same way Goodwin did. There’s no way he and the coaches didn’t review the that game. 

Are you calling him a liar?

If he wanted to cut it short he could easily have said  'Yes we reviewed it and moved on'.