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rjay

The Writing Was/Is on the Wall

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You're right 'Goody', it's no reason to overreact but that's now 4 poor games in a row.

That's a trend.

I think we can now put some things into perspective and act to fix what we can.

From my post after the JLT games...

"A lot of people wanting to put things into perspective from my readings....

...so here's my perspective.

We're not good enough to cruise through preseason games just yet...if these games are meant to tweak the game plan and fine tune for the first game then heaven help us.

That was a dogs breakfast.

No amount of perspective can change that."

In another post earlier in the year I also said that our continued improvement will be harder this year.

We've been on a steady upward climb and logic would see us drop off a bit somewhere.

Is this the year we drop back a bit? do we miss finals?

A bit early to call but on the evidence of the last 4 games we've got work to do.

I think our list is overrated by the media and of course us fans...there are holes and I'm sure the FD know this.

We lack quality small forwards, Jeffy is the only class one we have and he's super flakey...

Spargo is not up to it yet and I don't think he has the tricks to ever be. At his size he needs them big time.

ANB can fill a role but at the moment that's what all our small forwards are trying to do...he must hit the scoreboard to hold his place.

We had Sparrow in there yesterday for his first game and at least he put some pressure on but he's not a small forward.

Hunt's been tried but he's not one either.

So our small forwards are about pressure but none bring scoreboard pressure except Jeffy at times.

Our defence..Frost, should have been delisted.

Omac...the experiment is over. Time to put development into Petty alongside May & Lever.

Hibberd hasn't been the player he was in 2017, he's drifting by and not working anywhere near hard enough.

We miss Lever big time but I think we overpaid for him, one of those draft kids running around now adding a bit of class could have been handy.

Tommy Mac worries me, he's had a good season as a forward but has been very average as of late.

History shows he had a really good season and a bit as a defender then dropped off dramatically.

Let's hope it's just an aberration and he's up and firing again soon but the trend is remarkably similar.

Is Tommy getting ahead of himself or have the opposition worked him?

A big call but maybe Tommy could do with some Casey time with his brother.

Weid is a kid and he will get a bit more time. Expect him to be up and down but he needs to work harder when down.

Trac...undecided on him. I get the feeling he will never be the player we wanted but still be a good player. Just not a great one.

It's time to deliver young Trac, no more teasing.

The mids are a good group but they are believing their own publicity.

Thanks Gary Lyon, we all know Oliver is a star but he doesn't need to drink his own bathwater and he has recently.

Time for them to grow up and also time for Max to focus on his game, he's being pushed around too easily.

You're a big boy Max and you don't need everyone to like you.

Outside run, yeah we all know that. KK may provide some if he gets back to early career form but there's no guarantee there.

Being out of the early picks in the last 2 drafts has hurt and we need to pick some more talent.

Fritsch is class but is only a fringe player at the moment so he needs to give us more this year.

A side note to yesterday...they were up and about.

Did anyone notice how many players ran to Sparrow when he kicked his first AFL goal in his first game? not enough for my liking.

We weren't up for it.

So the question remains...the writing was on the wall for yesterdays game. Is it on the wall going forward?

Will we drop off this year?

 

 

 

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@rjay

Will we drop off this year ?

Who would have even given an ounce of oxygen to that notion....  before yesterday ??

Such a thought has gone from a figment of imagination to pigment of apprehension !!

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Overreaction with a lot of it.

It is Round 1 after all.

But I agree there are some warning signs and problems that still haven't been addressed.

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I have seen nothing this year so far to indicate we are going to take the next step, if anything it’s looking likely we will take a step backwards, but will wait and see how we go over the next few weeks we look so underdone but so did the rest of last years top 4, the tigers were lucky they got Carlton, let’s hope we can turn it around quickly because with our draw the season could be over fairly quickly 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Overreaction with a lot of it.

It is Round 1 after all.

But I agree there are some warning signs and problems that still haven't been addressed.

Is it though....an overreaction ?

Before yesterday had you polled here and the general footy populus the result would have been:

We're heading >>>>>>>>🏆 like a steam train !!

I reckon consensus just got a massive correction.

I've seen nothing this year to date which really supports the original notion.

Edit..had no idea what you had  written @brendan (spooky )

Edited by beelzebub

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I think it’ll take about 6 rounds for everyone to figure what the hell we’re dealing with, with these new rules.

Playing lists have been set up and gamplans have been drilled into players, based on certain acts and playing styles giving an advantage - the goalposts have shifted and everyone is now trying to establish what is most valuable and the most efficient game style for this new game we’re stuck with.

Granted, we haven’t been fantastic, and we desperately need some true crumbers, but don’t underestimate the impact of the rule changes, with the slightly different stagnation and the coaches tinkering with how to combat that, but not being able to make too many changes in-game to see what works.

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13 minutes ago, rjay said:

You're right 'Goody', it's no reason to overreact but that's now 4 poor games in a row.

That's a trend.

I think we can now put some things into perspective and act to fix what we can.

From my post after the JLT games...

"A lot of people wanting to put things into perspective from my readings....

...so here's my perspective.

We're not good enough to cruise through preseason games just yet...if these games are meant to tweak the game plan and fine tune for the first game then heaven help us.

That was a dogs breakfast.

No amount of perspective can change that."

In another post earlier in the year I also said that our continued improvement will be harder this year.

We've been on a steady upward climb and logic would see us drop off a bit somewhere.

Is this the year we drop back a bit? do we miss finals?

A bit early to call but on the evidence of the last 4 games we've got work to do.

I think our list is overrated by the media and of course us fans...there are holes and I'm sure the FD know this.

We lack quality small forwards, Jeffy is the only class one we have and he's super flakey...

Spargo is not up to it yet and I don't think he has the tricks to ever be. At his size he needs them big time.

ANB can fill a role but at the moment that's what all our small forwards are trying to do...he must hit the scoreboard to hold his place.

We had Sparrow in there yesterday for his first game and at least he put some pressure on but he's not a small forward.

Hunt's been tried but he's not one either.

So our small forwards are about pressure but none bring scoreboard pressure except Jeffy at times.

Our defence..Frost, should have been delisted.

Omac...the experiment is over. Time to put development into Petty alongside May & Lever.

Hibberd hasn't been the player he was in 2017, he's drifting by and not working anywhere near hard enough.

We miss Lever big time but I think we overpaid for him, one of those draft kids running around now adding a bit of class could have been handy.

Tommy Mac worries me, he's had a good season as a forward but has been very average as of late.

History shows he had a really good season and a bit as a defender then dropped off dramatically.

Let's hope it's just an aberration and he's up and firing again soon but the trend is remarkably similar.

Is Tommy getting ahead of himself or have the opposition worked him?

A big call but maybe Tommy could do with some Casey time with his brother.

Weid is a kid and he will get a bit more time. Expect him to be up and down but he needs to work harder when down.

Trac...undecided on him. I get the feeling he will never be the player we wanted but still be a good player. Just not a great one.

It's time to deliver young Trac, no more teasing.

The mids are a good group but they are believing their own publicity.

Thanks Gary Lyon, we all know Oliver is a star but he doesn't need to drink his own bathwater and he has recently.

Time for them to grow up and also time for Max to focus on his game, he's being pushed around too easily.

You're a big boy Max and you don't need everyone to like you.

Outside run, yeah we all know that. KK may provide some if he gets back to early career form but there's no guarantee there.

Being out of the early picks in the last 2 drafts has hurt and we need to pick some more talent.

Fritsch is class but is only a fringe player at the moment so he needs to give us more this year.

A side note to yesterday...they were up and about.

Did anyone notice how many players ran to Sparrow when he kicked his first AFL goal in his first game? not enough for my liking.

We weren't up for it.

So the question remains...the writing was on the wall for yesterdays game. Is it on the wall going forward?

Will we drop off this year?

 

 

 

I was about to start a thread on our "chaotic" gamestyle but given your chaotic post I'll give it a go here... (not an insult by the way I just think we are all feeling the same way.)

We hadn't played finals in 10 years and so have had pre-seasons with better conditioning that start earlier This year we played with the big boys late into September and our better players had late season operations.

Hibberd will bounce back he is an elite footballer. There is no reason to suggest he has slowed from August to March.

On the chaotic game style we are trying to implement we are missing the obvious ingredient which is surprise. You can't have chaos with out an element of surprise. Why we kick straight down the line every single time is an embarrassment to the club. Switch it occasionally. 

We need someone like Travis Johnstone to run along the wing and then instead of slamming it into the forward line find an angle that absoluteltely confuses the opposition structure and increases our chances of kicking a goal. 

 

 

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I put us finishing 8th. Think I was being overly generous. We are way too slow and have argued this before. We have no crummers and yes Garlett is flakey and always has been. We miss Hannan.

I have lent some weight in favour of Frost and OMAC but after yesterday I just can't  May will come in and I would bring in Petty.

We need a back up for Max. Keilty looks a better player than Pruess. Max in the forward line more often.

I fear we may finish in the bottom 6. Hope I am wrong.

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Part of yesterday’s game reminded of our loss to St Kilda last year. We got out run and Port ran in waves, particularly from backline were they outnumbered us around the ball, then would typically break away as a group of three and start running and passing the ball amongst themselves.

Several Demons weren’t running and chasing, led by our captains, Jones who seems to think he is above chasing, Viney who looked injured, and Petracca. Hore just looked slow, and the team generally didn’t seem to be running.

We recovered after losing to St Kilda last year and am expecting almost the whole team other than Salem & Melksham to improve on yesterday’s performance.

Would live to see Jones chase!!

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38 minutes ago, rjay said:

 

Agree with almost everything you said. We have had three poor to average  draft / trade periods in a row. We have too many players who have been around for 4/5/6 years who simply aren't good enough. There were at least six players on the field yesterday who don't deserve to be there.

Not one of our so called stars performed yesterday. Our midfield, with the possible exception of Harmes, are not fit enough and clearly believed the hype around them. Our forward line is truly shambolic and the defence even worse. The coaching staff didn't pay Port enough respect and clearly haven't learnt from the Prelim debacle. I can't believe we gave Goodwin a new contract before the first month of the season had passed.

Viney is not fit, and you can almost guarantee he will be pulled for a period on the sidelines at some stage in the next month. God help us if we have managed to stuff his foot again. 

 

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1 hour ago, rjay said:

You're right 'Goody', it's no reason to overreact but that's now 4 poor games in a row.

That's a trend.

I think we can now put some things into perspective and act to fix what we can.

From my post after the JLT games...

"A lot of people wanting to put things into perspective from my readings....

...so here's my perspective.

We're not good enough to cruise through preseason games just yet...if these games are meant to tweak the game plan and fine tune for the first game then heaven help us.

That was a dogs breakfast.

No amount of perspective can change that."

In another post earlier in the year I also said that our continued improvement will be harder this year.

We've been on a steady upward climb and logic would see us drop off a bit somewhere.

Is this the year we drop back a bit? do we miss finals?

A bit early to call but on the evidence of the last 4 games we've got work to do.

I think our list is overrated by the media and of course us fans...there are holes and I'm sure the FD know this.

We lack quality small forwards, Jeffy is the only class one we have and he's super flakey...

Spargo is not up to it yet and I don't think he has the tricks to ever be. At his size he needs them big time.

ANB can fill a role but at the moment that's what all our small forwards are trying to do...he must hit the scoreboard to hold his place.

We had Sparrow in there yesterday for his first game and at least he put some pressure on but he's not a small forward.

Hunt's been tried but he's not one either.

So our small forwards are about pressure but none bring scoreboard pressure except Jeffy at times.

Our defence..Frost, should have been delisted.

Omac...the experiment is over. Time to put development into Petty alongside May & Lever.

Hibberd hasn't been the player he was in 2017, he's drifting by and not working anywhere near hard enough.

We miss Lever big time but I think we overpaid for him, one of those draft kids running around now adding a bit of class could have been handy.

Tommy Mac worries me, he's had a good season as a forward but has been very average as of late.

History shows he had a really good season and a bit as a defender then dropped off dramatically.

Let's hope it's just an aberration and he's up and firing again soon but the trend is remarkably similar.

Is Tommy getting ahead of himself or have the opposition worked him?

A big call but maybe Tommy could do with some Casey time with his brother.

Weid is a kid and he will get a bit more time. Expect him to be up and down but he needs to work harder when down.

Trac...undecided on him. I get the feeling he will never be the player we wanted but still be a good player. Just not a great one.

It's time to deliver young Trac, no more teasing.

The mids are a good group but they are believing their own publicity.

Thanks Gary Lyon, we all know Oliver is a star but he doesn't need to drink his own bathwater and he has recently.

Time for them to grow up and also time for Max to focus on his game, he's being pushed around too easily.

You're a big boy Max and you don't need everyone to like you.

Outside run, yeah we all know that. KK may provide some if he gets back to early career form but there's no guarantee there.

Being out of the early picks in the last 2 drafts has hurt and we need to pick some more talent.

Fritsch is class but is only a fringe player at the moment so he needs to give us more this year.

A side note to yesterday...they were up and about.

Did anyone notice how many players ran to Sparrow when he kicked his first AFL goal in his first game? not enough for my liking.

We weren't up for it.

So the question remains...the writing was on the wall for yesterdays game. Is it on the wall going forward?

Will we drop off this year?

 

 

 

RJay, you're either on too many drugs or not enough if you think it's a good idea to drop Tom McDonald to Casey. I'm closer to where you're at re Trac.

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I reckon it could be a bit like 1999, 98 we had an amazing lead into finals some great finals wins to lose the prelim.  99 wasnt a good year few older players were done.  Then 2000 

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I'm not entirely sure what people want. After the game I was [censored] off. I still am.

But there's very little that can be done about the number of injuries and surgeries. I think they pretty much nailed the best available 22 yesterday given the attempt to balance picking experience and the formula that worked last year and making drastic changes. Sparrow as a late in tells me they were getting pretty desperate. 

The main thing I want Goodwin and Co to change:

No more talking about our brand, contested footy and getting the game on our terms. More talk about players executing skills, team first attitudes and disciplined smart football. I want a team that has a style but can adapt and withstand the opposition, not purely bludgeon them because you can't simply beat up on every team every week. 

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We have some good players that are down on form, and some good players still to come back into the side. Yesterday was rubbish, but it's a bit too early to can 2019 as a failure.

Let's see what happens in the next few weeks.

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46 minutes ago, Return to Glory said:

RJay, you're either on too many drugs or not enough if you think it's a good idea to drop Tom McDonald to Casey. I'm closer to where you're at re Trac.

 

RE: McDonald, I have been a little concerned about the 666 limiting his main strength, which is his ability to cover the ground, end to end running and wearing opponents down, running them off their feet and getting loose/advantageous positioning.

Beyond that, I’m not sure what his great attributes are. Long straight kicking & sticky hands? Bare essentials for a tall forward. I think in time he’ll figure out how to use his running ability in this new system, but yesterday it didn’t work for him.

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I’m not arguing against it being a trend. The signs of NQR were there during the JLT and they have carried through to the season proper.

For whatever reason, the players are not well conditioned. Shorter pre season. Off season surgeries. There may be a other factors but physically we looked a step behind the opponent from quarter time onwards. Which meant we couldn’t chase. Which also meant we couldn’t spread. Which affects the quickness of transition out of defence. Fitness and conditioning or lack thereof has a wide ranging flow on effect.

Essentially I think we’re looking at a few weeks before we are up and firing. If we can pinch a few games in the process then that’s a bonus.

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If we're going to have a wake up call I would prefer it to be like yesterday where every shortcoming was on offer like a glass slipper on a velvet cushion.

Rather than scraping in a comeback win yesterday, hypothetically going down by 3 pts to Geelong and blaming it on home ground advantage, ... and limping to the 6th round at 2-4 and saying we're just unlucky/the umps hate us/or some such malarkey ... while our rivals power on ...

No hiding now!

Now we can get to tackle it all head on with only one round gone.

Second to the ball, fumbly when we did get it -- football crimes.

But the slackness in giving them so much space to work in ... we saw that at times last year. We fixed it then and can fix it now. Mostly it's (as ever) all between the ears -- for the players AND the coaching staff.

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38 minutes ago, Mach5 said:

 

RE: McDonald, I have been a little concerned about the 666 limiting his main strength, which is his ability to cover the ground, end to end running and wearing opponents down, running them off their feet and getting loose/advantageous positioning.

Beyond that, I’m not sure what his great attributes are. Long straight kicking & sticky hands? Bare essentials for a tall forward. I think in time he’ll figure out how to use his running ability in this new system, but yesterday it didn’t work for him.

The way Tom grabbed some of those contested marks in the finals last year against good opposition, shows that IMO the 666 shouldn't limit his ability to take those contested marks. I just don't think he's hit his straps this year.

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Let's just... calm down.  Even a little.

@rjay - while I won't necessarily argue that there are a few warning signs there, I think we need a far larger sample size on the season before we truly know where we're at as a side.  Calling for this player to be dropped and so forth isn't going to fix the issue.  In fact, the issue isn't personnel based, it's game plan based.  With a hint of a poor off season sprinkled on top.

We have essentially the same side that got us to a prelim.  We have a coach who has shown he is willing to change things, and he previously put together a game plan that was extremely solid.  Outside of a few poor games, we took on all comers with it and played exhilarating football.  

So before we all jump off the West Gate, let's show a little patience and allow the side to get rolling, to get back to full fitness and to deal with the changes we need to make with the new rules in place.  Let's have some faith in the players and coaches who got us to our first finals series in a decade to turn things around.

 

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Funny how five of the teams favoured to finish top four or thereabouts all lost in the first round: West Coast, Melbourne, Adelaide, Collingwood and Essendon. Guess they're all thinking their season's finished. 

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4 minutes ago, mauriesy said:

Funny how five of the teams favoured to finish top four or thereabouts all lost in the first round: West Coast, Melbourne, Adelaide, Collingwood and Essendon. Guess they're all thinking their season's finished. 

It does put it into perspective a little, even if it doesn't take anything away from our effort.  There are 22 rounds to go and the season is a marathon, not a sprint.  I don't think any of the above five, outside of the Bombers who have been terrible, would be panicking at this stage.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Wiseblood said:

In fact, the issue isn't personnel based, it's game plan based.

It's player based 'Wise'...

We have holes in the list we haven't filled.

We are in desperate need of a class small forward and we're not sure our tall forwards will fill the bill.

As for tall backs. Players, May & Lever replace players Frost and Omac...do you think that makes us better?

Or we just keep those 2 and adjust the game plan. No amount of planning can fix substandard footballers.

I'm quite calm by the way and I'm looking at a sample of the last 4 games not just yesterday.

Yesterday was on the cards and true to our recent form, that's why the writing was on the wall.

Unless a few players like Trac, Tmac, Weideman & a couple of others jump up this year then the writing is on the wall.

Salem looks like he might which is good, lets hope he finds a few mates.

Not saying we won't make it and hope yesterday was a wake up call but that's the 4th wake up call in a row and they're still asleep.

2 hours ago, Return to Glory said:

you think it's a good idea to drop Tom McDonald to Casey

Only half joking with that one 'Return'...

Tommy is a senior player and he talks a good game.

He needs to stop talking, get back to playing a good game and lead from the front.

He frustrates me as he talks as much BS as a politician at times.

Edited by rjay
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3 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Overreaction with a lot of it.

It is Round 1 after all.

But I agree there are some warning signs and problems that still haven't been addressed.

Not really, where is the over reaction 'steve'???

A lot of it is similar to things you have posted over the last couple of seasons.

I've never been a Frost fan, and I've come around to your view on Oscar.

ANB couldn't catch a cold or hit the side of a barn with a shot gun and he's probably our best small forward at the moment.

All clubs have list problems but some of the media talk saying ours was complete and primed is off the mark I reckon.

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Massive overreaction to one match.  We played terribly; it’s not as though we gave it our best but we’re outclassed on the day.  

We were run off our feet on 31 degree day by a team that had a month head start on us over preseason.  Same thing happened to West Coast, Collingwood and Richmond (Carlton are very, very average but this game was close.)  

Richmond started on fire, slowed and were almost overrun.  

West Cost started on fire, slowed and were overrun.

We, started on fire, slowed and were overrun.

Not to mention the fact that we also had most of our better players in the operating room over preseason.

It is nothing short of lunacy to write off or in any team after round one of a very long season.  Give it at least another month and we’ll have a better idea of where we’re at.  Realistically, we won’t know how the season’s panning out until the bye.

We should also be giving much more credit to port- they were excellent.

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2 hours ago, Mach5 said:

 

RE: McDonald, I have been a little concerned about the 666 limiting his main strength, which is his ability to cover the ground, end to end running and wearing opponents down, running them off their feet and getting loose/advantageous positioning.

Beyond that, I’m not sure what his great attributes are. Long straight kicking & sticky hands? Bare essentials for a tall forward. I think in time he’ll figure out how to use his running ability in this new system, but yesterday it didn’t work for him.

I had very similar sentiments today when watching Jeremy Cameron go about it. 

Tmac is going to have his work cut out for him with new set up. 

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    HELP by KC rom Casey

    The Casey Demons finished off their home and away season against Frankston at Skybus Stadium on Sunday with a narrow, unconvincing 6-point victory that left the door slightly open for a top eight berth when the VFL finals begin in a fortnight’s time. While sunny skies prevailed over Frankston in the morning, the skies became overcast by noon and heavy waves pounded the bay nearby as the rains came in to greet the players as the game started. And conditions stayed dark and dreary for the rem

    Demonland
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    Casey Articles

    THANKS BUT NO THANKS by George on the Outer

    Thanks, but no thanks! In a round where the club was supposed to thank their fans for the support during the year, the Melbourne Football Club chose to do otherwise with a 53 point loss to a team that sat 15th on the ladder.  Don’t give us cheap jumpers that can’t be sold in the Demon shop.  Don’t give us vouchers to shop there, give us something on the field, which is why we come to the football in the first place. It was a disgraceful performance, which started with a disgracefu

    Demonland
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    Match Reports

    SLEEP OUT AT THE MCG by The Oracle

    Around about 12 months ago Melbourne and Sydney fought out an epic battle between two top eight teams fighting for the best possible ladder position in the lead up to the finals. The Swans triumphed by 9 points at the MCG after the Demons came back from five goals down at three quarter time. But for its poor kicking for goal, Melbourne might well have won the game and finished in the top four. Who knows what might then have happened for the club in September? As a consequence, the person re

    Demonland
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    Match Previews

    A LITTLE RAY OF SUNSHINE by KC from Casey

    Two clubs that have been hard hit by injury recently took part in a dour battle under dark clouds and, with intermittent showers falling, it wasn’t a pretty game at Victoria Park on Sunday. Despite all that, the Casey Demons added a little ray of sunshine to their day to get the job done over a "traditional" rival with a 15 point victory over Collingwood VFL that breathed life back into their season. There were a few highlights at the ground that in past days has seen many titanic batt

    Demonland
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    Casey Articles

    THE RETRO ROUND by George on the Outer

    We have seen it all before… Yes, a wonderful idea to showcase what used to be in football.  Big crowds, umpires who knew how to apply the rules and not opinions, high marks, skilful players. But for the Melbourne supporters their retro is what it has been like for the past 10 years. Losing games, end on end, year after year.  Opportunities squandered in front of goal. VFL standard players running around at the MCG. Just more of the same, and the game against Collingwood was no ex

    Demonland
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    Match Reports

    THE PEOPLE SPEAK by The Demonland Crew

    Thanks to Demonlanders for their input into this week’s preview. Ralphius Maximus is short and bittersweet: We'll crack in at the bounce to create a contest, win our share of the ball, butcher the forward movement and get scored on easily from the intercepts. Not that hard to predict. Big Demon says: Unfortunately Collingwood will win because they have a lot more to play for. We will be good in parts but really the season is well over so we will have to put up with those bell

    Demonland
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    Match Previews

    WHAT, NO BLOOD? by George on the Outer

    The feeling when turning up to the MCG on a Saturday night to play a top four side in Richmond, while the Melbourne sits cemented in close proximity to the bottom of the table is like attending the Colosseum in Ancient Roman times. The expectation is that a bloodbath is about to occur. There are 100,000 Richmond members and 50,000 Melbourne members, and despite the fact that it turned out to be a wet night after half-time, a crowd of only 37K bothered to turn up. That should never have happ

    Demonland
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    Match Reports

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