Farewell Jesse Hogan

[Red and Blue realist 2,026]

8 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Hogan needs to do us all a favour and put forward his intentions ASAP to put us all out of this our misery. 

So far only the journo's have said anything, I love it that the club has stayed silent. Clearly they must be meeting with Jesse this week and sorting it out. There's also be silence from Jesse and also from his manager. Could be the biggest non-story of the post-season (and likely will be every year even if he re-signed for the long term). 

Edited September 27, 2018 by Red and Blue realist

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

It's not in the AFL's rules per se, it's part of the CBA so really any changes should only occur every 5 years or so.

See what I mean? It makes my head hurt. Plus I follow other sports with similar but slightly different rules, and I just can't keep up anymore. I'm only interested when a Scully/Hogan happens...

That's what you're for.

[SFebes 4,692]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

 

I just want a flag

Stuff that, I want another wooden spoon, I love the pain.

Edited September 27, 2018 by SFebes

[jnrmac 18,940]

46 minutes ago, Olgreybeard49 said:

At the risk of adding a boring factual component - the tax position is probably better than that due to sportsperson averaging, basically a provision that recognises the relatively short high earning period and allows spreading income over time. This is not advice, boring disclaimer, boring disclaimer that normally runs for 17 pages more.

Much more interesting - how do we use the 2 first round draft picks the deal would take?

This wouldn't apply to a Hogan on a fixed contract. More like an actor, artist or musician that has variable earnings over a 2-3 year period.

My real point here is that once tax etc is taken into account the difference between a Melbourne offer of say $1m pa and a Freo at say $1.2m pa is minimised significantly. Some might take the extra $100k a year others might not be swayed by that and all of the pressure it entails when they can stay and likely play finals without any greater pressure than they are under already....

Ultimately if he wants to go home he will but my undertstanding is he like living here and likes the music scene etc. He stays for mine. 

 

Edited September 27, 2018 by jnrmac

[Dr. Gonzo 22,410]

7 minutes ago, SFebes said:

Stuff that, I want another wooden spoon.

Then we'd at least have early draft picks

[Macca 16,173]

I reckon a few here are undervaluing Hogan a bit too.  The club is hopefully valueing Hogan as a valuable player who we don't want to lose.

And that value is that he is injury free from here on in and can play forward, back and in the middle in a topline fashion.  As a utility he is right up there.

So if you want him pay up.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Peter Bell playing the ball beautifully. Maher put to him Langdon's comments that he's staying. Bell says "Langdon's mail is considered pretty good, I'll just say Jesse's a contracted player and we respect that"

[Mr Steve 3,820]

16 minutes ago, SFebes said:

Stuff that, I want another wooden spoon, I love the pain.

No one told me following a successful club would be more stressful than following a crap one. 

[beelzebub 22,225]

If you had no intention of going anywhere ( at least at the moment ) ...would you not say just that. This wouldnt harm his negotiating position one iota.He doesnt have to sign another Dees contract for a while. Say youre playing at Melb in 2019...let your efforts and such drive your value.

or...if you really are open to a move...Say Nothing. Lets the bidding begin

If youve ALREADY decided on a change of scenery then for mine you still dont really need to say anything...just let your manager earn his money. I think hes doing just that

What has made him suddenly ( probably not )  open to a move ?  There would be in my eye absolutely no surprise in a giant offer from Freo. I very much doubt Melb would/should pay what Freo are prepared to.  If say freo are offering silly money over 5 years...( or more ) then we could well be talking of a difference of 2-1/2 Million dollars. Thats got to be a serious attention grabber.

[MurDoc516 1,304]

9 pages of arguing over draft picks, taxes and who to win a flag with is what i just caught up on. Still no news is dissapointing. If he wanted to leave i'd like the club to just say it. I think most people would be okay with it and then we can talk about what we are getting with knowing he's gone. If he's staying then sure don't say a word, we need to find a way to get some draft picks because our list has a massive hole in it.

Edited September 27, 2018 by MurDoc516

[daisycutter 28,484]

53 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

That would be a great outcome if true. Freo are likely to still have a top 5 pick next year and Hogan would still have to be traded there (as you say he is not a FA although will be out of contract).

Are you sure he isn't a RFA until 2021? My understanding for the last few years has been the year he spent with us but ineligible for the senior list counts as tenure towards his FA status. I remember the issue coming up a few years ago for one of the Suns/Giants pre-selections who were taken underage and spent a year with them before going on the senior list (Shiel, Cameron etc). Would be great if someone could clear this up, I don't want to spread false info but I am certain that was the AFL's position.

whether it is 2020 or 2021 it is still not 2019 when his current contract ends

[Macca 16,173]

The reported yearly offer ($1.2Million?) ups the ante even further (for us)

Sure, we can win without him but if you are in a position of strength you do not give an inch.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Macca

[beelzebub 22,225]

1 minute ago, Macca said:

The reported offer ($1.2Million?) ups the ante even further (for us)

Sure, we can win without him but if you are in a position of strength you do not give an inch.

you had me at this.

Thats OUR position of strength

[Red and Blue realist 2,026]

10 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

If you had no intention of going anywhere ( at least at the moment ) ...would you not say just that. This wouldnt harm his negotiating position one iota.He doesnt have to sign another Dees contract for a while. Say youre playing at Melb in 2019...let your efforts and such drive your value.

or...if you really are open to a move...Say Nothing. Lets the bidding begin

If youve ALREADY decided on a change of scenery then for mine you still dont really need to say anything...just let your manager earn his money. I think hes doing just that

What has made him suddenly ( probably not )  open to a move ?  There would be in my eye absolutely no surprise in a giant offer from Freo. I very much doubt Melb would/should pay what Freo are prepared to.  If say freo are offering silly money over 5 years...( or more ) then we could well be talking of a difference of 2-1/2 Million dollars. Thats got to be a serious attention grabber.

Didn't Jack Watts say something about loving the club last year and he ended up been shown the door. By not saying anything the narrative can be controlled if it turns out the FD are going to take a god-father offer but haven't told Jesse about it yet? Same as for the football club, they don't want to come out and say we aren't going to let him go if he comes in and says goodbye. 

[Bobby McKenzie 2,169]

9 minutes ago, MurDoc516 said:

9 pages of arguing over draft picks, taxes and who to win a flag with is what i just caught up on. Still no news is dissapointing. If he wanted to leave i'd like the club to just say it. I think most people would be okay with it and then we can talk about what we are getting with knowing he's gone. If he's staying then sure don't say a word, we need to find a way to get some draft picks because our list has a massive hole in it.

Massive hole? I would hate to see the size of the hole with all those clubs that finished below us.

[daisycutter 28,484]

hmmm........heard nothing yet from freo, mfc, player manager or player

so......definitely going

there again...........

where there's smoke there's fire......but.... it ain't over until the fat lady sings.....take your pick (suckers)

[Smokey 4,115]

29 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

This wouldn't apply to a Hogan on a fixed contract. More like an actor, artist or musician that has variable earnings over a 2-3 year period.

My real point here is that once tax etc is taken into account the difference between a Melbourne offer of say $1m pa and a Freo at say $1.2m pa is minimised significantly. Some might take the extra $100k a year others might not be swayed by that and all of the pressure it entails when they can stay and likely play finals without any greater pressure than they are under already....

Ultimately if he wants to go home he will but my undertstanding is he like living here and likes the music scene etc. He stays for mine. 

 

All this tax talk has me thinking. To any people here proficient in tax: 

Could a player set up a company, have their salary paid to the company - and then pay themselves a modest wage over a period of time to save on tax? In theory that person could buy assets under the company too, like houses and cars etc. Hello 30%? 

[beelzebub 22,225]

3 minutes ago, Red and Blue realist said:

Didn't Jack Watts say something about loving the club last year and he ended up been shown the door. By not saying anything the narrative can be controlled if it turns out the FD are going to take a god-father offer but haven't told Jesse about it yet? Same as for the football club, they don't want to come out and say we aren't going to let him go if he comes in and says goodbye. 

Very different situations here but I see your point in no-one saying anything....in a fashion.

The club have already said he's a required player...or some such similar. Imho no one's going to really say much til they have to. Officially trades haven't started ( lol ) . 

As I said to another... All we are seeing is everybody's dance moves. That said some are pretty sure who's going home with who !!

The club needs to control the public narrative ...yes. Not thinking they're in charge in the back room.

[hemingway 7,589]

27 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

If you had no intention of going anywhere ( at least at the moment ) ...would you not say just that. This wouldnt harm his negotiating position one iota.He doesnt have to sign another Dees contract for a while. Say youre playing at Melb in 2019...let your efforts and such drive your value.

or...if you really are open to a move...Say Nothing. Lets the bidding begin

If youve ALREADY decided on a change of scenery then for mine you still dont really need to say anything...just let your manager earn his money. I think hes doing just that

What has made him suddenly ( probably not )  open to a move ?  There would be in my eye absolutely no surprise in a giant offer from Freo. I very much doubt Melb would/should pay what Freo are prepared to.  If say freo are offering silly money over 5 years...( or more ) then we could well be talking of a difference of 2-1/2 Million dollars. Thats got to be a serious attention grabber.

Exactly, perfect summary of probable situation. 

[Moonshadow 16,157]

14 minutes ago, Smokey said:

All this tax talk has me thinking. To any people here proficient in tax: 

Could a player set up a company, have their salary paid to the company - and then pay themselves a modest wage over a period of time to save on tax? In theory that person could buy assets under the company too, like houses and cars etc. Hello 30%? 

Family trust might do it

[Diamond_Jim 11,720]

15 minutes ago, Smokey said:

All this tax talk has me thinking. To any people here proficient in tax: 

Could a player set up a company, have their salary paid to the company - and then pay themselves a modest wage over a period of time to save on tax? In theory that person could buy assets under the company too, like houses and cars etc. Hello 30%? 

Believe me it's been tried but it doesn't work.

The more juicy possibility though is selling your image/marketing rights to an offshore entity. Works well for the big multi international soccer stars

Trouble is the AFL rules are a little tough there and other than for a very few there's not much money in marketing for AFL players.

A family member as your diary keeper etc is a common dodge but it's small beer.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Diamond_Jim

[DTJ 95]

What do Demonlanders think about pick 5 and Andrew Brayshaw for Hogan?

[Demons11 6,404]

1 minute ago, DTJ said:

What do Demonlanders think about pick 5 and Andrew Brayshaw for Hogan?

Won’t happen. 

I’d say pick 5 and a 2nd rounder 

Edited September 27, 2018 by Demons11

[bing181 8,151]

All those “Dees better without Hogan” articles and posts couldn’t have helped his frame of mind re staying. 

[ManDee 7,076]

19 minutes ago, Smokey said:

All this tax talk has me thinking. To any people here proficient in tax: 

Could a player set up a company, have their salary paid to the company - and then pay themselves a modest wage over a period of time to save on tax? In theory that person could buy assets under the company too, like houses and cars etc. Hello 30%? 

What is the purpose of the entity? If the purpose is to reduce tax the answer is no.