On 24/09/2018 at 23:01, Bombay Airconditioning said:

If we were to get picks 4 & 5 (I think that’s what Freo will have) could we not then split them up with other picks/players and land May and a Mid. 

We need to be creative and go hard.

That’s what I am advocating for mate. If we get something done that allows for that, then ok. But if not, if it’s one for one, no deal

  On 25/09/2018 at 01:41, Dr.D said:

I just want people here to discuss dees players strengths AND weaknessds. my pet peeve are fans that think every dees player is gods gift to footy.

+1.

The Denham article is total click bait. Freo seem to make a huge offer every year, yet Hogan has stayed. Why would things change now, especially with us coming in to our premiership window and him being very settled in Victoria? Plus Freo are garbage. 

I know WA is his home town but he has said that he feels more and more at home in Victoria every year. Freo might make the offer, but I can easily see Hogan turning it down and signing a new four year deal with us. 

  On 25/09/2018 at 01:41, Dr.D said:

I just want people here to discuss dees players strengths AND weaknessds. my pet peeve are fans that think every dees player is gods gift to footy.

My pet peeve is people who can't spelt.

  On 25/09/2018 at 01:41, Dr.D said:

I just want people here to discuss dees players strengths AND weaknessds. my pet peeve are fans that think every dees player is gods gift to footy.

Sure you do, when people have discussed Jessie's very obvious strength's you've ignored them all just because you see a weeknessds that you've banged on and on about.  

Edited September 25, 20186 yr by Red and Blue realist

  On 25/09/2018 at 01:41, Dr.D said:

I just want people here to discuss dees players strengths AND weaknessds. my pet peeve are fans that think every dees player is gods gift to footy.

Absolute BS!!

You’ve labelled Jesse a staging sook many times. That’s not a discussion. Members have provided stats and their reasons for wanting to keep him and you’ve rubbished them. 

  On 24/09/2018 at 23:09, SFebes said:

What if we lose Hogan and get Preuss, Gaff, May, Shiel, Jack Martin as well as getting Lever back next year - would people be happy then?

 

  On 25/09/2018 at 01:41, Dr.D said:

I just want people here to discuss dees players strengths AND weaknessds. my pet peeve are fans that think every dees player is gods gift to footy.

Pop over the Petty post then....there's some champion data happening over there

  On 20/09/2018 at 11:29, beelzebub said:

Or they could just be in each other's way. 

Or more positional options, flexibility and depth.

Denham's article in the Oz is a paragon of opinion dressed up as fact.  The only part that veers close to a a statement is prefaced with "it is understood" which is an old journalistic trick. Easy to deny - easy to say "told ya so". Appropriately Supernaut's "I Like it Both Ways" is a West Australian song.

"It is understood Melbourne are prepared to consider sacrificing Hogan for May after their glaring deficiency in defence against West Coast in last Saturday’s 11-goal preliminary final defeat, even with top backman Jake Lever expected back early next season from a knee reconstruction."

No way am I giving Hogan for ONLY Freo's pick 6 from Freo to ontrade for May. 

 

  On 25/09/2018 at 02:04, Dee Zephyr said:

Absolute BS!!

You’ve labelled Jesse a staging sook many times. That’s not a discussion. Members have provided stats and their reasons for wanting to keep him and you’ve rubbished them. 

ok fair enough. I'll put it all on the table.

strengths: -1 on 1 marking (although not as good as a few seasons ago)

- aerobic capacity allows him to play multiple positions.

- goal kicking prowess: potential to kick 60 goals a season.

weaknesses

- defensive pressure.

-on field attitude

- goal kicking accuracy

- performances against top teams. 

i weigh all of these up and believe that nothing is more important than attitude. And that trumps all talent, especially when building a winning culture. 

  On 25/09/2018 at 01:57, binman said:

My pet peeve is people who can't spelt.

Soz! 

  On 25/09/2018 at 02:35, Tony Tea said:

Denham's article in the Oz is a paragon of opinion dressed up as fact.  The only part that veers close to a a statement is prefaced with "it is understood" which is an old journalistic trick. Easy to deny - easy to say "told ya so". Appropriately Supernaut's "I Like it Both Ways" is a West Australian song.

"It is understood Melbourne are prepared to consider sacrificing Hogan for May after their glaring deficiency in defence against West Coast in last Saturday’s 11-goal preliminary final defeat, even with top backman Jake Lever expected back early next season from a knee reconstruction."

No way am I giving Hogan for ONLY Freo's pick 6 from Freo to ontrade for May. 

 

Concur. No way we trade Hogan for May. May would have made no difference whatsoever last Saturday as it was coming in at a rate of knots due to lack of forward and mid pressure. You could have had May, Rance and Lever and it would not have changed the result.

Hogan is well liked by his team mates and I believe they would not be that happy if he goes and May comes in. Also May from what I hear at the Suns is not that well liked. I also do not rate him as a player or person and Hogan in my opinion (reiterate MY OPINION) has still plenty of upside.

It's going to be a long month

  On 25/09/2018 at 01:53, Wiseblood said:

The Denham article is total click bait.

 

Yep, sure.  It's behind a paywall which is a really interesting way to present click bait and it comes from a publication not noted for it's AFL coverage in the lead up to a GF which you'd think is much more interesting.

It might not be right but it's certainly not click bait.  You need to entertain the concept that Hogan may move.

Would want two first rounders for Hogan if the Lever trade is the precedent for young key position stars.

Get May and buy back into the first round of the super draft.

Giddy up.

  On 25/09/2018 at 02:56, Baghdad Bob said:

Yep, sure.  It's behind a paywall which is a really interesting way to present click bait and it comes from a publication not noted for it's AFL coverage in the lead up to a GF which you'd think is much more interesting.

It might not be right but it's certainly not click bait.  You need to entertain the concept that Hogan may move.

No, I don't. 

If you read the article, or looked at what others posted, then you'll realise that it's predicated on nothing more than Freo potentially making a big offer. Nothing more, nothing less. That's click bait. 

It's also behind a paywall so people sign up to read it. Again, that's click bait in its purest form. Come up with a big headline based on nothing to suck people in. 

  On 25/09/2018 at 03:09, Wiseblood said:

No, I don't. 

If you read the article, or looked at what others posted, then you'll realise that it's predicated on nothing more than Freo potentially making a big offer. Nothing more, nothing less. That's click bait. 

It's also behind a paywall so people sign up to read it. Again, that's click bait in its purest form. Come up with a big headline based on nothing to suck people in. 

1

Rubbish.  How many people would sign up to a subscription to the Australian to see one article on Hogan.  You've obviously never read the Australian!

And you really don't know what it's predicated on.  Denham might be privy to much more information but can't quote it.  IMO he's not going to go on nothing and is one of the more reliable and sensible AFL reporters.

But you're welcome to ignore it, that's certainly the easier option.

I think Jesse's future at the club really comes down to Jesse and the coaches.

Prior to this years trade period, Jesse needs to convince himself that the coaches plans for 2019 and beyond suit his best interests, particularly considering the growth of Weid, return of Lever and maybe to a lesser extent the value of Frost experienced in the second half of 2018. The addition of Preuss is another interesting layer. 

Our current game plan and structure will need to change to fit them all in, I'd be of the view Weid wouldn't be pleased if he spent large chunks of next year in the VFL. 

Can the coaches conjure a plan that sees McDonald, Weid and Hogan function in the same side? My instinct would be to try lean Jesse off 5 kgs, not unlike Max did over last summer, and run him more through the midfield./ wing. Similar to Mathew Richardson late in his career. This would allow TMac to stay close to goal and Weid to change between ruck and forward.

For this to work Jesse would need to run both ways, faster than he does today and work on his lateral movement and reactions, especially defensively

  On 23/09/2018 at 21:46, Dr.D said:

Lol you guys are unbelievable. you're so obsessed with stats. Stats only tell a little bit of the story. Kennedy doesn't stop chasing and harrasing and applies relentless pressure inside 50m. There's no stats for chasing, There's no stats for implied pressure.

Giving me tackle and goal numbers of kennedy/hogan etc. Seriously? You were probably the ones comparing watts to riewoldt statistically. 

Hogan is terrible defensively and is attitude on field is a disgrace. He stages for free kicks and complains to the umpire when the ball is still in play. I know its hard for simpletons to look deeper than his goal tally and high draft position but he needs to dramatically improve his defensive pressure. 

I was also one of the only posters in this forum at the start of the year that wanted to see more from petracca to prove that he had the polish to go to the next step as an afl player. And after this season now the media are on to him and realising that his disposal is poor and kicking for goal disgraceful. It usually takes people an extra season to look past a players draft position and call it as they see it. And i might add that anyone who thought jack watts was a good player and shouldve stayed should ban themselves from any football forum. Seriously embarassing the amount of people that thought pick 31 waa getting unders for him. 

 

do you mean chasing and harrasing and pressure like this at  4.45????

 

http://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/2018/20/melb-v-gcfc

 

 

  On 25/09/2018 at 03:17, Baghdad Bob said:

Rubbish.  How many people would sign up to a subscription to the Australian to see one article on Hogan.  You've obviously never read the Australian!

And you really don't know what it's predicated on.  Denham might be privy to much more information but can't quote it.  IMO he's not going to go on nothing and is one of the more reliable and sensible AFL reporters.

But you're welcome to ignore it, that's certainly the easier option.

And you're welcome to be sucked in by it. 

And if you don't think these publications are trying to get people to subscribe then I don't know what to tell you. 

As Tony says, on the off chance Hogan does leave he's worth more than pick 6.  He's worth more than a basic swap for May.

I love Hogan and always have.  It's my preference for him to stay, however, I'll be less gutted than I would have been a year or two ago.  

  On 25/09/2018 at 00:23, DemonTux said:

unless they dont get a pick for neal and it's all tied up in a 3 way with more players than picks... i.e. we get Brayshore and May for hogan and GC get Neal basically for May... ok then picks to balance

No way we get Brayshaw and May for Hogan

What a ridiculous thread.

Hogan is one of key pillars to build on for the future. In the first half of the season he was arguably our best player and certainly in the top 3. Ran all day, averaged over 3 goals a game, played deep mid, a nightmare to match up on.

in 2-3 years I think he will be the best fwd in the game kicking 60+ a year when he matures a bit more, learns to use his body better and get into space

he loves the club and wants to stay

not on the trade table.

  On 25/09/2018 at 03:32, Demons11 said:

No way we get Brayshaw and May for Hogan

Why?

I'm not so certain that Brayshaw is what we need by the way...

But, back to your point. Hogan is worth a lot to Freo and to us.

If we're going to give him up we will need substantial compensation.