Steven Silvagni and Carlton

[dazzledavey36 54,331]

Did anyone see the interview with SOS on footy classified the other night? Not sure what to make off it.. thought SOS didn't handle himself that well..

Carlton are 1-15 atm, i think there are some high end talent on that list shouldnt justify their ladder position. Carltons list of 2018 is far better then Melbournes 2013 list.

So whats the issue? Is it coach? Culture? SOS?

[whatwhat say what 22,702]

Thought he was simultaneously super defensive and aggressive 

It was not a good performance at all

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,693]

2 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

Thought he was simultaneously super defensive and aggressive 

It was not a good performance at all

While I agree with your assessment, Carlton supporters appear to think SOS won the battle. And it was a battle.

[SFebes 4,884]

I actually thought he was well prepared and answered his questions well. Caro is a troublemaker of the highest order, that in itself would make any normal person frustrated.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,693]

I should add that SOS deserves high credit for agreeing to participate at all, given where his club is at.

[Sir Why You Little 36,987]

18 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Carltons list of 2018 is far better then Melbournes 2013 list.

So whats the issue? Is it coach? Culture? SOS?

Is it?

I dispute that. Both lists are horrible. The Win/Loss ratio tells us

Carlscum as a club, do not understand rules, they haven’t for 55 years. They have no idea about grooming talent. 

Carlscum like to buy Champions and now they can’t. Bolton should run, whilst he can

Losing Bryce Gibbs finished them off

 

Edited July 18, 2018 by Sir Why You Little

[dazzledavey36 54,331]

8 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I should add that SOS deserves high credit for agreeing to participate at all, given where his club is at.

So he should, he is much to blame for getting this club into this mess for the amount of duds hes brought into that side.

I always shake my head how hes escaped scrutiny for not only Carltons rebuild but also at GWS to start off with.

 

[dazzledavey36 54,331]

4 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Is it?

I dispute that. Both lists are are horrible. The Win/Loss ratio tells us

Carlscum as a club, do not understand rules, they haven’t for 55 years. They have no idea about grooming talent. 

Carlscum like to buy Champions and now they can’t. Bolton should run, whilst he can

Losing Bryce Gibbs finished them off

 

I honestly feel like they have a good spine to really build on for the next few years if they can get it right.

Marchbank, Plowman, Weitering, McKay, Curnow, Cripps, Dow, O'Brien

You could build a decent side sround these blokes. I look at those names compared to what we had back in 2013 and think that only Viney, Toumpas, Hogan and maybe even Kent at the time were names that could see have bright futures..

[Sir Why You Little 36,987]

1 minute ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I honestly feel like they have a good spine to really build on for the next few years if they can get it right.

Marchbank, Plowman, Weitering, McKay, Curnow, Cripps, Dow, O'Brien

You could build a decent side sround these blokes. I look at those names compared to what we had back in 2013 and think that only Viney, Toumpas, Hogan and maybe even Kent at the time were names that could see have bright futures..

Weirering is ordinary Cripps is getting smashed to early, like Jack Trengove. The other players you mention, i haven’t seen enough of, or don’t notice them!!

Most of these kids won’t have long careers because they are given no protection. 

Can’t wait to play them again

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

9 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I honestly feel like they have a good spine to really build on for the next few years if they can get it right.

Marchbank, Plowman, Weitering, McKay, Curnow, Cripps, Dow, O'Brien

You could build a decent side sround these blokes. I look at those names compared to what we had back in 2013 and think that only Viney, Toumpas, Hogan and maybe even Kent at the time were names that could see have bright futures..

The spine is there, some genuine star players already which we never had. It's just the rest of their team is woeful.

SOS was terrible at GWS, some of his top five picks there make Prendergast look good.

If only we took Curnow instead of Weideman.

[DSP 1,488]

15 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Is it?

I dispute that. Both lists are horrible. The Win/Loss ratio tells us

Carlscum as a club, do not understand rules, they haven’t for 55 years. They have no idea about grooming talent. 

Carlscum like to buy Champions and now they can’t. Bolton should run, whilst he can

Losing Bryce Gibbs finished them off

 

You are forgetting just how bad we were.

Strauss, Blease, Nicholson, Sellar, Magnar, Gillies, Rodan and on and on..

It was an absolute **** show.

Carlton has a much better list.

[beelzebub 23,313]

Last time we played them they looked pretty spineless

[Sir Why You Little 36,987]

4 minutes ago, DSP said:

You are forgetting just how bad we were.

Strauss, Blease, Nicholson, Sellar, Magnar, Gillies, Rodan and on and on..

It was an absolute **** show.

Carlton has a much better list.

On paper yes. But they are just as horrible as we were on field. 

and yes i do remember how bad we were!!!

[monoccular 17,413]

20 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Last time we played them they looked pretty spineless

... and bruise free 

[pineapple dee 2,892]

4 minutes ago, monoccular said:

... and bruise free 

 

4 minutes ago, monoccular said:

... and bruise free 

They were also Mitch Robinson free which was a major improvement !!!

[Clintosaurus 7,838]

I think Silvagni believes he nailed every pick at GWS and if he got enough of to Carlton they would all be guns and win a flag by this or next year.

Definitely deserves serious scrutiny.

[george_on_the_outer 7,580]

The talent that Carlton has on its list is considerable.  However, like we were prior to Roos, you can have all the talent you wish, but you have to develop and import maturity to get results. 

SoS made the claim that much of the talent was sourced by letting go of the likes of Tuohy, Garlett, Betts, Waite, Gibbs.  Trouble is, has that made the side any better?  The results don't show it. 

The problem for Carlton is they got rid of their mature players, and replaced them with not only talent, but a swathe of duds, particularly from GWS.  But as SWYL said, their success over many years was dependant upon buying players.  Their culture knows no other, and until they learn ( as we did with Roos) that you develop the talent and you supplement with maturity, then they will be destined to the bottom reaches for a long long time. 

How would our side look without Hibberd, Garlett, Melksham, Vince, & Lewis?  How much better is the side because of the development that went into Jetta, OMac, Hunt, Harmes and ANB who are all regular first 22 when fit? 

The sad thing is that like happened to us in years past, that the talented youngsters like Cripps, McKay, Weitering, Curnow etc, will fade because they are just getting smashed each week since they have no support around them.  Losing by 10 goals regularly does nothing for confidence, and the willingness to turn up every week.  It becomes a cancer, once again, as we have seen.  Murphy is as disinterested as possible, further compounding the problem. 

Their situation will worsen as Kruezer and Simpson don't have much left, and to replace them will take years of development. 

 

Edited July 18, 2018 by george_on_the_outer

[Wiseblood 24,637]

2 minutes ago, george_on_the_outer said:

 

How would our side look without Hibberd, Garlett, Melksham, Vince, & Lewis?  How much better is the side because of the development that went into Jetta, OMac, Hunt, Harmes and ANB who are all regular first 22 when fit? 

 

 

This is a great post george, and I think this part is what stood out to me the most.  We needed these experienced players not just on field, but off field as well, to help bring along the development of this footy club from a culture standpoint.  I think it's been mentioned in another thread where Roos stated he couldn't get guys like Cross and Vince into the club quickly enough when he arrived, and the Blues are suffering because they haven't done the same thing.  Instead, SOS went after as many GWS rejects as he could, with the vast majority of them not working out.

As you say, when Simpson, Kreuzer and Murphy go it will leave a further gaping hole on their list.  They'll struggle to attract quality players at the moment and, outside of a few of the kids (Cripps, Curnow, Marchbank), their is a real lack of talent, maturity and experience on the list.  I think they are in for a world of hurt in the coming years with no clear path out of it.  SOS has to take a large part of the blame for that.

[Sir Why You Little 36,987]

In the 70’s & 80’s Carlton just went to SA & WA and signed up whoever they wanted. 

A mate of mine was in charge of WA for years. Money was no obstacle

they stole Wayne Johnstone from under our nose

[dazzledavey36 54,331]

Makes you wonder if they're still feeling the effects from the Chris Judd trade.

Traded him in to bring them a premiership, but yet his groins were absolute shot. Traded out Josh Kennedy who is one of the genuine star forwards of the comp.

I guess giving away players like Betts, Waite, Garlett, Jacobs, Robinson doesnt help either..

[Sir Why You Little 36,987]

7 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Makes you wonder if they're still feeling the effects from the Chris Judd trade.

Traded him in to bring them a premiership, but yet his groins were absolute shot. Traded out Josh Kennedy who is one of the genuine star forwards of the comp.

I guess giving away players like Betts, Waite, Garlett, Jacobs, Robinson doesnt help either..

Meth Coke laughed at that deal. Judd had already got them a flag. He wanted to come home, and the got a young Key forward who was ready to go

i would have signed that deal in 5 minutes!!!!

[Dirts 429]

2 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

While I agree with your assessment, Carlton supporters appear to think SOS won the battle. And it was a battle.

Not a big fan of Carlton but was glad sos told Wilson what he thought. This lady is a pain in the arse along with the fat guy next to her. They have made a living out of making up stuff and causing duress to others.

Carlton have quality kids and I do see them improving. Funny, the hawks were the laughing stock of the afl between 2003-2006 . How that changed. 

[DeeSpencer 25,495]

Sos has mainly done a good job, I think more than anything injuries have killed them this year. This was meant to be their last down year before improving and you have to start building some cohesion for that to occur.

He shouldn't be fired by questions should be asked to Bolton why opening up their game plan has seen such disastrous skills. He came from a teaching and Hawthorn background - he should be able to develop skills. Of course kicking relies on the running - both effort and smarts - to make it look good but just basic skill wise the Blues haven't looked good.

Sos made the point about their trades out bringing good draft picks and therefore good players in and that's fair enough:
Touhey - Marchbank
Yarran - Cunningham
Henderson - McKay
Gibbs for 2 firsts

FB: Plowman Weitering
HB: Docherty   Marchbank 
C;  O'Brien   Cripps  Murphy
HF: SPS   C. Curnow Fisher
FF: Pickett  McKay
Foll: Kreuzer   Kennedy  Dow

There's still plenty there to work with but it's amazing Carlton haven't had many late round success stories, nor have they found any hidden gems on the list. I guess Jones to some extent. But Roos found Jetta, Dunn and Pedersen off the scrap heap amongst others I guess and they were useful parts in getting us back in to games. Then the same thing with getting Cross, Vince, Garlett etc.

Fisher might have had the most impact as a young midfielder as well. Dow, SPS, Kennedy, O'Brien, Cunnigham haven't delivered consistently which is ok, it just hurts the rebuild. We got a huge kick out of Tyson, then Brayshaw as a half forward in his first year, and then Oliver and Petracca the next year were impact players.

[DeeSpencer 25,495]

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Makes you wonder if they're still feeling the effects from the Chris Judd trade.

Traded him in to bring them a premiership, but yet his groins were absolute shot. Traded out Josh Kennedy who is one of the genuine star forwards of the comp.

I guess giving away players like Betts, Waite, Garlett, Jacobs, Robinson doesnt help either..

The Judd trade wasn't great long term but the real harm it caused was it papered over the huge cracks in their draft and developing of players. With Judd, Murphy, Gibbs, Kreuzer and a handful of other good players - Scotland, Walker, the guys they gave away - they made finals with a decent team (and probably a decent coach in Ratten) but their list was disintegrating under them.

2 best 22 players in 8 years. That's almost hard to do.

 

[brendan 3,434]

Imagine if someone like Jason Taylor was at GWS Instead of SOS With all the picks they had they would have won the last 3 flags, the amount of picks they had he was bound to get some right