On 4/6/2019 at 3:22 PM, sisso said:

I reckon it’s less about outside mids and more about the entire side is playing like crap...getting beaten in contested ball by smaller and lighter opposition players then not bothering to defensively run hard are just two of the main issues

Need players with speed/endurance mix on wings and flanks.

Langdon fits that profile. Baker looks promising. 

Cant play inside mids on wing or flank. They'll get sucked into contest robbing us of width and they'll be outrun by their more athletic opponents.

An article by Mitch Robinson criticising the AA selectors by putting midfielders on the wings and not selecting any true 'wingmen'.not-selecting-genuine-wingmen

The real value of the article for me is It gives an amazing insight into the role of a wingmen and his importance in the 'modern' game. 

Interestingly, he says: "...put any full-time on-baller on the wing, you cut their stats in half". 

Reinventing Robinson as a wingman is a masterstroke by Fagan.

again got smashed on the outside. As I have said previously Angus Brayshaw is massively overrated and will not run two ways, clayton oliver is almost as bad

7 minutes ago, Elegt said:

again got smashed on the outside. As I have said previously Angus Brayshaw is massively overrated and will not run two ways, clayton oliver is almost as bad

How do you imply we got smashed on the outside when we actually won the uncontested possession count 187 to Carltons 162.......

Langdon, Tomlinson and Bennell are great outside additions.  If anything, we often looked outside to them too often instead of driving it fast and direct up the ground.

 

 

21 minutes ago, Elegt said:

again got smashed on the outside. As I have said previously Angus Brayshaw is massively overrated and will not run two ways, clayton oliver is almost as bad

And Cripps marked and hurt us forward, when Oliver was asleep at the wheel,  when he should have been minding Intently... Lever and May let Oliver know.

The defensive side of our so-called Elite gun Mids,  is Poor.

 

They are so far ahead of themselves,  it is concerning.  

We need more senior leadership,  to let these young bucks know what real footy is all about.   Before we waste another generation of top recruits.

9 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

How do you imply we got smashed on the outside when we actually won the uncontested possession count 187 to Carltons 162.......

I would bet Elegt is thinking of Carlton's long kicks down the wing.  When the Blues were up, it was that extra 30-50m gained with retained disposal that turned all the pressure back onto us and gave Carlton the breathing space to not feel flustered by our pressure.

I don't know how much that is a lack of the right personnel, but I expect it was very much a matter of inadequate run and, dare I say it, poor tactical responsiveness.

I'm not a Goodwin basher, but letting Carlton keep doing that was a mistake that nearly cost us the game.

On 8/29/2019 at 5:08 PM, Lucifer's Hero said:

An article by Mitch Robinson criticising the AA selectors by putting midfielders on the wings and not selecting any true 'wingmen'.not-selecting-genuine-wingmen

The real value of the article for me is It gives an amazing insight into the role of a wingmen and his importance in the 'modern' game. 

Interestingly, he says: "...put any full-time on-baller on the wing, you cut their stats in half". 

Reinventing Robinson as a wingman is a masterstroke by Fagan.

Thanks Lucifer's Hero, brilliant read!

4 minutes ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

 

They are so far ahead of themselves,  it is concerning.  

We need more senior leadership,  to let these young bucks know what real footy is all about.   Before we waste another generation of top recruits.

I don’t disagree with this - a little arrogance can be okay, but a few of our young guns perhaps need to pull their heads in a bit - Oliver and Brayshaw are two that come to mind: both great talents, but not yet the complete players they think they are.

13 minutes ago, 3183 Dee said:

I don’t disagree with this - a little arrogance can be okay, but a few of our young guns perhaps need to pull their heads in a bit - Oliver and Brayshaw are two that come to mind: both great talents, but not yet the complete players they think they are.

There is NO room for Arrogance in kids in their first seasons of the game.

These two do not even fill out the shadows of Ling, Bartel, Corey, or AblettJnr  at Geelong.   Let alone pretending to be something.

 

They have time in the future to earn the right to expose some arrogance.    But they have earned nothing yet,  apart from being big-noises,  in a small club battling to get better.

9 hours ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

There is NO room for Arrogance in kids in their first seasons of the game.

These two do not even fill out the shadows of Ling, Bartel, Corey, or AblettJnr  at Geelong.   Let alone pretending to be something.

 

They have time in the future to earn the right to expose some arrogance.    But they have earned nothing yet,  apart from being big-noises,  in a small club battling to get better.

Fair call

10 hours ago, Elegt said:

again got smashed on the outside. As I have said previously Angus Brayshaw is massively overrated and will not run two ways, clayton oliver is almost as bad

If this is your read on the game then I don't know if you're reading matches well.

We fell apart on Saturday when we started getting smashed on the inside. We were dominant in clearances and CPs in the first 1.5 quarters and with our obsession with a high forward half press, we turned that into repeat inside 50s and scores.

Then Carlton started winning the clearances and we fell apart.

IMO had almost nothing to do with getting smashed on the outside, aside from the poor defensive efforts of our forwards and midfielders in the second half.

the forward line is our big problem area. All efforts need to be directed to fixing the current mess that it is

15 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

If this is your read on the game then I don't know if you're reading matches well.

We fell apart on Saturday when we started getting smashed on the inside. We were dominant in clearances and CPs in the first 1.5 quarters and with our obsession with a high forward half press, we turned that into repeat inside 50s and scores.

Then Carlton started winning the clearances and we fell apart.

IMO had almost nothing to do with getting smashed on the outside, aside from the poor defensive efforts of our forwards and midfielders in the second half.

Interestingly i was just looking at the stats from the weekend and we actually won the clearances by 1, and contested footy 111 Carlton to Melbourne's 114. I was shocked when i saw that as i felt they really had the upper measure in both aspects.

 

43 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

We fell apart on Saturday when we started getting smashed on the inside. We were dominant in clearances and CPs in the first 1.5 quarters and with our obsession with a high forward half press, we turned that into repeat inside 50s and scores.

Then Carlton started winning the clearances and we fell apart.

IMO had almost nothing to do with getting smashed on the outside, aside from the poor defensive efforts of our forwards and midfielders in the second half.

Agree with this. As soon as Pittonet negated Gawn's impact, our central midfielders stopped getting an armchair ride and didn't do anything about it. The stats may have been even across the game, but we were smashed in the clearances and contested possessions from midway through the second quarter.

42 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

the forward line is our big problem area. All efforts need to be directed to fixing the current mess that it is

That's what happens when your tall forwards have no physical presence and can't take a contested mark to save their lives.

McDonald is great as a number three forward, not a number one. Jackson is three years off having an AFL body, and will probably never be a key forward anyway. We desperately need three talls up forward, particularly if one will be rucking for part of the time.

While Landgon and Tomlinson are both improvements on last year , they are both still just ordinary wingers. Tomlinson is too slow and Langdon fumbles too often. I reckon Vandenberg, at his best, is better than both.

On 8/29/2019 at 5:08 PM, Lucifer's Hero said:

An article by Mitch Robinson criticising the AA selectors by putting midfielders on the wings and not selecting any true 'wingmen'.not-selecting-genuine-wingmen

The real value of the article for me is It gives an amazing insight into the role of a wingmen and his importance in the 'modern' game. 

Interestingly, he says: "...put any full-time on-baller on the wing, you cut their stats in half". 

Reinventing Robinson as a wingman is a masterstroke by Fagan.

Well said. Thought we shoulda got this bloke when he left Carlton. Players such as Brayshaw get reputation built up on midfield minutes. Coaches would do well to view the midfield as wingers, ruckrovers, centreman and rovers. As a collective, midfield they escape proper scrutiny at times. Viney is a rover but plays like a ruck rover. No wonder we are unbalanced.

1 hour ago, chook fowler said:

the forward line is our big problem area. All efforts need to be directed to fixing the current mess that it is

Spot on chook.

No point winning the ball if it is just going to easily rebound out on a continuous basis.

 

13 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

I would bet Elegt is thinking of Carlton's long kicks down the wing.  When the Blues were up, it was that extra 30-50m gained with retained disposal that turned all the pressure back onto us and gave Carlton the breathing space to not feel flustered by our pressure.

I don't know how much that is a lack of the right personnel, but I expect it was very much a matter of inadequate run and, dare I say it, poor tactical responsiveness.

I'm not a Goodwin basher, but letting Carlton keep doing that was a mistake that nearly cost us the game.

This is a fair comment of what was happening but I think another factor was our totally ineffective half forward line. Give credit to Weitering, Docherty and Petrevski-Seton even Simpson every time we went forward we hit a brick wall and it rebounded. Be it turn over or contested mark they won convincingly. The small forward line didn't work and they showed the extra marking tall is essential. Hunt was the only effective forward. We need a lot more out of ANB, Melksham, McDonald and Fritch and Jones when up forward. You cannot expect Jackson to dominate or Picket to light things up in his second game. I sincerely hope Bennel stays on the park and Hannaan or AVB comes up because they add something extra

6 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

Well said. Thought we shoulda got this bloke when he left Carlton. Players such as Brayshaw get reputation built up on midfield minutes. Coaches would do well to view the midfield as wingers, ruckrovers, centreman and rovers. As a collective, midfield they escape proper scrutiny at times. Viney is a rover but plays like a ruck rover. No wonder we are unbalanced.

Yes,  IMV  we lacking the diversity of skills inside,  that your describing.

We need that classy centreman,  that nimble rover who can thread thru & around the legs of the bigger players, and the swift inside winner who can burst away like a young Todd Viney.

I'd like to see Salem in the pivot again,  to see if he can learn to cut it in there.?

Not sure if this is the thread for this but Tomlinson is a genuine concern. His run and carry is good, but blimey he can butcher the ball and/or just blindly kick. Hearing the commentary it didn't sound as though the players were using him correctly but can you blame them if the first thing he is going to do is just blindly kick the ball long because he can't think of anything else to do?

9 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

If this is your read on the game then I don't know if you're reading matches well.

We fell apart on Saturday when we started getting smashed on the inside. We were dominant in clearances and CPs in the first 1.5 quarters and with our obsession with a high forward half press, we turned that into repeat inside 50s and scores.

Then Carlton started winning the clearances and we fell apart.

IMO had almost nothing to do with getting smashed on the outside, aside from the poor defensive efforts of our forwards and midfielders in the second half.

yes good summary. I felt we lost that intensity to want the contested ball. they wanted it more. also we have less comitting to the contest which is good but we need time together to know where everyone should be. especially in defence and up  forward. it will take time for Bennel, Langdon Thomlinson to gel at stoppages.

Gee we are still having similar problems to the ones we had years ago. Our wingers at stages last night were jones and gus. Our new winger tomlinson can't even get a game. Still really lack runners with a inside mid dominated midfield 

11 minutes ago, Elegt said:

Gee we are still having similar problems to the ones we had years ago. Our wingers at stages last night were jones and gus. Our new winger tomlinson can't even get a game. Still really lack runners with a inside mid dominated midfield 

Because he simply isn't a winger, and it took a handful of games to expose that. 

Need to give the opportunity to Baker, Dunkley, even Jordon who is a inside/outside mid. 

5 minutes ago, Ham said:

Because he simply isn't a winger, and it took a handful of games to expose that. 

Need to give the opportunity to Baker, Dunkley, even Jordon who is a inside/outside mid. 

Baker and jordon definetly, but dunkley is slower than gus. Definetly not suited for the wing