Post Match Discussion - Round 1

[RalphiusMaximus 5,993]

22 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Do you really think the game plan is to just hoof it on top of a pack where the Cats defenders have a +1 or 2?

Actually, I think that's exactly the gameplan.  We saw it all of last year and it was never addressed.  The only time it was changed was when Hogan went down and they didn't have him there to crash packs.  Some abysmal idiot on our coaching panel has determined that instead of working to create space and free up a target to be passed to they will just hit the hot Spot and hope something happens. 

1 hour ago, waynewussell said:

Wagner critics should do themselves a favour and take another look at the 3rd quarter... one word, "inspirational".

His first half was horrible.  I bagged the hell out of him when he put a 20m pass out on the full.  Disgraceful skill error.  We sacked Grimes for that sort of crap.  I admit he improved drastically in the second half. 

[Redleg 37,909]

1 minute ago, rjay said:

 

Not well written it should be "No player shall enter or remain in the Protected Area"...

The penalty is not only for remaining but for entering the protected area, at least that is how the rule is supposed to be umpired.

Without this rule a tactic was to cut the angle/option of the player with the ball by effectively creating another man or men on the mark to kick over.

I think the intent of the rule is good but as with many AFL umpiring decisions the application is often found wanting...

Then if you are right, you don't need the word remain, as the offence is on entering.

[Redleg 37,909]

2 minutes ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

Actually, I think that's exactly the gameplan.  We saw it all of last year and it was never addressed.  The only time it was changed was when Hogan went down and they didn't have him there to crash packs.  Some abysmal idiot on our coaching panel has determined that instead of working to create space and free up a target to be passed to they will just hit the hot Spot and hope something happens. 

 

I just love the big bomb to Garlett on two 194 cm defenders each week.

[rjay 23,970]

34 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Then if you are right, you don't need the word remain, as the offence is on entering.

The offence is also to remain in the area if you were there in the first place.

You can't enter or remain in the protected area...

[binman 38,837]

4 hours ago, Brownie said:

yeah. I rewound it twice and all Lewis said to the ump clearly was "he tripped over his own feet" no profanity or abuse.

No idea what he may have said before that but the 50 was given after Lewis said those exact words to the ump.

 

You recorded it on vhs?

[Brownie 5,374]

6 hours ago, binman said:

You recorded it on vhs?

betamax gives you better definition to lip read

[Dr. Gonzo 22,540]

10 hours ago, waynewussell said:

Wagner critics should do themselves a favour and take another look at the 3rd quarter... one word, "inspirational".

I'll have a look when I watch the replay. 

[Skuit 9,312]

That Hunt torp at the end was a fair effort. 

[DeleteUser 638]

When the draw came out, I texted my fellow tragics and warned: high risk of us being 0-8.

Off to a great start meeting that End of Days prediction.

[nedariks 22]

Bugg would have been a better pick than Maynard for the role that they got him to play. 

[Demon Dynasty 15,781]

16 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

I wish Salem or Lewis had that last shot at goal.

Salem's a very ordinary player I'm afraid, but is highly skilled and has already kicked a match sealer (Ess in 2014)

Lewis is a brilliant set shot and the nerves wouldn't have gotten to him.

Who else would've you liked the ball in hand?

Anyone but Max (or Bugg if playing).  We do not play smart very often .  Handball it off to someone for a snap shot fcs.  Chances still slim under pressure and in congestion but better than set shot from Big M.

[DeeZee 6,805]

Bugg is also very smart near goal 

Edited March 26, 2018 by DeeZee

[Deemania since 56 6,206]

14 hours ago, Brownie said:

yeah. I rewound it twice and all Lewis said to the ump clearly was "he tripped over his own feet" no profanity or abuse.

No idea what he may have said before that but the 50 was given after Lewis said those exact words to the ump.

 

As noted earlier in re-capping the match, I was right behind Lewis when this 'trip' occurred. The umpire, deaf as blazes due to the crowd protests for the exaggerated penalty, must have thought Lewis swore at him. Hence, the severity of the penalty. In other words, umpire error once again. No MFC player would ever swear on the field, anyway. It is noted as a general observation - even amongst some Geelong fans nearby - that these two umpires did everything that they possibly could to keep Geelong in the game from the start of the first quarter. This 'evening-up' of the game reached its first climax across the second quarter and then, in highly questionable decisions in the third quarter from which they did not score. It happened again in the final quarter and was represented by not recognising 'holding' and 'dropping the ball' decisions against some very desperate and rule-abiding MFC entries and defensive play. It left one wondering how could a brash new-comer like Melbourne do that to our beloved team of champions, Geelong? 

[Deemania since 56 6,206]

11 hours ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

Actually, I think that's exactly the gameplan.  We saw it all of last year and it was never addressed.  The only time it was changed was when Hogan went down and they didn't have him there to crash packs.  Some abysmal idiot on our coaching panel has determined that instead of working to create space and free up a target to be passed to they will just hit the hot Spot and hope something happens. 

His first half was horrible.  I bagged the hell out of him when he put a 20m pass out on the full.  Disgraceful skill error.  We sacked Grimes for that sort of crap.  I admit he improved drastically in the second half. 

Absolutely stupid use of the ball to 'bomb' and it is costing us heaps of scoring certainties. Our forwards have legs and require passes to space.

As for Wagner, he was orienting himself to the game in the first half and through some excellent decision-making came out after half-time with resolve and determination. I thought his second half was 'inspirational' as well; in fact, I was amazed at his skill development, poise and placements. This guy is a driver for us that needs a few more games to bring it out across an entire game - through confidence. I have three of these types in mind to be almost unstoppable: Harmes, Hunt and now, Wagner. Mobile storm-troopers to feed the forwards.

[Deemania since 56 6,206]

25 minutes ago, DeeZee said:

Bugg is also very smart neat goal 

Bugg would have had a field-day against Geelong. The kind of rough 'n tumble that he thrives upon. He stop a few along the way, too.

[Deemania since 56 6,206]

14 hours ago, Cassiew said:

I was there. Although it was windy when Gawn shot, it was no excuse. To be fair we were even lucky to get that close. We did mainly because Geelong missed an absolute sitter. Poor umpiring decisions on both sides ruined and otherwise entertaining game.

It was a great game, ignoring the outcome, if possible. Umpiring was atrocioius, however.

[jnrmac 19,207]

31 minutes ago, Deemania since 56 said:

This 'evening-up' of the game reached its first climax across the second quarter and then, in highly questionable decisions in the third quarter from which they did not score. It happened again in the final quarter and was represented by not recognising 'holding' and 'dropping the ball' decisions against some very desperate and rule-abiding MFC entries and defensive play.

Don't know how many times it needs to be said that there is no such thing as 'dropping the ball'.

[jnrmac 19,207]

Just watched the replay and severtal things stood out.

Pederson dropped so many marks. He was often 1 on 2 but there numerous that he would normally clunk.

Geelong did everything they could to drag Lever back to the goal square in a one on one. This meant OMac was often up the ground against Hawkins (who was ineffective on the day despite bustling Oscar out of the way on numerous occasions). It was Lever's first game but he got shown up and it is what other teams will do unless we can keep our defensive shape. 

The ball was coming in quickly but our defensive efforts were generally putrid in the first half. CLearly better in the 2nd half.

 

[Demon Dynasty 15,781]

On 26 March 2018 at 9:20 AM, GawnWithTheWind said:

Didn't anyone else notice we just couldn't will ourselves to get infront?

Late in the third and the whole fourth quarter, we kicked confident goals to bring it back to under 6 points. However, any forward entry or shot on goal when it was to put us in front, we choked.

Oliver, Melksham, Trac and then Gawn all choked when we needed them to step up.

No idea how to improve that... maybe some more of Mrs Roos meditation classes.

I definitely agree this is all up top Gawn and a good point.  Everyone choked or rushed their shots.  No one stood up.  The players must stop thinking about a win (if they are) and just play their best.   Any set shot just go through the routine and shoot.  Don't think about scoreboard when shooting at any stage unless it's last 2/3 minutes and we need to ice the match and change up to a keeping off style, then obviously possession and time is key.

Might need some hypnotherapy here.  We have been a club that's been down for so long....the weight is heavy no matter what anyone says.  Not easy playing for the red & blue given the history.  Mental Demons are a factor for sure.  All the more reason to make sure we ice games well before we get towards the final siren.

 

Edited March 26, 2018 by Rusty Nails

[Demon Dynasty 15,781]

1 hour ago, nedariks said:

Bugg would have been a better pick than Maynard for the role that they got him to play. 

I would have to agree on this one ned.  He has a way of getting under people's skin also and would have done same to Ablett across 4 quarters with a few cameos up forward to mix it up when resting also.  While Maynard did OK on Ablett in the second half, the damage was done by half time with a lot of it involving link up play to/from Ablett.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

30 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Don't know how many times it needs to be said that there is no such thing as 'dropping the ball'.

Correct.

[DeeZee 6,805]

Goodys record at the G wouldn’t be too good.

So much for home ground advantage 

[sue 8,463]

31 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Don't know how many times it needs to be said that there is no such thing as 'dropping the ball'.

sure, but isn't it  just slang for illegal disposal.

[Deemania since 56 6,206]

34 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Don't know how many times it needs to be said that there is no such thing as 'dropping the ball'.

Nope, the discrimination between the two past rules is still too close to establish - perhaps deliberately - and one cannot rely on an umpire to get it done correctly, nor the vast numbers of fans who realise that if in possession of the ball with a delay holding onto the ball once tackled/legally held, and then illegally releasing the ball without kick or handpass it hits the ground WTF does an umpire spread his arms, low down as if it were a dropped ball, not a throw and for holding the man, why does the umpire grab his shirt at the hips? Dropping the ball is now ' illegal disposal' and the semantics no longer matter to the purist. Any other interpretation gives a distinct advantage to that rotten sod who is in possession of the ball and who cannot legally release the ball so he drops it like a hot-cake and so often gets out of gaol - particularly if he plays for Essendrug, Carlscum, the Filth or in this case, the Catty Puts. Stating the obvious, there is no 'dropping the ball' so depending on how much the umpire wishes a particular side to 'win or be evened up' it is either recognised or it is not recognised; that is the gambol that the player in possession exploits against legal disposal protocols. 

[Demon Dynasty 15,781]

On 26 March 2018 at 8:46 AM, Wiseblood said:

I think we're missing the point with some of the analysis.  I know it's a very tough loss to take, but we really only have a few things to work on.

I've seen some people potting Goodwin for his motivational skills or the way he speaks at the pressers.  This means little and is wrong in many aspects.  If he couldn't motivate us, then how did we come out and kick 6 first quarter goals?  How were we able to wrest back control of the game when it looked like it was out of our hands at half time?  The bloke knows what he's doing.

We also didn't lose this one at the selection table.  I'm not sure how much of a difference Tyson or Brayshaw would have made, but we didn't struggle in terms of getting the ball forward, we didn't struggle for clearances and we did well in terms of contested possessions.  Would Tyson and Brayshaw have made our uncontested possessions any better, or improved our two way running?  Maybe, maybe not.

The real issue for us is the brain fades we have in certain quarters where we let teams get the better of us.  If you were to take that out of yesterday's game, and we break even, then we win this game of football.  That's simple fact.  The problem we face is how we fix that, what Plan B we have (that Geelong had when we got on top) and how our leaders communicate with each other to implement it during a game.

We can hang with the big boys, we have no problem hitting the scoreboard (we had 29 scoring shots) and we play a brand of football that stands up in big games.  We just need to work our way around a problem we shouldn't still have in terms of fade outs in quarters where we expose our back line and allow teams too many easy goals.

Fix that and we're on our way.

WB our fade outs aren't an accident.  They are a result of a good opponent taking advantage of our weaknesses and capitalising.

Although we need to be careful reading too much from one match, they didn't change from last year on Sunday.  The main ones being......

?? We lack consistent / decent forward 50 pressure on our opponents when we get it inside 50 and once our opponents get hold of the ball inside there. Garlett (last year) and Bugg / ANB to a lessor degree about the only real threat to opponents here.

Hope they can bring this again (if playing) but we need to find at least one more mosquito option to bring this IMO, especially if Bugg isn't a regular.

?? As has been repeated in here So many times, most of the time our forwards play a dumb brand with too many leaping at the contest,  even Garlett much of the time!!?  No one at the drop of the ball front and square.  At one stage in the last quarter I saw a long bomb to our 50 (approx) and the Cats had someone front and square who ran it out and away quickly. Our guys in the vicinity hit the pack....no one to be seen when ball hit the deck!  Dumb dumb dumb!  Line coaches must be licking their chops when showing this to their defensive players during the week.  Also happens with kicks down the line too often also.

This should have changed from last year.   Surely Garlett needs to stay down and get front and square or attempt to read ball off pack!?  Again we need that additional mosquito to add another option here, take the heat off Jeffy and make their match ups up forward even trickier.

Fix the above or continue to see many missed opportunities go a begging with opponents picking up the crumbs and running it out with relative ease.

?? The constant bombing to HF and if we get it close enough the hot spot at the top of the square.  Same old same old from last year.  Have we learned nothing?  One game doesn't make a swallow but if we can all see this along with the opposition who set up for it, why can't the FD / Coaching panel?  What were we training over the whole summer??  I'm not saying it should never go there, but the balance just looks off and has been for too long now.

I haven't watched the replay but I would love to see the break down of how many long bombs went inside 50 versus lowering of the eye and attempting to hit a target or at least trying to.

Fix it or continue to see opponents read us like a book and just get numbers plus a few outliers to the drop at the hot spot.  Too easy folks.

?? ZERO tackles between Melk, Piggy & Oscar (Oscar did his job however and probably wasn't instructed to zone off and tackle/spoil) didn't help either.  Have the two imports not been trained to pressure defensively in their former roles and just can't be fixed in this area?  Surely not!?

The above issues need Fixing.  It might mean a change or injection of personnel and/or the skills/method/organisation of forward entries /structure ....or both.

If we don't fix the forward entry issue especially (including crumbing options, bombing to hot spot/HF far to often, forward 50 pressure and most flying for the long bomb) I fear we will miss finals (again).

The next 3 to 4 matches are going to be very telling for this club and its coaching panel.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Rusty Nails