Nathan Jones Media Conference

[loges 6,085]

2 hours ago, franga said:

Rumor gathering that Jonesy calling it quits.   Please no

Why would he?

[beelzebub 22,225]

3 hours ago, Purple77 said:

"Jones: The blame falls on our shoulders"

 

You're [censored] right it does.

well...from the cheap seats...I dont think thats quite altogether right.

It's a collective thing. There are issues in how the team plays per the game plan i.e adherence or otherwise. Then there's the plan itself and relevance to a situation. RPFC mentioned this especially in context of Manuka. We plainly got it wrong and  that came from above. The players became cannon fodder by following directions.  Then there's the players' effort collectively and individually. Barney addresses this also in a post Too  right there's blame but there's many to blame for mine.

We arent where we ought to be but its not but for a few simple items. Thee's a lot to do .

[praha 10,283]

48 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Even worse, if it was given the all clear from P.J. mate, you don't go early when the season is on the line. 

You plan...

I'm not sure the CEO oversees marketing department decisions on occasions like this. There would be a marketing head who would educate the board on long term goals and plans, but ultimately on-the-fly decisions would be approved by that person. Granted the piece itself never explicitly mentions finals as a surety but it was bizarre given the timing. The CEO would be no more influential on marketing choices like that email as he would be on game day decisions, which is essentially zero involvement. It's not PJ's role to approve marketing campaigns or EDMs. If he looked over all of that it would be pointless having a head of marketing. The approval process would end before PJ, and the marketing head would report results to PJ. And anyway, PJ's pregame interview on SEN suggested that if he was involved he would never improve it, because his tone was very much "wait and see". He had to calm down talk of finals multiple times. There's nothing to suggest he would have approved that material. But I wouldn't want to be the one reporting to him on the effectiveness of the campaign, because it's brand damaging and reflects a culture of complacency, which, in a professional environment, mirrors ameuturism. 

[Lucifers Hero 37,090]

19 minutes ago, hemingway said:

Would have preferred the coach or at least the coach alongside Jonesy. The buck stops with the coach and given the performance and the season outcome it would have been sensible and fair to have Goodwin alongside Jones. To leave it all to Jones is rough. 

Couldn't agree more, Earnest.

Something I appreciated about Roos was that he always took the heat.  He would say we (ie coaches) brought x back too early from injury, we made mistakes at the selection table, we need to revisit our defence/attack etc.  He never left the players out on a limb.  

Not once this year have I heard Goodwin saysomething similar.  His narrative has been we (ie players) didn't execute our game plan, we didn't play the way we would like, we didn't have numbers around the ball, we were beaten around the contest etc etc. 

That may be true but it sounds like it has nothing to do with the coaches!  Hello, it is the coaches job to ensure players are in the right mind; it is their job to understand how weather conditions affect the standard game plan on different ovals etc.

It would seriously worry me if the coach(es) can't see their own deficiencies when supporters can.

Unfortunately, the email the club sent today has not alleviated my concern.  It said:  With regard to the Collingwood game on Saturday, the effort in the first quarter clearly wasn’t there. Simon Goodwin has said throughout the year that we must respect the competition and that didn’t happen with our effort or intensity. 

That makes me a bit cross to put it all on the players.  As you say, Goodwin should have been with Jones.  It would have acknowledged the season performance and Saturday were a joint responsibility and joint failing.

Hate to say it but leaving Jones out there on his own had Neeld overtones about it.  I hope Goodwin is able to look at himself and see his own deficiencies or we are in strife.  He needs to lift his game and it wouldn't hurt for him to eat a bit of humble pie sometimes.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Lucifer's Hero

[praha 10,283]

1 minute ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Couldn't agree more, Earnest.

Something I appreciated about Roos was that he always took the heat.  He would say we (ie coaches) brought x back too early from injury, we made mistakes at the selection table, we need to revisit our defence/attack etc.  He never blamed the players.   

Not once this year have I heard Goodwin say anything something similar.  His narrative has been we (ie players) didn't execute our game plan, we didn't play the way we would like, we didn't have numbers around the ball, we were beaten around the contest etc etc. 

That may be true but it sounds like it is the players fault and nothing to do with the coaches!  Hello, it is the coaches job to ensure players are in the right mind; it is their job to understand how weather conditions affect the standard game plan on different ovals etc.

It would seriously worry me if the coach(es) can't see their own deficiencies when supporters can.

Unfortunately, the email the club sent today has not alleviated my concern.  It said:  With regard to the Collingwood game on Saturday, the effort in the first quarter clearly wasn’t there. Simon Goodwin has said throughout the year that we must respect the competition and that didn’t happen with our effort or intensity. 

That makes me a bit cross to put it all on the players.  Goodwin should have been with Jones.  It would have acknowledged the season performance and Saturday were a joint responsibility and joint failing.

Hate to say it but leaving Jones out there on his own had Neeld overtones about it.  I hope Goodwin is able to look at himself and see his own deficiencies or we are in strife.

Roos started with a similar narrative though and had to grow into the behaviour of bundling his performance with the players. In 2014 Roos often separated himself from the playing group. It seems there are similar cultural issues that persist because we now have a second coach who is raising issue with players not followong directives or playing as the team requires. The common theme is Jones in a leadership capacity and I'm just worried that his behavioural characteristics adversal affect culture and playing behaviours. We've all worked in environments with bad team leaders and bosses. They might be awesome at their job but in a position of power and amplification, it can hurt the group below them. 

I'm just super concerned about the consistent theme between Roos' early years and now Goodwin's first year. That theme is one of the playing group and individuals not doing what is required by the plan and directives. We should be beyond first quarters like that.

[poita 3,615]

Feel so sorry for Nathan Jones. Yes, he was poor on the weekend, but so were most of his mates.

I have no doubt that Nathan will be shattered by the performance and the outcome. I'm not sure that I could say the same about some of the others. 

Totally agree with the above posts regarding Goodwin's absence. He has had a very poor past two months, and I hope he has someone mentoring and reviewing his performance. 

[Lucifers Hero 37,090]

1 minute ago, poita said:

Feel so sorry for Nathan Jones. Yes, he was poor on the weekend, but so were most of his mates.

I have no doubt that Nathan will be shattered by the performance and the outcome. I'm not sure that I could say the same about some of the others. 

Totally agree with the above posts regarding Goodwin's absence. He has had a very poor past two months, and I hope he has someone mentoring and reviewing his performance. 

That is a good point.  One of the reasons the Tigers have done so well is that Hardwick now reports to Neil Balme (as does Mahoney's equivalent).  Balme actively challenges the coaches, team selection, game reviews, the game plan, tactics, trades etc.  Geelong have Hocking and Hawthorn had Fagan (not sure who does it now) both of whom were actively involved in football and not mere administrators.

I wonder who does that job at mfc.  It isn't Mahoney and it isn't McCartney as he reports to Goodwin.  At one stage Roos was talked about as having the Balme role but the idea wasn't revisited when Roos left.

I feel Goodwin still needs direction and guidance.  Hope PJ is paying attention.

Maybe its time to have another look.

[KLV 1,642]

I just watched the press conference. My angst is alleviated somewhat, jones is a class act, there is no doubting his sincerity and investment. 

The email from the club is good in its honesty re saturday's effort, but begs the question, WHY were the intensity and effort not there? 

Jones also admitted the criticism of their first quarter effort was 100% warranted, and here I believe he wants to separate the players from the playing group, and for the players to take the blame alone. 

The coaches did not encourage the poor effort at the start, it was the playing group that did not execute  the coaches message.

my question is what to do? Is it the coaches failing for not having the playing group in the correct mindset? Or are the on field leaders to blame? 

ive gone from despising wce overnight, to admiring them. Once we lost they had an opportunity and they took it with determination and guts. Well done!

we seem to be the only club that can't find motivation when we need it. It should be instinctive at this level. I don't get it.

[Lucifers Hero 37,090]

25 minutes ago, praha said:

Roos started with a similar narrative though and had to grow into the behaviour of bundling his performance with the players. In 2014 Roos often separated himself from the playing group. It seems there are similar cultural issues that persist because we now have a second coach who is raising issue with players not followong directives or playing as the team requires. The common theme is Jones in a leadership capacity and I'm just worried that his behavioural characteristics adversal affect culture and playing behaviours. We've all worked in environments with bad team leaders and bosses. They might be awesome at their job but in a position of power and amplification, it can hurt the group below them. 

I'm just super concerned about the consistent theme between Roos' early years and now Goodwin's first year. That theme is one of the playing group and individuals not doing what is required by the plan and directives. We should be beyond first quarters like that.

As I recall, Roos struggled with 'us' and 'them/they'.  'Them/they' was used when referring to the Club and yes, it took him a while to use 'us' and mean it.  But I don't recall him every transferring responsibility to players after a poor performance. 

Goodwin has consistently used 'we' and 'us' in his narrative but his commentary around that has been what the players have done poorly on the field.  I don't recall it referring to the coaches/coaching activities.  Roos took responsibility for on field failings, Goodwin doesn't. 

Not standing shoulder to shoulder with Jones is poor.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Lucifer's Hero

[beelzebub 22,225]

17 minutes ago, hemingway said:

Would have preferred the coach or at least the coach alongside Jonesy. The buck stops with the coach and given the performance and the season outcome it would have been sensible and fair to have Goodwin alongside Jones. To leave it all to Jones is rough. 

I didnt see this before  and I heartily concur. Pizzweak at MFC/Goodwin !!

I suggested before it's hardly just one area of fault. It's the players on the day as to the play but in many respects they , as we are told over  and over again , are ROLE players. They are given instructions and adjudicated accordingly. So what if those instruction are plainly faulty, or incompatible to the days events?  This is EXACTLY what I think is the occurrence  in many instances.

Im not mad we didnt make it. I think actually they ended up exactly where I thought they might...9th.  Its only as the year progressed that indicators suggested we ought to proceed to finals and we obviously didnt

I think a great deal of this blame is the FD. We've had players obviously return to battle before they ought to.  Is this solely necessity ? We always told they would errr on side of caution yet we could all see any number of players playing below their par and restricted . Thats the FD.  Then we have game plans and structures and finer teachings. The backline works like Jake the peg and the midfield often resembles a buslane. Do we actually have a plan for the forward line ? im not too sure.

Roos was adept at cultural issues. He is a man of holistic teachings and no doubt help implement change. He also chose Goodwin.. Goodwin is no fool but he's no coaching god at present and far from it. He who refuses to learn from the past etc etc..  and we we're often doomed on days going in with directions to build a "THIS' when is was obvious a "THAT" kinda day. Whilst Simon seems capable of change you have to ask why the players didnt automatically follow the instructions as Simon Says !!  He seems to be imposing a one size fits all regimen to the group which whiole on the surface should work it obviosuly wasnt his mentors way who understood  'individuals" only too well. Ironically Roos was rubbish as a day coach and Simon seems a keen student. But he isnt there yet  and this shows and in this regard along with the rest of the FD dept they should combine with the players and say . yes we were very poor at times and its the CLUB and as the person who stands where the buck stops I agree 200% with Ernest that the Coach should have stood shoulder to shoulder with his Captain.

Irrespective of whether Jack was playing on the weekend or not..He ought to have been there too.

Culturally theres still much to get right at the MFC...here we see examples  of things done wrong.

[beelzebub 22,225]

Did Roos leave too early ?

as in the club...Its been mention Simon could use mentoring...(who couldnt ) 

PR as a backroom whisperer would have been gold .

Edited August 28, 2017 by beelzebub

[Big Demon 197]

2 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

I didnt see this before  and I heartily concur. Pizzweak at MFC/Goodwin !!

I suggested before it's hardly just one area of fault. It's the players on the day as to the play but in many respects they , as we are told over  and over again , are ROLE players. They are given instructions and adjudicated accordingly. So what if those instruction are plainly faulty, or incompatible to the days events?  This is EXACTLY what I think is the occurrence  in many instances.

Im not mad we didnt make it. I think actually they ended up exactly where I thought they might...9th.  Its only as the year progressed that indicators suggested we ought to proceed to finals and we obviously didnt

I think a great deal of this blame is the FD. We've had players obviously return to battle before they ought to.  Is this solely necessity ? We always told they would errr on side of caution yet we could all see any number of players playing below their par and restricted . Thats the FD.  Then we have game plans and structures and finer teachings. The backline works like Jake the peg and the midfield often resembles a buslane. Do we actually have a plan for the forward line ? im not too sure.

Roos was adept at cultural issues. He is a man of holistic teachings and no doubt help implement change. He also chose Goodwin.. Goodwin is no fool but he's no coaching god at present and far from it. He who refuses to learn from the past etc etc..  and we we're often doomed on days going in with directions to build a "THIS' when is was obvious a "THAT" kinda day. Whilst Simon seems capable of change you have to ask why the players didnt automatically follow the instructions as Simon Says !!  He seems to be imposing a one size fits all regimen to the group which whiole on the surface should work it obviosuly wasnt his mentors way who understood  'individuals" only too well. Ironically Roos was rubbish as a day coach and Simon seems a keen student. But he isnt there yet  and this shows and in this regard along with the rest of the FD dept they should combine with the players and say . yes we were very poor at times and its the CLUB and as the person who stands where the buck stops I agree 200% with Ernest that the Coach should have stood shoulder to shoulder with his Captain.

Irrespective of whether Jack was playing on the weekend or not..He ought to have been there too.

Culturally theres still much to get right at the MFC...here we see examples  of things done wrong.

Yup, I am as big a Viney fan as there is but can't argue with that statement. Jack is the strongest on field leader at the club but we need him to take over that mantle off the field as well.

[Jibroni 4,117]

Really surprised Goodwin didnt take the lead on this one as he does'nt strike me as someone who would walk away from a situation like this. The end result is a collective failure which Jonesy should not take the heat for.

 

[beelzebub 22,225]

3 minutes ago, Jibroni said:

Really surprised Goodwin didnt take the lead on this one as he does'nt strike me as someone who would walk away from a situation like this. The end result is a collective failure which Jonesy should not take the heat for.

 

It's poor isn't it.

[Lucifers Hero 37,090]

It seems our President is in a state of shock:  http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/melbournes-finals-miss-burns-in-the-players-guts-nathan-jones-20170828-gy5rno.html

"A shattered Bartlett said it was too soon to take a publicly analyse what had gone wrong for the Demons following Saturday's upset loss..."

There is also a hint that the whole club got ahead of itself:  "It shouldn't be the end it should be the beginning..."

Let this be a lesson to all concern - something about counting chickens...

Hope he is bashing PJ's door down to get some answers from Goodwin and find out how the coach is going to fix things.  I don't want that to be public but would be very disappointed if someone doesn't bring Goodwin to account.

[Salems Lot 2,377]

So much completely understandable anger on the site; my feeling is one of total emptiness now having had a "feeling" all last week that this was coming our way.  MFCSS to the max.

Once the dust settles we will start to see that this year has not been a total write off and hopefully we can reflect on some improvement: CP, Clarrie, Jayden and OMc.  The recruiting of Pig, and the 3 AA players.  Also the brutal middle of the season where we were competitive whilst putting a VFL team out on the field due to critical injuries.  The talk of who was going to skipper the team when both were out through injury; but right now I can't get past Hawthorn, Freo, Nth, Nth and finally the Filth.

Such sadness last night as I cradled my sobbing 13 year old son who yet again fronted up for a season of unfulfilled disappointment.  

[Deecisive 1,652]

Hot Pies and cold demons seasons over. time to concentrate on fixing what needs fixing. That includes who we draft, who we trade and who we get rid of.

Players desperately need to improve their skills. Think up more appropriate training programs i.e. every time our players are meant to run they should do so at full pace bouncing a ball, or handpassing back and forth at tilt and then trying to do an accurate kick or handpass at the end. Practice spreading out when we go forward so we are not in one big clump. More practice tackling and learning to do it right, practice breaking tackles, practice kicking instead of handballs all the time, practice chasing i.e. give a player the ball and get him to run 30m with somone on his hammer chasing him. 

[beelzebub 22,225]

16 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

It seems our President is in a state of shock:  http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/melbournes-finals-miss-burns-in-the-players-guts-nathan-jones-20170828-gy5rno.html

"A shattered Bartlett said it was too soon to take a publicly analyse what had gone wrong for the Demons following Saturday's upset loss..."

There is also a hint that the whole club got ahead of itself:  "It shouldn't be the end it should be the beginning..."

Let this be a lesson to all concern - something about counting chickens...

Hope he is bashing PJ's door down to get some answers from Goodwin and find out how the coach is going to fix things.  I don't want that to be public but would be very disappointed if someone doesn't bring Goodwin to account.

my god..this Bartlett waffles

fmd...is he clueless 

[Dr. Gonzo 22,482]

3 hours ago, wheaters31 said:

A lot of people disappointed with the clubs email about finals.

However, it said in the email, that priority period tickets were available to members at 9am-1pm on Tuesday 29th, leaving only Monday for the email to be sent and viewed by supporters if we made finals. I think as a supporter group we would be a lot more disappointed if we didn't receive this email with a few days notice, and miss out on tickets to finals. That's how I feel about it anyway.

Mate some people just want to find something to whinge about, have a look at most posts on this thread for reference

[kurtneverdied 202]

10 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

my god..this Bartlett waffles

fmd...is he clueless 

Seriously!? Wonder why you are still even here.

[praha 10,283]

56 minutes ago, Jibroni said:

Really surprised Goodwin didnt take the lead on this one as he does'nt strike me as someone who would walk away from a situation like this. The end result is a collective failure which Jonesy should not take the heat for.

 

Goodwin had his press conference after the game. He faced the media immediately after the loss. What could he have said during the press conference today that he didn't say on Saturday?

[Jibroni 4,117]

1 minute ago, praha said:

Goodwin had his press conference after the game. He faced the media immediately after the loss. What could he have said during the press conference today that he didn't say on Saturday?

I dont recall him talking about the season being a failure as he was awaiting the outcome of the West Coke game before giving a full explanation.

[old dee 22,922]

3 minutes ago, praha said:

Goodwin had his press conference after the game. He faced the media immediately after the loss. What could he have said during the press conference today that he didn't say on Saturday?

It is now three days later and not a peep from the Coach, CEO or the Chief of the FD since 6.00 PM Saturday.

just plain ordinary.

[beelzebub 22,225]

8 minutes ago, kurtneverdied said:

Seriously!? Wonder why you are still even here.

Well batted sir.

Thanks Glenn

[John Crow Batty 8,256]

8 minutes ago, praha said:

Goodwin had his press conference after the game. He faced the media immediately after the loss. What could he have said during the press conference today that he didn't say on Saturday?

 But we were still alive in the finals then and now not. There is plenty to say.